The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[Cowbox]

Yes'm.

*salute*

*marches off*

 

[Shadic]

3) A lot of freezes have been reported with 3.3, however, our next beta (4.0) will be released "soon" and has been perfectly stable. Check the IRC chat room for more information on that..

Except for me. Panzer knows that I manage to pull off a crash every other match. Still trying to figure that one out.

 

[Eaode]

ROB's side B is an extremely fun new toy that's not particularly useful. I say keep it for the lulz.

Also:

But if you really REALLY have to push for a buff to sing. Do NOT let it combo into rest as that is a ridiculous combo that should NOT exist.

LOL at this. Sing has ALWAYS combo'd into rest xD

 

[shanus]

Shortline begs to differ, he finds it INCREDIBLY useful as an edgeguard.

 

[GHNeko]

LOL at this. Sing has ALWAYS combo'd into rest xD

>_>

it wasnt always guaranteed. The buff he wants would make it work 100% of the time.

 

[CloneHat]

>_>

it wasnt always guaranteed. The buff he wants would make it work 100% of the time.

Jigglypuff was good without the rest buff, and now she's DOUBLE good!

Sing doesn't need to be good!

 

[SketchHurricane]

But that would happen no matter what...I mean, look at vBrawl...here, however, we're trying to make it a fantastic game. I'm not saying that you should use every move in your moveset, I'm saying that in Brawl+, we can dictate depth, so let's maximize it.

The Soul Calibur example pretty much summed up my point. The problem with your counter was that you dumbed it down to a level that obviously changed the focus. Of course if there is one move in the game, then adding a second move will double the depth. But there is a curve there. In a game like SC, where the move count is 50+, adding another move will do close to nothing since the options are fairly exhausted at that point.

A move limit is what makes a character unique against the rest of the cast. So what if character X has no fast ground option? If his ground option sucks because it's slow, that's what we call character design. If he doesn't have enough other options to make up for it, that's what we call bad character design, and that's when you buff.

I'll stress again the fact that Smash is a game that has the same number of moves for every character. When designing a game like that, it's easy to come to a point where you've fleshed out some great moves for a character and realized they were suddenly complete. Yet in Smash, there are those slots that simply have to be filled. So what do you do? You put a less useful move in there to prevent an imbalance. Sure, you could throw in a useful move, but then you would have to tone down every other move in the arsenal until the balance was once again met. There is no need to do that when you already have an interesting character that doesn't need the extra options.

I'm not saying the game is perfectly balanced at this point, but you get the gist in terms of characters that play just fine they way they are.

 

[Greenpoe]

The Soul Calibur example pretty much summed up my point. The problem with your counter was that you dumbed it down to a level that obviously changed the focus. Of course if there is one move in the game, then adding a second move will double the depth. But there is a curve there. In a game like SC, where the move count is 50+, adding another move will do close to nothing since the options are fairly exhausted at that point.

A move limit is what makes a character unique against the rest of the cast. So what if character X has no fast ground option? If his ground option sucks because it's slow, that's what we call character design. If he doesn't have enough other options to make up for it, that's what we call bad character design, and that's when you buff.

I'll stress again the fact that Smash is a game that has the same number of moves for every character. When designing a game like that, it's easy to come to a point where you've fleshed out some great moves for a character and realized they were suddenly complete. Yet in Smash, there are those slots that simply have to be filled. So what do you do? You put a less useful move in there to prevent an imbalance. Sure, you could throw in a useful move, but then you would have to tone down every other move in the arsenal until the balance was once again met. There is no need to do that when you already have an interesting character that doesn't need the extra options.

I'm not saying the game is perfectly balanced at this point, but you get the gist in terms of characters that play just fine they way they are.

I understand your point. I'm not going to argue because what you said makes sense, however, the biggest reason not to change a character has been "This character is fine. Leave 'em alone." This is what I dislike, because of each characters unique flavor. Look at Bowser. We could've said he's "fine" a long time ago, but he kept getting more and more buffs. Now? He's perfect! I'd rather not have each character's flavor to be "fine", it should be perfect, like Bowser's is in the 3/24 4.0 Beta codeset.

 

[Shadic]

But I think Jigglypuff is basically perfect right now. Sleep has its uses.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll stress again the fact that Smash is a game that has the same number of moves for every character.

Glide Attacks.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Glide Attacks.

Pit, MK, Char...3 characters with 1 extra move.

And Bowser was the very opposite of fine, Poe, which is why he got all the buffs. When a character needs buffs, they'll get em. When they don't, they wont. Some are obvious to see, others may take time.

 

[cobaltblue]

I understand your point. I'm not going to argue because what you said makes sense, however, the biggest reason not to change a character has been "This character is fine. Leave 'em alone." This is what I dislike, because of each characters unique flavor. Look at Bowser. We could've said he's "fine" a long time ago, but he kept getting more and more buffs. Now? He's perfect! I'd rather not have each character's flavor to be "fine", it should be perfect, like Bowser's is in the 3/24 4.0 Beta codeset.

Bowser kept getting tweaks and updates because he was a free win without them and thus did not provide an enjoyable gaming experiance. Even with the current tweaks it still takes a lot of skill to win against the majority of the cast as him and the number of characters he can counter/hard counter is low compared to someone like marth.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I understand your point. I'm not going to argue because what you said makes sense, however, the biggest reason not to change a character has been "This character is fine. Leave 'em alone." This is what I dislike, because of each characters unique flavor. Look at Bowser. We could've said he's "fine" a long time ago, but he kept getting more and more buffs. Now? He's perfect! I'd rather not have each character's flavor to be "fine", it should be perfect, like Bowser's is in the 3/24 4.0 Beta codeset.

You've got a very low standard for "fine" and "perfect."

To me "fine," means tournament viable. As in, you can take that character to a tournament knowing that you can win the tournament with that character (though you may need a secondary for a few matchups).

"Perfect" would be the same thing, only you don't need the secondary because your character can handle every matchup without having a severe disadvantage (Marth).

Well, those are my definitions with relation to balance of course.

 

[Cowbox]

I just thought of something.

Would it be possible to code gliding to it's own button (Like R or something people don't often use.)? I find it very unintuitive to hold the jump button.

 

[CyberGlitch]

Cyberglitch, quick question.

Do you think G&W needs any changes to his moves, be they nerfs or buffs?

I ask this because I know there was discussion about nerfing him further some time ago. Now that e can edit the lag of aerials individually, and the knockback of moves, what would you change?

The current adjustment to G&W, only 25% ALR, was mostly put into place to prevent key spam. With this adjustment his neutral, back, and down air attacks all seem just right.

Personally I'd like to see an adjustment to his box move (forward air). It's almost always a better choice to use his back air. Reducing it back to 50% lag would be enough.

Does G&W need further nerfs? Others would suggest that his smash moves are too spamable/powerful. While his forward smash is certainly spamable, I don't think it's overpowered, that's how the move was in Melee, and it can be punished without too much trouble. If anything needs nerfed, it's his down smash. The move comes out very quickly, sweetspots to kill vertically at pretty low percents and the nonsweetspotted hit knocks at a very horizonal trajectory. The effectiveness of the sweetspot has naturally been nerfed by the gravity adjustments to most characters. The move's knockback shouldn't be reduced, but it should have added ending lag.

 

[GHNeko]

I just thought of something.

Would it be possible to code gliding to it's own button (Like R or something people don't often use.)? I find it very unintuitive to hold the jump button.

It's even worse for people who use the analog to jump. ._.

 

[DaiAndOh]

Sometimes I have a problem with the 4.0 beta. Sometimes, all but the bottom part of the left side of the characters are unselectable, as in it does not let one pick them despite them being displayed. Once, I went back and reselected Brawl, and it worked, the other time I needed to restart the Wii. Anyone else have this problem?

 

[GHNeko]

Sometimes I have a problem with the 4.0 beta. Sometimes, all but the bottom part of the left side of the characters are unselectable, as in it does not let one pick them despite them being displayed. Once, I went back and reselected Brawl, and it worked, the other time I needed to restart the Wii. Anyone else have this problem?

It's a known problem. Shanus had it last night. We're trying to fix it.

 

[Cowbox]

It's even worse for people who use the analog to jump. ._.

I... I don't want to even think about that. That must be god-awful.

While I'm on a roll of thinking of stupid ideas, how about taking out that stupid "HOLD A TO RAPID ATTACK!!!"? I'm sick of just trying to get in a couple quick jabs with Falcon and am instantly flung into rapid punches.

 

[goodoldganon]

I have never had a problem like that, and I play on both 10 and 2 buffer. Either way a code has been made.

Auto-Jab Fix [spunit262, Phantom Wings]
C2784774 00000004
7C7B1B78 809C007C
80840034 2C040024
40A20008 547B003C
60000000 00000000

 

[kupo15]

I... I don't want to even think about that. That must be god-awful.

While I'm on a roll of thinking of stupid ideas, how about taking out that stupid "HOLD A TO RAPID ATTACK!!!"? I'm sick of just trying to get in a couple quick jabs with Falcon and am instantly flung into rapid punches.

Its pretty ********. A code solves the problem a little bit but you can still hold a during the rapid part instead of everything being mashable. Its in my OP

 

[CountKaiser]

The current adjustment to G&W, only 25% ALR, was mostly put into place to prevent key spam. With this adjustment his neutral, back, and down air attacks all seem just right.

Personally I'd like to see an adjustment to his box move (forward air). It's almost always a better choice to use his back air. Reducing it back to 50% lag would be enough.

Does G&W need further nerfs? Others would suggest that his smash moves are too spamable/powerful. While his forward smash is certainly spamable, I don't think it's overpowered, that's how the move was in Melee, and it can be punished without too much trouble. If anything needs nerfed, it's his down smash. The move comes out very quickly, sweetspots to kill vertically at pretty low percents and the nonsweetspotted hit knocks at a very horizonal trajectory. The effectiveness of the sweetspot has naturally been nerfed by the gravity adjustments to most characters. The move's knockback shouldn't be reduced, but it should have added ending lag.

I thought it was put into place to avoid key and case spam. Either way, the case has far too much lag for my liking. If it had as much lag as the key, or maybe a frame more, it'd be awesome.

Frankly, the only OP part of GW is his dsmash. It's spammable, has good range, and is pretty powerful. Removing the spammable part of it would make it balanced.

Another tweak that I probably won't get, but would like to see, is less base KB on his uthrow, so that he can follow-up with nair at reasonable percents, or perhaps a fair. I think it wouldn't be too bad, since tech roll speed and an easier teching window makes his dthrow nigh useless, unless they don't tech.

 

[Greenpoe]

You've got a very low standard for "fine" and "perfect."

To me "fine," means tournament viable. As in, you can take that character to a tournament knowing that you can win the tournament with that character (though you may need a secondary for a few matchups).

"Perfect" would be the same thing, only you don't need the secondary because your character can handle every matchup without having a severe disadvantage (Marth).

Well, those are my definitions with relation to balance of course.

You don't understand. My previous post described the perfect feel of a character. It doesn't matter if Bowser has 50-50 matchups with the whole cast if Bowser mains think he's boring to use, just like it doesn't matter if he was incredibly fun to use but had 0-100 matchups (Granted, this is a slightly hyperbolic use of the term "doesn't matter", as there will always be outliers). Ideally, the entire cast would have a perfect moveset and 50-50 matchups with all the cast. Unrealistic goal? Maybe, but the closer, the better.

 

[Cowbox]

Oh. I guess I'm just too awesome (read: ********) to notice such a code existed.

Thanks.

 

[SketchHurricane]

I just thought of something.

Would it be possible to code gliding to it's own button (Like R or something people don't often use.)? I find it very unintuitive to hold the jump button.

I'd like that. I also had an idea back in the day to make gliding possible on the first jump. That would probably make some broken approaches though.

Ideally, the entire cast would have a perfect moveset and 50-50 matchups with all the cast. Unrealistic goal? Maybe, but the closer, the better.

The perfect moveset is highly subjective, especially since your equating perfect to fun. Fun is great but must take the back seat to effect when talking about character changes.

Take the above gliding ideas for example. Allowing the gliders to glide not only immediately from a button press (as opposed to the delay of holding the button), but also glide right off the ground from the first jump would be hella fun, but most likely broken (well, Charizard's glide sucks balls anyway so it might be ok for him :D). If any of those characters need buffs, it's something to look at, but in no way for the sake of fun if it breaks the character.

We all know MK aint' getting crap
Last time I checked, Pit was beast (correct me if I'm wrong)
But Charizard's not out of the question, is he? Have no idea how he's holding up in B+

 

[Cowbox]

I played around with Charizard for a while. He's... all right. Nothing incredible.

 

[:034:]

If you haven't heard a lot about a character, it probably means they aren't that great. d:

Really though, I main Charizard in B+ because he's a lot of fun. He's just... not that good though. He has a bit more going for him, has some okay approaches, but he's not that special. But he's certainly a lot of fun, with tilts that can both approach and kill, his throws killing seriously early and a lot of variety in play overall (since he doesn't really have moves you should definitely avoid, but not a lot that really stand out either).

 

[IM_A_HUSTLA]

i know i can play b+ without it but the momentum code just doesnt feel right, like it carries too much or something, i feel this should be left like vB

i still **** with/without it on, but i think it should be off or turned down(if possible)

 

[Cowbox]

vBrawl feels like you're jumping through molasses.

The momentum is absolutely wonderful as is. :D

 

[IM_A_HUSTLA]

ok, i havent had any freezes with beta4 but i do have a couple of glitches:

if ZSS is chosen, when the match ends the player must choose ZSS again because it goes back to Samus, probably because the original coding was intended to do so(when the match is over to change back to Sasmus not ZSS)

with momentum on, i get weird side effects when running into things(sometimes), for instance, on delfino if i were to run into a wall while jumping i get weird side effects(sometimes). I know its the momentum because it doesnt happen when i take it off

 

[Kiyuzoh]

The momentum code is very . . . . . weird, mainly because of all of the little bugs that came with it at first. Most were fixed, but any of them left (broken timer physics, random freezing, R.O.B. and Ganon's side-B) weren't fixed because of two different reasons:

1) Not figured out yet.
2) Too fun to take out.

Well, that's all I really have to add, except for the fact that I can't wait for Beta Version 4.0 to come out. (I would look into it, but I've been busy lately.)

 

[Phantom1987]

rob and ganon side-b are way better than before... And momentum is just too good.. the combos are alot more fluid with it.. @ "Im a Hustla" you are the first player I know that prefere playing without momentum.. if you don't like it you can still play without it but you will not convince the rest of the world from use it as standart

Other thing, I've tried crawl dashing while running (running ->dash canceling -> crawl backwards) and the effect is awesome...at least with sheik (the only one I've tried) it moves backwards a lot!! just like a wavedash D:!!

 

[Kiyuzoh]

Luigi's running crouch-canceled crawldash is too good, seriously. Also, I didn't say their side-Bs were nerfed with momentum, they're different, but they're also unreasonably fun, too. I'm going to bed, hope to see v4.0 tomorrow.

 

[Cowbox]

I can not get enough of Ganon's new side-B effect. It's too amazingly awesome.

EDIT: So I feel obligated to ask this because my friend complains about it ALL THE TIME. Is there any way we can fix those gimpy edges in Final Destination?

 

[CountKaiser]

Probably not, sorry.

Also, the ROB side-B and Ganon side-B thing is a desired affect of the momentum code. We're leaving it in. Also, I don't think the momentum code is causing freezes.

 

[Cowbox]

Don't apologize. If it can't be done, it can't be done.

I'll just tell him to shut up and make his own stage.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Also, the ROB side-B and Ganon side-B thing is a desired affect of the momentum code. We're leaving it in. Also, I don't think the momentum code is causing freezes.

But can we please fix Sonic's down B? That's not an improvement at all!! It's a nerf to what used to be a very combo friendly move!

 

[CountKaiser]

I don't know if anyone is working on it. Kupo needs to put that into the code agenda, as well as a hitbox mod that affects projectiles and throws.

 

[DeadX]

where can i find V4?

 

[kupo15]

I don't know if anyone is working on it. Kupo needs to put that into the code agenda, as well as a hitbox mod that affects projectiles and throws.

added.

We really need to map footstools on another jump button. I hate being forced to footstool when I am at a certain position