The Better Lucario Official Guide/Faq/Database (Now with More Lawl!)

[JCav]

the move is fast and that was my point, i looked at the frame rates for it and in the front of the move, it comes out on frame 4. thats really good

 

[Andurian]

I love uptilt.... as someone said during the tournament I went to...

"What are you Sheik now?"

It's very quick and can be used to combo some people. I have been able to hit with it several times in a row and the jump and use an up air attack to hit them again with more knock back. It also seems to work better against people rolling simply because it is so quick.

 

[JCav]

again i cant speak for much knowledge but im a wolf main and at 0% force palm is the obvious choice but it is slower than up tilt and up tilt can juggle wolf from what i know

 

[phi1ny3]

again i cant speak for much knowledge but im a wolf main and at 0% force palm is the obvious choice but it is slower than up tilt and up tilt can juggle wolf from what i know

Utilt is amazing but the main reason that FP will be used is the fact that it is easy to use out of jab. Utilt is feasible, but it's a bit harder.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

against a GOOD wolf FP is by far better. wolfs shine can stop lucarios up-anything dead in its tracks

 

[phi1ny3]

COULD'VE WON IF YOU USED UTILT. =OOOOOOOOOO

XD

Utilt is good for: hitting people that roll, keeping strings going, having a fast attack, hitting people behind you when it's too late to turn around.... etc.

To each Lucario their own, but... Utilt is a fantastic move.

Double post to add: it starts up stuff as well, and has amazing arc, considering most don't have good utilt range around them.

 

[Browny]

So like, today i saw a lucas player not once.. but twice in the same match make his PKT2 his the edge of FD from a perfect horizontal and he bounced off it witout grabbing the ledge at all, very similar to what would happen if you aimed at a wall. Now we know its been proven that lucario can wall cling on the left edge of the first part of Frigate despite not looking possible... maybe its possible to do it on FD? there must be a tiny section of the stage which isnt as edge, but rather a wall which causes PKT2 to bounce off it so yeah, might wanna look into this a little further :D

 

[Timbers]

DJ, in order to land on this wall you must begin your fall special animation, but you must land on it before the initial frames are over with for the fall special. If that makes any sense. In other words, you're safer off going for FD's wall beneath the ledge.


And please be wise on using utilt. It's a very nice move but it's the most punishable thing ever if you're throwing it out blindly, as it has relatively long cooldown and no shield stun at all. If you're using it, make sure you know that you're being smart about it. It's not something that can be spammed. A very nice move, but it's not the best choice for everything.

then what's the utility for it if i'm so silly? I'm pretty sure I'm generally knowledgeable with Lucario at least. I just took fifth using him in a tourney where i nearly beat panda's snake with it.

Is a good example of what I'm talking about. Utilt doesn't have much use in a match against Snake. He has no aerial approach, and unless he's screwed up his spacing, he'll never be in lag around you, within utilt range. On block you'll also take 18-20% easily. Utilt against Snake is not a wise choice.

It's still a very good move, as it props characters up directly above you for more followups, but knowing when it's an ideal time to use it is going to account for a lot.

 

[Greenpoe]

Anyone have tips for Lucario vs. Lucario? I find this matchup makes luck a much larger factor, thus, it seems like someone who secondaries Lucario could just as easily beat a Lucario main, since it is extremely difficult to hold a lead. Even if you kill them first, they have 1.2x aura for being a stock behind, and you get a 0.9x aura for being ahead, so is there any way to get an edge on another Lucario player? Any ideas?

 

[Timbers]

I'll say this about the matchup. If you're both on your last stock, your opponent being 120% and yourself being 0%, The 120% Lucario has a better chance of winning the match than you do.

The reason I say this is that at 120%, a 0% Lucario is extremely easy to combo, while it's near exact opposite for the 0% Lucario. Fresh fsmash at 120% can kill Lucario at 80-100%, depending on where you are on the stage.

It's such a dumb ditto lol.

 

[phi1ny3]

personally, use dtilt when they get roll and jab predictable. Also, try to use shield against fair, or well placed bair. Grabs are good for this match, as having fresh moves will determine a lot between the winning Lucario. I think that despite the redundancy, I hope that the Matchup thread will include Lucario ditto section. Lol, reminds me of Dark Link battle from OOT.

 

[IceDX]

how effective are consecutive jabs??...as in jab,jab crouch cancel, jab jab and repet....... i dont c anyone else use them 0_o

 

[Greenpoe]

how effective are consecutive jabs??...as in jab,jab crouch cancel, jab jab and repet....... i dont c anyone else use them 0_o

A bunch of characters can hit Lucario out of his jab-cancel tactics as it is (MK, Lucas, etc.), AA-cancel to AA-cancel, etc. would easily be shielded, or worse.

 

[tedward2000]

I'm trying to remember the name of a vid that was passed along in the IRC about a Lucario doing just that....

what was his name....

Anyways, It works for the most part. And his situational on who your fighting. If you know what your doing and plan to change it up (keep 'em on your toes) then it should work.

but a continuous stream of it to an edge is bad (FD measurement).
keeping it short and ending with a grab or something makes it use able.

* This about Lucairo using the jab canceling and not the other way around*
-t2

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

You're probably thinking of Disciple. He's the only one I've seen actually work jab canceling into his game.

I'm not really sure the reward is worth the risk anyways. The first two jabs repeated aren't going to net you a lot of %, and if you're going to risk a mixup that can be avoided you might as well go for the grab or FP for more damage and followups. >>

 

[Milln]

I've been thinking of putting Jab Cancels into my game to combat spot dodgers if I can't reverse utilt.

right now i've just been delaying the second jab, which usually catches 'em, but I think cancels would be classier and we all know that's what i fight for. To be cool.

 

[Timbers]

I've stopped using cancels. It was nice to incorporate at first but characters with quick aerials/jabs (like 3 frame startup) were able to interrupt me relatively easily.

It seems to work for Ike much better than Lucario due to his jab startup, iirc it being 2 or 3 frames while Lucario's is 6.

I like going for grab/forcepalm out of jab cancels. Cancelling jabs into more jabs only gives them more time to DI away and botch my followup.

 

[Fizzle]

The first two jabs repeated aren't going to net you a lot of %, and if you're going to risk a mixup that can be avoided you might as well go for the grab or FP for more damage and followups. >>

^^^^ This.

If I'm aiming to use an FP or a grab, I usually just use one jab now since two gives your opponent more time to DI/react. Most of the time I just AAA though.

 

[Greenpoe]

Well...when you do AAA, people will either try and hit you out of it, or shield->spotdodge as their best option.
If they try and hit you out of it, A-cancel into FP/grab/other might get you hit (it's happened to me a bunch of times), but if you do AA-cancel, they'll be hit, since the second A should stun them enough for your cancel to work, uhm, right?
If they just shield->spotdodge, then obviously A-cancel is the best option, since I doubt it's humanly possible to react from jab-FP or jab-grab.

 

[phi1ny3]

^^^^ This.

If I'm aiming to use an FP or a grab, I usually just use one jab now since two gives your opponent more time to DI/react. Most of the time I just AAA though.

Depends, since I've found that AA spaces you for the FP/grab at times where regular A didn't cut it.
Sometimes, out of the blue, I'll AA shield, just to see reaction without getting punished (unless they're D3 or something like that), then I'll punish after that with shield grab, ftilt, or utilt. Throws off their "tempo", sort to speak.

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

Hey guys do you thing this combo works cause I tried once on a person and it worked.

reverse Fair>reverse Fair>jump>reverse Fair>Backair

 

[Greenpoe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy7P7RWo
I think this video should be somewhere in the first post, because I've seen many people ask the "proper" way to DI, and living at high percentages is essential to Lucario.

 

[Milln]

Hey guys do you thing this combo works cause I tried once on a person and it worked.

reverse Fair>reverse Fair>jump>reverse Fair>Backair

Your opponent should not have gotten hit by the back air. There is too much time and not enough hitstun after a fair

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

Your opponent should not have gotten hit by the back air. There is too much time and not enough hitstun after a fair

yea it does take a while for it to connect, But it will probably connect with Nair or Dair though.

 

[Greenpoe]

Any ideas to punish opponents who roll away when you approach, then toss a projectile or another attack? I mean, eventually they'll run out of stage, but in the short-run, it can end up in their favor.

 

[tedward2000]

Any ideas to punish opponents who roll away when you approach, then toss a projectile or another attack? I mean, eventually they'll run out of stage, but in the short-run, it can end up in their favor.

Don't approach.
Then they will come to you.
XD
-t2

 

[Browny]

7:34
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ICEvJ66Upvs

lucarios recovery is top tier... who else can survive a ganon spike at 110% lol

 

[smasher?o.0]

actually no its no where near (ok its good)
but nice survive then KO lolz

 

[Milln]

Someone make a list of what I need to add to the guide and update. I've forgotten and misplaced my own list. >,>

 

[phi1ny3]

Can you add the link to the playstyle thread under the PSB section? Thank you.

 

[D. Disciple]

I'm trying to remember the name of a vid that was passed along in the IRC about a Lucario doing just that....

what was his name....

Anyways, It works for the most part. And his situational on who your fighting. If you know what your doing and plan to change it up (keep 'em on your toes) then it should work.

but a continuous stream of it to an edge is bad (FD measurement).
keeping it short and ending with a grab or something makes it use able.

* This about Lucairo using the jab canceling and not the other way around*
-t2

Talking about me Tedward?

 

[tedward2000]

Talking about me Tedward?

I think so, based on the answers.

Only good things though.
-t2

 

[Greg3527]

Nice guide man. Very informative. =)

 

[Milln]

Nice guide man. Very informative. =)

THaaaaaaaaaaaaanks. One of these i'll update all the information... i'm far too lazy without a list of things to do, though. XD

 

[Browny]

Am i missing something... or is there no mention of Aura multiplier being a simple linear function starting at 25%? Its quite obvious attacks actually deal fractions of damage (pummel makes this clear) a simple formula for anyone new to lucario might help. Ignoring things like stale moves etc lol.

Multiplier = (Stock-standing Buffer)*[ 0.0069*(Current % - 25) + 1 ]

Where the [ 0.0069*(Current % - 25) ] Is capped at 0.00 for 0-25% and 1.00 for > 170%. Its a decent enough estimate for most attacks since they all follow the same curve, its just that the limits of damage might not be so obvious when attacks can deal XX.3 damage or something


---
correcting formula... gimme a minute

 

[Tyrael64]

Something just occurred to me. Does the Aura mod from being behind a stock stack with his % Aura mod?

Like, I've heard he has 1.4x Aura when he's at a 2 stock disadvantage. I also heard that he has 2.0x Aura when he's at 168%. If he's at 168% at a 2-stock disadvantage, does that mean he has 2.4x Aura? ...He's also screwed with very little chance of winning that match, but that's beside the point.

 

[Browny]

im quite sure 1.4 * 2 = 2.8 lol...

Id obviously need to test it but it makes sense the stock-standing buffer is independant of everything else

 

[Milln]

Yes. The the behind in points AND the ahead in points modifiers are both cumulative to your % aura modifier.

 

[Omit]

Short Hop a Force Palm. A little riskier, but it does the same job and lands you closer for better followup options.

Bleh aerial force palm kinda sucks and leaves you too open. You´re better doing something else =S

 

[Milln]

Short Hop a Force Palm. A little riskier, but it does the same job and lands you closer for better followup options.

Bleh aerial force palm kinda sucks and leaves you too open. You´re better doing something else =S

I know. ;.; It's old and I need to go back and change things.

Coming down with a Force Palm after being hit away and being chased, however, is fantastic. It gives you range and an attack that doesn't dissipate when you hit the ground.