Q&A The Bowser Questions and Advice Thread

[Jonas]

Uh, it's definitely a tough match-up. If he plays it correctly you'll have a very VERY hard time dodging projectiles. You'd probably want to avoid large stages. Also be careful you don't get shield-poked by Dair if your shield is kind of spent.

If he's sort of on your skill level, I don't think you're going to 4 stock him with Bowser anytime soon.

 

[Frisbie]

nah im a lot better than him, but i think it will stiill be hard to four stock him with bowser haha. thanks for the tips, now i know what to look out for. i just need to get a lead early so he cant camp me

 

[DerfMidWest]

can bowser **** link? cause im trying to convince my friend to play marth and link instead of going all link all the time, and i told him if i four stock his link with bowser that he has to at least second marth. i practiced with bowser a bit, and i actually like him a lot. i think im definitely going to start playing him in friendlies more. anyways, can bowser **** link?

hey let him play who he wants.
I can't tell you how many times people have told me to second/switch to Pika or something because he's kinda similar to Pichu and ****.
It gets really annoying.
He plays link because he likes the character, so let him go on having fun with his link.
If he doesn't want to play marth, don't push him towards playing marth.

 

[Frisbie]

im not pushing him to stop playing link, im just trying to show him that its's good to have other options, especially if the only character he knows how to play is link. he's fairly new to the game and doesnt play that much, and he hasnt really gotten the chance to try playing other characters. im just trying to get him to try other characters that he might like, and he said that he kind of likes marth too. if he plays marth and ends up liking him, that would be a good option for him to have in addition to link. and if he plays other characters and doesnt like them or prefers link, i will let him play link. he said that if i four stocked him with bowser that he would look into playing other characters, and if he ends up liking link the best, i will let him have at it with link. i used to main ness, now he's my second to doc. everyone tells me i should play a top tier, and for i long time i ignored them. i still am not good with any of the top tier, but now i mess around with them more to see if i like any of them at all. theyre good options for low tier mains to have, that is if you want to do well in a tournament. look at qerb, mofo, taj, axe and vectorman. they all main low tiers and have really good top/high tiers as another option.

 

[Jonas]

Eh, let him play Link, especially if he's new to the game. Chances are that he'll realize Link is garbage and switch to a better character at some point. You never know though, maybe he'll end up being really awesome with Link.

When I started playing Melee, I mained Bowser. I eventually just switched to Marth, and although I kind of wish I had started playing him sooner (although I don't think I'd be much better with him today if I had), I'm glad nobody tried to push me to play him.

 

[Frisbie]

yeah, im not so much trying to push him into not playing link, i just want him to try out other characters before he devotes a lot of time to him. he's very open to trying new characters, like i showed him some marth videos and he said that he definitely wants to play marth too.

i also showed him some lord hdl link videos, that guy is ridiculous. i told him that if he got really good with link that i would be really proud of him, but i also told him how all the really good low tier mains have high tier seconds. i definitely wont discourage him playing link though, seeing as i used to play ness lol.

yeah, but we mainly just joke about it, like he'll be like "link's number one!" and then i'll be like "nah that's ness"

 

[bubbaking]

To be honest, a bunch of us down here on Long Island often recommend Sheik and Marth for beginners, just to get a hang of the fundamentals of Smash. We had a new guy who really wanted to play Fox so he asked us for advice, but we identified immediatlely that what he really needed were lessons on how to play the game. We told him all the basic stuff, like L-cancelling and SHFFLing, but in the end, Fox is simply a hard char to practice those techs with. So we suggested that he switch to Marth or Sheik for a limited time in order to learn those stuff better. We told him that once he knew how to "play the game", he'd be ready to switch back to Fox and learn super ATs.

When I started playing Melee, I mained Bowser. I eventually just switched to Marth, and although I kind of wish I had started playing him sooner (although I don't think I'd be much better with him today if I had), I'm glad nobody tried to push me to play him.

Wow, that's pretty much my story! My gamer tag is SeriousB (SRSB) for Serious Bowser, cuz my first main was actually Bowser. After a while of suckage, I went thru literally ALL of top tier and settled on Sheik. After a while of Sheik BS, I sniffed around the lower tiers and Samus became my true main. Now, I've returned a bit to Bowser and I'm happy to say I have him in my arsenal of chars I can have skillful fun with.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Since Fox and Falco are a couple of my friends' characters of choice, I could use some projectile-reflecting skills. Anyone got any advice on learning to powershield lasers? About when does one shield, in terms of where the laser is at? And what are some good ways to practice?

 

[bubbaking]

Powershielding is pretty difficult in Melee. I don't know about Fox, but I guess for Falco, learn the timing of his laserhops. I believe you have a 4-frame (1/15th of a second) window to pull off the powershield (PS) successfully, so you can't really PS on reaction, but you can do it somewhat easily if you know the timing. I guess to practice PS in general, try to shield slower attacks, like Doc's pills and Peach's turnips, at the last possible moment before they hit you (shield comes up on frame 1, I think).

 

[E-102 Gamma]

What should I do if a Fox or especially a Falco starts off a match on Final Destination by just standing where he falls and spamming lasers until I get close enough to be an immediate threat?

Because a friend of mine does this.

Every single time.

This is why I asked about techniques to practice powershielding.

Btw, this friend of mine hasn't learned how to shorthop spam lasers (and thinks that spamming lasers as Fox isn't worth it). I am uncertain of whether this is a good thing or a bad thing for my progress as a Bowser main...

And speaking of powershielding, this same friend of mine's little brother's main is Mewtwo. What's the frame window for powershielding shadow balls (particularly fully charged ones, if it matters)? I ask because I've done it twice already with relative ease (dunno if I actually hit anyone with them, though).

 

[Bing]

Okay so Powershielding happens with the projectile (So lasers, Shadow Ball etc) gets inside the shield box and THEN you shield. So basically when the attack is just about hit you and you shield.

Now as for your spammy Friend, camp the ledge and make him come to you Your bowser, you shouldnt really be approaching like that anyways.

 

[phish-it]

Bowser is the hardest character to powershield with. It's not practical to really even use it, especially for something like Mewtwo's shadowball. FD is going to be terrible no matter what for a character with spammable projectiles for Bowser, bring him to Yoshi Story.

 

[Bing]

I agree with that, if he's going to spam, then no fd... even dreamland gives you platforms.

If he's not spamming, fds fine because you can pseudo cg.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Okay so Powershielding happens with the projectile (So lasers, Shadow Ball etc) gets inside the shield box and THEN you shield. So basically when the attack is just about hit you and you shield.

I know how to powershield reflect. I was asking about how much time a Bowser player has to powershield before the shadow ball hits him(/her?).

My friend's little brother isn't exactly what you'd call pro. My friend only owns Brawl (though he prefers Melee afaik) and his little brother only recently decided to pick up Mewtwo. His bro doesn't really spam shadow balls as much as he opportunistically charges them up and fires them into the fray hoping that they'll hit someone (since he rarely gets to go 1-on-1).

And like I said, I have reflected at least two fully-charged shadow balls already.

 

[Bing]

How about this, its not long. I mean a Powershield happens when the projectile is within your shield. Therefore by this understanding, its a few frames in which you have to react. I really REALLY would recommend relying on this, however it is something good to know

 

[TheGoat]

jump jump jump and come down when hes lazering and hit him with fair
then just edgeguard

 

[bubbaking]

I believe you have a 4 frame (1/15th of a second) window to PS correctly. That's faster than human reaction time...

 

[standardtoaster]

Actually, iirc it's a 4 frame window to PS a physical attack and a 2 frame window to PS a projectile.

 

[bubbaking]

Wow, even less time.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Doesn't it depend on the speed of the projectile? After all, it stands to reason that the slower a projectile is, the more time it will spend within a character's shieldable area.

 

[bubbaking]

I don't think so...

Edit: The frame leniency probably describes how early you can press the shield button and still PS. 2 frames means 1/30th of a second, so you have from 1/30th of a second before a projectile reaches you to shield it and reflect it. For faster projectiles, that means you'd have to shield while they're still 'farther away.' That's what I think, anyway.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Is it odd that I sometimes use BAir while moving forward to hit someone who's in front of me?

And speaking of BAir, I tend to use it on stationary opponents while coming down at them, which often leaves me wide open to counterattack. Is this a habit I need to break? And if so, what should I be doing instead? How should I be approaching, say, Marths and Foxes?

 

[E-102 Gamma]

How exactly does one moonwalk as Bowser, and about how difficult is it? My understanding is that one just has to get the directional stick from one side to the other without going through the center, but thus far, I have been unable to perform this correctly. Are there any tricks or techniques to it that make it easier?

And yes, I realize it's more for show than for any practical use. But I like doing useless technical things.

 

[Jonas]

It's very difficult to get any noticable distance. You can however make it look a little flashy by doing a backwards waveland and then do the moonwalk. You get a little more distance this way because the backwards waveland gives you some momentum.

You can also try bunnyhoods, which works wonders for every character's moonwalk.

Is it odd that I sometimes use BAir while moving forward to hit someone who's in front of me?

And speaking of BAir, I tend to use it on stationary opponents while coming down at them, which often leaves me wide open to counterattack. Is this a habit I need to break? And if so, what should I be doing instead? How should I be approaching, say, Marths and Foxes?

You don't approach Marths and Foxes. The moment you get out of your comfort zone, you are playing their game. I'm sorry but that's just one of the drawbacks of playing such a terrible character. Just try to have control over the stage instead.

And no, don't use Bair to attack people in front of you. It has no forward range and it takes weeks for it to come out and recover. Fair is just better.

 

[pingding]

I have a question I use the nair pretty often is it one of his better moves for adding damage?

When I'm fighting a falco I'm always getting caught in the lasers what should I do I can't approach cause I'll get ***** but I can't sit there either

 

[E-102 Gamma]

How exactly is 'Klaw regrabbing done, and who does it work on (provided the opponent DI's badly enough)?

Edit: What moves can Bowser use to save his teammates with in Doubles? Is it really just Fire Breath and aerial Whirling Fortress?

 

[TheGoat]

How exactly is 'Klaw regrabbing done, and who does it work on (provided the opponent DI's badly enough)?

Edit: What moves can Bowser use to save his teammates with in Doubles? Is it really just Fire Breath and aerial Whirling Fortress?

question 1. bowser has a small frame advantage after letting go after grabbing someone. People can jump out of a normal grab to avoid this but not the koopa klaw. So a koopa klaw infinite is possible with 2 bowser.

quesiton 2. your duty to report back to the bowser boards with this answer.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

question 1. bowser has a small frame advantage after letting go after grabbing someone. People can jump out of a normal grab to avoid this but not the koopa klaw. So a koopa klaw infinite is possible with 2 bowser.

Pardon me. I meant the 'Klaw f-throw "chaingrab," where you catch someone with the 'Klaw, f-throw, and then jump up and catch them again. I saw someone (Gimpyfish?) do this to a Captain Falcon player in a video on YouTube. I think the video might have been Boozer Cute, actually.

I say "chaingrab" in quotes because it looks like it's escapable with proper DI.

 

[TheGoat]

Pardon me. I meant the 'Klaw f-throw "chaingrab," where you catch someone with the 'Klaw, f-throw, and then jump up and catch them again. I saw someone (Gimpyfish?) do this to a Captain Falcon player in a video on YouTube. I think the video might have been Boozer Cute, actually.

I say "chaingrab" in quotes because it looks like it's escapable with proper DI.

oh my bad. For that question I'm not sure, it probably works only on fast fallers particularly falcon because he is tall. try it on cpu, just do klaw and do the forward throw, jump up and reverse side b should grab them again

 

[E-102 Gamma]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9NaIYFnVgY

These guys are saying that Fox's up-throw to up-air combo doesn't work on Bowser.

This is news to me.

Would someone please fill me in? How does a Bowser player avoid getting uair-spammed to death by Fox players? L/R+C-stick up to jump as soon as possible or nair if the Fox player goes for the uair too late?

 

[E-102 Gamma]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_tW7Co02aI

There's Gimpyfish doing that 'Klaw chain thing I was talking about. Is it an actual chain, or can it be DI'd out of?

 

[OliClutch117]

So just picked up Bowser what are some of the basic skills I should learn first?

 

[E-102 Gamma]

So just picked up Bowser what are some of the basic skills I should learn first?

Whirling Fortress out of shield. The bread and butter of maining Bowser.

Fortresshogging. See these videos: Fortresshogging by MagnuM and Fortresshogging Guide Supplement by Seikend.

As for tech skill that isn't exclusive to Bowser, ledgehopping is a must. (In case you don't know how to ledgehop, it's just a ledge drop, either by pressing down or away from the ledge, followed as closely as possible by a jump.) Learn to ledgehop into other moves, especially bair, fair, and the Koopa Klaw (side-B). Note that the Koopa Klaw is a grab move that also works while Bowser is airborne, so it can be used from a ledgehop to grab shielding opponents who are standing over the ledge that Bowser is hanging from.

Otherwise, just watch lots of videos of Gimpyfish, DJ Nintendo, and WarriorKnight playing as Bowser, try to figure out what they're doing, and implement it into your own metagame.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

How about some Bowser theorycrafting?

So I was watching some videos in my free time, and I came across a specific match that made me question my use of Bowser's neutral-b for edgeguarding and covering options.

If you look here and here, you can see some situations where I feel like using neutral-b (unextended) would have been a good way to cover a few options and force the Fox to recover a bit higher.

I'd be curious to see some input from DJ, but what do you guys think? Thoughts?

Admittedly, though, I couldn't help but feel that DJ was playing a bit off that first game, but I'm just trying to get some discussion going.

 

[Kalimari]

^Can't answer that right now cuz I'm a Bowser n00b. Well maybe I will, just not now.

Just wanted to ask what stages you wanna strike, ban, and counterpick against the top tiers. Fox and Falco specifically.

 

[OliClutch117]

For info on stage bans check out this thread.

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/whats-the-best-stage-to-ban-against-high-tiers.248961/

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

^Can't answer that right now cuz I'm a Bowser n00b. Well maybe I will, just not now.

Just wanted to ask what stages you wanna strike, ban, and counterpick against the top tiers. Fox and Falco specifically.

As bowser, you're almost always going to want to ban Final Destination.

Personally, my favourite stages to bring spacies are small, closed in stages. Fountain of Dreams is my personal favourite with Bowser, but I feel Battlefield is probably better. Most will ban Yoshi's, so try and practice on these two stages imo.

I almost always try to strike to either Battlefield or Fountain, unless they don't seem to try and strike Yoshi's.

And if you read anything in that thread, only really take Warriorknight, dashdancedan, and Gimpyfish's posts with a grain of salt.

 

[Uncivilized Elk]

Is there anything viable about Bowser's WD at all? I've been messing with it and it seems even with momentum it's just... crap. No need to WD for the most part to edgehog due to upB either.
I can see using it at mid-range when approaching to mindgame a little but... the slow...

Also, when do you Dsmash? I know it must have some uses, but damn I can't figure them out.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

I wouldn't recommend using wavedashing to approach. Bowser takes nine frames to become airborne, and then lags for 10 frames upon dodging into the ground, meaning the whole wavedash takes a good third of a second to complete (60/20=3).

As for how it can be used, it's mostly just a spacing tool, for those times when you just need Bowser to scoot backwards a little bit without turning around.

Down smash can be used to cover options when down-throw tech chasing, and might be able to lead into other things vs. fast-fallers at low percents. It out-prioritizes the spacie's up-B moves when they are used to recover straight up, which means it can be used as the most obnoxious edge-guarding tool ever vs. spacie mains under certain circumstances. And finally, it can be used to read your opponent as a match begins. If you start directly above a Fox main, for instance, your opponent may try to up-air you right off the bat. If you down-smash immediately, though, their plan will backfire and they'll be left at a disadvantage. I've seen DJ Nintendo and WarriorKnight do this a few times.

 

[Uncivilized Elk]

Oh cool, thanks for the info. Does it outprioritize a lot of upBs and up-airs, or just a few? I've never even thought of using it on platforms to bait people into it.