The 2006-2008 Tier list

[Bass.]

My fault Ness is top tier!! xD

Mow, back me up.

 

[mood4food77]

i think that's gone now, i haven't seen a ness player say that in a while

 

[Eggm]

Lol, m2 is better than at LEAST kirby/pichu IMO, whens the last time kirby or pichu did anything amazing? like 3 stocking chu at a ken biweekly? :O

 

[mood4food77]

no look at it this way

bowser does best on fox and falco
kirby does best on sheik and marth
pichu does better on all 4 than mewtwo does


there, make sense now

 

[Eggm]

I would rather fight 2 gimpyfish's with my fox/falco than 1 of taj's m2, m2 is better vs fox/falco than any of those characters.. by far.. lol, and why do you base it all of how they do vs the top 4? lol base it off what they've done in tournament recently.

 

[mood4food77]

that's not a fair comparison

taj>>>>>gimpy

but gimpy is cooler

 

[JBM falcon08]

arguing about this is so pointless, because to put a cf against a space animal at a semipro/pro level the matchup doesn't even matter because the falcon knows how to handle the matchup and his strengths are alot stronger than his weaknesses.

people don't give falcon enough credit, the only character at a semipro/pro level that can actually beat him would be either ICs or sheik, and even then he doesn't have much trouble.

idc if you guys disagree or not but i think the top is more like this:

TOP
sheik
falcon
marth

high
fox
falco
peach
ICs

and as far as the others i don't really concern myself.

this list is based on the matchup strengths, not tourney results.

 

[mood4food77]

falcon has too many bad match-ups to be top tier

he's not so hot against pika and luigi, and those are low tier

 

[Bass.]

Lol @ Falcon top tier.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Falcon can never be top. He is too easily gimped.

 

[JBM falcon08]

low tiers?

emblem lord i agree with you that he can be gimped and has always been gimped, but look how far he has come and look at how many falcon's are placing top 10 mostly top 5.

you guys aren't getting this are you, pro falcon players read 3 out of 5 techs at least that their opponents make and punish them for it, if you will notice darkrain, isai, jiano, g-regulate, and silentspectre all place relatively high at large tourneys in the top 5 from what i've seen and heard(darkrain and SS winning alot of tourneys also, large ones.)

tech chasing + falcon's speed + falcon's amazing grabs + falcons amazing 0-DEATH combos= one of the 3 best characters in the game.

like i said, this is at a higher level of gameplay considering players such as darkrain, jiano, SS, G-reg, and isai.

falcon and sheik are the only characters who stop marth from being top tier, no one else "counters" him.

 

[Emblem Lord]

No one counters Marth. CF does IMO, but Marth counters him right back so I don't really count that because it makes the match up more even.

Random thought I just felt like posting.

 

[Pat/Pro]

I dont play marth im a fox main eggm. My point was that there are plenty of characters that can beat a top marth. I was using chus ics as a point of saying that even ice climbers whom marth counters (which is why dj used them against chu in the first place) can beat a top marth. Alot of marths matchups are really close. The only reason you see characters like shiek and cf usually beating them because the best players use the best possible characters to beat marth and train with those characters. Even though they would have a chance to win with say doctor mario they would rather train with a character like captain falcon for marths because it gives them the best chance of winning. More often than not they choose shiek because if the other players sees they are playing shiek and chooses not to use marth they shiek players still has a fighting chance. Whereas say they used ganon they could easily be counterpicked themselves into an almost automatic loss. Using shiek or cf is always a safe bet and is just easier for them to train with. The only reason chu uses IC's is because they are by far his best character. Im sure if he had a shiek that was just as good he would use him against marths.

 

[JBM falcon08]

i think the same thing emblem lord, i believe its very stage dependant.

pk stadium with marth vs cf= marth's nightmare.

 

[Pat/Pro]

I like picking onett against marths with my fox if its allowed for the tournament. Thankfully it is for MLGs. Ive also beaten alot of really good marths on brinstar. Of the neutrals pokemon stadium is usually of my favorite to random.

 

[wordman]

Tiers only affect tourney play, as there are some tactics a casual Smasher may not use for a character. For example, casual Smashers may not use Waveshine combos or Shinespike when playing Fox. This means they are not using Fox fully, and tiers won't apply as much

An important part of tiers is MLG rules. This means 1vs1, no items, some stages banned (like Hyrule Temple), stock match. If not all of these are met, then tiers won't matter so much

Also counters could come into effect. A counter is when one character is resistant to another characters abilities. For example, Mario can chain grab Fox and use the Caping technique against him.

Tiers don't affect a match's outcome unless both players are on the the same skill level, don't counter each other, are fighting on an unbiased stage, and use the same advanced tactics.
therefore, player's skill>counters>stage>tiers

More here: http://www.freewebs.com/typhlosionisme/tiersessay.htm

SandTiger owns arguements 4 free.

This is how I feel on teh sitchation. 70% percent of tiers should be based on tournies. And 30% should be based on just raw intense matchup encounters. Because you can't knock either one, and you'd be fool to do so. Of course characters will have more pros than cons compared to others. It's a fact. But matchups do effect the way the game is played in a big way. Just like I know if a player is better than me. Peach will most likely **** my Falcon. Or if a very beastly Ganon goes against a player with equal skill level and plays with Falco. Falco should most definitely be top tier or broken tier but Falco should never be hit. Same goes with everyone.

But it's a special case with Falco. Dont get me wrong most of the time a Falco can zone the Ganon into victory if given the opportunities with lazer spam, godlike shfl, correct pillar techniques. But if the Ganon even manages to get a good upperhand with proper mindgames, and adapting to that falcos playing style--that falco is dead meat nuff said and thats with any Ganon/Falco match. Ganon just takes your life from u if he hits you more than 3 times. Lie and say that he doesn't. You hide from the truth. BTW I dont like having tiers but if i had my own tier lists it would be based on if Agent Smith's hands were holding a gc controller, playing against himself and he downloaded all the unique playing styles from the world into his mind. Stupid theory, yes If u feel u need to flame me do so. But I'm bored so bare with me.

Broken-order
Fox (perfect execution=win i'm sorry)
Falco (counter to Fox, ditto fox on execution)
Marth (good matchups vs space animals, tipper ***** everyone)

Top-order
Shiek (we already know her bs its been here for years so lets go on.)
Falcon (perfect l-canceling, insane mix-ups, tech chase king, 0 to death combos, fastest)
IC
Peach
Jiggs

Mid-Top: order
Ganon
Spamus
Doc
Mario

Mid-Low: No order
DK
Link
Pikachu
Y.Link
Luigi/Yoshi (I think that they are on equal terms.)

Low Tier-No order
G&W
Roy
Ness
Zelda

Very low Tier-No order (honestly I think this group is the most balanced group)
Bowser
Pichu
Mewtwo

Wow Tier

Kirby (yeah, I said it..Kirby used to be a contender until they threw every good move he had out the window.)


I don't know If I missed anyone. I'm done. good day gentleman

 

[HeadISBAgent]

It seems that everyone keeps forgetting that this list is supposed to be based off the meta-game in tournaments as opposed to theoretical matchups (which can be argued back and forth as can be seen in the last 100 pages).
Anyways, since I'm bored and have nothing else to do, I might as well give it a shot
Top Tier:
Fox
No surprise here, the only argument I could see arising here is if we look back at the 2006 season the top 3 players on the MLG Circuit (most 1st place wins/top placings) have been Ken, PC Chris, and Azen; none of whom main Fox. However, both Ken and PC Chris play Fox competitively in tournaments and even note that PC Chris took the championship last year by switching to Fox. Regardless, when you look at the performance of other Fox players such as KDJ and M2K and the sheer quantity of pro-Fox players in the pro-circuit right now, I don't think anyone will disagree that Fox belongs at the top of the list.
Falco/Marth
I was originally going to put Falco above Marth but I think the difference is too difficult to distinguish. Looking back to the 2006 season, you have Ken and Azen dominating the competition with Marth and PC Chris with Falco respectively. In terms of number of wins, Marth outstrips Falco for 1st place in MLG but on the other hand PC Chris did take the championship. In the 2007 season we see almost utter domination of the tournament scene with all three top tier characters Fox, Falco, and Marth. PC Chris is continuing to do well with Falco and both Forward and DaShizWiz have been winning regional tournaments with Falco. On the other hand, M2K has made the switch to Marth and he too is doing just as well. The resolution of the placement of Marth and Falco will hopefully be finished by the end of the summer, but we have some really exciting matches to look forward to (haha, get it? forward :D) in the next few weeks: FC Diamond, OC3, and EVO west with M2K and Ken representing Marth and PC Chris and Bombsoldier (!) representing Falco.

 

[HeadISBAgent]

High Tier:
Sheik
I think at this point in time, Marth should definitely move above Sheik. At the tournament scene, Sheik is played pretty consistently and has good records against other popular tournament characters such as Marth (although the matchup is beginning to even out at the highest levels) and Captain Falcon. KDJ is a prime example of the dominance of this character and yet represents why Sheik belongs in High, not Top tier. On the national (even regional) levels, Sheik has not been able to consistently finish in even the top 3. The reason is simple if you look at the meta-game: Space Animals. At the highest levels, it is much more favorable to switch characters in a Fox/Falco matchup.
Captain Falcon
An all around solid character, his performance is pretty consistent even at the highest levels. On the recent tournament scene we see Isai, G-Reg, and SilentSpectre all placing high/winning in national/regional tournaments. Not much else to say about him other than the fact that his performance like Sheik suffers in a meta-game clogged up by Space Animals.
Ice Climbers
By Ice Climbers on the *successful* tournament scene, I really just mean ChuDat. In the 2006 MLG season Chu was consistent enough to place Top 8 all the time. This year, he's going absolutely nuts (compare the consistency of his grabs last year and this year in videos and you'll see what I mean). Contrary to Sheik and Captain Falcon, this is a character that benefits...a lot...from the Space Animals meta-game. While I don't want to rant too long about matchups, if you watch some videos of ChuDat, you'll find that all it takes is 1 grab on a fastfaller and 80-90% of the time its death. This is a character that will define the pace and play-style of a particular match, you'll notice in games with ChuDat that most players be forced to a style they are usually less comfortable with simply to avoid grabs. While it is true that one person shouldn't absolutely define placement on this list, ChuDat's extraordinary record in 2007 in addition to the IC's potential in this meta-game bumps them up the list.
Peach
I haven't heard too much about any breakout Peaches right now. Still doing about the same in tournament consistency and sometimes is used by pros for certain matchups.

 

[HeadISBAgent]

For the rest of the list, I wouldn't change it too much. Just a couple alterations:
Donkey Kong
Definitely needs to be higher. Bum has shown the community that DK is going to be a serious contender (especially with the Space Animals meta-game). I would put DK (tentatively) at the bottem of the middle tier (below Ganon) until his spot is truly worked out, but for now he definitely shouldn't be allowed in low tier. As DK's popularity increases we're going to see if Bum's performance was a one-shot wonder or if DK really is a viable character at high levels.
Don't believe me? Watch this: :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3U4oT0UokU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kik6-tEHM0U&mode=related&search=

Other than that, G&W should go up to at least low tier. Because of SNAP haha, nuff said .

 

[Shaeman111]

Link should be higher.... he does decent in tourneys. which means middle teir is where he belongs. I mean, i guess they're not counting aniki at all?

 

[HeadISBAgent]

Yea, personally I'd yank Luigi and Link out of Low Tiers cause they're pretty much like Fox and Falco in Low Tier tournaments...

 

[mood4food77]

i'd take link, luigi, and DK out of low tier cause they actually do decent against upper tier characters

 

[Shaeman111]

there u go, these people r just jealous of his projectiles xD
and the dreaded up-B!

 

[Protoguy]

Link should be higher.... he does decent in tourneys. which means middle teir is where he belongs. I mean, i guess they're not counting aniki at all?

Aniki is a Japanese smasher, and this is the American list...

 

[mood4food77]

link's up b is bad, it's easy to get around, sheild grab or sweetspot the ledge

 

[Emblem Lord]

This is the real tier list.

The characters that usually win tournies tier

Fox
Marth

The characters that usually place well and have the potential to win

Falco
Sheik
CF/Peach (They are equal IMO)
IC

Everyone else tier

Everyone else (duh, lol)

This list is flawless.

 

[Emblem Lord]

WTF? Smashboards is acting stupid.

Ignore this post.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Marth
Fox
Sheik

Falco
Peach

C Falcon
Gannon
ICs
Jiggs
Samus
Mario
Doc

 

[Keitaro]

Yeah, M2K, Chu, and PC are rocking the East Coast. That's 2 Fox, 2 Marths, and an Ice Climber with a side of Pikachu. Makes no sense Falco is still so high.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Falco just dies waaaaay too easily.

He still owns Fox, Marth, and Shiek combo wise, but those three are just way too gay to let Falco make a single mistake(especially Marth, 1 grab=death).

Plus Falco gets owned by Peach.

 

[mood4food77]

i wouldn't put ganon over ICs though, ICs are a sheik counterpick, do well against fox, very good against falco, marth, peach, and samus are the only 3 characters that give them trouble, ganon has fox, falco, sheik, and falcon to worry about

 

[slikvik]

Plus Falco gets owned by Peach.

its a closer matchup than u think

 

[_Phloat_]

Falco just dies waaaaay too easily.

He still owns Fox, Marth, and Shiek combo wise, but those three are just way too gay to let Falco make a single mistake(especially Marth, 1 grab=death).

Plus Falco gets owned by Peach.

In high level matches, most of the time you are off the stage should result in a death, so recovery is a hindrance, but because falco can make recovering just as bad for the other character, it is not that bad!

Also, the shine is just to good, a combo started, that leads to deadly combos, and comes out in 1 frame and can be shieldgrabbed (easily)... It also has shield stabbing potential...

I think the list is correct, except for maybe the luigi, and a little tweaking near the bottom

IMO kirby is the worst character..

 

[StripesOrBars]

i wouldn't put ganon over ICs though, ICs are a sheik counterpick, do well against fox, very good against falco, marth, peach, and samus are the only 3 characters that give them trouble, ganon has fox, falco, sheik, and falcon to worry about

Ganon doesn't do bad vs Falco. It's pretty close to almost even. The only stage Ganon gets ***** hardcore is FD.

Ganon/Falco on battlefield or YS is Falco **** for Gannon.

Ganon/Fox isn't that bad either.

Fox still wins, but Fox dies at 70% in the matchup.

its a closer matchup than u think

No, its not.

 

[mood4food77]

it's pretty bad...why i'm making my doc my secondary, for fox and falco, fox is much harder than falco cause of his shine reach

 

[StripesOrBars]

I've watched Tipman **** Shiz, Chillen, and Forward's Falco and Fox.

Shiek is the only unwinable match up for Ganon.

 

[Keitaro]

I wonder, does KDJ actually use Shiek through most his tourneys or does he just use Shiek to face certain Marths like M2K's and Ken's?

 

[HeadISBAgent]

Yeah, M2K, Chu, and PC are rocking the East Coast. That's 2 Fox, 2 Marths, and an Ice Climber with a side of Pikachu. Makes no sense Falco is still so high.

You mean that's a Marth, Ice Climber, and Falco with 2 sides of Fox (and a side of Pikachu I guess...)
Of course let's forget about DaShizWiz rockin it up in the South with Falco and Forward dominating parts (I say parts because there hasn't really been one big WC tourney yet this year...but we got back to back OC3 and Evo so it's all good :D) of the West with Falco as well.

 

[HeadISBAgent]

I wonder, does KDJ actually use Shiek through most his tourneys or does he just use Shiek to face certain Marths like M2K's and Ken's?

Well at lower levels he pretty much plays whatever (**** your DK dan! ). At the top level though, he probably goes by the most favorable character matchup. Ken is so dominant against Space Animals anyways, so why not go Sheik?

 

[StripesOrBars]

Shiz just ***** Forward at LTEC2 on Saturday in the finals.