TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[justaway12]

Well it would still be hard to climb mountains and Olimar can still attack or he can shove a white pikimen in his mouth.

And the thing is they are far too short to be 10, IMO, they are a very midgetty size, we aren't counting NES games since there was a huge size difference.

E.G.

They were never that big in every other game, atleast the size of toad...

And there was a huge difference compared with Peach
Super is too big
Normal is too slow...

 

[JOE!]

what i am saying is that the pikmin would be much larger than insects, and wouldnt have the reaction of just "brush off".

 

[Nova9000]

Well it would still be hard to climb mountains and Olimar can still attack or he can shove a white pikimen in his mouth.

And the thing is they are far too short to be 10, IMO, they are a very midgetty size, we aren't counting NES games since there was a huge size difference.

E.G.

They were never that big in every other game, atleast the size of toad...

And there was a huge difference compared with Peach
Super is too big
Normal is too slow...

Never said climbing mountains was an easy feat. And Oli could attack, but has he ever been shown to know how to fight?
Puberty has time to take place; they can still be very short for 10 yr olds. Not counting NES games, but just saying from RL.


@ JOE!
If this is the case, then I ask: can Oli effectively control his Pikmin? And he has 10 only right? If so, then I need to rethink this...

 

[justaway12]

Well, yes, climbing mountians aren't an easy feat, but from people looking like kids and climbing it, it would mean that would lead to muscle degeneration.

 

[Nova9000]

Well, yes, climbing mountians aren't an easy feat, but from people looking like kids and climbing it, it would mean that would lead to muscle degeneration.

And again, I ask someone to define muscle degeneration. I'm thinking either using your muscles continously to a point they break down instead of allowing them to heal or muscular dystrophy. The latter wouldn't be appropriate for them and they would rest after climbing. So explain muscular degeneration (not just you, but anyone) please.

 

[justaway12]

Talk to Adum.

He was the one that talked about it, you should probably PM him or something for a faster response, he probably knows the most.

 

[Nova9000]

I thought I asked him too but He didn't exactly answer. I'll PM him though.

 

[UncleSam]

http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical/bones/muscular_dystrophy.html
read, and use google if you have a question.
edit: might not be a good article but w/e just use google.

 

[Nova9000]

I know what muscular dystrophy is and that is inherited; I know someone with that disease. If that is what muscle degeneration is supposed to be, then I call bull.
Thanks though US. No matter what they say, Chuck Norris is your father...lol...

 

[UncleSam]

http://www.google.com/search?q=muscle degeneration disease

OMG ANOTHER CASTLEVANIA GAME FOR THE DS *goes to buy all of them*
it's pops.
http://www.google.com/search?q=muscle+degeneration&btnG=Search&hl=en&sa=2
look at these instead.

 

[payasofobia]

http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical/bones/muscular_dystrophy.html
read, and use google if you have a question.
edit: might not be a good article but w/e just use google.

You just save the icey's. Muscular degeneration is a genetic disease. I will look for more info now.

 

[Nova9000]

So far none of the links relate to children. I've seen when muscles do not move degeration and stuff involving genes and herditary traits and even animals but I can't find it so far (on 2nd page of your link now).
Oh, and how were you born if Chuck Norris is your father? No woman can satisfy him, let alone any amount can.

@ Paya
I knew I wasn't that dumb...Thanks for clearing it up. I'll look for more info as well. Good to see I have IC support lol.

 

[REL38]

Pardon me...DESU...and thx.
NO


* in Vegeta voice*
I must become cool like everyone else lol.
And when does Oli attack anything?
And they could also pass to be 10 as well which is what I am saying.

And since he isn't a shrimp, I'm guessing the Pikmin are also bigger?

Solomar kills Bulborbs with ease.
His punch could kill a lot of different creatures if repeated enough times.
He's quite strong.

Pikmin are over 1 foot in height and I think Olimar is 4 ft.

 

[Nova9000]

Solomar kills Bulborbs with ease.
His punch could kill a lot of different creatures if repeated enough times.
He's quite strong.

Pikmin are over 1 foot in height and I think Olimar is 4 ft.

Ouch...the bold NO for saying Desu...cut me deep...

And this is amazing; Oli is very strong but ICs aren't?

If the Pikmin are 1 ft tall and he has 10 of them...Then mayb he stands a chance. But can he control them is my question? I know he can spray them but that is all I am aware of.

 

[payasofobia]

Solomar kills Bulborbs with ease.
His punch could kill a lot of different creatures if repeated enough times.
He's quite strong.

Pikmin are over 1 foot in height and I think Olimar is 4 ft.

That's ridiculous and you know it. Anyway, you just helped me kill the Pikmen and Olimar. Non-drastic Physics nerfs inbound.

But first, give me a brief summary of new points, if there are any.

 

[adumbrodeus]

You just save the icey's. Muscular degeneration is a genetic disease. I will look for more info now.

Degeneration isn't a specific disorder, it's a term for an effect. You're talking about DYSTROPHY.


In terms of degeneration it's just a case of rate.


You know how if you work out the same muscle group every day it never gets stronger?


Same issue here, muscle cell replacement for the tears created is NOT instantaneous,


The thing is, kids do it slower, which is why being overly physically active (like ICs are) would result in them tearing down to fast and getting progressively weaker.


Degeneration.



Stop throwing medical terminology around without knowing what it means.

 

[payasofobia]

Degeneration isn't a specific disorder, it's a term for an effect. You're talking about DYSTROPHY.


In terms of degeneration it's just a case of rate.


You know how if you work out the same muscle group every day it never gets stronger?


Same issue here, muscle cell replacement for the tears created is NOT instantaneous,


The thing is, kids do it slower, which is why being overly physically active (like ICs are) would result in them tearing down to fast and getting progressively weaker.


Degeneration.



Stop throwing medical terminology around without knowing what it means.

Give me a link explaining exactly what you say. I try to find muscle degeneration in kids in google, but I find nothing.

Anyway:

http://www.richardsandrak.com/

Muscle degeneration does not happen if the kid itself knows what the hell he is doing, or is supervised by an adult. These kids are already experienced enough in climbing so they probably know that they should not over-exert themselves, and know ways not to hurt themselves or their muscles.


Anyway, playing Demon's souls now. It's awesome. Everything I wanted in Twilight Princess. And I though that Robot Taisen was hard....

 

[REL38]

That's ridiculous and you know it. Anyway, you just helped me kill the Pikmen and Olimar. Non-drastic Physics nerfs inbound.

But first, give me a brief summary of new points, if there are any.

If anything, it's giving Olimar another method of offense.

Olimar being able to take down Bulbears via punches is, as you said, rather rediculous.
But the fact he displays a form of physical attack gives him the option of punching the IC's.

The only way his punches would've done anything to creatures larger than himself would have required some assisstence.

Olimar's gloves would be a sort of gauntlet that intensifies his punches.
He even recieves said upgrade which makes his punches more powerful in Pikmin 2.
Higher technology makes it plausible.

How else would his punches affect giant creatures?
He only effectively damages them through these said gauntlets which intensify his punch.

It realistically wouldn't be enough to take down giant creatures, but much and much more effective against some cripple kids.

Punch to the face = shattered facial bones.

 

[payasofobia]

If anything, it's giving Olimar another method of offense.

Olimar being able to take down Bulbears via punches is, as you said, rather rediculous.
But the fact he displays a form of physical attack gives him the option of punching the IC's.

The only way his punches would've done anything to creatures larger than himself would have required some assisstence.

Olimar's gloves would be a sort of gauntlet that intensifies his punches.
He even recieves said upgrade which makes his punches more powerful in Pikmin 2.
Higher technology makes it plausible.

How else would his punches affect giant creatures?
He only effectively damages them through these said gauntlets which intensify his punch.

It realistically wouldn't be enough to take down giant creatures, but much and much more effective against some cripple kids.

Punch to the face = shattered facial bones.

Explain to me the mechanics of said gloves then.

While keeping in touch with canon.

http://pikmin.wikia.com/wiki/Rocket_Fist

 

[Beren Zaiga]

I propose this.

Olimar can only control yellow Pikmin. Here is why. It is the only Pikmin species with a visible ear structure, the other's either have otherwise ovular heads with no visible ear structure available to them. Those antennae do not count, no animal's antennae on this planet can detect sonic vibrations. Thus the Yellow Pikmin are the only ones with a evolved ear structure to hear anything, so they are the only ones whom could take commands from Olimar.

Also, the Pikmin are dumb as blunted nails. In SSE and Pikmin, the Pikmin do not react individually or at all to an offensive force directed at them unless Olimar give a command. None of them even notice the Giant R.O.B. wake up from sleep mode. This lack of intelligence makes them unlikely to respond immediately to stimuli as it is, and means that their simple-mindedness can be their's an d Olimar's undoing.

Those little claws won't do much either, because of the parka's the ICs are wearing as well as their cleated climbing boots. The Parkas double as armor against the small, comparatively frail Pikmin.

Don't even bring the whole "Pikmin have the strength of ants" thing into this. That means nothing when they are attacking as individuals, even if they swarm, the Pikmin would attack individually of themselves. Meaning that each individual Pikmin would be attacking within that swarm. Each individual attacking Pikmin together won't be able to tear the parka at all.

Also, the size of the ICs makes them many times heavier than 10 Pikmin can hope to hold. 10 Pikmin won't be toppling the ICs with strength. They can just kill those t10 and Olimar is doomed.

Also, who says that the ICs do not take any downtime between climbs? They probably take a climb, wait until their muscles are not sore, then continue climbing. In this, they are not muscularly degenerated.

Those Parkas only make them look fat because they are thick, they are meant to keep one warm in the colder parts of Alaska, Canada, Russia and other icy northern areas that are typically extremely cold.

As such, the ICs are not likely to be muscularly degenerated, if at all, and the Pikmin cannon penetrate their parkas due to not having the individual muscle power to do so.

GG Olimar.

 

[Nova9000]

Degeneration isn't a specific disorder, it's a term for an effect. You're talking about DYSTROPHY.


In terms of degeneration it's just a case of rate.


You know how if you work out the same muscle group every day it never gets stronger?


Same issue here, muscle cell replacement for the tears created is NOT instantaneous,


The thing is, kids do it slower, which is why being overly physically active (like ICs are) would result in them tearing down to fast and getting progressively weaker.


Degeneration.



Stop throwing medical terminology around without knowing what it means.

Ok...so now that you've explained it, I already addressed this. ICs will rest after climbing. They are also pre teens, so they are going through puberty. So although I get what you mean, I don't necessarily buy it in this argument.

If anything, it's giving Olimar another method of offense.

Olimar being able to take down Bulbears via punches is, as you said, rather rediculous.
But the fact he displays a form of physical attack gives him the option of punching the IC's.

The only way his punches would've done anything to creatures larger than himself would have required some assisstence.

Olimar's gloves would be a sort of gauntlet that intensifies his punches.
He even recieves said upgrade which makes his punches more powerful in Pikmin 2.
Higher technology makes it plausible.

How else would his punches affect giant creatures?
He only effectively damages them through these said gauntlets which intensify his punch.

It realistically wouldn't be enough to take down giant creatures, but much and much more effective against some cripple kids.

Punch to the face = shattered facial bones.

What? Oli has trick gloves? REL, you never cease to amaze me. If he was so strong, would he necessarily need the Pikmin? And this guy will lose if his helmet cracks; a cleat to the face can manage that. Unless he has trick gloves, I don't buy Oli throwing haymakers.

 

[Nova9000]

I propose this.

Olimar can only control yellow Pikmin. Here is why. It is the only Pikmin species with a visible ear structure, the other's either have otherwise ovular heads with no visible ear structure available to them. Those antennae do not count, no animal's antennae on this planet can detect sonic vibrations. Thus the Yellow Pikmin are the only ones with a evolved ear structure to hear anything, so they are the only ones whom could take commands from Olimar.

Also, the Pikmin are dumb as blunted nails. In SSE and Pikmin, the Pikmin do not react individually or at all to an offensive force directed at them unless Olimar give a command. None of them even notice the Giant R.O.B. wake up from sleep mode. This lack of intelligence makes them unlikely to respond immediately to stimuli as it is, and means that their simple-mindedness can be their's an d Olimar's undoing.

Those little claws won't do much either, because of the parka's the ICs are wearing as well as their cleated climbing boots. The Parkas double as armor against the small, comparatively frail Pikmin.

Don't even bring the whole "Pikmin have the strength of ants" thing into this. That means nothing when they are attacking as individuals, even if they swarm, the Pikmin would attack individually of themselves. Meaning that each individual Pikmin would be attacking within that swarm.

Also, the size of the ICs makes them many times heavier than 10 Pikmin can hope to hold. 10 Pikmin won't be toppling the ICs with strength. They can just kill those t10 and Olimar is doomed.

Also, who says the ICs don't take any downtime between climbs? They probably take a climb, wait until their muscles are not sore, then continue climbing. In this, they are not muscularly degenerated.

Those Parkas only make them look fat because they are thick, they are meant to keep one warm in the colder parts of Alaska, Canada, Russia and other icy northern areas that are typically extremely cold.

As such, the ICs are not likely to be muscularly degenerated, if at all.

You are the man. Not US, but you are the man.

 

[payasofobia]

Stuff

I am going to prove you wrong, and here is why:

http://pikmin.wikia.com/wiki/Blue_Pikmin

Blue Pikmen have structures that resemble mouths, but these structures are, in fact gills.

Yellow Pikmen move in arcs and go higher when thrown because of their big ears. They are gliders.



So Olimar cannot communicate at all with any of his Pikmen.



And the ant strenght can be easily killed with the physic nerfs I mentioned earlier: animals lose potential strenght the bigger they are. That's the reason an ant can carry several times his own weight while a whale cannot even endure his own weight in the land.

The bigger they are, the weaker they are in relation to their body weight.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

You are the man. Not US, but you are the man.

I added moar *Bricked for the meme!*

Well dang. Then Olimar is screwed over completely! Not only does he now have no force to attack with, the fact that a crude weapon like a Rocket Fist wouldn't be a practical weapon as it has no planes to stabilize it in flight, the fist part would weigh it down, making it even more erratic and inaccurate.

GG Olimar, you lose.

EDIT: Thought the Rocket Fist was literal.

Still Olimar is a little person, a dwarf, a ****** in stature. The IC's win due to the Pikmin being useless to Olimar, and the fact they has a superior body build.

 

[payasofobia]

Yeah, I really don't see him winning this. This should have ended a long time ago.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Funny how you're not going to reevaluate any of Bowser's match-up (excluding the one he lost [Ganon]).

 

[Nova9000]

LOL Beren. It's just good that the ICs aren't so nerfed as they were assumed to be.

@ Ray
He beats Zard
He beats Oli
He beats ZSS
What more needs to be done?

 

[REL38]

What I'm getting is:

-IC's are being turned into preteens when they are obviously children as displayed in their game and Brawl.

-Using Sub Space Emissary as a credible depiction of Pikmin?
Really?
Is that what you're going with?

All beings react to sound stimuli.
From toads to plants, they all react to sound.
No visible "ears" doesn't mean they lack them.

1. Graphicical limitations

2. Plant/animal combo.


Why would Nintendo bother with showing their off pikmin ears?
It's an unneeded graphical implementation.

They don't necessarily require to show visible ears. Toads lack easily distinguishable ears.
Plants react to sound stimuli.

Sound still works.

IC's are always shown to climb mountains.
They apparently make a living out of it (for some reason).
Even with rest, muscle degeneration cripples them.


@Payas

These gauntlets will work in one of two ways:

1. Olimar's glove is outfitted with a device that intensifies his punches.

2. They now serve as a sort of "brass knuckles"

 

[payasofobia]

All beings react to sound stimuli.
From toads to plants, they all react to sound.
No visible "ears" doesn't mean they lack them.

1. Graphicical limitations

2. Plant/animal combo.


Why would Nintendo bother with showing their off pikmin ears?
It's an unneeded graphical implementation.

They don't necessarily require to show visible ears. Toads lack easily distinguishable ears.
Plants react to sound stimuli.

Sound still works.

Just like Nintendo did not bother to research false pallates and realistic ways to shoot fire.

If Nintendo did not bother to make a character realistic, welll...... it sucks to be them. They are bound to be screwed in this thread.

IC's are always shown to climb mountains.
They apparently make a living out of it (for some reason).
Even with rest, muscle degeneration cripples them.

I am still waiting for my response, but I did found something that helps the iceys. They will be ok as long as they know how to rest and not to overexert themselves. They are already knowledgeable enough to climb mountains properly, so this knowledge is not oout of the question.

@Payas

These gauntlets will work in one of two ways:

1. Olimar's glove is outfitted with a device that intensifies his punches.

2. They now serve as a sort of "brass knuckles"

First one is obviously immpossible because you won't get strenght from covering your arm. You need to boost a lot more muscles.

Number 2 seems more plausible, but brass knuckes hurt more because they deliver the force of punches through a smaller and harder contact area. A glove is not going to work like a brass knuckle. It's physicaly inmpossible.

 

[tocador]

Just like Nintendo did not bother to research false pallates and realistic ways to shoot fire.

If Nintendo did not bother to make a character realistic, welll...... it sucks to be them. They are bound to be screwed in this thread.




I am still waiting for my response, but I did found something that helps the iceys. They will be ok as long as they know how to rest and not to overexert themselves. They are already knowledgeable enough to climb mountains properly, so this knowledge is not oout of the question.




First one is obviously immpossible because you won't get strenght from covering your arm. You need to boost a lot more muscles.

Number 2 seems more plausible, but brass knuckes hurt more because they deliver the force of punches through a smaller and harder contact area. A glove is not going to work like a brass knuckle. It's physicaly inmpossible.

Ok, just to combo break you.

Death(people that cant listen, if i spelled it wrong) people can hear music.

How? Sound emits really strong vibrations, aka sound waves, which in fact you can feel.

So, despite some pikmins lacking ears, they should still be able to "hear" a whistle noise by feeling vibrations, just like death people do.

 

[UncleSam]

You Are The Man. Not Us, But You Are The Man.

i Am Offended.

 

[payasofobia]

Ok, just to combo break you.

Death(people that cant listen, if i spelled it wrong) people can hear music.

How? Sound emits really strong vibrations, aka sound waves, which in fact you can feel.

So, despite some pikmins lacking ears, they should still be able to "hear" a whistle noise by feeling vibrations, just like death people do.

Yeah, but, won't the majority of the soundwaves stop in Olimar's helmet? Or the sound for that matter?

And don't give me that "Olimar's suit has amplifiers" stuff. That's obviously immpossible.

 

[UncleSam]

Ok, just to combo break you.

Death(people that cant listen, if i spelled it wrong) people can hear music.

How? Sound emits really strong vibrations, aka sound waves, which in fact you can feel.

So, despite some pikmins lacking ears, they should still be able to "hear" a whistle noise by feeling vibrations, just like death people do.

first of all it's Deaf.
second of all if you played the pikmin games his whistle is like some sort of light accompanied by sound. only pikmin in the area of light hear it.
not possible unless somebody pulls something plausible out of their ***

 

[Beren Zaiga]

REL< the fact they:

A.They have the equipment to properly climb mountains.

B. Climb mountains.

and C. Do climbing for a living.

-means that they would knowledgeable in the risks of mountain climbing. As such, they would also have been taught, or have learned the proper restoration techniques and what foods they would need to eat to keep away the danger of muscle degeneration. In this the likelihood of the ICs being muscularly degenerated it highly, if not extremely unlikely.

That is why your logic fails there. They would have been hospitalized sooner or later so they could be treated for the degeneration of their muscles if they didn't know. Then there wouldn't be any ICs. If they are expert mountain climbers as they are suggested to be by Nintendo, then they know how to avoid muscular degeneration, thus trouncing the chances of them acquiring that ailement.

 

[REL38]

1. Lack of apparent "ears" don't hinder Pikmin.

a. The ears are condensed closely enough to their skin to give the illusion that they lack ears.

b. They still react to sound stimuli. Plants do and their animal portion will interpret it.


2. Knowing how to climb mountains =/= knowing safety

I'm very knowledgable about history, but that doesn't mean I know all of the fiber details behind certain wars (weapon types, military lingo, strategies).

The IC's may know how to scale mountains, but be oblivious to the effects of how lack if proper rest is crippling them.


3. If I wear a out-fitted with plaster on the inside, it'll deliver a much more devastating blow and the user feels near no difference.

A form of "brass knuckles" is entirely plausible and would have little to no ramifications for Olimar.
Heck, the only side effect he's gotten from it in-game was "having a sore shoulder" after usage.


btw
what was the question you mentioned?
I must have overlooked it.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Give me a link explaining exactly what you say. I try to find muscle degeneration in kids in google, but I find nothing.

Anyway:

http://www.richardsandrak.com/

Muscle degeneration does not happen if the kid itself knows what the hell he is doing, or is supervised by an adult. These kids are already experienced enough in climbing so they probably know that they should not over-exert themselves, and know ways not to hurt themselves or their muscles.


Anyway, playing Demon's souls now. It's awesome. Everything I wanted in Twilight Princess. And I though that Robot Taisen was hard....

...

Random googling of terms is gonna do nothing for you, you need to understand up the fundamentals of how muscles develop.


Regardless, the point is that it's impossible for them to be physically fit enough to challenge her because the physical activity level that they would have to use would cause their muscles to degenerate as opposed to build up.

Ok...so now that you've explained it, I already addressed this. ICs will rest after climbing. They are also pre teens, so they are going through puberty. So although I get what you mean, I don't necessarily buy it in this argument.

It will not be sufficient, adults can rest, but kids can't produce the cells fast enough, even with rest, if they rest enough, they're at square one again.


Furthermore, take a look at their facial structure, their head is quite simply too big to be anything later then a young kid, even assuming the unusually round ****** head (keep in mind they're actually not Eskimos).


No, they're quite young.

 

[UncleSam]

EX. Frog ear.
it's basically an eardrum right at the skin. and they are kind of hard to see.
it could work.
and the pikmin would be attracted to the light of the whistle anyway since they are plants.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

They are not that hard to see http://www.pcnate.com/photos/photos/Frogs/green/IMG_0122.JPG

If they had them, they would be visible outside their skin. And they would be attracted to the light, but then what? Are they going to suddenly attack the enemy because of the light?

 

[payasofobia]

...

Random googling of terms is gonna do nothing for you, you need to understand up the fundamentals of how muscles develop.


Regardless, the point is that it's impossible for them to be physically fit enough to challenge her because the physical activity level that they would have to use would cause their muscles to degenerate as opposed to build up.

We are looking at things way too technically, when there are a lot of possible variables to consider. That's why I need a link of cases of children getting permanent muscle injury or degeneration because of extreme physical excercise. To see how bad it is, how bad the exercise must be, how long the damage takes to heal, how much rest takes to keep yourself from getting your muscles damaged etc etc etc.


Lots of things to consider. We need to be more specific.

 

[REL38]

They are not that hard to see http://www.pcnate.com/photos/photos/Frogs/green/IMG_0122.JPG

If they had them, they would be visible outside their skin. And they would be attracted to the light, but then what? Are they going to suddenly attack the enemy because of the light?

^These guys have em', but it's just that their coloration prohibits easy or even distinguishable visibility of said "ears".

Similar deal with other animals.
They have ears, but they aren't as easily distinguishable or visible as, say, mammals.