The Botanical Gardens of the Mushroom Kingdom

[Moozle]

I've known he won for like weeks, I've just been waiting for footage. Did he use Peach vs Mr. R?

Yepp he did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hHtNdfnBIY

Edit: I WASTED MY 1337TH POST! CURSES!

 

[Eddie G]

Alright, if everyone insists. xD

Leon is a magnificent Peach no doubt and his accomplishment is definitely the first for a player of this character, but I am still not convinced that he is by any means the "best Peach". In fact I believe such a tossed-around title is stretching the credibility of the standards we set to make such a declaration. "Best Peach in Europe" is a much more realistic claim to make, and one I would agree to with no hesitation.

The reason I even bring this up is because of the videos I watched of him playing. Mr. R is a fantastic Marth player and arguably among the top 5 Marths in the world, but I question his knowledge of the Peach matchup after watching his matches against Leon and comparing them to how some of the Marths I've played handle the matchup (and other matches of the two characters in general).

- First off, why would Mr. R not counterpick Brinstar or a stage that would present him with a similar type of advantage by boosting his central stage control? Anyone who knows the matchup down to a T would realize that Brinstar grants Marth an excellent increase in central stage control, survivability via lava, and the advantage of killing at even lower percents than usual. Peach also has decent stage control on Brinstar but not even close to what I just pointed out. I've been sent to losers and eliminated in a different tournament by the same Marth player who (thanks to his proficiency on Battlefield in the matchup which prompted me to ban it instead) utilized the stage for it's worth entirely. With this kind of counterpicking advantage and possible dilemma to put the Peach player in, it makes this one of the "for sure" matchups for Peach to absolutely win the first match if she does not want to be backed into a world of trouble (similar to MK). But...as a Marth, keeping the matches on Smashville where Peach will have a closer shot of going 50/50 with you? That seems odd to me.

- Second, his spacing was spot on, but he left a lot of gaping holes in his transition between offense and defense that Leon didn't manage to capitalize on as much as he could have. If a Marth is going nuts on you as Peach with spacing full jumped fairs over and over again, there's his mistake right there...the period right between his first fair and his followup dropping fair/nair.

What does Peach do in this situation? She has a few solid answers to a Marth's said telegraphed "aggressive defense". She can shield with a turnip in hand and forward glidetoss a turnip upward to nail Marth during the small opening between his aerials, and if he chooses to airdodge instead...all the better for Peach to punish. Even a full jump toad will suffice if the Marth appears reliant on his telegraphed tactic. There are even periods in which Peach can simply roll in Marth's direction during his opening, shield the second aerial (which will not be in sweetspot range anymore due to Peach's roll distance), and punish via grab, jab, or anything else that is safe against a possible perfect shield from Marth upon landing from his aerial.

Leon took simply way too much punishment from Mr. R's bread-and-butter tactics to really convince me that he was playing the matchup in a knowledgeable manner instead of playing on the fly and banking on the fact that Mr. R had little to respond with once Leon got through his initial defensive scheme.

If someone is going to be called the undisputed "Best Peach of the World" (which is what I picked up from the "Best Peach" claim); they must know their **** for the toughest matchups and execute against their opponent's openings more than Leon did against Mr. R. From what I saw, I have a hard time believing Leon would have the same result against the likes of MikeHAZE, Neo, or any above average Marth who absolutely knows how to exploit the matchup, at least...not with that caliber of play.

There you have it. He did good and I'm proud of his accomplishment, but the outlandish claims should cease. Leon is not the Best Peach, he is among the handful of us who are still trying to accelerate beyond the plateau that we all currently reside on.

 

[LoliLovesRain]

KB...that doesnt even make you sound like a ******* >_> you said everything in such a mature fashion no one can say anything sheesh sooo boring xD

 

[Purple]

It really doesn't sound bad. It just sounds like you're using reason to base that he's not the best peach.

However there is one thing I'm curious of. Has any other peach beaten a Marth of that caliber?

 

[Razmakazi]

leon would be so much better if he'd calm down.

the only reason he got hit so much was because he was trying to jump and float back on stage so much instead of saving his float and recovering with more patience.

oh, and if he's getting ***** by double fh fairs why would he continually try to fair through, consecutively.

it's just not gonna work.

ooooh, and when marth is far away or offstage, he never rly pulled turnips.

that's just it though. he just needs to calm down and fix his defense haha.

 

[Peachkid]

i wish my rants were as eloquent as KB's descriptive critiques rather than this


BWHA WAHHAHAHAHAH /rant'd


but yeah good read

 

[Airgemini]

Yeah KB it wasn't even that bad.
You're a perfect of conveying your opinion in a non-flaming respectable way.

 

[White-Peach]

I think it belongs to him. The openings you speak of, you have to know that they were sitting there waiting to see what the other did. I mean, Leon planted the seed of FEAR in him when he shoulderpad UpSmashed his first stock on game 1. Several times he got very good reads that lead to KO's and gimps. At the same time, he was conscious of Dolphin Slash (and was still hit by it), but still, the FEAR of using it meant that no, the marth did not use it at every chance. He's not a mindreader. But he does know that Leon has baited and tore him a new hole for it. On several occasions.

So no, I don't think it's fair to take the title away from him just because it doesn't fit your standard. To be the best Peach and for his win to show up Ankoku's list means [insert player here ____ or M2K] had to be there and had to lose to him? That's utter bull****. Just because he doesn't play the same way you play or the same people you play doesnt mean he didnt just win a large tournament, primarily using PEACH (and the secondary wasnt even MK/Snake). Give him his title until someone can take it away. It's like holding a competition, and saying that there would be no first place this year. So you give him 2nd even though he won and did something nobody else has done. That's bull****.

 

[Metatitan]

While that may be true White, it's not necessarily fair to hand a title to someone who played against people without prior knowledge to the matchup.

That being said, I'm a pretty big fan of Leon's peach and I'd like to see a lot more of it from the future.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Leon......

Looks like I have a rival.

 

[Metatitan]

Congrats on 5th today Dark, who'd you beat?

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I understand where your coming from KB. If you watched Leon's other videos, you would see that he plays them all differently. Even if they both played the matchup incorrectly, Leon still won the tournament in both singles & doubles. He beat a lot of top European players. I do agree with you though, he's not necessarily the most technical player, but he plays smartly. Isn't there and old saying from melee? (smarts > technical skills)

 

[Dark.Pch]

I got 7th, not 5th. I could have gotten 4th if I did not make a false shield decision on in a close game for game one and then SD in a close game on my last stock.

I beat a Link player, Then I had to play this dude name problem, a snake player that is ranked 10th on the NY power rankings. I 2 stocked his meta and think I did the same to his snake.

Then had to play Ally almost beating him. Ally could not kill me. I was alive all three stocks I belive game one till like 170. I wanted to trying a lil pivot mindgame on ally, but he did not do what I was expecting so ate a Ftilt at nearly 200 and lost. Game 2, I forgot what happen. That was also close. He just got the last hit. Ally was giving me lots of props for nearly taking him out and said he has never played a Peach such as mine. Me and Him were bot doing some crazy **** to each other and people were getting hyped watching. And My DI was amazing. Oh, and the turnip juggles ***** snake in the air so hard. I got alot of damage off him when he was in the air coming back to the stage. This is the first time I played him in tourny and proud I did this good. Ally was telling me I could of had him,But I was getting a lil predictable. I felt it too. And it's the same problem I been talking about for a while playing all typical and stuff. Hate that about myself.

Then I had to play this campy meta knight named fire. He used alot of tournado and up-B. He was playing gay. Game one I am beating this dude and I get a random SD. That blow my game up. Though I am brining it back, some attack killed me on staged and I died. Game 2 we play on the same stage (BF) and I beat him. He had a lead and I brought t back to win Cause he glided attack to a platform but fell off, and landed a sweetspotted upsmash. Game three goes on Lylat, and I die while he has like 58%. He then SD cause he tornado and Died not making it back to the stage. Around the time we are at mid % and I pick up a bomb near him while he tornados. I was still the pull animation so I could not block in time. So we both get blown up and the score is one stock each at 0 damage. Then I noticed something about this meta as the match goes on. He loves to roll backwards. Once I caught that (he was winning a lil cause of this habit of his) I started abusing it. baiting/ waiting for tournados and smacking him out of it with Fsmash. Making me bring it back and take the set. I caught that habit of his at the last min. Cause mst of the time I was playing it cool waiting for nada and up-B I did not rush this dude at all and spamm turnips like no 2morrow. and also abused my turnip juggle on him.

Then I had to play tiny. He is the snake that I beat in winners finals but lost to him in losers finals at that tournament I got 3rd in Jan. He used TL. The game is close and I made a silly attemped out of shield and I got upsmash Game 2 was the same way and I SD on my last stock. Stupid annyonmg problem kick in against tiny that I just lose it for no reason when I am doinmg fine. And I was hacking tiny both games.

Bur I finally placed in like 5 months. his tourny I used about 50% of what I know and how I am suppose to play. And I hardly do that. Now for the other 50% and I be good. But as long as I have this stupid habit, this is gonna happen to me all the time.

Oh well. I was on fire today and daddy is slowly coming back to his prime like he was last year. I think I Got my title back for Best Peach in this region. And maybe this side of the USA (EC) So many kept saying this to me and I was like "Idk" I think Ally felt that way when we played. After the match he told me something like that. I forgot. I was tired. And If I am not, then I'll just get that title back too.

Then I am gonna have to go for 1-3 best Peach in the USA. Be nice to have that title back as well. Kinda miss it.

 

[Purple]

I thought you were 1-3 Peaches in the US. You seem to be one of the mots popular ;o

 

[Dark.Pch]

Me being popular and famous for this character is something I don't let reflect The Peach that I am and do the talking for me. I let my results do it. Last year before I did my 2 month retirement I was 1-3 best. I come back a mess and still somewhat suffering with all that till this day. and my results have not been all that. Kyon and KB place much higher in thier tournies then I do in mines. So I am not top anymore. Same with Kyle and a few others. I was washed up.

Surprisingly I am still an icon when it comes to this character and hear my name alot when it comes to Peach. And some even thinking I am the best in the USA. I just tell them to look at my tourny results compared to the others in the USA. I don't come close to it. I don't let hype, me being famous or an icon with this charcter give me some titles as top. To me that means nothing. My results is what matters to me.

So if you hear things like that, I'm just famous and all that. it has nothing to do with my skill level, which has been bad at tournies for a while. I still find it wierd that people still say all this about me when I failed so hard many times this year.

 

[Eddie G]

I think it belongs to him. The openings you speak of, you have to know that they were sitting there waiting to see what the other did. I mean, Leon planted the seed of FEAR in him when he shoulderpad UpSmashed his first stock on game 1. Several times he got very good reads that lead to KO's and gimps. At the same time, he was conscious of Dolphin Slash (and was still hit by it), but still, the FEAR of using it meant that no, the marth did not use it at every chance. He's not a mindreader. But he does know that Leon has baited and tore him a new hole for it. On several occasions.

Yes, I'm already aware of that. But I digress, both players didn't play the matchup all that well, Leon just managed to wing it more efficiently. Leon is the better player in that set and at no point did I take away credit for him winning, hence my acknowledgment and praise for it at the beginning of my post.

So no, I don't think it's fair to take the title away from him just because it doesn't fit your standard. To be the best Peach and for his win to show up Ankoku's list means [insert player here ____ or M2K] had to be there and had to lose to him? That's utter bull****. Just because he doesn't play the same way you play or the same people you play doesnt mean he didnt just win a large tournament, primarily using PEACH (and the secondary wasnt even MK/Snake). Give him his title until someone can take it away. It's like holding a competition, and saying that there would be no first place this year. So you give him 2nd even though he won and did something nobody else has done. That's bull****.

My personal standards are set high, very high. But then again...if I'm going to ponder claiming someone to be "The Absolute Best Peach" in the world (again...which is what I picked up from the initial claim); why wouldn't my standards be high? Some just don't understand the magnitude of the claims in which they decide to just hand out like a basket of Bread Rolls at Texas Roadhouse.

As I pointed out in my previous post, I personally did not see anything from his Peach or his competition (although good...don't get me wrong, just the lack of matchup/stage exploitation) that would prompt me to claim him as the best Peach evar. Nothing that would set him apart from a handful of us who are easily at or comparable to his skill level based on visual analysis and overall consistency (yes...consistency, he won a regional sized tournament and he's ahead of the rest of us in that category, but his overall consistency is definitely comparable to the rest of the crowd). A difference of regional skill level/difference in specific matchup knowledge may be a possible factor, but that's something along the lines of a different topic altogether.

My point is: In my own personal view, for someone to truly be called the best of ANY character or the best at ANY game, they must truly be set apart from the rest of the competition. I have not let my Ken-esque standards lower since the days of 05-06 Melee. He proved that he was the best Melee player during his time by traveling to other parts of the world, defeating the best they had, and winning their large tournaments. And until a Peach player can do something comparable to that, and do well against the rest of the world's competition or at least more than in just own country (that includes Leon and the rest of us as well)...then no one can rightfully claim a **** thing as far as "best of ____ in the world" is concerned.

Leon is currently one step ahead of us with his recent accomplishment. But he is far from being the undisputed best. He, along with the rest of us, still have much to prove. I'm not lenient nor will I ever be when it comes to competition, but I will give props to whoever earns them...no questions asked. Capice?

 

[Dooms]

Wow, your debating skills are amazing. I wouldn't really call anyone the best peach right now, since there are so many choices haha. Just gotta wait till one has enough results to prove that they are the best!

 

[Mushyroom]

Bravo to this Leon guy a truly outstanding Peach player. Let all of us Peach players do our best. We all still have much to prove too.

 

[White-Peach]

Yes, I'm already aware of that. But I digress, both players didn't play the matchup all that well, Leon just managed to wing it more efficiently. Leon is the better player in that set and at no point did I take away credit for him winning, hence my acknowledgment and praise for it at the beginning of my post.

It isnt a matchup ratio where you determine who has the best chances based on the highest level of play, it's a set. A set that he won. That set happened to be the grand finals at a regional. It's like taking all of ADHD's wins against MK for naught because MK doesnt have a good item game. "Your wins don't count ADHD, winning this large event means nil because your opponent didnt know how to counter your character effectively. Your skill, while good, isn't up to my high standards. Being the first Diddy to win a large tournament doesn't make you the best Diddy. You have to beat everyone in the world to be considered the best, even if you're the only Diddy who managed to ever win a large tournament ever in the history of brawl. But good games though."

My personal standards are set high, very high. But then again...if I'm going to ponder claiming someone to be "The Absolute Best Peach" in the world (again...which is what I picked up from the initial claim); why wouldn't my standards be high? Some just don't understand the magnitude of the claims in which they decide to just hand out like a basket of Bread Rolls at Texas Roadhouse.

As I pointed out in my previous post, I personally did not see anything from his Peach or his competition (although good...don't get me wrong, just the lack of matchup/stage exploitation) that would prompt me to claim him as the best Peach evar. Nothing that would set him apart from a handful of us who are easily at or comparable to his skill level based on visual analysis and overall consistency (yes...consistency, he won a regional sized tournament and he's ahead of the rest of us in that category, but his overall consistency is definitely comparable to the rest of the crowd). A difference of regional skill level/difference in specific matchup knowledge may be a possible factor, but that's something along the lines of a different topic altogether.

My point is: In my own personal view, for someone to truly be called the best of ANY character or the best at ANY game, they must truly be set apart from the rest of the competition. I have not let my Ken-esque standards lower since the days of 05-06 Melee. He proved that he was the best Melee player during his time by traveling to other parts of the world, defeating the best they had, and winning their large tournaments. And until a Peach player can do something comparable to that, and do well against the rest of the world's competition or at least more than in just own country (that includes Leon and the rest of us as well)...then no one can rightfully claim a **** thing as far as "best of ____ in the world" is concerned.

Leon is currently one step ahead of us with his recent accomplishment. But he is far from being the undisputed best. He, along with the rest of us, still have much to prove. I'm not lenient nor will I ever be when it comes to competition, but I will give props to whoever earns them...no questions asked. Capice?

Just because you can't extract a replicable strategy or technique that lead to his victory doesnt mean he lacked something "legit" to earn him that win. As far as consistency, he was the same as anyone else PRIOR TO THIS EVENT. He made significant progress ahead of everyone else and became the first Peach to ever win a large brawl tournament. That makes him BETTER than everyone else. He is currently the only Peach capable of winning a large tournament. It makes him the BEST PEACH. I don't know why you have a disconnect between proving your can do something--and a title.

I understand it's your PERSONAL opinion that you have to jump through ridiculous hoops and over ridiculous hurdles to be considered the best of anything, but I guess that also means that there were never "best players of characters" like, Mewtwo or Zelda in melee because nobody flew around the world and won large tournaments with those characters, right?

This is my opinion. Leon, some guy I neither know nor have any personal affections to, is the best Peach by virtue of being the only Peach ever to win a large tournament, something nobody in the history of brawl has ever managed to do (and you know us *****es try **** hard to get our money to pay for all this beautiful weave.) I hardly think it's anything like handing out "a basket of Bread Rolls at Texas Roadhouse." If I had his address, I'd go right to Burger King, get a crown, and Sharpie all over that ***** BEST PEACH and send it right to his house. Because he deserves it.

Edit: I can't quote effectively :|

 

[Eddie G]

That's fine, and I respect your view. I still stand by my own though. He is not the best Peach...no one is at this point.

The "fly around the world and beat everyone" thing was merely an example to illustrate a sense of clear distinction between the "best of" something and the rest of the competition. One regional victory, in my opinion, does not prompt me to say the guy is the best, period. If he can win a couple more or even a national...then ding-ding we have a winner. The same applies to everyone. That is what I mean by "he is currently ahead in the race", because the situation is exactly that, nothing more. Titles seem to be synonymous with leniency nowadays.

I'll just agree to disagree.

 

[gantrain05]

honestly, after watching the matches of leons, i can say he's def a smart player, but he's not the best, if he was the best he wouldn't be getting 0-70'd by fairs and never ever shielding a single one, smarts are good, but its also good to be able to predict and punish, which i did not see alot of, i saw both players make their fair share of bad choices, im not taking away anything from leon, he's a great player, but we don't know who the best is at this point and it would be dumb to name someone the best peach because of one tourney result in a region most all of us have absolutely no experience in. for all we know he would get slumped over here, or maybe he would win big, all i know is that its too close of a game between the top peaches to just give out title of "best peach"

 

[TheBlossomingLily]

Back from a LONG internet break due to school work, ugh. (Though I DID get to go on a date yesterday. That makes up for a lot~)

KB (is it alright if I use that nickname too?), have you taken Debate class or something? But in all seriousness, I also doubt that Leon is the BEST of Peach players. Just among being one of the respectable ones.

And Kyle...I loved that match you posted. Beam Swords are FTW~ <3

 

[Dark.Pch]

Ok. I caught up with all this Leon stuff. Now this is my opinion on it.

First I wanna get out the way that people tend to give anything that is not USA a downgrade. I hear it all the time. Armarda was getting this when we was first brought up in the melee Peach boards back in the melee days. And people were downgrading him. Even top Melee Peach players. And look what happen. Armarda comes to the USA snd ***** it not once, but twice with Peach, doing stuff no top Melee Peach has done. The smash community is really stupid and needs to get off this nonsense. And People were saying Peach could not place high in a big tournament. Armarda went all Peach and look at what he did. Making the others look like morons for what they been saying.

Next thing I wanna get out is, people need to stop making excuses for when something happens related to this character all cause you just can't see it happening no matter what. This seriously needs to stop. This is one reason people seriously don't get better and lose.

"Guys, this Peach nearly beat M2K in tourny game three in brawl"

"Was M2K playing the match up right? Was he tired? etc. Something was up for that to happen. Cause there is no way that should be happening"

There is always some excuse. And this is what I am hearing right now with Leon. Also I would but money on the line that any Peach who was to go to where Leon is would not do what he did or win a big tourny there. Any Peach in the USA would not do what Leon did.

Leon does not waste time saying how hard a match up is, or make excuses for it. He know what his character is and what she can do. And realizes the pros/cons of Peach. And he does not let characters get to him.

Now for Leon being the best Peach, I'll give it to him. No one in brawl has done what he did. In the USA for a regional only 2 Peach players that placed decent. That was Edreese with 17th and me with 13th. Leon Just straight took his. And lets not make some excuse like "europe is not all that and etc"

Now for how he plays, He seems to rush in alot. which is risky and cost him alot. Thats something about leon I don't like. He needs to calm down.Cause that one thing screw up alot that he does. such as spacing and evasion. If he did that, be alright. Work up a defense game. Peach seriously needs it. And is seriously good at it. If he did that, he be a much better player than he already is. Only problem I see with him.

I would not mind talking to leon actually. I heard he has falco trouble.

But people really need to give the dude his credit. He is the best as of now.

 

[Eddie G]

I get what you mean Dark, I really do, but you and Gantrain pointed it out yourselves...both parts of the world are realistically ignorant of each others' skill levels and capabilities. For all we know Europe could stomp all of us flat, but at the same time we don't know if we'd be the ones stomping them flat. So with that being said, why would we claim someone from Europe to be the best Peach in general if we are all ignorant of the capabilities of his region in comparison with the rest of the world? That's like taking a wild stab in the dark. The Armada example, while inspirational, is not relevant to the discussion because no one can predict if the same would happen in Brawl. Again, I'm not saying Europe sucks, nor am I downgrading Leon's accomplishment...I'm only saying we just don't know enough to toss out any claims or titles at all.

What Leon proved by winning the tournament is not that he is the Best Peach in the world, but rather that he is the best Peach in Europe, because he won in Europe. If one is to claim that he is the best Peach on a worldly scale, then he must out-perform the rest of his character competition on said scale, or at least do more than just in his own region to gain such a tremendous title. I can't stress that point enough.

KB (is it alright if I use that nickname too?), have you taken Debate class or something?

Yes that's fine with me. :3 And no I have never taken debate class, I'm just moderately verbose and have picked up on debate "skills" naturally I guess. I'm nothing compared to some of the guys in the tactical discussion though. xD

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Next thing I wanna get out is, people need to stop making excuses for when something happens related to this character all cause you just can't see it happening no matter what. This seriously needs to stop. This is one reason people seriously don't get better and lose.

i agree

though if i john its usually legitimate =D However there are things that happen when we play that we cannot control. It happens, i just say w/e to the bad stuff and just think about how kickn rad the next match is gonna be

 

[TheBlossomingLily]

Ah. I find it ironic how this Leon guy won by taking aggressive risks even though most Peach players end up losing matches for those kind of risks, as small as they may be...

Maybe he had incredible spacing skills or something. XD

 

[Meru.]

I really don't like how many people watch European vids. It's like they only want to see the mistakes. The best players can look bad if you're only watching to pick out the flaws. This is not aimed to KB or anyone else, just saying.

Ah. I find it ironic how this Leon guy won by taking aggressive risks even though most Peach players end up losing matches for those kind of risks, as small as they may be...

Maybe he had incredible spacing skills or something. XD

He has, but you should also notice his near-perfect timing and great choice of options.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I get what you mean Dark, I really do, but you and Gantrain pointed it out yourselves...both parts of the world are realistically ignorant of each others' skill levels and capabilities. For all we know Europe could stomp all of us flat, but at the same time we don't know if we'd be the ones stomping them flat. So with that being said, why would we claim someone from Europe to be the best Peach in general if we are all ignorant of the capabilities of his region in comparison with the rest of the world? That's like taking a wild stab in the dark. The Armada example, while inspirational, is not relevant to the discussion because no one can predict if the same would happen in Brawl. Again, I'm not saying Europe sucks, nor am I downgrading Leon's accomplishment...I'm only saying we just don't know enough to toss out any claims or titles at all.

What Leon proved by winning the tournament is not that he is the Best Peach in the world, but rather that he is the best Peach in Europe, because he won in Europe. If one is to claim that he is the best Peach on a worldly scale, then he must out-perform the rest of his character competition on said scale, or at least do more than just in his own region to gain such a tremendous title. I can't stress that point enough.

And you realize the same can be said for peach's in the USA right. But you guys tend to ingore it. So I don't see why you would do this to leon and excuse USA Peach players for this rule.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Wow cool news Congrats to Leon! How much did he use Peach and how much did he use Marth? I don't think Leon can claim best Peach if he uses Marth to take care of Peach's bad matchups. Someone else else might be way better at the matchups he used Marth for, so I think to make that determination we should know how often how used Peach and when he switched to Marth.

Personally I think for someone to want take the title of best Peach, they need to consistently place high in tournaments going solo Peach. Using high tier characters to take care of your bad matches, IMO, doesn't give me confidence in your Peach's skills. I don't play this game anymore, but when I did a year or two back, the reason I could lay claim to best is because I consistently placed high everywhere I went and going SOLO Peach. I'd really like to know how often he switches to Marth. If he just uses marth for fun, for example, or once in awhile on counterpick stages, I wouldn't care. But if uses marth everytime he plays MK, I wouldn't even consider him a top peach, so the answer could drastically change my opinion of him.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Personally I think for someone to want take the title of best Peach, they need to consistently place high in tournaments going solo Peach. Using high tier characters to take care of your bad matches, IMO, doesn't give me confidence in your Peach's skills.

I feel the same way. Which is one reason I refuse to counterpick characters. I would not feel right and my skills to be the best Peach or top peach won't mean anything to me. If I go at it solo and put in that work to place well with Peach, then that means something. More than counterpicking. For me, I would feel like **** if I won a tourny or made it far using others. I would not count myself as a top Peach player or the best. I could myself as a good player in general.

You, me and I that fool Niko placed well alot at our tournies. And excel going solo. Those were the days bro.

 

[Razmakazi]

It's alright, I dropped all my secondaries yesturday coz well, I feel like it haha. And I see from a lot of the MK vs Peach vids I see, I just see that sometimes the MKs are just slooooow or playing incorrectly vs her. I need to get footage up vs my practice buddy loool.

I feel that atm Praxis is the only one of us whose actually good at the match-up since I saw him taking DSF to last hit games and last game/last hit mms vs DSF as recently as a week ago. I'll be honest, I don't think there's many Peaches out there who I don't think I could beat with my MK (I play this char btw xD ). Exceptions would prob be like edrees, prax, kyon, kb n maybe ppl i forgot.

Anyway, I had fun with my seconds but summer is approaching and with that, a lot of huge tourneys so I'm gonna ****. I got this. It's frustrating but ima try to make MK my peach's ***** haha. =)

 

[EdreesesPieces]

lol, i'm no exception. i suck now, trust me. my knowledge is still great though, which is why I post ^_^

Also dark doesn't excel still place well? What's he been up to

 

[Eddie G]

And you realize the same can be said for peach's in the USA right. But you guys tend to ingore it. So I don't see why you would do this to leon and excuse USA Peach players for this rule.

If he can win a couple more or even a national...then ding-ding we have a winner. The same applies to everyone.

...I never excused anyone Dark.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I really don't like how many people watch European vids. It's like they only want to see the mistakes. The best players can look bad if you're only watching to pick out the flaws. This is not aimed to KB or anyone else, just saying.

I don't think they're just looking for the mistakes, they're just pointing them out

I'd actually agree that if Leon is going to be anything then its the Best Peach in Europe like KB said - for all we know the top US players could flatten him, or he could wipe the floor with them. Atm its going to be in Europe if you ask me, although I'm still extremely impressed he's won such a great event

You also need to factor in that 1. He used Peach and Marth and 2. What competition was he up against. Did he use Marth to fight against Peach's disadvantaged match ups like MK/Snake/Falco? Its like Edrees said, you can't really immediatly claim he's the best if he used Marth to take care of those bad match ups. If he just threw Marth in cause he wanted to against easier characters then fair enough (he also used all Peach in the final as well which is very good indeed). The next point, how tough was the competition? Were there many of Peach's disadvantaged match ups in the tourney? Were the players of super duper high skill?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Leon (heck I haven't even entered a tourney yet!) but people making statements that hes the best Peach is a bit bold if you ask me atm. In Europe, hes easily the top candidate but in the world...well, we'll have to wait and see. I agree with KB in that I wasn't a fan of how he handled the Marth match up despite him winning but he won so...I guess thats all that matters atm

Edit: Looking back, I've pretty much said what both Edrees and KB already said...lmao woops :x

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

I'm very happy to hear about Leon's achievement, and wish him the best and continued success. ^_^

However... I don't care about labels. Best Europeach is definitely in the cards for him, but even I would wish to exercise caution with throwing around the title of best Peach. I'm not taking a single thing away from him, but isn't it a wee bit soon to say something so bold? I'd be less wary if it wasn't for the fact he has a nice, high-tier character named Marth to share the victory with Peach in his display, meaning he used him at some point. Did he use Marth to cover a matchup? Did he just feel like changing it up? We don't currently know.

Also, there are differences between the metagame of Europe, Japan, and the US. Europe is a lot closer for the most part, making their overall distribution of lesser players lower, but we also have a higher concentration of THE TOP players. Due to expenses of travel, we can never really tell what is skill or what is what I like to call 'culture shock' in the games. Unlike other fighting-type games, Smash is heavily varied, so subtle differences in play between regions can always cause people to perform differently when in another country, where a tactic isn't as widely known. Also, keep in mind that there are ALWAYS different playstyles of Peach on top of that, since no one has successfully meshed the best of each style together into one individual.

When looking at all of that, I, myself, don't ever want to label any single Peach player overall the best. I've yet to see anyone that has earned that right. So, best Europeach is definitely Leon, but best overall Peach? I'll be waiting to see who can manage to pull that one off.

And yes, that was accidentally on purpose. You'll know what I mean when you read it. ^.^

 

[gantrain05]

well to be honest i used to place very well at tournies, like top 8 nearly every time, but i don't bother posting results cuz nobody cares about iowa tournies lol. i just don't play as much as i used to XD

 

[Eddie G]

Not that it matters all that much, but upon further review it looks like Leon went Marth for the entire Winners Finals set against Kaos (arguably the best EuroMK). I'm not sure exactly how much he used Marth throughout the tournament. Just posting this for the sake of knowing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXKwc6as76w&feature=related

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Not that it matters all that much, but upon further review it looks like Leon went Marth for the entire Winners Finals set against Kaos (arguably the best EuroMK). I'm not sure exactly how much he used Marth throughout the tournament. Just posting this for the sake of knowing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXKwc6as76w&feature=related

Even so, Leon is like the only high-level player that has uses Peach along w/ a high tier character. There are ZERO high-profile players in the US that use a high tier along w/ Peach that place in the top 5 on a consistent basis. He has won and placed in the top 3 @ many of the European tournaments in the past. It's just that this tournament actually had a tournament page, and was brought into the spotlight(by me) .

None of us have even won a large tournament, so we really can't say anything except that Leon isn't up to our standards of the "Best Peach". The title of "Best Peach" should mean that the player is amazing no matter what character they use(IMO). I understand where everyone is coming from when they say he isn't the "Best Peach," but Leon is our "Best player that uses Peach."

BTW Leon has used Peach vs MK in past grand finals...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jldIjJyNszw

^^^^^

Also, Europe maybe coming to APEX, so all settlements based on Leon will be determined there.

 

[Eddie G]

I know... xD

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I know... xD

Lol, KB trying to go the easy route by leaving some information out! A true debater for ya