Q&A The Bowser Questions and Advice Thread

[the muted smasher]

Well its harder to grab bowser in teams because his huge size makes throwing him him to slow most the time and he's got that non sense shield game

 

[RetroGamersGuru]

Well its harder to grab bowser in teams because his huge size makes throwing him him to slow most the time and he's got that non sense shield game

True, true.

 

[gmBottles]

I always imagined that he would be too big for doubles. I feel like it would be way too easy to get in the way of both the enemy and your teammate.

 

[the muted smasher]

When I team with someone I always tell them don't worry about me just rush them down and I'll have peach players dash attack through my shield so I can cover their whiff or I'll have a fox shffl through my shield. Size just makes it easier to space sometimes.

And unless it's the ics who can really attack bowser's shield with a fox ddi ng behind him?

 

[EddyBearr]

I think Bowser is better in doubles than in singles. There's too much going on to shut him down, so Bowser is able to slap a few opponents and get more up-b's in.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Retreating fair and f-tilt are the staple anti-approach options from what I've seen with DJ Nintendo. But d-smash has very high priority, deals good damage by itself, and can lead to combos and tech chases. If you have good reactions, is it worth trying to use d-smash regularly to beat out shuffled approaches like Fox/Falcon's nair?

 

[minesofmoria]

I agree. Bowser tho

 

[RetroGamersGuru]

Retreating fair and f-tilt are the staple anti-approach options from what I've seen with DJ Nintendo. But d-smash has very high priority, deals good damage by itself, and can lead to combos and tech chases. If you have good reactions, is it worth trying to use d-smash regularly to beat out shuffled approaches like Fox/Falcon's nair?

I don't think so. The hitbox doesn't come out until frame 14, so you would have to make a read to get most out of it. Stopping approaches as a form of punishing is still available, but it's not reaction-based.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Fair is pretty slow too, when you factor in Bowser's sluggish jump speed. I guess the only fast moves that Bowser has are up-b out of shield and f-tilt.

 

[the muted smasher]

Up tilt hits frame 7

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yeah but it seems like more of a floaty killer move than an anti-approach move.

 

[Kalimari]

Uptilt is a decent anti air. I like it against falcon
it's so laggy though and not worth relying on

 

[RetroGamersGuru]

I personally prefer Utilt against floaties myself. FFers can just come back and punish the endlag based on experience. Maybe Nair as a counterattack?

 

[gmBottles]

I've been trying to incorporate nair but I haven't found much use for it. How do you guys use it?

To continue the discussion, I think uptilt is probably not that good of a choice against fastfallers. Like @ RetroGamersGuru said, they can just come back and punish the massive ending lag the move has. I prefer to use SH upair myself.

 

[RetroGamersGuru]

I've been trying to incorporate nair but I haven't found much use for it. How do you guys use it?

To continue the discussion, I think uptilt is probably not that good of a choice against fastfallers. Like @ RetroGamersGuru said, they can just come back and punish the massive ending lag the move has. I prefer to use SH upair myself.

I've seen DJ Nintendo use it at BH4 against Fox to cover him while trying to land and counter the Fox. He then followed him and proceeded to use a Koopa Klaw followup (specifically Forward Klaw to Back Klaw for the kill). I really think that it's more or less a counter move since this use brought the most success from what I've seen. I've not been able to use it as an adequate followup since it doesn't always continue combos and doesn't always setup for a kill or edgeguard from what I've seen. I still need to experiment more with Nair since it still is one of his better moves still.

 

[gmBottles]

I've seen DJ Nintendo use it at BH4 against Fox to cover him while trying to land and counter the Fox. He then followed him and proceeded to use a Koopa Klaw followup (specifically Forward Klaw to Back Klaw for the kill). I really think that it's more or less a counter move since this use brought the most success from what I've seen. I've not been able to use it as an adequate followup since it doesn't always continue combos and doesn't always setup for a kill or edgeguard from what I've seen. I still need to experiment more with Nair since it still is one of his better moves still.

Oh, I thought we were talking about moves to use in a combo. Yeah, I see what you mean now though, I agree.
I don't think nair is a bad move, but using it feels awkward to me, and it's difficult to use in a combo. I know in PM waveland forward nair works, but I haven't really tried it much in Melee.

 

[the muted smasher]

I prefer the idea of side-b into a grab release up throw in a place where a ffers will have to di to get re grabbed or land on a platform where you'd have put them with the side b anyhow. Would work at any percent just based on where You get the side-b

 

[gmBottles]

I prefer to do the grab release if they are at a lower percent so I can build damage faster. I try to get as many followups off the grab as possible, usually doing dthrow and going for reads on reaction.

 

[gmBottles]

This is something I've been testing out a bit and it seems to work on most characters, but if someone can correct me here that'd be swell.
Jab to utilt seems to be a true combo, and a very useful one at that. If you can DI out of it nobody that I've played against has done it so I don't know. Or if this was already known of before, what are some good uses for it, or situations where it is useful?

 

[Hunybear]

This is something I've been testing out a bit and it seems to work on most characters, but if someone can correct me here that'd be swell.
Jab to utilt seems to be a true combo, and a very useful one at that. If you can DI out of it nobody that I've played against has done it so I don't know. Or if this was already known of before, what are some good uses for it, or situations where it is useful?

You can pretty easily smash DI out. I like jab up-b and if they pop up on a platform you can koopa claw tech chase. If they do DI wrong I see jab up-tilt being swagtastic

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

This is something I've been testing out a bit and it seems to work on most characters, but if someone can correct me here that'd be swell.
Jab to utilt seems to be a true combo, and a very useful one at that. If you can DI out of it nobody that I've played against has done it so I don't know. Or if this was already known of before, what are some good uses for it, or situations where it is useful?

it's legit. i use it pretty often on light characters like peach or jiggs. highly HIGHLY unlikely that someone would sdi out imo

 

[Kalimari]

jab uptilt sounds baller as ****. gonna start using that against floaties^^

 

[Sempai]

I like to drop in every once in a while to see how Bowser is progressing, I like the tech fellas

 

[gmBottles]

I like to drop in every once in a while to see how Bowser is progressing, I like the tech fellas

Progressing slowly but surely! I'm doing my best to advance the King Koopa's metagame as much as I can, but lately I haven't been able to play much but hopefully I can start working at it again soon!

 

[Synnett]

While playing against a fox, after throwing him out of the stage, I accidentally used my down smash. Somehow, it hit the fox and he died. He was coming from under the stage (battlefield). That would need some further testing, but it could accentuate Boozer's supremacy over fox and falco. Jab uptilt works wonder btw.

Another thing... Often, when facing marth, you try to grab dat ledge to see him fall to his death, but he still lands on the ground. Immediately press b if under 100% He will panic and put on his shield, but when you "come back", you spike him out of the stage. There you can just fair or other stuff. It works every single time, they always do the same mistake.

 

[Hunybear]

While playing against a fox, after throwing him out of the stage, I accidentally used my down smash. Somehow, it hit the fox and he died. He was coming from under the stage (battlefield). That would need some further testing, but it could accentuate Boozer's supremacy over fox and falco. Jab uptilt works wonder btw.

Another thing... Often, when facing marth, you try to grab dat ledge to see him fall to his death, but he still lands on the ground. Immediately press b if under 100% He will panic and put on his shield, but when you "come back", you spike him out of the stage. There you can just fair or other stuff. It works every single time, they always do the same mistake.

that sounds awesome! can you record either of them or show in a match?

 

[gmBottles]

The thing with dsmash is known, I've seen Gimpyfish and others use it back in the day. It's not bad, but I'm not 100% sure if I would ever rely on it in a match. Pretty situational from what I can tell. Definitely useful though, please don't think I'm trying to shut the idea down lmao

I haven't heard anything about the Marth MU thing though, if that's legit then I need to see it, that MU is soooo hard. However, to me it sounds like it might just be something that the Marth you played just kept falling for, but I could be wrong.

 

[Synnett]

Well, it works for plenty of other characters too. I was just trying to come back safely on the stage and I spiked him into oblivion. Pure accident, but everyone was like "omg that technique \o/" Maybe it can pierce through the shield too... Gtg investigate.

Edit: In that tournee I joined, I was matched against a Marth, a Sheik and a Peach. It was sad. ;_; You can't combo Peach btw.

 

[gmBottles]

Wait, was it just the hit of the getup attack when you're moving back toward the ledge? If so, that is known and is used to edgeguard spacies all the time.

 

[Synnett]

Yep, that was it. But ok then, at least I find the tricks myself at least. o_O

When facing Links, spam your flames, for Peach: jump under her and fastfall + uptilt. She will down tilt, out of range, and you will destroy her with your move. (You'll still get hit, but on the platform)

What do you need to learn? xD

Meanwhile, when I jump out of the ledge, my boozer do a 360 and I can't attack. How do you bair out of the ledge and land at the edge, then cancel-grab? I can't pull it off.

 

[Kalimari]

dmash under the lip on battlefield is cool against spacies. usually they eat the first few hits and get spun out under the stage but def jank and not reliable. id just back air or flame

 

[Kalimari]

Meanwhile, when I jump out of the ledge, my boozer do a 360 and I can't attack. How do you bair out of the ledge and land at the edge, then cancel-grab? I can't pull it off.

I'm sorry could you rephrase this? im having a hard time understanding your question

 

[Synnett]

When you press "x" when you are grabbing the ledge, Bowser jumps. I've seen people doing attacks when jumping out of the ledge, but on my side I can't do anything, dunno why. That's what I ask.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTbdXRcOAX4

~1:25

 

[Plunder]

When you press "x" when you are grabbing the ledge, Bowser jumps. I've seen people doing attacks when jumping out of the ledge, but on my side I can't do anything, dunno why. That's what I ask.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTbdXRcOAX4

~1:25

no no nono

You have to let go of ledge and then immediately DJ and Bair while moving forward

He didn't ledge cancel anything it's a just a regular L-cancel then WD off to ledge grab.

edit: at I see the edge cancel bair you are referring to later in the vid.

 

[Synnett]

Hey guys, I have a question. While practicing, I started doing something out of the blue from the ledge. I fast fall, do a quick jump and use upB and come back on the stage, while the lag hits the other dude from below. I've started using it in matches and it's half reliable. Is it good at all? I mean, the opponents had a hard time hiting me, inless they have disjointed hitboxes.

 

[Plunder]

Hey guys, I have a question. While practicing, I started doing something out of the blue from the ledge. I fast fall, do a quick jump and use upB and come back on the stage, while the lag hits the other dude from below. I've started using it in matches and it's half reliable. Is it good at all? I mean, the opponents had a hard time hiting me, inless they have disjointed hitboxes.

I use this a lot too. It's surprisingly hard to punish as long as you get the most horizontal velocity during the Up-B (use only as a mix up, don't become predictable). Careful on some characters that have strong fast moves, like Puff < If you don't get her with the strong hitbox she can rest you. Many other characters can CC > punish as well. Against Bowser most good player will attempt to anticipate a ledge attack and Psheild it or CC and punish.....so be aware of this since it can cover Up-B as well.

 

[Synnett]

Hey guys, I have another question...

I have realized that Bowser's get up attack (when you trip, fall on the ground and attack with B) are simply fantastic. They deal great damage, one of them, the swipe, can hit twice and they are useful for doing combos. The question is: Do you know any consistent way to trip and fall on the floor? I've been mildly succesfull when wavedashing off a platform, and it would be fun to be able to do this more often.

 

[Plunder]

Hey guys, I have another question...

I have realized that Bowser's get up attack (when you trip, fall on the ground and attack with B) are simply fantastic. They deal great damage, one of them, the swipe, can hit twice and they are useful for doing combos. The question is: Do you know any consistent way to trip and fall on the floor? I've been mildly succesfull when wavedashing off a platform, and it would be fun to be able to do this more often.

The main problem is that there are ~26 frames before you can do a "get up" anything (or so I was told). That missed tech is react-able, so you have to cycle through that vulnerable time before you can try a get up attack. It hurts that Bowser other options are react-able too by most of the cast, this is why you almost never want to miss a tech.

Also unless they are coming from the optimal side Bowser's Get up attack is highly projected and react-able (only one variation from one side is fast enough to beat reaction)

 

[Synnett]

Alright, I'll try to use it when I'm lucky enough to end up on the ground. I won't spam it tho, as it serves as a great pressure, everyone fell for it so far.

Also guys, do you know where I could find frame data for side B, along with a gif showing the hitbox and the grab-box? I'm having a hard time hitting anything with side B in the air, even the claw animation seems to clip through everything lol.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

You can find hitboxes and frame data in Seikend's thread, "Bowser's Hitboxes and Frame Data UPDATED: 20/01/11," which is stickied at the top of this Bowser section.