The 2006-2008 Tier list

[JBM falcon08]

new tier list

falcon
sheik
marth

that is all.

 

[Emblem Lord]

WTF? Fox can't get out marth's combos at all unless Marth messes up. WTF are you talking about.

Marth however can get out of foxes main combo with smash DI. And DIing away from the shine makes it harder for Fox to follow-up. Marth could buffer a roll and get out of the combo. Fox could follow up with a near perfect wavedash, but this is difficult to do.

Marth has more priority then Ganon overall. Disjointed hitbox and all that. But more or less thier priority is equal. And Marth can still death combo Ganon and is alot faster. So how is he a counter? Tech chasing isn't hard to do with marth. Not at all. lol.

Rofl @ ganon being one of marth's hardest match-ups. It's even. EVEN. lolz.

You aren't giving me anything substanial to back up your claim about Ganon having advantage over him. Marth can hit Ganon out of a fair BTW. If Ganon jumps into the **** like a moron he will just eat a tipper. All Ganon can do is space. But Marth has better tilts, edge guarding and combos and he is faster so he can get in thier past ganon's range to prsssure him.

Ganon vs marth is even.

 

[Aesir]

^ I agree with this statement. >_>

I had a set with a decent ganon I'm a decent marth and it was pretty much back and forth. I think I could have won easier if I was more patient, but meh whateverz no johnz lol.

 

[Pat/Pro]

I think that ganon has a slight advantage over marth because a grab can lead to a chain and almost always a bair. Plus ganon can **** marths recovery with reverse u air. There are very few good ganons out there so you dont really see this until you play one of them.

 

[REDRAGON]

I think that ganon has a slight advantage over marth because a grab can lead to a chain and almost always a bair. Plus ganon can **** marths recovery with reverse u air. There are very few good ganons out there so you dont really see this until you play one of them.

There is a very good reason why there are very few Ganons out there dude


Redragon

 

[Aesir]

you have to grab marth first in order for the chain grab to happen grabbing a good marth = hard.

and on the edge guard part, marth has more options to edge guard that ganon does to edge guard marth.

 

[Pat/Pro]

There is a very good reason why there are very few Ganons out there dude


Redragon

Yeah and her name is shiek. Its definitely not because of marth.

you have to grab marth first in order for the chain grab to happen grabbing a good marth = hard.

and on the edge guard part, marth has more options to edge guard that ganon does to edge guard marth.

Thats true. But everyone can edgeguard ganon well. Not everyone can edgeguard marth well. Most of ganons hits send marth flying leading to the ganons eventual far above average ability to edgeguard marth. If a ganon lands a grab near the edge on marth with mid to high percents that marth is dead. If you talk to any good ganondorf they will tell you that marth is either even or in ganons favor. It is usually without a doubt their favorite top tier matchup except for maybe peach.

 

[Aesir]

Tents and fire wood > ganon.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth can death combo Ganon.

Why are the people arguing for Ganon ignoring this fact?

Marth can U-throw Ganon and then combo. If Ganon jumps then wait for the jump then proceed to death combo. F-throw also sets up for combos well at low percents.

It's even.

 

[mood4food77]

ganon's moves are all disjointed, except for dair, fsmash, usmash, and nair

and trust me, ganon has a lot more priority than marth, marth's fair doesn't stop samus' fully charged B, ganon's fair eats through it, his bair eats through it, his uair stops it, and his dair cancels it,

on that note, ganon's bair goes through marth's fair, most likely though, since they have similar range, they'll trade hits

and no, marth cannot death combo ganon, he's too fat for that, the combo's don't work until 30 or something, trust me...i hate fighting marths, but never once, has one done a 0-death on me (i think it was once....but that was a long time ago, before i knew proper DI)

 

[Emblem Lord]

lol. Who said Marth's fair has the most priority out of all his moves?

Although for the record, priority in SSBM is really screwed up.

Anyway, Marth's f-smash stuffs all of Ganon's approaches, I think.

Also if Ganon spams aerial you are supposed to stuff him with u-tilts and f-tilts not jump into the air and try to beat him, but Marth can do it.

Also in terms of range Marth wins. His ground moves have more range then any of Ganon's moves. Ganon only outranges Marth air to air. But, like I said Marth should be stuffing his approach on the ground.

 

[Pat/Pro]

You cant death combo ganon. And if you could it would be highly stage dependant in which case the ganon could just ban said level. You are right about the priority thing though. Even ganons b air goes through just about everyone of marths aerials if used correctly. I agree with emblem in that I would have to say it is even. But if I had to give someone an advantage I would give it to ganon.

Emblem is right though about the forward smash. But ganon gets a free hits after a missed f smash. Ganons down b for instance is automatic after a missed f smash tipman even mentions this in the ganon guide.

All in all this matchup is highly stage dependent for who has the advantage. But in every case the advantage to either side is small.

 

[Aesir]

Lord Knight says marth >>>> ganon.

I'm willing to bet he knows what he's talking about LOL

marth has more priority then ganon and marth out pressures ganon.

if anything its even.

 

[mood4food77]

ganon's bair goes through those too, for the most part, trade hits though cause of the range on ftilt, utilt doesn't work well in the match (luck of actually using it)

marth's also screwed once ganon gets like a uair on him since marth's dair doesn't have much priority at all

people keep saying htat marth has more priority that ganon, than why does ganon's dtilt cancel out peach's dsmash while marth's fsmash just stops and peach;s dsmash still goes on

ganon's supposed to spam aerials, it's marth's nair that i really hate

lord knight doesn't use either character, he's a roy/IC user.....no offense to him, yea he's a great player...but he doesn't main that character, so his opinion is like....second hand

it depends on the marth, i hate nair spamming marths, i can deal with the rest

i'll give him even match-up or 51-49 in ganon's favor

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth can death combo Ganon. Why wouldn't Marth be able to? When I say death combo I don't neccessarily mean 0 to death. I just mean from low to moderate percents to death. Marth can do that to Ganon.

Ganon can't do it to Marth.

Edit: Ok, maybe I'll give priority to Ganon, but like I said priority in this game makes no sense alot of the time. But my other points still stand.

 

[Aesir]

ganon's bair goes through those too, for the most part, trade hits though cause of the range on ftilt, utilt doesn't work well in the match (luck of actually using it)

marth's also screwed once ganon gets like a uair on him since marth's dair doesn't have much priority at all

people keep saying htat marth has more priority that ganon, than why does ganon's dtilt cancel out peach's dsmash while marth's fsmash just stops and peach;s dsmash still goes on

Tipper fsmash beats out the down smash. <_<

 

[mood4food77]

everytime i've seen it...it's always cancelled out...and peach keeps rotating

that's probably cause it hits the upperbody in which peach has no priority, while down by her spinning foot is where all the priority is

 

[DarkKnight077]

Counterpicks FTW. Gannon and Marth is even, Gannon can easily edgeguard Marth easily...Marth can maybe easily combo but Gannon can easily chaingrab Marth and Marth can chaingrab Ganny.

It really depends on the stage..really. It's too close to call who has the advantage.

 

[Emblem Lord]

But still I'm fairly certain that a tipper f-smash would crush any of Ganon's aerials. Hence why I said priority makes no sense in this game alot of the time.

 

[Protoguy]

Counterpicks FTW. Gannon and Marth is even, Gannon can easily edgeguard Marth easily...Marth can maybe easily combo but Gannon can easily chaingrab Marth and Marth can chaingrab Ganny.

It really depends on the stage..really. It's too close to call who has the advantage.

^ What he said.

 

[DarkKnight077]

But still I'm fairly certain that a tipper f-smash would crush any of Ganon's aerials. Hence why I said priority makes no sense in this game alot of the time.

Gannon's aerials not only the thing he has. =/ Chaingrab FTW...

 

[Aesir]

you ahve to grab marth first though thats the thing. >_>

 

[DarkKnight077]

Grabbing...Marth is not that hard not is it?

 

[phish-it]

Why are you guys even mentioning the chaingrab vs Marth? Ganon can only do it if the Marth is at like 15% or less unless the Marth doesn't DI at all.

It really is an even match up at best maybe a slight advantage to Marth.

Ganon can screw Marth's recovery with the U-air, but Marth can edgeguard him much better than Ganon can Marth.

Even still Marth really can Kill the Giant Man without a tipped F-smash or multiple edge

 

[mood4food77]

NO PHISH-IT, siding with the marth side

it's probably stage dependent, like YS, FoD, and Battlefield are in ganon's favor while FD, PS, and DL64 are in marths

the other stages are probably same set-up, maybe with exception to mute city being in marth's favor

 

[Sandy]

In the words of Scav, "Tires don Exits".

 

[Aesir]

Grabbing...Marth is not that hard not is it?

>_> play a good marth marths tend to not let you inside and they can force to remain outside.

 

[BigRick]

NO PHISH-IT, siding with the marth side

it's probably stage dependent, like YS, FoD, and Battlefield are in ganon's favor while FD, PS, and DL64 are in marths

the other stages are probably same set-up, maybe with exception to mute city being in marth's favor

I'd also say that it's a slight advantage for marth...

but mood is right, Ganon seems to fare better with them low platforms.

 

[mood4food77]

i was thinking smaller stages with platforms, cause once ganon is underneath marth...pretty much, marth is done

 

[REDRAGON]

So we have decided that the matchup is very stage dependent but overall its VERY close with Marth having a SLIGHT edge............

Yay!



Redragon

 

[BigRick]

i was thinking smaller stages with platforms, cause once ganon is underneath marth...pretty much, marth is done

well, isn't that where most characters are trying to be when fighting Marth?

 

[mood4food77]

no, only characters that **** on small stages, so basically ganon and bowser

 

[Protoguy]

no, only characters that **** on small stages, so basically ganon and bowser

Now you'll say Bowser is a Marth counter, right?...>_>

 

[BigRick]

Well idk, I'd rather be under him than over him...

that sword is kinda scary... you know

Btw why has the Marth VS Ganon argument started in the first place?

 

[phish-it]

Now you'll say Bowser is a Marth counter, right?...>_>

YER **** ****ING RIGHT!!!!

 

[mood4food77]

no, just bowser like small stage

MURT MUHR!!!

and the ganon vs marth thing, cause i said that ganon could be a counterpick to marth

 

[REDRAGON]

no, just bowser like small stage

MURT MUHR!!!

and the ganon vs marth thing, cause i said that ganon could be a counterpick to marth

Hope we were not to mean in proving you wrong!!!



Redragon

 

[woody72691]

i sooooooooooooooo soo soo disagree of the tier!!! falcon is sooo upper tier and everyone knows it!!!

 

[mood4food77]

you didn't prove me wrong, but ganon can be used as a counterpick to marth

 

[Magus420]

lord knight doesn't use either character, he's a roy/IC user.....no offense to him, yea he's a great player...but he doesn't main that character, so his opinion is like....second hand

You don't know what you're talking about. He's mained Marth for a long time. He also beats me in the matchup a very sound majority of the time, and actually knows how to fight the matchup correctly unlike almost every other Marth I've played. Usually when I do win it's because of him accidently attacking 1st too much and getting ***** for it. Play him and see how second hand his opinion is. If you do, let me know how that whole advantage against Marth thing works out for you

it's marth's nair that i really hate.

It's Marth's dashdance grab and d-tilt that I really hate. E-tilt too but less so. (aka u-tilt)

i hate nair spamming marths

Sounds like an attack. These Marths should be losing in that case.

Also, why is Ganon's vs Marth's air priority even being discussed? Marth shouldn't even really be leaving the ground unless he's comboing/punishing lag or something and Ganon can't use an attack that could trade or outrange it anyway. The best thing Ganon has in the matchup against his zoning is waveland f-tilt, and that can only get you so far.