Q&A The Bowser Questions and Advice Thread

[SypherPhoenix]

There are more ways to fortresshog. I've been doing them for years.

Maybe I'll get off my *** and make a video. Some day.

 

[theNEXUS]

ok to all im a newbie at Melee and Brawl cuz iv just started but iv decided to main Bowser in Melee and Ice Climbers in Brawl but i hve just want advice for bowser which matchup do yall think is Bowser's best matchup??

 

[bubbaking]

Is Bowser vs Yoshi really in Yoshi's favor? I feel like Bowser might have an edge. Lol.

Since no one answered these Qs before, I guess I'll do it now (hope it's not considered unnecessary bumping since these Bowser threads DO need a little life). The matchup between Boozer and Yoshi is currently 6:4 in Bowser's favor. Bowser is one of the 6 characters that have a good matchup against a character higher than them on the matchup chart. However, 6:4 is only a slight advantage, making Bowser simply a soft counter. Matches like these could easily tip in an experienced Yoshi's favor. Here's the current matchup chart: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234220

ok to all im a newbie at Melee and Brawl cuz iv just started but iv decided to main Bowser in Melee and Ice Climbers in Brawl but i hve just want advice for bowser which matchup do yall think is Bowser's best matchup??

According to that chart I cited above, Boozer's best matchup is his only advantageous matchup: Yoshi. Think hard on whether you really want to main Bowser, for the road ahead is long and arduous.

Wow! Once again, there seem to be two pages of posts at the end of this thread, but in no way can they be viewed.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

What do I do about Marths that just stand still and spam FTilts and FSmashes? They're so annoying.

About the only thing I've ever done that has worked is bait them to me by attempting (and failing) to wavedash.

Edit: As I said in Gimpy's intro thread, I could also use some tips on dealing with crowds.

 

[Jonas]

Tipper Fsmash is -26 on shield which gives you enough time to jump out and fair him (9 frames (jump) + 9 (Fair hits on 8-11, but the hitbox on frame 9 seems most likely to hit) = 18), but only with 8 frames to spare. If he doesn't tipper you have a few more frames, but you still have to react pretty fast.

You could also try to jump out and Klaw them if they shield/do nothing after Fsmashing.

Note that you might get pushed too far backwards for any of this to work, especially if he tips.

Tipper Ftilt is between -18 and -21 depending on which part of the hitbox of the hitbox he hits with. You could probably just Up B him, but if you don't sweetspot it it's useless.

The best thing to do though is to avoid the move altogether. Since they just spam Ftilt/Fsmash it doesn't sound like it'd be too hard. Stay just outside their range and dash in and out. Punish them with Fair or run in and grab.
A good thing to practice is to get as much range out of your Fair as possible by hitting with the very tip of the attack. It lets you hit sooner and keep yourself safer by being further away.

Bowser is terrible in groups. I'd suggest playing 2v2. Not only does it make Bowser a bit more viable, it's also arguably more fun because it's more tactical.

 

[bubbaking]

Would Bowser have enough time to punish if he spot-dodged, seeing as how his dodge is so slow? Also, imo, Bowser is a tank in 2v2 unless he's bein' double-teamed. >:D

 

[Supreme Dirt]

So here's the thing.

How many Bowser players are there out there, that would be up for getting some discussion going on around here?

I'd be down.

Seeing as I'm actually seriously trying to get into Melee now.


Also this thread is broke.

It's saying there's a page 22, and when I click it it brings me to page 21.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

What do I do about crowds if playing on teams isn't an option? I picked Yoshi's Story the other day and lost miserably because I couldn't concentrate on any one player and got juggled around by my friends.

So far, I've come to the conclusion that picking smaller stages is a bad idea. I've also noted that the two Mushroom Kingdom stages are great for Bowser because of his strong horizontal knockback. If any of the opponents stand near the edge of the stage, they're an easy KO. So what stage(s) would be ideal for 4-player FFA?

 

[bubbaking]

Also this thread is broke.

It's saying there's a page 22, and when I click it it brings me to page 21.

This is present in quite a few threads. According to what someone once told me, the posts of banned members are on those last "unseeable" pages.

What do I do about crowds if playing on teams isn't an option? I picked Yoshi's Story the other day and lost miserably because I couldn't concentrate on any one player and got juggled around by my friends.

So far, I've come to the conclusion that picking smaller stages is a bad idea. I've also noted that the two Mushroom Kingdom stages are great for Bowser because of his strong horizontal knockback. If any of the opponents stand near the edge of the stage, they're an easy KO. So what stage(s) would be ideal for 4-player FFA?

Well, you know, for the most part, we specialize in 1v1 and 2v2 combat. FFA isn't our thing. I guess shield and upB often since grabbing SHOULD be risky for the opponent (unless you're being triple-teamed). Oh, and the best counterpick stage is the random button.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

This is present in quite a few threads. According to what someone once told me, the posts of banned members are on those last "unseeable" pages.

Naw, it's just a bug with vBulletin. It'll show the next page before it even exists when the previous page is full enough. I've seen it happen on other sites too.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

One thing I've seen Bowser pros do time and time again that I can't figure out is they hop straight up from a ledge. No special (laggy) ledge animations or anything; they just jump. How exactly do they do this? The closest I've been able to get to it is dropping off the ledge and immediately jumping. Is that actually how it's done, or is there some other special technique to it?

 

[Phiddlesticks]

if its what im thinking of, its just timing your double jump so that bowser lands on the stage right at the peak of it

i noticed a lot of samuses do it too, the lagless double jump to dsmash from the edge (i dunno if theres an actual name for this though lol)

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Okay, so I'm having a hell of a time wavedashing with Bowser. Like ****, his jump is so laggy I just can't do it. Any tips or anything? I'ma keep working on it, but bleh.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

if its what im thinking of, its just timing your double jump so that bowser lands on the stage right at the peak of it

i noticed a lot of samuses do it too, the lagless double jump to dsmash from the edge (i dunno if theres an actual name for this though lol)

No, I've seen Bowser players catch the edge and jump straight up from it, even at >100% damage, and sometimes perform a 'Klaw as they come up and trade places with their opponents in the process. I think I've figured out how they do this.

If I've got it right, you press down on the control stick and press one of the jump buttons almost simultaneously. If you want to 'Klaw back up to the stage, you need to put it in almost immediately after that. Just DON'T screw up, or you'll 'Klaw face-first into the side of the stage, and the move's lag (along with gravity) will doom you.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Oh yeah, instant double jumps.

God, I hate how ledge jumps in this game are so bad.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Oh yeah, instant double jumps.

God, I hate how ledge jumps in this game are so bad.

Agreed. I was once MarthSmashed to my death while performing that super laggy jump-over-the-edge animation. The ledge recovery animations always leave you so wide-open and helpless.

 

[soju]

@gamma :< yeah, just requires practice to do, no secret technique just press down and jump really fast :]

and ledgejumps just suck period, little invincibility, super lag, just dont do it

 

[bubbaking]

Naw, it's just a bug with vBulletin. It'll show the next page before it even exists when the previous page is full enough. I've seen it happen on other sites too.

Well, if that's really the case, then why is this thread showing TWO pages at the end that we can't view?

i noticed a lot of samuses do it too, the lagless double jump to dsmash from the edge (i dunno if theres an actual name for this though lol)

I think DJing after letting go of the ledge is called ledgehopping.

Okay, so I'm having a hell of a time wavedashing with Bowser. Like ****, his jump is so laggy I just can't do it. Any tips or anything? I'ma keep working on it, but bleh.

Yeah, his jump is so crappy... -_- Basically, delay your pressing of the shield button for the air dodge until the very moment he leaves the ground. There are other chars w/ somewhat laggy wavedashes (Link, Ganon, Zelda, lolz Triforce of Lag), but I'm certain Bowser's is by far the laggiest. You'll have to experiment a bit, but if you don't get anything you're pressing the shield button too early. If you see the dodge, you're pressing it too late.

@gamma :< yeah, just requires practice to do, no secret technique just press down and jump really fast :]

and ledgejumps just suck period, little invincibility, super lag, just dont do it

You can also press backwards (away from the stage) to let go. That way, you won't fastfall immediately which might help w/ your timing.

Jumping from the ledge may have lag and little invincibility, but I wouldn't outright say to never use it. It achieves a height that can't be reached by ledgehopping or even by regular jumping with Bowser.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah 9 frame jumps are the worst. Funny thing is I can do it fine as Link.

 

[bubbaking]

He probably has the lowest lag on his jump out of the Triforce group, barring YL. I believe Link can also moonwalk quite well, so that also aids his mobility. IMO, Bowser's WD is mostly just useful for stopping a dash, but I'm starting to think that crouching does the job just as well...

 

[hectohertz]

what determines whether the klaw grabs or just does damage

 

[bubbaking]

The distance. If you hit w/ the klaw as it's just coming out, i.e. the opponent is right in front of Bowser, you'll grab him and begin to bite him. If this is not the case, a slashing hitbox will come out and anything hit by the klaw at this time will get sent upwards.

 

[Blistering Speed]

I ****ing hate Fortress.

That is all.

 

[Jonas]

Learn how to space your attacks lol. I hardly ever hit (let alone sweetspot) anyone with Fortress OoS anymore because people hit my shield with the very tip of their attacks.

 

[bubbaking]

Word. Fortress is only good for the invincibility and the strength of the initial hitbox after that, as well as the speed at which it comes out and the ability to run away to the ledge once all that is done. Its lag time is horrible so on bigger stages, you should have no trouble punishing that crap if you space your attacks properly.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Falcos! ARGH!

What should I do about FSmash- and back roll-spamming Falcos? I have two friends (at least) who play Falco like this, and they're annoyingly hard to hit and their FSmash spam is frustratingly hard to not get pulverized by.

Also, first post of 2012 in the Bowser boards!

 

[Jonas]

Shield vs Fsmash and start uthrow chaining, or just Up B them out of shield. If they whiff you can just punish them by running up and grabbing, depending on how close you are of course.

Against rolls you just have to pay attention to their roll patterns and punish accordingly.
Do they roll away from you? They forfeit space which lets you approach and put pressure on them.
Do they roll towards you? Run up and grab lol
Do they roll into your hitbox? Up B and Dsmash are pretty good.

You're lucky they dont know how to spam lasers yet lolzz

 

[Beat!]

F-smash and back roll-spamming Falcos?

Sounds like heaven to me.

 

[Jonas]

Yeah it's really basic, but everyone has to start somewhere

 

[Beat!]

True, true.



Hey, Gamma, if you want to really HUMILIATE them, run up to them and then f-smash in the opposite direction.

Hilarity will ensue.

The funniest part is that you'll probably be able to hit it several times.




For more serious solutions, just follow the advice Jonas gave you.

GLAD I COULD HELP.

 

[Jonas]

It's not bad advice if they panic-roll lol
Dash, duck, c-stick backwards

 

[Beat!]

Yeah, I mean, if it works then go ahead. I just don't think it'll work that well against better players

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Thanks for the help, guys.

Yeah it's really basic, but everyone has to start somewhere

Indeed. I still have quite a bit to learn.

I haven't ever attended any tournaments or smashfests. Is participating in a smashfest or attending in a tournament (as in just being there and watching) something I should look into doing?

Hey, Gamma, if you want to really HUMILIATE them, run up to them and then f-smash in the opposite direction.

Hilarity will ensue.

Sounds like a great way to get myself FSmashed, to be honest. But I will give it a try.

How exactly does one up-throw chain fast-fallers? I've seen it done before, but I've been unable to chain my friends' Falcos and Foxes with up-throw myself. They always seem to be able to jump out of it before I can grab them a second time.

Another question: how exactly is 'Fortress OoS done? I just continue holding shield and input up+B. Am I doing it correctly? Because it only sometimes works. When it doesn't, Bowser will just stand there holding his shield over his head while I mash the B button in vain. It seems to do this immediately after someone hits my shield. Is it caused by shield hitlag or something of the like?

Man, I'm just brimming with questions. I thank you guys in advance for your patience.

 

[Jonas]

Yeah it sounds like shieldlag. You also cannot hold the control stick up and press B because you need to jump first and then cancel your jump with the attack, so you need to wait until shieldlag is gone and then press up+B.

As for the Uthrow chain, maybe you just grab too late. If they DI fully away, you have to dash and grab immediately (and no jump cancel grab).

I haven't ever attended any tournaments or smashfests. Is participating in a smashfest or attending in a tournament (as in just being there and watching) something I should look into doing?

Definitely! Playing a bunch of different people is the best way to get better, and it's just an overall amazing social experience.
If you're planning on getting good at this game though, it's probably best to main someone else and just use Bowser in funsies. It's sad but he's just a terrible character. It's your call of course, but I think you'd do yourself a favor if you actually learn a better character. It might even improve your Bowser game to learn how other characters work.

 

[DJ Nintendo]

Me vs. SFAT in pools at Apex featuring my Bowser.

Match 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQBoCMNCg1E

Match 2 & 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkezmVsoAIk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

 

[Jonas]

Very inspirational vids =)
Good job 2-stocking SFAT with Bowser lol

Btw how did you and WK do?

 

[DJ Nintendo]

If you're referring to doubles, I didn't team with him. I haven't teamed with him in a very long time. I teamed with Alukard and got 7th. I team with Alukard all the time. We could've gotten top 3 but there was random crap that happened at Apex. Its all good. We still placed top 8, which was in the money.

 

[Jonas]

I really meant individually really, although I kind of assumed you were still teaming ;P
Gratz anyway.

 

[DJ Nintendo]

I barely almost got first seed in my first round pools going all Bowser. SFAT beat me 2-1 as you see in the videos. Then I forfeited singles because my friends were extremely tired and wanted to sleep and I was in charge of my hotel room. Plus the tournament was taking too damn long to start second round pools. So I said **** it and left. Friends' health over a game.

 

[Frisbie]

can bowser **** link? cause im trying to convince my friend to play marth and link instead of going all link all the time, and i told him if i four stock his link with bowser that he has to at least second marth. i practiced with bowser a bit, and i actually like him a lot. i think im definitely going to start playing him in friendlies more. anyways, can bowser **** link?