TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[Nova9000]

What I'm getting is:

-IC's are being turned into preteens when they are obviously children as displayed in their game and Brawl.

-Using Sub Space Emissary as a credible depiction of Pikmin?
Really?
Is that what you're going with?

All beings react to sound stimuli.
From toads to plants, they all react to sound.
No visible "ears" doesn't mean they lack them.

1. Graphicical limitations

2. Plant/animal combo.


Why would Nintendo bother with showing their off pikmin ears?
It's an unneeded graphical implementation.

They don't necessarily require to show visible ears. Toads lack easily distinguishable ears.
Plants react to sound stimuli.

Sound still works.

IC's are always shown to climb mountains.
They apparently make a living out of it (for some reason).
Even with rest, muscle degeneration cripples them.


@Payas

These gauntlets will work in one of two ways:

1. Olimar's glove is outfitted with a device that intensifies his punches.

2. They now serve as a sort of "brass knuckles"

-Not buying #1. They can pass as 10 yr olds.
-Beren had a point. Pikmin are innate followers; they like like chickens with their heads cut off. So without something telling them what to do, they are useless.
-True. Organisms react to vibrations.
-Why would Nintendo do that? Look at Yoshi. Nintendo doesn't give a **** about RL as long as they make their money.
-ICs climb mountains for a living. They know how to rest themselves.
-Brass knuckles. LOL.

i Am Offended.

Don't be. US > the man.

1. Lack of apparent "ears" don't hinder Pikmin.

a. The ears are condensed closely enough to their skin to give the illusion that they lack ears.

b. They still react to sound stimuli. Plants do and their animal portion will interpret it.


2. Knowing how to climb mountains =/= knowing safety

I'm very knowledgable about history, but that doesn't mean I know all of the fiber details behind certain wars (weapon types, military lingo, strategies).

The IC's may know how to scale mountains, but be oblivious to the effects of how lack if proper rest is crippling them.


3. If I wear a out-fitted with plaster on the inside, it'll deliver a much more devastating blow and the user feels near no difference.

A form of "brass knuckles" is entirely plausible and would have little to no ramifications for Olimar.
Heck, the only side effect he's gotten from it in-game was "having a sore shoulder" after usage.


btw
what was the question you mentioned?
I must have overlooked it.

-They sense vibrations. I can accept that.
-Say this to Bowser/Zard when using flame. Same to Yoshi and Sonic being bipedal. Some things are just common sense when it comes to certain things. Safety is what falls under common sense. Come on...
-I still laugh at Oli using melee attacks. But whatever's clever.

It will not be sufficient, adults can rest, but kids can't produce the cells fast enough, even with rest, if they rest enough, they're at square one again.


Furthermore, take a look at their facial structure, their head is quite simply too big to be anything later then a young kid, even assuming the unusually round ****** head (keep in mind they're actually not Eskimos).


No, they're quite young.

So now kids cannot rest? Kids can rest just as well as adults. And what you are saying contradicts the purpose of muscles getting strong. Based off of that logic, we shouldn't be able to use muscles until we're 13. And they are Eskimos so they will look that way (what else would live on a mountain?). Dimples do not make you a 5 yr old.

@ REL
So what exactly do you propose Pikmin are? They have plant properties which lack ears but are responsive to light. The animal part is what we are unsure of. But they can be deaf and sense vibrations which would justify how dumb they are.

 

[REL38]

Pikmin posses the characteristics of “follow the leader” (ducks), loyalty (canines) and strength (ants).
This alone shows that the Pikmin will follow Olimar. He plucked them, so they follow him.

Don't believe me?

Bulbmin follow the exact same concept.

Bulbmin are an infected host by a sub-species of parasitic Pikmin that enter said host (usually Bulborbs) and display their abilities through the host alongside the host's own said abilities.

In this case, Bulbmin offspring follow the "leader" with no opposition.
Normal Bulborbs (the host before being infected) have their offspring follow them as well, but have the ability to live on their own without the parents guidance.

Bulbmin follow their "leader" or parent no matter what cirucumstance. Just like Pikmin do with Olimar.


In regards to how he actually controls them relates to his whistle.
Olimar calls stray Pikmin via his whistle which has a colorful display of colors (kinda kinda just for show)
When Olimar “rallies” his Pikmin, a small tune is played. This implies that Olimar is using his whistle to make them move.

From this, I’m saying that Olimar actively calls and “orders” the Pikmin via audio frequencies from his whistle.
The Pikmin already follow Olimar, so he’s not using the whistle then. But when he needs to call them back or “swarm” the enemy, he’s using his whistle. What this would require is constant “cause and effect” experiments to find out exactly what levels of frequency the Pikmin would respond to and to what degree.
Pikmin not only reacted to the frequency of Olimar’s whistle, but as well as from natual wildlife, more so the Antenna Beetle.

This creature uses sound frequencies as a defense against Pikmin. It confuses attacking Pikmin and proceeds to flee. The sound frequency the Antennae Beetle emits also interferes with Olimar’s Treasure Gauge which acts as a sort of “metal detector”.

Olimar’s Pikmin already follow him as he’s plucked them out of the ground. He uses them to swarm enemies via his whistle. Olimar is capable of controlling his Pikmin.
It’s not the same as yelling orders to grunts, but it gets the job done.

The speakers could very well reside within his "lolxygen tank".
Speakers don't take up much room nor do they need to be giant to produce differentiating frequencies. Just enough to extend 15 ft. around him.

Olimar's suit bears resemblence to astronaunt suits, but that doesn't mean all of his knobs equal Human Space Suit Knobs. He only needs one knob dedicated towards his "whistle" anyways.

Pikmin respond to sound frequencies.
They don't go off of the "vibrations".

They aren't deaf. They have the ability to listen.
Pikmin aren't fools like you guys assume.
Read what I've been saying, more so, in the quotes.
They aren't roaches or headless chickens.


IC's don't look like 10 year olds.
They look like 5-7 year olds.
Look at the pics with the young ****** kids resembling the IC's.

IC's have muscle degeneration.
If you work the same exact muscle, without getting any rest, it'll deteriorate.
Watch the Discovery Channel or w/e.
Heck, you learn this in Health Class.

It's less apparent in adults because muscles are already fully developed so take longer for results to show.
For kids, working the same exact muscles causes them to deteriorate at a much faster rate because said muscels have yet to properly develop.
Normal kids are active, yes, but they utilize different parts of their body through varies different types of games and activities.
Such as soccer, freeze tag or the mile run.

But none of these are overly stressful on the body.
They only take up 10 minutes of time for the kids to play before they stop and do something else.

IC's are working their bodies to the limits by climbing mountains that they shouldn't even be climbing. That's causing their muscles to degenerate.

 

[Sieguest]

Soupa skim reply post

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/sym/muscle_weakness.htmSo I read up on Muscle Degeneration some, and I think the one symptom being

"Muscle Overuse" is what's being used, well...

that implies continual overuse with minimal restime that leads to this, as muscles "breakdown" in a sense and build up to increase strength, (hence exercise).
Just because the climbers climb mountains doesn't mean that they do this non-stop, in fact I would contend that their mountain climbing has built them up, making them a force to be reckoned with (kinda- don't bring a hammer to a gun-fight)
...

So I just kinda skimmed the last 3 pages so, yeeeah.

1. IC's can still move.
It would be dumb to suggest otherwise, but it's just that they lack normal movement.
They'd be slower, weaker, less stamina, respitory problems (high altitudes) and are fat.

2. IC's don't gots all that fancy shmancy climbing gear.
They only have over-sized hammers.
That's giving them stuff they didn't have in-game or something like that. I think Adumb said something about it too.

4.

Hmm, I wonder which one the IC's resemble most.
Totally not pointing at the kid on the right. No sir-e.

^or maybe that one :3


6. Spray would be a solution soaked up by their wahtevers.

9. ~desu

Bing bang boom surprise.
Ima go to bed now.

........................*points above*

...

Random googling of terms is gonna do nothing for you, you need to understand up the fundamentals of how muscles develop.


Regardless, the point is that it's impossible for them to be physically fit enough to challenge her because the physical activity level that they would have to use would cause their muscles to degenerate as opposed to build up.




It will not be sufficient, adults can rest, but kids can't produce the cells fast enough, even with rest, if they rest enough, they're at square one again.


Furthermore, take a look at their facial structure, their head is quite simply too big to be anything later then a young kid, even assuming the unusually round ****** head (keep in mind they're actually not Eskimos).


No, they're quite young.

OBJECTION!
Given over blank amount of time during exercise, physical strain, etc. some cellular substance is produced as a by-product (is it protein related...gaah, need to relook it up)
build up of this substance is what makes you feel "sore" after a workout session.
During the recovery part (resting) these cells are used to build the muscle back up and make it stronger. (Hence why periodic exercise makes us stronger). For muscle degeneration to truly affect the climbers, they would have to be climbing mountain nigh non-stop. It's logically "dumb" to assume that the Climbers are forever climbing mountains without break...a game isn't going to have break time, but logically we would take a break of strenuous work or exercise. This provides time for muscles to build back up. It's not a non-stop climb climb climb, and the muscles still build the same way (somewhat) in children as in adults...it's not directly back to square one, it's possible to get stronger...

Pikmin respond to sound frequencies.
They don't go off of the "vibrations".

They aren't deaf. They have the ability to listen.
Pikmin aren't fools like you guys assume.
Read what I've been saying, more so, in the quotes.
They aren't roaches or headless chickens.


IC's don't look like 10 year olds.
They look like 5-7 year olds.
Look at the pics with the young ****** kids resembling the IC's.

IC's have muscle degeneration.
If you work the same exact muscle, without getting any rest, it'll deteriorate.
Watch the Discovery Channel or w/e.
Heck, you learn this in Health Class.

It's less apparent in adults because muscles are already fully developed so take longer for results to show.
For kids, working the same exact muscles causes them to deteriorate at a much faster rate because said muscels have yet to properly develop.
Normal kids are active, yes, but they utilize different parts of their body through varies different types of games and activities.
Such as soccer, freeze tag or the mile run.

But none of these are overly stressful on the body.
They only take up 10 minutes of time for the kids to play before they stop and do something else.

IC's are working their bodies to the limits by climbing mountains that they shouldn't even be climbing. That's causing their muscles to degenerate.

of course you know that it's called working your way up..., it's not like your climbing mount everest from the start...... start small, get larger
ICs aren't ******** like you guys assume...
we know our limits and stop after pushing them for a while, and yet you deny that common sense to climbers....
it's like saying "they're playing on a skill level they shouldn't be playing on"
it's called working their way up...
starting small, getting better and then getting into the swing....>___>


TL;DR
THEY DO REST AND THEY CAN GET STRONGER!!!

 

[Beren Zaiga]

2. Knowing how to climb mountains =/= knowing safety

The IC's may know how to scale mountains, but be oblivious to the effects of how lack if proper rest is crippling them.
.

I call BULL. That is just baloney and you know it.

There are kids whom are barely ten years of age whom are professional ballroom dancers, going to competitions and other such things. They understand the risks because everything comes with a risk.

Denying the Ice Climbers the ability to know the risks involved with mountain climbing is about as logical as saying that a cat barks at intruders. It doesn't make sense.

Just because they are kids does not mean you can deny them the ability to comprehend the dangers of their craft.

I could do something similar and say "Having a plaster glove ≠ devastating punching power". Yet I am not getting anywhere with that, and neither are you by saying the ICs can't understand the safety rules they need to have themselves abide by.

 

[Nova9000]

Pikmin respond to sound frequencies.
They don't go off of the "vibrations".

They aren't deaf. They have the ability to listen.
Pikmin aren't fools like you guys assume.
Read what I've been saying, more so, in the quotes.
They aren't roaches or headless chickens.


IC's don't look like 10 year olds.
They look like 5-7 year olds.
Look at the pics with the young ****** kids resembling the IC's.

IC's have muscle degeneration.
If you work the same exact muscle, without getting any rest, it'll deteriorate.
Watch the Discovery Channel or w/e.
Heck, you learn this in Health Class.

It's less apparent in adults because muscles are already fully developed so take longer for results to show.
For kids, working the same exact muscles causes them to deteriorate at a much faster rate because said muscels have yet to properly develop.
Normal kids are active, yes, but they utilize different parts of their body through varies different types of games and activities.
Such as soccer, freeze tag or the mile run.

But none of these are overly stressful on the body.
They only take up 10 minutes of time for the kids to play before they stop and do something else.

IC's are working their bodies to the limits by climbing mountains that they shouldn't even be climbing. That's causing their muscles to degenerate.

Can you prove they can hear? Only the yellow versions have ears. Also, unlike dogs or birds who posess meta-cognition, Pikmin do not react to Oli's voice. They respond to the lights on Oli's whistle. That's probably the best way to explain them beacuse the whistling idea is nonsense. Oli has a helmet on so sound coming out of it won't happen.

We realize that they are not dumb in their game, but look at them this way: they only have a purpose when being told what to do. They rely on another organism to have a purpose, which is why I made the chicken w/ no head comment. And btw do Pikmin even have brains?

The ****** kid could be 10 as well; you have no idea yourself. Due to the climate there tey woul probably have young faces but because they do doesn't make them 5. I've said this 5 times already.

I know what muscle degeneration is. And it will not happen with them. Muscle degeration will not occur if you rest yourself. Just read what I said in response to Adum's post; that is a literal contradiction to how muscles work and by that logic we wouldn't be able to use them until we reach puberty. Care to explain how babies can walk if the muscles don't grow and would degerate? And provide some examples of this happening as well; Paya and I have shown kids with better muscles than most adults.

And how can you tell them they can't climb mountains? What sense does that make? Tell DK he should just let his bananas get taken from him. Tell Tink not to fight for what is right. Tell Oli just to let his company go bankrupt. Nintendo gives every protaganist a purpose, and the ICs are no different. They want veggies right? They climb up the mountain for them. If it posesses a brain, then it has a purpose, which justifies why the ICs climb mountains and why Pikmin are not as brillant as you are making them out to be.

 

[JOE!]

Nova, do you have a brain?

If it posesses free movement and an ability to repond to things int it's environment in a multitude of ways by it's own will (for the most part) it has a brain. hell, even single-cells have this in the form of their nucliae

 

[UncleSam]

If it posesses free movement and an ability to repond to things int it's environment in a multitude of ways by it's own will (for the most part) it has a brain. hell, even single-cells have this in the form of their nucliae

bold part: not exactly bro.
the nuclei hold dna which builds proteins. that carries out only survival functions, mainly duplication. They in no way are able to analyze things, or think for themselves.
They were only able to do that once they became multi-cellular.
some single-cell organisms didn't even have nuclei.
red part: lolwut? organisms never had brains until the first real fish started developing, and even then they were ridiculously small. everything before that was just a web of nerve cells in the body. brains started developing when said nerve cells started clustering.
Who knows, if evolution made a wrong turn our brains would be in our ***es, which I think applies to some ppl here. /iwentthere
jkjk

 

[tocador]

bold part: not exactly bro.
the nuclei hold dna which builds proteins. that carries out only survival functions, mainly duplication. They in no way are able to analyze things, or think for themselves.
They were only able to do that once they became multi-cellular.
some single-cell organisms didn't even have nuclei.
red part: lolwut? organisms never had brains until the first real fish started developing, and even then they were ridiculously small. everything before that was just a web of nerve cells in the body. brains started developing when said nerve cells started clustering.
Who knows, if evolution made a wrong turn our brains would be in our ***es, which I think applies to some ppl here. /iwentthere
jkjk

Hum.... so you are saying that a species that managed to survive in a planet full of big things that kill them cant think? Is that the BS you guys are trying to say?

Ps: You dont need a brain to "think" and "act". But, usually, mult-celled organisms dispose of a control center AKA brain.

 

[Nova9000]

Nova, do you have a brain?

If it posesses free movement and an ability to repond to things int it's environment in a multitude of ways by it's own will (for the most part) it has a brain. hell, even single-cells have this in the form of their nucliae

Let me check...I may have lost it...
Anyway, Pikmin can have brains but they would still react upon enviorment like most animals do. But then again, it's a plant, so maybe it reacts to the sun...IDK but I was bringing up a point because REL believes that Pikmin are intelligent enough to accpmplish anything.

 

[UncleSam]

Hum.... so you are saying that a species that managed to survive in a planet full of big things that kill them cant think? Is that the BS you guys are trying to say?

Ps: You dont need a brain to "think" and "act". But, usually, mult-celled organisms dispose of a control center AKA brain.

lolno, pikmin live in an onion so anything big won't reach it because they won't even be on the ground.
they don't live constantly on the ground. they live in their onion and only surface to scavenge/kill harmless babies.

 

[REL38]

@Nova

What evidence do you have that Pikmin respond to light?
Just cuz Sam suggested it?

Pikmin have zero response to light.
If this were the case, then glowing mushroom caps

luminescent floating jellyfish (Greater/Lesser Spotted Jellyfloat)

would have hindered the players control over the Pikmin in-game.

If they did respond to light, then Pikmin would automatically return to Olimar after they've accomplished said task due to the light on his head.

They don't respond to light.

They respond to sound more than anything else.
They respond to Olimar's "whistle" (via his lolxygen tank) when he calls them back and rallies them.

Pikmin would have ears. It's just that due to their coloration, they aren't visible.
Yellow Pikmin having more visible ears is only due to the unique facial appearances each Pikmin has (red:
nose, yellow: ears, blue: "mouth", purple: hair, white: eyes).

Pikmin would require ears to respond to sound. They'd have them in a similar fashion tropical frogs have them. Almost impossible to see with the naked eye.
The fact that they actively respond off of sound frequencies via Olimar and wild creatures (Antennae Beetle) is what supports the fact that they have ears to hear with.


Pikmin aren't helpless.
They attack enemies in the wild and when left alone.
If I threw out 20 some Pikmin and left them there, idle, and observed them; I would find an interesting find. Idle Pikmin continue to stand there, but if an enemy appoaches them, they attack without any command, no matter what the size of the enemy.
This has been present in both Pikmin and Pikmin 2.
They defend themselves if left alone.

Pikmin "unearth" themselves without the assisstence of someone plucking them out.
It's been shown in-game that once you encounter a new breed for the first time, you find 5 of them hanging out around their respective Onion.
They thrive off of Flower Pellets and small game
(Blues have been shown attacking a Wogpole/tadpole while Reds have been shown attacking a Dwarf Bulbord/smaller, imposter bulbord)
But remain near their own Onions.
Pikmin aren't defenseless, in the wild or when left alone.

 

[Nova9000]

@Nova

What evidence do you have that Pikmin respond to light?
Just cuz Sam suggested it?

Pikmin have zero response to light.
If this were the case, then glowing mushroom caps

luminescent floating jellyfish (Greater/Lesser Spotted Jellyfloat)

would have hindered the players control over the Pikmin in-game.

If they did respond to light, then Pikmin would automatically return to Olimar after they've accomplished said task due to the light on his head.

They don't respond to light.

They respond to sound more than anything else.
They respond to Olimar's "whistle" (via his lolxygen tank) when he calls them back and rallies them.

Pikmin would have ears. It's just that due to their coloration, they aren't visible.
Yellow Pikmin having more visible ears is only due to the unique facial appearances each Pikmin has (red:
nose, yellow: ears, blue: "mouth", purple: hair, white: eyes).

Pikmin would require ears to respond to sound. They'd have them in a similar fashion tropical frogs have them. Almost impossible to see with the naked eye.
The fact that they actively respond off of sound frequencies via Olimar and wild creatures (Antennae Beetle) is what supports the fact that they have ears to hear with.


Pikmin aren't helpless.
They attack enemies in the wild and when left alone.
If I threw out 20 some Pikmin and left them there, idle, and observed them; I would find an interesting find. Idle Pikmin continue to stand there, but if an enemy appoaches them, they attack without any command, no matter what the size of the enemy.
This has been present in both Pikmin and Pikmin 2.
They defend themselves if left alone.

Pikmin "unearth" themselves without the assisstence of someone plucking them out.
It's been shown in-game that once you encounter a new breed for the first time, you find 5 of them hanging out around their respective Onion.
They thrive off of Flower Pellets and small game
(Blues have been shown attacking a Wogpole/tadpole while Reds have been shown attacking a Dwarf Bulbord/smaller, imposter bulbord)
But remain near their own Onions.
Pikmin aren't defenseless, in the wild or when left alone.

Yea, pretty much because Sam suggested it and it made sense considering they go away in Onions when i becomes dark. But hey, I tried to give the Pikmin some credit.

And what you are saying is that Oli whistles throughout his oxygen tank? *facepalm*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_suit#Spacesuit_requirements
This says that astronauts use this through the helmet to communicate.
http://nparsons271.tripod.com/pikmin/id23.html
Look at the two pics and hang your head in shame.
Oli can't whistle through his suit and the Pikmin cannot hear him.

 

[UncleSam]

Yea, pretty much because Sam suggested it and it made sense considering they go away in Onions when i becomes dark. But hey, I tried to give the Pikmin some credit.

And what you are saying is that Oli whistles throughout his oxygen tank? *facepalm*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_suit#Spacesuit_requirements
This says that astronauts use this through the helmet to communicate.
http://nparsons271.tripod.com/pikmin/id23.html
Look at the two pics and hang your head in shame.
Oli can't whistle through his suit and the Pikmin cannot hear him.

I said there was a light along with the whistle.

 

[REL38]

@Nova

Are you seriously suggesting that Olimar's spacesuit follows the exact same specifications that Human Space Suits follow?

Do you honestly believe that taking a few wires from the front of his suit to the upperpart of his lolxygen tank where there are distinct slits that can possibly house a set of speakers is impossible?

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Reiteration is your bane

EDIT: *Cough cough cough!*

=>You must read this.<=

 

[REL38]

That's just it.

They haven't been shown to rest and so thusly are assumed to be dumb enough to constantly climb mountains without any rest.

In the NES, everything was set out to happen at a constant rate.
Examples:

Castlevania had the main protagonist travel, level after level, with no breaks.
Kid Icarus had Pit travel through worlds, level after level, with no breaks.
Super Mario Bros. had Mario travel through lands, level after level, with no breaks.
Ice Climber had Popo/Nana climb mountains, level after level, with no breaks.

Going by what was displayed through each game, it is established that Nintendo didn't care about making too much sense and only focused on keeping the gameplay at a constant with little to no breaks.
Back then, you couldn't have an expansive storyline like Final Fantasy or Halo.

Everything happened at once.
Castlevania dude traveled the lands without resting. This is okay for him since he's a grown guy.
Pit climbed and traveled through the worlds. This is 'meh' since he's a young d00d.
Mario traveled through the lands without resting. This is okay for him since he's a grown guy.
Popo/Nana climbed mountains without resting. This is bad for them since they're still kids.

Ice Climber has no indicator of them resting throughout the entire game.
They didn't climb "normal" mountains. They climbed ice mountains via jumping.
Assuming they rested is never present in canon.
It would only make sense for them to rest, but canon doesn't support this.
Upon finishing a level, you go straight on to the next level.
Canon supports that they constantly climb mountains. It's plausible for them to constantly do this, but recieve ramifications for their actions.
Canon doesn't support them taking a few days off to rest.


Ex. It would only make sense for Charizard to have a false pallet, but he's never shown to posses any through his games. Just a normal throat.

It would only make sense for Popo and Nana to stop and rest, but they've never been shown to do this in their game. Only constantly climb mountains.


If anything, it's Nintendo's attitude behind NES games that's screwing the IC's over.

 

[xepherthree]

stuff

By that means, why don't we just go by uber-logic and eliminate everyone but snake and peach?

 

[IsmaR]

It's video games. Not as many people would play if you took breaks every other level. And speaking of which, they never show what happens in between levels for every game. You're only assuming they go straight into it, and not even take so much as 5-mins to breath. And again, it's video games. If anyone tried designing the ICs in current games(or anyone who isn't Nintendo), they'd obviously give them time to rest. Assuming what is and what isn't canon is kinda meh with there only be one game in the series in the 1st place.

tl;dr - Nintendo not showing every character catch their breath for 10 minutes between levels shouldn't effect how any realistic person would climb mountains. Unless the ICs have a mental disease telling them otherwise, they'd stop when they are tired.

 

[Sieguest]

That's just it.

They haven't been shown to rest and so thusly are assumed to be dumb enough to constantly climb mountains without any rest.

In the NES, everything was set out to happen at a constant rate.
Examples:

Castlevania had the main protagonist travel, level after level, with no breaks.
Kid Icarus had Pit travel through worlds, level after level, with no breaks.
Super Mario Bros. had Mario travel through lands, level after level, with no breaks.
Ice Climber had Popo/Nana climb mountains, level after level, with no breaks.

Going by what was displayed through each game, it is established that Nintendo didn't care about making too much sense and only focused on keeping the gameplay at a constant with little to no breaks.
Back then, you couldn't have an expansive storyline like Final Fantasy or Halo.

Everything happened at once.
Castlevania dude traveled the lands without resting. This is okay for him since he's a grown guy.
Pit climbed and traveled through the worlds. This is 'meh' since he's a young d00d.
Mario traveled through the lands without resting. This is okay for him since he's a grown guy.
Popo/Nana climbed mountains without resting. This is bad for them since they're still kids.

Ice Climber has no indicator of them resting throughout the entire game.
They didn't climb "normal" mountains. They climbed ice mountains via jumping.
Assuming they rested is never present in canon.
It would only make sense for them to rest, but canon doesn't support this.
Upon finishing a level, you go straight on to the next level.
Canon supports that they constantly climb mountains. It's plausible for them to constantly do this, but recieve ramifications for their actions.
Canon doesn't support them taking a few days off to rest.


Ex. It would only make sense for Charizard to have a false pallet, but he's never shown to posses any through his games. Just a normal throat.

It would only make sense for Popo and Nana to stop and rest, but they've never been shown to do this in their game. Only constantly climb mountains.


If anything, it's Nintendo's attitude behind NES games that's screwing the IC's over.

Through that you're basically saying that all characters in TDB are screwed because of no break levels....so basically that only leaves who?
And NO it's not okay to go without rest through strenous activity for any person... muscles fatigue that way, rest is required for muscle buildup

 

[IsmaR]

Samus for resting in save rooms, Olimar for never really doing anything tiring, possibly Snake for sneaking around, and uhh...StarFox characters for flying in between planets/missions?

 

[Sieguest]

That's 6
characters....
out of this whole cast........
well that's a lot of redoes to do,
a lot of guys are going out because of fatigue...>___>
/sarcasm

 

[REL38]

By that means, why don't we just go by uber-logic and eliminate everyone but snake and peach?

Not necessarily.

I'm applying game canon to the IC's.
Canon which is screwing the IC's with real life ramifications.

Uber-logic would include them having zero possibilites of climbing mountains and starve by not being able to sufficiently kill anything for food. Being orphans would have impact on their mental train of thought. Being young kids only makes matters worse.

And Peach and Snake wouldn't be the only ones left with Uber-logic.
Include Zelda, Link, Ike, Marth and Pokemon Trainer (only trainer) amongst others.

@IsmaR

IC's only have one game and trophy info in Brawl/Melee to go with.

That leaves little source for canon info.

The fact that's how things worked back in the NES days is what we gotta go off of.
True, I'm assuming they go right onto the next level, but what supports that they go onto the next mountain 3 days later?
Logic?
Coming from the video game company that saw it fit for a giant turtle monster to steal a princess and expect a chubby plumber to travel through lands to save said princess?

IC's have shown to have no home. They climb for their food, being vegetables. They would have very little time for rest. They'd take the vegetables from the summit and take what they can while they travel to the next. The fact that they're fat is what adds to them being irresponsible with their harvested food and having to climb the next mountain upon reaching ground level. This would leave them constantly climbing mountains to obtain their food. Their irresponsibility with their food is what leaves them with degenerated muscles.

 

[IsmaR]

IC's only have one game and trophy info in Brawl/Melee to go with.

That leaves little source for canon info.

The fact that's how things worked back in the NES days is what we gotta go off of.

Because you said so? And other characters have been adapted to have non-canon aspects.

 

[Sieguest]

Not necessarily.

I'm applying game canon to the IC's.
Canon which is screwing the IC's with real life ramifications.

Uber-logic would include them having zero possibilites of climbing mountains and starve by not being able to sufficiently kill anything for food. Being orphans would have impact on their mental train of thought. Being young kids only makes matters worse.

And Peach and Snake wouldn't be the only ones left with Uber-logic.
Include Zelda, Link, Ike, Marth and Pokemon Trainer (only trainer) amongst others.

@IsmaR

IC's only have one game and trophy info in Brawl/Melee to go with.

That leaves little source for canon info.

The fact that's how things worked back in the NES days is what we gotta go off of.
True, I'm assuming they go right onto the next level, but what supports that they go onto the next mountain 3 days later?
Logic?
Coming from the video game company that saw it fit for a giant turtle monster to steal a princess and expect a chubby plumber to travel through lands to save said princess?

IC's have shown to have no home. They climb for their food, being vegetables. They would have very little time for rest. They'd take the vegetables from the summit and take what they can while they travel to the next. The fact that they're fat is what adds to them being irresponsible with their harvested food and having to climb the next mountain upon reaching ground level. This would leave them constantly climbing mountains to obtain their food. Their irresponsibility with their food is what leaves them with degenerated muscles.

And most every other characters in their games go from level to level non-stop
what's to say they break between games?
Logic?
...................................................
/mockery

 

[REL38]

And most every other characters in their games go from level to level non-stop
what's to say they break between games?
Logic?
...................................................
/mockery

Metal Gear Solid 3 shows Snake taking distinct breaks (sleeping, resting).

Paper Mario shows Mario taking breaks (sleeping)

Samus is shown to take breaks (save spots, ending of games)

Olimar is shown to take breaks (returns to ship before night settles in)


Ice Climbers are not shown to take any breaks.
That's mere assumptions made by you guys


@IsmaR

Such as?

 

[xepherthree]

This may be off topic, but I just wanna show everyone something.
I was on Cracked.com(great site) and I found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tJF3qBWyUk&feature=player_embedded

^THIS IS AN ELECTROLASER.
IMAGINE THIS IN A GUN.
WHICH KILLS YOU.

 

[Sieguest]

Metal Gear Solid 3 shows Snake taking distinct breaks (sleeping, resting).

Paper Mario shows Mario taking breaks (sleeping)

Samus is shown to take breaks (save spots, ending of games)

Olimar is shown to take breaks (returns to ship before night settles in)


Ice Climbers are not shown to take any breaks.
That's mere assumptions made by you guys


@IsmaR

Such as?

1. Paper Mario=/= Mario
we've all ready said it's not as canon as the platformers are.

2. See how you're examples are so isolated...
there's only a handful of characters that can legitimately rest from this whole cast.
If we followed this whole statement you're going off of then only

Only Samus, Snake, Olimar, Fox, Falco, Wolf, Peach, and Zelda have legit break time...
So what you're saying is that all the previous MUs we've done have been for nil.
And really it should only be between the above characters? Because those are the only characters shown to have at least some break in their respective games from our cast.

3. You're dehumanizing ICs unequally when this dehumanizing is applied to other chars as well.

 

[REL38]

Under what ruling is Paper Mario not canon?
This is more of a rhetorical question as it's kinda irrelevent :/

In every game, characters are shown to take some fashion of a break.
This being:

1. Accomplishing the goal and then wrapping the story up.

2. The characters doing w/e in the intro.

All characters are shown to "rest" in this manner.
IC's are the only characters that go against this. Mostly due to having only one canon game.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

IC's vs OLIMAR I could care less.
Winner=Who cares?

IC's vs PEACH IC's take her two on one.
Winner=IC's

LUCARIO vs MARIO Lucario has better fighting skills.
Winner=Lucario

LUCARIO vs DIDDY Lucario could kill a monkey with a hat on.
Winner=Lucario

DK vs SNAKE Guns would mutilate DK why even redo it?
Winner=Snake

MEWTWO vs NESS M2 has a much stronger PSI then Ness will ever have.
Winner=M2

MEWTWO vs SAMUS Samus has bested the best, but will she have trouble with this one?
Winner=Idk but I think Samus

GANON vs IKE? Ike should have won this in the first place but he wouldn't gone much farther than Gannon.
Winner=Ike

GANON vs LINK In real life Gannon has a much greater advantage here sorry Link this isn't a video game.
Winner=Gannon

GANON vs BOWSER Why change something that's right?
Winner=Gannon

ZSS vs FALCON Falcon could take her they both have long ranged weaponry and I think if it came down to hand to hand combat then Falcon would win it.
Winner=Falcon

YOSHI vs LUIGI When green vs. green, only red comes out of this battle.
Winner=Tie

 

[Hero Dude]

That list is unrealistic. I realized you didn't know we where being real when you said Mewtwo had PSI.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

That list is unrealistic. I realized you didn't know we where being real when you said Mewtwo had PSI.

but how will M2 ever win a match than he's hosed

 

[PowerBomb]

I lol'd at Mewtwo having stronger powers than Ness.

I lol'd hard.

 

[JOE!]

why's that?

Mewtwo was made to have omg wtf bbq prowess.

Ness just...killed slugs and managed to live vs gygas

anywho, an official ruling:


RESTING IS ASSUMED!

seriously, if we really go into this crap, as people have said: everyone but Spacies, Samus, etc would be out for all intents and purposes

 

[IsmaR]

Ness is supposed to be a stronger Psychic than Mewtwo, even if he is wtfhax. And thank you JOE.

 

[Sieguest]

Under what ruling is Paper Mario not canon?
This is more of a rhetorical question as it's kinda irrelevent :/

In every game, characters are shown to take some fashion of a break.
This being:

1. Accomplishing the goal and then wrapping the story up.

2. The characters doing w/e in the intro.

All characters are shown to "rest" in this manner.
IC's are the only characters that go against this. Mostly due to having only one canon game.

@rhetorical question- A human turned into a piece of paper and using paper powers...aside from an actual person going from stage to stage and clearing castles...
look at that juxtaposition....
You assume that there is a resting period after the story wraps up, but there's no hard evidence of it...
and according to your logic, we can't assume so....
you've still gimped most of the cast...

And a ruling has been made :D

done...

 

[REL38]

why's that?

Mewtwo was made to have omg wtf bbq prowess.

Ness just...killed slugs and managed to live vs gygas

anywho, an official ruling:


RESTING IS ASSUMED!

seriously, if we really go into this crap, as people have said: everyone but Spacies, Samus, etc would be out for all intents and purposes

Problem:

Mewtwo has only been shown to posses such powers through the Anime. Not in Pokemon games. He's just Psychic with great Sp. Attack and Speed, but average defenses.

Ness actually killed ZOMG enemies by the end of Earthbound.
Mewtwo only fights a kid with slaves Pokemon at his disposal.


And exactly how is it affecting anyone else?

Spacies are always in their ships.
Snake is shown to rest/sleep through cutscenes and the end of the games.
Fire Emblem d00ds rest through their dialogue and plot development.
Kirby characters aren't even worth mentioning for obvious reasons.
Samus has save points and the end of the game.
Olimar returns to his ship before night falls.
Pokemon are wild and thusly do whatever they really wanna do. Including eating and resting.
Mario's adventures only take a day or so, tops, to complete his goals. Not difficult to accomplish. He also shows to rest at the end of the game.
Luigi rarely plays an active role. He's usually just chillin'
Peach is captured. What's she even doing?
Bowser is ploting how to foil Mario. He's in his castle. Chillin'
Diddy and Donkey Kong are shown to accomplish their goals in a few days. They rest when visiting "family members" and when they finish the game.
Wario accomplishes his goals in a matter of days. Same as Mario. He's doing w/e in WarioWare.
Zelda does nothing.
Yoshi is fail.
Captain Falcon is in a race car.
Mother Boys are only walking. Ness rests in a hotel. Lucas rests in a hot spring.
Pit is kinda "meh" in regards to how he manages to do everything without rest (age problem).
Ganon is plotting his revenge or w/e against Link in his castle.
Link, depending on games, varies. He could potentially pull it off like Mario does.
R.O.B. is a toy.
Gaymanwatch is made out of the same stuff you find in "Etch n' Sketch".
Ice Climbers have no breaks.


I only see the "rest" thing applying to IC's, Pit and maybe Link.
It doesn't affect much of anyone and hinders but a few characters.

 

[Nova9000]

And what you are saying is that Oli whistles throughout his oxygen tank? *facepalm*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_suit#Spacesuit_requirements
This says that astronauts use this through the helmet to communicate.
http://nparsons271.tripod.com/pikmin/id23.html
Look at the two pics and hang your head in shame.
Oli can't whistle through his suit and the Pikmin cannot hear him.

REL, Let me break it down to you:

-Look at the suits in space. Now look at Oli's . They would have to function in similar ways due to the fact that it keeps the user safe from the consequences of space. If Oli had a speaker, he probably would be shown using it. SO I don't buy the lolxygen tank being a speaker. He would have to talk through his helmet and looking at the 2nd link, he can't because his helmet was never made to do that.

-Next, you say that all Pikmin have ears right? Look at the 2nd link again. All Pikmin have eyes, a bud/flower, and hands. No where does it imply that all of them have ears or else all of them would have them like they do those body parts. Pikmin cannot hear unless you refer to the yellow ones.

-Based off of your logic, every character who had a NES game has muscle degeneration and will never rest. Common sense says that you must rest. But JOE! already made it clear so you can hang that one up. ICs would be fine. They climb mountains for a living and they only climb for veggies (when they're hungry). So whenever they aren't hungry, they wouldn't need to climb. You cannot be hungry all they time so they wouldn't climb all the time.

Please stop this. Oli has too many flaws in this MU.

 

[JOE!]

actually, he never used that suit for space.

he used it to live in earth's atmoshpere. completely different spec.s

 

[tocador]

Problem:

Mewtwo has only been shown to posses such powers through the Anime. Not in Pokemon games. He's just Psychic with great Sp. Attack and Speed, but average defenses.

Ness actually killed ZOMG enemies by the end of Earthbound.
Mewtwo only fights a kid with slaves Pokemon at his disposal.


And exactly how is it affecting anyone else?

Spacies are always in their ships.
Snake is shown to rest/sleep through cutscenes and the end of the games.
Fire Emblem d00ds rest through their dialogue and plot development.
Kirby characters aren't even worth mentioning for obvious reasons.
Samus has save points and the end of the game.
Olimar returns to his ship before night falls.
Pokemon are wild and thusly do whatever they really wanna do. Including eating and resting.
Mario's adventures only take a day or so, tops, to complete his goals. Not difficult to accomplish. He also shows to rest at the end of the game.
Luigi rarely plays an active role. He's usually just chillin'
Peach is captured. What's she even doing?
Bowser is ploting how to foil Mario. He's in his castle. Chillin'
Diddy and Donkey Kong are shown to accomplish their goals in a few days. They rest when visiting "family members" and when they finish the game.
Wario accomplishes his goals in a matter of days. Same as Mario. He's doing w/e in WarioWare.
Zelda does nothing.
Yoshi is fail.
Captain Falcon is in a race car.
Mother Boys are only walking. Ness rests in a hotel. Lucas rests in a hot spring.
Pit is kinda "meh" in regards to how he manages to do everything without rest (age problem).
Ganon is plotting his revenge or w/e against Link in his castle.
Link, depending on games, varies. He could potentially pull it off like Mario does.
R.O.B. is a toy.
Gaymanwatch is made out of the same stuff you find in "Etch n' Sketch".
Ice Climbers have no breaks.


I only see the "rest" thing applying to IC's, Pit and maybe Link.
It doesn't affect much of anyone and hinders but a few characters.

Even tho mewtwo is WTHAX in the game, he is in the anime(AKA changing the sunny day to rainny day, making gravitational fields, etc...), it dosent mean we cant use the anime for the canon MU.

 

[REL38]

@Nova

Olimar has displayed the ability to use sound to "control" his Pikmin.
The manner by which Olimar does this in-game lacks sense.
But by using wiring that leads to his lolxygen tank to make sound actually does make sense.
It's a mere substitute that still keeps the basic function (create sound fequencies), but takes a different approach to the function.

This has happened many times in these thread:

Samus having an electrolaser and cooled nitrogen in substitute for Wave and Ice Beam.
Ganon having a Zwiender or w/e when his sword only neared a small resemblence and toss it in a manner never displayed in-game.
Yoshi's tongue was suggested to work as a whip since it can't go chameleon.
Ivy had to use some type of "spore-ite" to properly use poison w/e since flowers lack that ability.

Using substitute methods are nothing new to this thread.
They've been used for the longest time.


Pikmin are shown to respond to sound fequencies by, not only Olimar, but natural creatures.
The Antennae Beetle emites sound frequencies to confuse Pikmin in order to flee.
Olimar uses sound frequencies to "control" his Pikmin.

2 concrete examples that Pikmin actively respond to sound.
What does this imply?
Pikmin would require a form of ears to react to these sound frequencies.
The fact that their ears can very well follow the appearance of tropical frogs (almost unseeable) provides further proof they have ears, just not visible by the naked eye.
Yellow Pikmin would be an exception. Their ears are visible to give them more air time while thrown, but this only works when at their normal size (dime-sized).


Olimar's suit is made to walk on planets, not float in space.
That eliminates those "requirements" Human Space Suits need.
Olimar's suit follows different specifications.


The only characters that would face muscle degeneration in the NES days would be Popo/Nana and Pit.
Mario is a grown man.
Link is questionable. But a different one would be used.
It only affects 2 people out of the cast. Only two.


@Toc

If that's the case, a canon MU for Falcon would result in the entire universe imploding upon itself with Chuck Norris being the soul survivor.

Not to mention canon MU's kinda suck anyways