The B.C. Brawl Power Ranking [Updated Ranking! Winter 2012-2013 Season (MK Legal)]

[Lib3r4t3]

Thanks bro.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

we're the ones thanking you for the image

 

[breez]

o hai guyz, what's going on in this thread?

 

[Blunted_object10]

Blunted_Object10 for PR!

 

[Blue Yoshi]

The PR will go through a huge change next update, and if I don't start taking tournament matches seriously, I'll be dropping quite a bit

 

[breez]

When shall we get together and discuss it Rob?

Also, pick it up and wreck some mks next tourny please

 

[~Firefly~]

It would make sense to hold off until the end of April IMO. There might be two Brawl events followed by a long break, so it would work a lot better that way.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I agree. Lets hold it off until the end of April so we can exclude Jake from the PR for not being in BC.

In seriousness though, there hasn't been a good major turnout at any tournaments recently, most of them either with several active PR members missing, or just a low turnout in general (lol 6 man tourney... though not nearly as bad as a 2 man tourney last year in Victoria).

 

[breez]

Breez should be ahead of rob and firefly until further notice :D

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Likewise, Brian should be below Breez, Rob, Firefly, and Bob until further notice.

 

[~Firefly~]

Don't forget Captain Landon! Don't forget, he won the February monthly. =0

Also, Shuttle Loop should be above me. >.>

 

[breez]

It's been 3 months since the last update. All of the panelists know that this update will be MUCH easier and faster than the last time.

We should really be updating quite a bit more often. Our "rankings" are obviously fluctuating quite a bit between updates.

I mean, the ranking now is COMPLETELY different than what we have posted - and after the next bunch of smash events it could change entirely again. I'm obviously bias because I know i'll be moving up, but I think that 4 months between updates is getting to be too long.

edit: I read it wrong. It's been even longer. IMO we should do an update now - and another one two months from now. We should at least be updating every 2-3 months I think.

 

[MewMewKittyMew]

It's been a few months since this was last updated...
Shouldn't this be a little more frequent? Meow.
Clouderz hasn't even showed up in like half a year lmao
(Bless his soul <3)

Come on Jakersss! <3

 

[breez]

If anyone wonders why bri is being so active - its because she's a forum addict and I discuss all brawl related topics with her

 

[MewMewKittyMew]

The best part is I've been creeping you mofo's for months~~~ :3 <3 nyan.

 

[~Firefly~]

It's been 3 months since the last update. All of the panelists know that this update will be MUCH easier and faster than the last time.

We should really be updating quite a bit more often. Our "rankings" are obviously fluctuating quite a bit between updates.

I mean, the ranking now is COMPLETELY different than what we have posted - and after the next bunch of smash events it could change entirely again. I'm obviously bias because I know i'll be moving up, but I think that 4 months between updates is getting to be too long.

edit: I read it wrong. It's been even longer. IMO we should do an update now - and another one two months from now. We should at least be updating every 2-3 months I think.

The last update was at the beginning of January, which was 3 months ago. But, I think it's better to look at update periods not in the amount of time that has passed, but in the number of tournaments we've had. Since the last update, we've only had three tournaments, one of which had 5 entrants for singles, when only one ranked player actually used their main, so there's not a whole lot that will come from that. An update now would be based on 2 tournaments and what was basically a smashfest with a $5 entry fee. =P

I'd take fluctuation in rankings to be a sign that we should be updating less often, not more often. The longer we wait, the more data we have to look at, which makes it easier to spot long-term patterns in consistency, who beats who more often, etc. This, IMO, makes for a more accurate ranking. It takes a long time though because we only have a single monthly series of tournaments, which can make it kind of frustrating to wait for results since it's cool to see how the rankings change over time. However, when we update after every 2-3 tournaments, our rankings become a lot more sensitive to players missing tournaments or having uncharacteristically good or bad days. This is what creates sporadic rankings, which is something I personally think we should be trying to avoid.

If anyone wonders why bri is being so active - its because she's a forum addict and I discuss all brawl related topics with her

The best part is I've been creeping you mofo's for months~~~ :3 <3 nyan.

lawl

Oh, you two~

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Ben: "Lets update this now. I've won the last couple of tourneys, so if we update now, I'll be higher on the PR"

Everyone else: "Lets wait until we get a decent enough tournament".

Doing the PR now will be terrible. There are several people who should be on the PR that we won't be able to place due to lack of data (e.g. Trevor, Bryan, Brian for example).

 

[Alphicans]

What is this? Alberta?

 

[breez]

Ben: "Lets update this now. I've won the last couple of tourneys, so if we update now, I'll be higher on the PR"

Everyone else: "Lets wait until we get a decent enough tournament".

Doing the PR now will be terrible. There are several people who should be on the PR that we won't be able to place due to lack of data (e.g. Trevor, Bryan, Brian for example).

For one - I blatantly said I was bias, but I also brought up a good point that the PR being updated once every 6 months is simply unacceptable.

Also, LOL @ "everyone else", the only people who have chimed in are you and jake - and I wonder why that could be? Brian would probably support you too though, because he's pissed off at me.

Bryan is gone for the summer. Brian has played enough to keep his number 1 spot (I think anyway). And trevor probably wouldn't be on it anyway.

Perhaps i'm just griping because I originally thought I should be ahead of you and jake, and now I have to wait even longer, and possibly not even get the spot I want because the OTHER panelists are also bias.

We should update the PR more often is my actual point. I already know/knew it wasn't going to get updated regardless of me *****ing - but at least it might bring the panelists laziness to light (myself included).

The last update was at the beginning of January, which was 3 months ago. But, I think it's better to look at update periods not in the amount of time that has passed, but in the number of tournaments we've had. Since the last update, we've only had three tournaments, one of which had 5 entrants for singles, when only one ranked player actually used their main, so there's not a whole lot that will come from that. An update now would be based on 2 tournaments and what was basically a smashfest with a $5 entry fee. =P

I'd take fluctuation in rankings to be a sign that we should be updating less often, not more often. The longer we wait, the more data we have to look at, which makes it easier to spot long-term patterns in consistency, who beats who more often, etc. This, IMO, makes for a more accurate ranking. It takes a long time though because we only have a single monthly series of tournaments, which can make it kind of frustrating to wait for results since it's cool to see how the rankings change over time. However, when we update after every 2-3 tournaments, our rankings become a lot more sensitive to players missing tournaments or having uncharacteristically good or bad days. This is what creates sporadic rankings, which is something I personally think we should be trying to avoid.

The beginning of january was 3 months ago? We are looking at a 5-6 month break between updates, realistically.

The end result should be the same regardless of fluctuations. Unless we played every weekend with every player possible we will never be incredibly accurate. The fact is, we have enough information to make a significant update on the PR right now - with minimal effort. I think updating every 2-3 tournaments is more than reasonable. Every tournament would be too much bad data - but every two "moderately" sized tournaments we should be able to have a quick and easy PR update.

This will also end up saving us a lot of time and headache (such as last time) when we had to do a massive revamp of the entire list. It took WEEKS to complete.


I'm pretty sure every almost every single player in BC has a good idea of our "power ranking", and I also know that the PR right now does not reflect the actual PR. It would probably take less than 30 minutes of everyones time to come up with a new list. Not only for the people who are on the PR, but it would also be good for the rest of the BC community.

Bad and irregular data are GOING to happen. Infact, I think that letting too long a period between periods will also cause bad data. So much can happen in 6 months. I really think we should be pushing to update it around every 3 months.



I'm sure a few other players can relate to my final point:

Basically, I don't play smash much anymore. All of my close friends have quit. If I get to play with someone once a month i'm lucky (and that rarely happens). I'm not sure if I can manage to hold on to my spot. I wasn't completely satisfied with the last update, but I could let it slide knowing that I could put effort in and come out ontop with THIS update. The further we push it back, the less likely it is for me to ever see my name up there. We all play for different reasons - and one of mine is the feeling of achievement. Like all the work and time i've put in hasn't been a waste.

As I said, i'm sure this pertains to other players in our community as well. None of us knows how much longer the brawl scene is going to even last. I know we all want it to go on forever, but it's just not going to happen.

I hope you guys can at least understand my point of view, regardless of what actions we take or if you agree with it.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Ben... a few things.

First, the only reason why the PR took forever to update was because we were never able to contact you. Brian didn't want to talk about it until you were there. Me and Jake were so frustrated by it non-stop... to the point I convinced Jake, then convinced Brian that we should add new panelists.

If we were to update the list now... how would we place Trevor, Asa, or Brian? We don't have enough tourney data to do much with. So as easy as it may be to say "every three months", if there are no major tournaments, then... what do we do, just post the same results?

As far as other panelists being biased... me and Jake were completely results-based. I had a chart which basically had a perfect list (minus a few trouble spots), and so did Jake. If you want, I can send you the chart, and you can decide from there if I was biased or not.

Anyways, unless all the other panelists say otherwise, we are not updating the PR at the moment, so we might as well drop the pointless arguments. If the next tournament has a decent attendance, with all the main people showing up, then I would gladly support a PR update.



Also, Ben, you feeling you should be above people... now you know how I felt when I was placed at 10th just because of one tournament where I faced someone all the time who knew how to beat me (Ewic). I've had my share of being placed lower than I should be placed. Not saying it's your turn, but... for what it's worth, do like I did, deal with it, and wait until the next update. Didn't want to make it sound mean, but just wanted to get the point across. Once most panelists feel we have enough data to update it, then we will update it. But we will not just update it because you think you should be #1, and delaying it might hurt your chances. Just... be patient, and wait. It will be updated soon.

 

[breez]

Ben... a few things.

First, the only reason why the PR took forever to update was because we were never able to contact you. Brian didn't want to talk about it until you were there. Me and Jake were so frustrated by it non-stop... to the point I convinced Jake, then convinced Brian that we should add new panelists.

If we were to update the list now... how would we place Trevor, Asa, or Brian? We don't have enough tourney data to do much with. So as easy as it may be to say "every three months", if there are no major tournaments, then... what do we do, just post the same results?

As far as other panelists being biased... me and Jake were completely results-based. I had a chart which basically had a perfect list (minus a few trouble spots), and so did Jake. If you want, I can send you the chart, and you can decide from there if I was biased or not.

Anyways, unless all the other panelists say otherwise, we are not updating the PR at the moment, so we might as well drop the pointless arguments. If the next tournament has a decent attendance, with all the main people showing up, then I would gladly support a PR update.



Also, Ben, you feeling you should be above people... now you know how I felt when I was placed at 10th just because of one tournament where I faced someone all the time who knew how to beat me (Ewic). I've had my share of being placed lower than I should be placed. Not saying it's your turn, but... for what it's worth, do like I did, deal with it, and wait until the next update. Didn't want to make it sound mean, but just wanted to get the point across. Once most panelists feel we have enough data to update it, then we will update it. But we will not just update it because you think you should be #1, and delaying it might hurt your chances. Just... be patient, and wait. It will be updated soon.

I don't think i'm number 1.

When I go and look at the power ranking right now, it's obviously not indicitive of the true skill of the players in BC right now. We COULD fix that. We could take a fairly short amount of time and make a more accurate list, instead of waiting even longer.

Anyway, I suppose if people think PR updates once every 6 months is acceptable, then I really don't have any more ground to stand on. To me, it doesn't matter if there is 1 tournament, or 20 tournaments within that 6 month period - any and all data is valuable, and I know for certain we could make quite drastic changes rather easily to the PR.

Also, I don't know why you think placing bryan, brian, or trevor would be a huge deal. If we **** up and put trevor in a *slightly* wrong spot because he hasn't been playing enough lately, then noone is going to come and murder us.

The point is that we have enough information to do an update, and as panelists I think we should be able to provide these things a little more frequently. I don't think anyone is taking the PR incredibly seriously or life-changing. It's just something that is fun for everyone in the community, and gives a lot of players something to aspire too.

If it's never updated and always inaccurate, then why bother even having it.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Basically, I don't play smash much anymore. All of my close friends have quit. If I get to play with someone once a month i'm lucky (and that rarely happens). I'm not sure if I can manage to hold on to my spot. I wasn't completely satisfied with the last update, but I could let it slide knowing that I could put effort in and come out ontop with THIS update. The further we push it back, the less likely it is for me to ever see my name up there. We all play for different reasons - and one of mine is the feeling of achievement. Like all the work and time i've put in hasn't been a waste.

Also, I don't know why you think placing bryan, brian, or trevor would be a huge deal. If we **** up and put trevor in a *slightly* wrong spot because he hasn't been playing enough lately, then noone is going to come and murder us.

...

Anyways, I agree with you that it should be updated more than once every 6 months. I personally think once every 3 good-attendance tournaments (or equivalent) is good enough. If there is only one 7 man tournament in the span of 3 months and nothing else, then there is no reason to update the PR. However, if there is a 40 man tournament every week, then as painful as it may be, maybe an update a month or two would be better. I don't completely disagree with you... however, the only reason why I am saying no right now is because we don't have enough info to make an accurate update, and several people who we need this info will possibly come to the next tournament (e.g. Trevor, maybe another islander, and a few others...).

So... to be clear, I agree with you in the sense that updates are happening in too large a span from each other, but as of now, I don't believe we have enough info for an accurate update. and as far as this:

Also, I don't know why you think placing bryan, brian, or trevor would be a huge deal. If we **** up and put trevor in a *slightly* wrong spot because he hasn't been playing enough lately, then noone is going to come and murder us.

Although you're technically right, nobody will murder us, I would like to have it as accurate as possible. If we just put random people in a random order for the bottom 3 spots on the PR, the people who should be on the PR will not be pleased at all... and they have all rights to be upset too.

Hope this clears it up...

 

[breez]

...

Anyways, I agree with you that it should be updated more than once every 6 months. I personally think once every 3 good-attendance tournaments (or equivalent) is good enough. If there is only one 7 man tournament in the span of 3 months and nothing else, then there is no reason to update the PR. However, if there is a 40 man tournament every week, then as painful as it may be, maybe an update a month or two would be better. I don't completely disagree with you... however, the only reason why I am saying no right now is because we don't have enough info to make an accurate update, and several people who we need this info will possibly come to the next tournament (e.g. Trevor, maybe another islander, and a few others...).

So... to be clear, I agree with you in the sense that updates are happening in too large a span from each other, but as of now, I don't believe we have enough info for an accurate update. and as far as this:



Although you're technically right, nobody will murder us, I would like to have it as accurate as possible. If we just put random people in a random order for the bottom 3 spots on the PR, the people who should be on the PR will not be pleased at all... and they have all rights to be upset too.

Hope this clears it up...

Well said.

I suppose we see eye-to-eye on most accounts. I could make an argument for us having enough information to make a significant update, but I doubt it would be worth the effort.

I'm just going to have to practice more now ):

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Yeah... I don't disagree with you... I just think one more tournament would be enough, as with all the new people showing up and... probably a big attendance, it would maybe just be best to wait until then.

 

[HNG]

IDC when you guys do the PR. You could just do one now and update another one later =/

 

[~Firefly~]

I was gonna type some stuff here, but then this forum happened...

Maybe later...

 

[MewMewKittyMew]

IDC when you guys do the PR. You could just do one now and update another one later =/

HNG ftw.

I see no harm in waiting until you have good data, but waiting too long just makes it rot.
If you want "more data", host more events. Anything older than 3 months becomes stale.
You will never create the perfect PR or collect %100 of the sources needed; keep up to date or the scene will become boring and die.
Plus, everyone likes fresh things =)

 

[KillLock]

every 2 months tops imo

anything longer is too long, things change.

 

[breez]

every 2 months tops imo

anything longer is too long, things change.

Thanks - I totally agree.

Especially when we have young players like Captain L and HNG who can drastically change their games in short periods of time.

I just want to finally add that yes - I am getting a little screwed by our PR updates here, but that is not my main reasoning behind wanting an update. Rob - you said I only want an update because i've done well in the last few tournies? I could easily say the main reason you don't want an update is because you've done poorly.

So lets just burn up all the straw-men now and look at this objectively. After this next update, we should (as a community) decide how often updates should come, and maybe even look at a revision/changes to the panelists, or at least how we run things. I mean, most of the panelists haven't even bothered to chime in their opinions here.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

The main reason why I'm saying wait another tourney is because several PR people who missed the past few tourneys may show up to the next tourney, so if we wait one more tourney, we'll have better data on these people. Had the attendance likely seemed to be the same as the last tournament, I would have said lets update it, since we're not going to gain much by waiting. But since more people are coming, then might as well wait.

I know I'm going down next update, it's quite obvious. I'm not delaying that at all... I'd rather have an accurate PR than me at the top of a 2 year old PR.

 

[MewMewKittyMew]

The main reason why I'm saying wait another tourney is because several PR people who missed the past few tourneys may show up to the next tourney, so if we wait one more tourney, we'll have better data on these people. Had the attendance likely seemed to be the same as the last tournament, I would have said lets update it, since we're not going to gain much by waiting. But since more people are coming, then might as well wait.

I know I'm going down next update, it's quite obvious. I'm not delaying that at all... I'd rather have an accurate PR than me at the top of a 2 year old PR.

Update it now, update it again in two months when you have "adequate" data again
No harm in multiple updates~

 

[Blue Yoshi]

There's no harm in multiple updates. I completely agree with you. If anything, I'm the one who asks to update it the most (just ask Jake and Brian...). However, there is a significant part of the PR where we will not have an accurate PR, and if we wait one tournament, we'll have the info we need. It's in two weeks anyways... so might as well wait.

If it were to go my way, it would be updated every month or so. But unfortunately, we maybe have one tournament a month... and not everyone is up for this idea...

 

[Captain L]

we should have more tournaments then

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Agreed. More tournaments the better. However, that said, Islanders can't afford to make every single tournament... so... we'll see what we can do...

 

[breez]

Agreed. More tournaments the better. However, that said, Islanders can't afford to make every single tournament... so... we'll see what we can do...

I'll def come to the island this summer.

 

[~Firefly~]

Well, a lot of stuff happened here, and a lot of it seems to have resolved itself for the most part, so I'll just give my 2 cents (relatively) briefly.

In a perfect world, we would have frequent tournaments will large attendance, and in that situation, we would probably update pretty frequently. But, with nothing but a single monthly series that sometimes has iffy attendance, we do have to choose between having more frequent updates and having more informative ones. Yes, perceptions of the rankings change often, and it's very rare to have a tournament where everybody performs exactly as what would have been expected. However, I think of the power ranking as a tool to recognize and acknowledge long-term success rather than short-term success. After a given tournament, everybody knows who did well that day and who slipped, but I think that when most people look at power rankings (or I do, at the very least), they interpret it as a list of who the strongest, most consistent tournament threats are, and that's something I feel is captured more accurately in the long term. I believe larger regions have longer periods of time between their updates as well, but I can't give any numbers off the top of my head.

Looking specifically at the situation we have now, I think we should wait mainly because we really only have 1 tournament left, maybe 2, and we might as well wait that extra month to update. Last year, the PR was updated before the last tournament before the summer, and because of the long break, that tournament was not included in the next PR because it was so long ago. I don't see results from 3-4 months ago as being completely irrelevant, but after a break like that, tournaments beforehand become more of a distant memory than anything else. And for the sake of coverage, it would make a lot more sense to me if we waited until this season ended before updating.

 

[Max113]

Of course you guys would add me on the list when I haven't been able to come in forever...

Oh, and just a heads up.... Defender doesn't play Wario anymore. :O

Oh... and...

I'll def come to the island this summer.

We need to have some more "enthusiastic" MK dittos. :]

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Max! Come!

 

[Max113]

Max! Come!

No thank you, this is a public place. For shame Rob.

I want to come, really badly, but I don't have money. Though Defender and I are picking up Brawl again, so "prepare to receive the thunder" you silly Mainlanders. :]

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Wait... so me and Trevor are not the only two competitive brawlers remaining?