The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[zxeon]

By the way kupo "I can actually agree with you" is my line.

 

[Starscream]

How well does the one liner work when set to two frames?

I'd say the 1 liner set at 2 frames is better because you don't get the annoying unintended crouches after SHFFLs at all.

 

[GPDP]

I'd say the 1 liner set at 2 frames is better because you don't get the annoying unintended crouches after SHFFLs at all.

That, plus moves that are hard to do consistently at 1 buffer like Ganon's AC dair can be pulled off easily enough at 2.

Like I mentioned before, I get the feeling the one liner does not buffer directional inputs like the 16 liner does.

 

[kupo15]

Like I mentioned before, I get the feeling the one liner does not buffer directional inputs like the 16 liner does.

Almas, is this correct and is it possible to remove the directional buffering from the 16 liner? I would like to stay at 1 buffer without the crouching.

 

[Almas]

It's possible. The 16 line buffer code overwrites two variables, not one. Perhaps they are linked to inputs of different types.

 

[GPDP]

Ah, yes, that makes sense. I remember the original buffer code had two modifiable variables.

 

[kupo15]

It's possible. The 16 line buffer code overwrites two variables, not one. Perhaps they are linked to inputs of different types.

Ah ok. That would be great if one of those was the joystick and can be removed.

 

[Finns7]

We should test that asap, I can understand if we tighten it, I just dont want to lose anything. Sometimes it seems like 1 takes away things, maybe im not used to it, I am going to test 2-4

 

[CountKaiser]

Frankly, I'd like to stay with the one liner, only for the space that it saves in terms of lines.

 

[kupo15]

We should test that asap, I can understand if we tighten it, I just dont want to lose anything. Sometimes it seems like 1 takes away things, maybe im not used to it, I am going to test 2-4

You can do everything at 1

 

[Finns7]

Well I kno its a diff timing. Do you honestly think the vbrawl crowd is willing enough to relearn there timings like that? They already are reluctant to playing the **** thing, 5 or 4 wouldnt be that bad if the crouch was gone.

 

[kupo15]

Well I kno its a diff timing. Do you honestly think the vbrawl crowd is willing enough to relearn there timings like that? They already are reluctant to playing the **** thing, 5 or 4 wouldnt be that bad if the crouch was gone.

If that were the case, then my gamers club which a lot of them are noobs would refuse to play brawl+ but they do play it. No one has ever said they wanted to play vbrawl and its usually the game that gets turned into another fighter. My wii stays brawl+ and no one complains or anything

 

[Finns7]

Kupo I can say the same thing. and i dont kno wat you mean after that. Are they heavy Vbrawlers?

Anyway playing with the buffer takes gettin used to, you kno it, I kno it. But with all the negaitve hate already based off ignorance, we should prob be going toward a better buffer but not a brawl lvl, I dont think making it melee/64 lvls is the answer. I dont kno 64 and melees buffer so excuse my ignorance but it seems to feel like that and brawl is neither of those games. I do agree that the buffer could be lower than 10.

 

[kupo15]

Kupo I can say the same thing. and i dont kno wat you mean after that. Are they heavy Vbrawlers?

Anyway playing with the buffer takes gettin used to, you kno it, I kno it. But with all the negaitve hate already based off ignorance, we should prob be going toward a better buffer but not a brawl lvl, I dont think making it melee/64 lvls is the answer. I dont kno 64 and melees buffer so excuse my ignorance but it seems to feel like that and brawl is neither of those games. I do agree that the buffer could be lower than 10.

They are a bunch of hardcore vbrawlers. Hate edgehogging, wavedashing you name it. It took me a while to get one person to try brawl+ but no one who has played brawl+ complained about the buffering system

 

[goodoldganon]

Is the 1 line buffer code editable? It didn't look like it could be, but I was gonna try a 5 frame buffer if I could. See if it's buggy and what not.

I think the buffer on 2 is good. A little too strict for a few things but I suppose can I try and do it perfect. Either way, my experience with the buffer has been mostly negative for most newcomers. It's easy to get used to momentum, shieldstun, hitstun, etc but when your character doesn't do what you tell him/her to do it becomes frustrating for many.

I propose we keep the 2 buffer for competitve standards, but a 5 or just leaving it at 10 for newcomers is the way to go. Let them get adjusted to the new physics changes,then they can graduate to competitive standard.

Anyway, as I said, a few things are a little too difficult on 2. I'm for trying an unglitchy 3. Also, we have to remember that whatever happens the choice needs to be best for the community. Even if someone feels the 10 buffer screws up your whole game style but a majority likes it, we might just have to go with it.

 

[Finns7]

Kupo im just sayin no one who has played brawl+ at my local smashfest complained either @_@. I see 10's flaws flaws but i dont wanna take away brawls natural pick up and play value. Its not like brawl+ just came out, in a sense its VB, just not gay.

Ganon idk that would alienate people prob lets have that ***** player specific jk jk...it would be kool though if you had 0 to 5 frames that you could do.

Why the *** didnt sakurai give us settings for hitstun and settings for controller sensitivity?

 

[kupo15]

brawl+ is too technical to perform proficiently at 5 or higher. Its also frustrating when competitive players can't get their character to do what they want to do because the buffer system screws them over. 1 is low enough where you have help that doesn't screw you over. I think learning a harder timing that doesn't mess you up is better than an easier timing that will occasionally


Finns: don't you use 10 frame buffer at your fests?

 

[ph00tbag]

Its also frustrating when competitive players can't get their character to do what they want to do because the buffer system screws them over.

Seriously, every time I see this assertion, I roll my eyes a little bit harder. If you input the wrong move 10 frames before the animation can begin, you still input the wrong move. No Johns. I'm rarely screwed over by the buffer system, because I keep control of my inputs, and if I am, I have the balls to admit it's my own fault.

If you input the right move in the same circumstances, then I agree it makes it easier, but I really don't see how it's a bad thing. Nerfing ease of control is a little bit... high brow.

 

[Finns7]

People ***** at 1 i would go 4 to 5 (5 glitched in one of the codes so idk). They liked the way brawl felt, idk dude it depends on person with this most likely. I kno 1 is possible with everything its just when i would have it on, they would say dumb **** like the hitstun is too much, I couldnt upb???? Im like na its the buffer. I would just take it off.

And I never heard a great vbrawler complain about the buffer at 10. I played renegadetx an ike player, he never died from nair, he never said anything that makes the buffer make brawl a bad competetive game. No one has ever said brawl "suks" because of the buffer. I do think it could be better than 10 by lowering it but im not sold on 1 yet.

 

[kupo15]

Seriously, every time I see this assertion, I roll my eyes a little bit harder. If you input the wrong move 10 frames before the animation can begin, you still input the wrong move. No Johns. I'm rarely screwed over by the buffer system, because I keep control of my inputs, and if I am, I have the balls to admit it's my own fault.

If you input the right move in the same circumstances, then I agree it makes it easier, but I really don't see how it's a bad thing. Nerfing ease of control is a little bit... high brow.

Ummm no. The punishment for inputting the move early is no move at all. Think back to melee Marth's nair. You jump early and you get no just and most likely die. It took me a while to learn the nair timing. The same goes with the double fair. It was hard at first and the penalty for inputting early is no combo. That is the punishment.

 

[Eaode]

Anyone that would have trouble with the buffer mod would be someone that knows how to do strict-timing moves, AKA someone who plays competitively and should have no problem adjusting to a more precise timing. Noobs complaining about not doing up-b's etc are just people making Johns, of COURSE they will hate the low buffer if you tell them that it just made them die (which it probably didn't)

 

[PanzerOceania]

casual players aren't gonna notice the difference, honestly.

 

[Finns7]

We have how many buffer codes, the long one thats old, the 16 line one and the 1 liner....which works best?

 

[GPDP]

The one liner. It doesn't seem to buffer directional inputs.

 

[gamegeek27]

Ok, I'm not quite sure if its up, but how about some way to create extra frametime to be able to dash-attack cancel? You know, like so we can Boost-up smash at later points in the dash attack? Like, so snake doesn't only snake dash at the beginning of his dash attack, but rather he can do it in the middle of his dash-attack animation? Yeah, i think i made myself clear.

 

[Finns7]

Nah its fine as is, and it only wasted code space

 

[ph00tbag]

Ummm no. The punishment for inputting the move early is no move at all. Think back to melee Marth's nair. You jump early and you get no just and most likely die. It took me a while to learn the nair timing. The same goes with the double fair. It was hard at first and the penalty for inputting early is no combo. That is the punishment.

And what's the punishment for inputting the wrong move whether it's 10 frames early or 10 frames late? In Melee, there is none. In Brawl there is. Oh wait, you don't want to be punished for that because it's not your fault, it's the buffering screwing you up.

You're still thinking about this game in terms of Melee, and that's not how you should be thinking about it. You should be thinking in terms of what is uncompetitive and what isn't. In Brawl, you have to be careful and conservative with your inputs. And there is nothing uncompetitive about that. Ultimately, neither way can really be said to be better. They both punish you for different things that can be said to be bad.

In that case, it's really about whether you would like to see B+ be a correction of the things that don't work in Brawl, or just dumbed down version of Melee with more characters. As yet, I have yet to see a definitive statement from anyone which of the two it's supposed to be, but I've been assuming since the game is called "Brawl+" that it is meant to be the former. For that reason, why change what works in Brawl, if that's not the purpose of Brawl+?

I'm not just trying to be argumentative here, either. I just want to see a really good definition in a sort of Brawl+ charter, or at least to have someone explain to me why decisions are being made the way their being made in a way that is concise and consistent. Thus far, I've seen nothing satisfactory.

 

[Eaode]

if you enter a move while you are doing another move, the input shouldn't register. you want the game to punish you for inputting something "wrong" when it should not even react to your inputs in the first place. this is in no way comparable to punishing players for sloppy inputs (inputting things when they are not supposed to).

Low buffer makes the input system more precise and does not encourage sloppy play. Brawl can punish you for doing something right, but then ending up in the wrong position to do that by the time the action can be used (the classic example being a Nair suicide when trying to shieldgrab). that input shouldn't have been read at all, which would be the punishment for doing it wrong. instead the sloppy buffer window can screw you over.

yes, both systems punish one thing and encourage another. but one makes players know their proper timings and be more precise, and one facilitates sloppy play and can potentially screw you over when it shouldn't. take your pick.

 

[izzy24]

When's the next update gonna be and is it me or was the default settings mod been taken out?

 

[kupo15]

if you enter a move while you are doing another move, the input shouldn't register. you want the game to punish you for inputting something "wrong" when it should not even react to your inputs in the first place. this is in no way comparable to punishing players for sloppy inputs (inputting things when they are not supposed to).

Low buffer makes the input system more precise and does not encourage sloppy play. Brawl can punish you for doing something right, but then ending up in the wrong position to do that by the time the action can be used (the classic example being a Nair suicide when trying to shieldgrab). that input shouldn't have been read at all, which would be the punishment for doing it wrong. instead the sloppy buffer window can screw you over.

yes, both systems punish one thing and encourage another. but one makes players know their proper timings and be more precise, and one facilitates sloppy play and can potentially screw you over when it shouldn't. take your pick.

^^Basically this.

I'd rather not spend the match fighting the game and being punished by a mechanic that seemingly has a mind of its own at times and I'd rather pay attention to my opponent. I'd rather be punished by using the wrong move at the right time instead of the right move when the game isn't ready for that move,then the next frame has a completely different situation in which that right move is now a wrong move that I have no control over to fix. I'm not fighting the game and being punished by the game, I'm fighting and being punished by the opponent. Sloppy controls is the worst thing you can do to a video game.

I have never thought the buffering system worked in vbrawl...ever which is why I don't want to keep it. How am I thinking of this in terms of melee? I just used melee as an example for how you would get punished but the concept of a tight buffering system whether it be 0,1 w/e has been around since before melee. I can't believe you are turning this into a melee vs brawl(+) argument


An interesting idea someone proposed would be turning the handicap function into a buffer scale. That is a great idea that fits everyone

 

[Revven]

Okay guys, something strange happened today with SHeLL and I with PT's no stamina code in Beta 3.3. He was Squirtle and I was Charizard. As the match continued, around on his second or last stock, I noticed his Squirtle was in his fatigue animation where as I was not. I hadn't been fatigued at all, the entire match I wasn't fatigued. Yet, on his second stock he got fatigued and then as soon as he respawned and two minutes had gone by (I think) he was fatigued again.

Has anyone else had this happen before? I haven't so it struck me as odd. Is there something faulty with the code if both players are one of PT's pokemon or is just beta 3.3? I think we saved the match and if we did, I'll record it tonight and get it up tomorrow or something.

IT WAS REALLY WEIRD.

 

[izzy24]

3.3? I though that wasn't out yet cause the first post one is v3.2...

 

[Shell]

Not released yet. We were just testing it for bugs. Which we found.

 

[leafgreen386]

3.3? I though that wasn't out yet cause the first post one is v3.2...

V3.3 hasn't been officially released yet, however, the unreleased beta sets frequently get posted on the irc when we're testing changes in certain codes that we need to make sure are in working order. SMK and shell are on the irc frequently, so naturally they're some of the people who got to test it.

 

[Shell]

Also, SMK and I tested out some Lucas tweaks. They didn't seem OP - here they are in case any Lucas players / opponents want to give them a shot. These are not official in the slightest, just experimenting so throw them in the Frame Speed Engine and try them out.

1A370032 40200000
1A080034 3FA66666
1A000028 3FACCCCC

Reduces cooldown on U-smash and standing Grab, which (in my experience) were punished more often than they were successful in Brawl+ due to faster gameplay. Nothing too dramatic, but it makes the moves usable again. Also, the utilt is slightly faster to facilitate combos. Still less effective than Ness, in my opinion.

If people think Lucas is fine, I'd love to see some **** videos of him in Brawl+.

 

[Phantom1987]

hmmm it would be awesome if buffer modification could be stored in names or maybe in player numbers... I think that even when there was "none" in melee, people that are getting into brawl+ are used to brawl and they could feel uncomfortable playing with buffer "0"... I personally prefere playing with brawl buff modification and I tryed playing with low buff but I just dislike it. I'm not asking too change the standart buf that you all have chosen, I'm just wandering if this point of view could be considered and respected.

 

[kupo15]

I'm against the usmash for sure. I'm iffy on the other two. How much are they sped up by? You can't just give us a speed up code without a measure

 

[maplesyrupandjam]

I don't know if this is just happening to me but.. Using the feb 22 codeset- the most recent one- every time i play a match with items on, the game will freeze at about the middle of the match. It's happens consistently only when i use items.. Has this been happening to anyone else??

 

[Asylum]

Lets see. For the next beta. Off the top of my head:

-Make links recovery better
-Slightly Lower the % that Ivy's uair gives. (It combo tech chases easily which makes the opponents damage skyrocket.
-Make Meta Knights up b slightly worse somehow (It's still broken)
-Freeze Lylat Cruise
-Shorten the amount of time Wario's down smash takes to finish

Will add more later. Of course these are just suggestions. Everyone might not agree with them but most should.

 

[Shell]

The Usmash still has all of the start up lag. The Cooldown (I guessed around frame 50, would need to confirm this) is reduced from 73 (!) frames to 32 frames. With the higher dash speeds anyone can punish this move quite easily. The increases to gravity for most characters also make it a less effective kill move. Try it out first. I think it's reasonable. It's still quite punishable if you whiff.

The u-tilt is 1.35x

The grab is now 1.3x after the hitbox comes out.