Q&A The Bowser Questions and Advice Thread

[PNaleek]

Bowser has such a good falcon game... it's not even funny.

But Falcon can **** him too.

 

[KirbyKaze]

How useful is Bowser's Nair?

 

[omnibus2]

How useful is Bowser's Nair?

IMO, not really. It's range is just terrible, and it has poor knockback.

 

[DJ Nintendo]

Bowser's nair is mad good. I would say its one of his lifesaver moves because it helps him get out of troublesome situations since the move lasts for a bit of time. I use it alot and for various situations, even edgeguarding. It has good priority and I take advantage of the knockback it has. Its extremely useful if you know when and how to use it effectively. Its especially useful against characters like Falco because it will help you help you get around through Falco's lasers and disrupt his combos. It can also hit a character who's coming down from above you.

 

[omnibus2]

Bowser's nair is mad good. I would say its one of his lifesaver moves because it helps him get out of troublesome situations since the move lasts for a bit of time. I use it alot and for various situations, even edgeguarding. It has good priority and I take advantage of the knockback it has. Its extremely useful if you know when and how to use it effectively. Its especially useful against characters like Falco because it will help you help you get around through Falco's lasers and disrupt his combos. It can also hit a character who's coming down from above you.

In that case, disregard my previous post.

I just thought it has weak knockback, so your opponents usually just recover and smack you back. DJ Nintendo, are there any bad habits bowsers tend to do? I play him for fun against other low tier characters such as donkey kong, and I do alright, but any advice is appreciated.

 

[DJ Nintendo]

In that case, disregard my previous post.

I just thought it has weak knockback, so your opponents usually just recover and smack you back. DJ Nintendo, are there any bad habits bowsers tend to do? I play him for fun against other low tier characters such as donkey kong, and I do alright, but any advice is appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v875rGhWcNk

I'm gonna use the beginning of this match as an example. One of the bad habits Bowser players have is not knowing how to defend themselves properly when the chance is given to them. I know Bowser's regular shield sucks and he's combo food but there's times when zero to deaths or heavy damage combos can be avoided. The first stock of that match shouldn't have been like that. The Bowser looked like he panicked after getting down throwed when a random uair came outta nowhere. At :25 after Falco up-tilted his shield, he remained there regular shielding while Falco stepped back for a second then approached with lasers. Bowser should have jumped away and landed behind Falco while doing his claw for a reverse Tomahawk. Falco seeing Bowser jump away from his laser to nair approach and landing almost on top of him would make him shield to avoid damage from an aerial move from Bowser. Although he wouldn't have expected the reverse claw. Now lets say Falco spot-dodged instead or knew the reverse claw was coming. He would've just shined Bowser from his laggy claw and tried to do a combo outta the shine. So for the Bowser to further protect himself from another combo just in case his claw wouldn't have worked, he would get ready to DI the shine so the Falco can't follow up after or at least follow up with a heavy combo. If
the Bowser's reaction isn't quick enough, instead of staying in his regular shield (which was already low), he could have light shielded instead. Then the worst thing is he'll probably get grabbed or he can try and roll away.

Thats what Bowser mains must do or characters in general, but especially Bowser. Have a plan and have a backup plan and another backup plan behind your previous backup plan just in case. Bowser is a mindgame character who requires the user to have not only an extreme amount of mindgames, but also have quick reaction time and know pretty much everything about Bowser. Since Bowser is easy to destroy, having great defensive skills and reaction time are the most important things with him. Unfortunately most Bowser players don't have those with him or have it down as much with him =( Although its understandable because Bowser is a very tough character to use, especially at high level play. Even I get ***** sometimes lol. But thats why WarriorKnight and I are here to help our fellow Bowser players =)

 

[TheGoat]

Thanks a bunch DJ! I will work on my defensive skills and try to recognize situations and respond correctly. I'm a nub, but I can upload a few bowser vids after I go and record some more. I see how bowser relies heavily on mindgames-at my point in learning however, I have to learn bowser himself a little more, and then once I master him I can focus more heavily on mindgames. Thanks again

 

[DJ Nintendo]

My sexy set with Lambchops using my Bowser of Love:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSJE17bQAwA

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

I did not see a social thread so I will post this here.

I wish to invite bowser mains and bowser secondaries alike to this group...
Negligible tier mains unite!
Please join if you have not .

 

[TheGoat]

I did not see a social thread so I will post this here.

I wish to invite bowser mains and bowser secondaries alike to this group...
Negligible tier mains unite!
Please join if you have not .

Bowser is not negligible. I appreciate your invite but I maintain that ssbm bowser is too cool to be denoted in such a demeaning manner. I say future top tier group suits him better.

 

[Seikend]

Around what percentages is mario dthrow>fsmash unescapable?

What should I be doing to escape it?

EDIT: Question 2:

Full jump fair waveland. Is it worth learning to do consistently? I think it's pretty neat, waveland goes surprisingly far.

 

[Euclid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKG7tGADyzU#t=1m37s

How do you do this? UpB to ledge immediately like that? I keep trying it and falling off the stage.

 

[Seikend]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKG7tGADyzU#t=1m37s

How do you do this? UpB to ledge immediately like that? I keep trying it and falling off the stage.

After doing your UpB, instead of holding right, you only want to lean it a little to the right. I find the easiest way is to hold the control stick in the upper right notch.

Since I'm terrible at describing things, here's what I mean:

And vice versa for doing this to the left.

 

[Euclid]

Your way is genius! I woulda never thought of that for some reason lol. Thanks mucho.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I wonder how long that avatar will last, Eroticus.

 

[_Rated D.R.K_]

Thanks Bowsers for the thread.I'm an average Bowser player from New York who is trying to be above-average(lol) and this Q-A thread is really helping me to become a better Bowser and a better player.

 

[Seikend]

Thanks Bowsers for the thread.I'm an average Bowser player from New York who is trying to be above-average(lol) and this Q-A thread is really helping me to become a better Bowser and a better player.

To be honest the bowser boards could do with as many new players as possible, it's kind of dead haha

But yeah, hope to see you around more

 

[Phiddlesticks]

Full jump fair waveland. Is it worth learning to do consistently? I think it's pretty neat, waveland goes surprisingly far.

i feel like its worth it, especially since its honestly not that hard to do. at low/mid percents the waveland after a fullhop fair puts you in a way better position for a tech chase/edgeguard, and if they miss the tech you can even like jab reset to whatever

also upthrow/klaw fthrow lead into full hop fair pretty well depending on the character

 

[Seikend]

So. The bowser boards are pretty inactive and looks pretty run down. My question is, what do us, the bowser players, need to do to sort it out?

Do we need a forum specific mod? Updated guide? Social thread?

I don't know, I just feel like it's about time we actually had something organised around here XD

 

[_Rated D.R.K_]

I agree Seikend, Maybe we should update a guide maybe........

 

[Seikend]

I agree Seikend, Maybe we should update a guide maybe........

You mean with things like this?

I'll slowly be working my way through the whole moveset. All are at 1/3 speed.

And yeah. I think we could neaten up the guide a bit too. Most of the info is there, it's just a little messy.

And I'll be writing a FAQ and Fortresshogging guide soon so watch this space.

 

[_Rated D.R.K_]

Awesome, can't wait.

 

[Seikend]

http://rapidshare.com/files/428686599/Animated_Gifs.zip
http://rapidshare.com/files/428689576/Bowser_frames.zip WARNING: BIG FILE. 220MB Zip File, uncompressed files are over 2GB.

Top link is the gifs for all bowser attacks, grabs and dodges (airdodge, roll, sidestep) at 1/3 speed.
Bottom link is the individual frames for all attacks, grabs, dodges and /SOME/ of the edge options. I'll be honest, i got tired of making it. I'll get back to it eventually, but it's very dull :/.

It'd be great if someone could upload all the gifs individually, and make a frame data thread with it and the data in the bowser guide. I can't really do it now (internet issues) but if it no one else does it sometime soon I will do it /eventually/.

 

[Seikend]

So here's the thing.

How many Bowser players are there out there, that would be up for getting some discussion going on around here?

I've got hitbox images sorted, could write an updated fortresshogging guide, and we /could/ have a social thread, discuss matchups, stages etc. Sure, there might not be anything new to discuss, but we could definetely do with an updated match up guide, instead of people having to scroll through 30 pages or whatever to get information. A lot of things are "well known", but not really documented properly at all.

But I don't want to do any work if y'know, no one actually cares. So, is there any interest in getting a revival of the bowser boards going? Even if it's just to say you'd be up for a social board and contributing to general discussion, say so. If there's interest, we probably should do something.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

im interested

 

[Hatacatan]

I'm nterested in those things, but can't contribute anything much valuable.

Oh, well, maybe this... When fortresshogging, Bowser can grab the ledge both sides until frame 49. Figured it out in Dolphin. ;-)
After that frame you only can grab the ledge facing it.

 

[ChivalRuse]

There are still people who play this character?

 

[Seikend]

Apparently.



Very nice Hatacatan =P. Stuff like that is the sort of thing I'm personally interested in.

We should probably get a social thread started to get this sort of discussion going. As far as I know, the Bowser boards don't have a dedicated mod, but we could ask Teczero to get a social thread stickied for now.

If one of you want to get that sorted out you can, else I'll do it eventually if no one else does.


aaand, for the Bowser guide. Do we just want KevinM to update the current guide with the hitbox gifs and any extra info, or do we create a new guide?

 

[TheGoat]

So. The bowser boards are pretty inactive and looks pretty run down. My question is, what do us, the bowser players, need to do to sort it out?

Do we need a forum specific mod? Updated guide? Social thread?

I don't know, I just feel like it's about time we actually had something organised around here XD

a social thread might help just to talk about whatever bowser stuff

So here's the thing.

How many Bowser players are there out there, that would be up for getting some discussion going on around here?

I've got hitbox images sorted, could write an updated fortresshogging guide, and we /could/ have a social thread, discuss matchups, stages etc. Sure, there might not be anything new to discuss, but we could definetely do with an updated match up guide, instead of people having to scroll through 30 pages or whatever to get information. A lot of things are "well known", but not really documented properly at all.

But I don't want to do any work if y'know, no one actually cares. So, is there any interest in getting a revival of the bowser boards going? Even if it's just to say you'd be up for a social board and contributing to general discussion, say so. If there's interest, we probably should do something.

If these boards were more active I would visit more, but to be honest I don't main bowser, because I don't have the time to commit to playing a low tier character and getting good. I do play bowser for fun a lot though.

 

[phish-it]

Looking forward to it, Seikend.

 

[Jonas]

So here's the thing.

How many Bowser players are there out there, that would be up for getting some discussion going on around here?

I'd like to. I stopped playing him because I got raepd by all my friends, but I'm kinda getting back into him. I probably won't be able to contribute with a lot though :/

 

[Seikend]

What do you call fortresshogging when you tilt the control stick? Tilted fortresshog? Slow fortresshog? Creating the video and text guide but not sure what to call it.

 

[Jonas]

There's three kinds of Fortresshogging that I know of:

1. Sloped fortresshog. We could also call this auto fortressing, since Bowser does it himself as long as you point him in the right direction. Works on sloped edges derp derp

2. Teeter fortresshog. He doesn't really need to teeter as long as you're close enough to the edge, but it makes it easier to not mess up and die.

3. Regular fortresshog, or timed fortresshog. This one needs to be timed, with Bowser facing away from the edge.

Is it one of these three you're talking about?

 

[Seikend]

No, there's a fourth kind which isn't in MagnuM's fortresshogging video guide. It's been mentioned a few times in the forums, but isn't well known really.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214367

Basically, you can control the speed of the fortress by how much you tilt the control stick. If you go slow enough over the edge, you'll grab the ledge, regardless of what way you're facing, or what part of the UpB you're in.

Holding the control stick diagonally up is the easiest way to do it, but you can also just tilt the control stick a little.

That thread gives a pretty simple description of it, I'm hoping to explain it more properly in a video with examples. But I have no idea what to call it :/.

 

[Hatacatan]

Yup, Seikend is right. It can be done facing either direction until frame 49 - after that frame the ending animation starts and Bowser can only grab the ledge facing towards it.

I'd call it slow fortresshog.

 

[Jonas]

Ah I see, that's pretty neat. It doesn't seem much practical though because you have to go slow (seems faster to just run to the edge and use teeter fortresshog), but I'd love to see a video

 

[Seikend]

Ah I see, that's pretty neat. It doesn't seem much practical though because you have to go slow (seems faster to just run to the edge and use teeter fortresshog), but I'd love to see a video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JndHdWYgeo

I made a quick little video, but really only as a first draft. Just want to see what you guys think need to be done. In hindsight, the slides with the text and controller and pretty messy, and I could have added more general applications of it... and Hatacan, I wanted to add the frame thing to the video guide but I didn't know how to phrase it without just making a really wordy slide.

Makng videos isn't really a skill of mine haha. If anyone else wants to try and make it, I can send you the video file with the fortresshogging, and can record any other things you want. Otherwise, I'll just redo this one at some point.

 

[Hatacatan]

It is actually pretty fast if you slow the fortress down right before reaching the ledge, not earlier. The faster you want it to be, the harder it becomes.

It is explained and demonstrated very well in your vid, Seikend, good work!

 

[KevinM]

You can do it pretty simply at full speed.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Is Bowser vs Yoshi really in Yoshi's favor? I feel like Bowser might have an edge. Lol.