TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[JOE!]

Lucario is a fighting Pokemon that hit's hard and obviously knows how to fight. Wario just has brute strength working for him. When it comes to martial arts, even the smallest of foes can easily defeat a large rival.

wrong. that implies the bigger guy is about the same skill level, and if he's bigger, and as good as you, he's better

anywho, wario isnt 2x as big, but he's near 2x as heavy

 

[UncleSam]

Don't you guys ever read those move/tv shows/comics when the obnoxious, boorish large guy tries to take down the smaller, trained martial artist?

We all know what happens....

This is no different >_>

generic plot lines ftw

wrong. that implies the bigger guy is about the same skill level, and if he's bigger, and as good as you, he's better

anywho, wario isnt 2x as big, but he's near 2x as heavy

that means any move works towards Lucarios favor, any rush that lucario parries by using Wario's momentum against him is going to severely hurt Wario
the bigger they are the harder they fall

 

[JOE!]

those generic plotlines work becaus eits boring wathcing what would really happen:

skinny dude gets beat up by bigger dude. Its more fun to watch teh underdog


anywho, i think imma call it due to how lucario is just that much more skilled

 

[Emperor Time]

Well, there's only one thing to say now....


Gg.

 

[UncleSam]

those generic plotlines work becaus eits boring wathcing what would really happen:

skinny dude gets beat up by bigger dude. Its more fun to watch teh underdog

you can always incorporate both into the plotline, and have some generic montage of the skinny guy training and stuff

anywho, i think imma call it due to how lucario is just that much more skilled

so lemme get this straight, lucario wins... the debate dies, the debate gets revived and lucario wins again... wtf?

 

[REL38]

wrong. that implies the bigger guy is about the same skill level, and if he's bigger, and as good as you, he's better

anywho, wario isnt 2x as big, but he's near 2x as heavy

lolwut? Are you seriously going off with that? I just used "rival" to not use the word "foe" again.

But whatever. It's over and Lucario won. It's all good.

 

[payasofobia]

Wait, what?

We already established that Lucario is not a kung fu master, and is instead an aura control master, and that he does not know how to do every single move in those videos.

And there is still the fact that if those moves are devastating and easy to learn, then what is stopping Wario from using them as well?


And about the video of the blindfolded kung fu man, take into consideration that both had the same the same fighting style, and that lucario does not know how to kung fu.

 

[day-day]

Lucario's advancing so...whose next to fight?

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Yeah, in the pokedex it says that Lucario is a master of aura controlling, not a master of every fighting style in the world.

 

[payasofobia]

We are also overstimating Lucario's strenght.

While canines have very strong hind legs that even lets them walk with their front legs chopped off, they are still not strong enough to cause serious injury.

And comparing Luke's size to a dog is not out of the picture considering that if he walked in 4 legs he would be as big as a medium sized dog.

Let's not talk about his lack of muscles in his arms which realisticaly would make his punches and grabs weaker if done against a bigger foe.

And there is also the fact that canine front legs are only used for scratching and digging and are actually pretty weak.


So fighting luke would be like fighting a medium sized dog that instead of biting or pouncing, kicks and punches.

 

[REL38]

Wait, what?

We already established that Lucario is not a kung fu master, and is instead an aura control master, and that he does not know how to do every single move in those videos.

And there is still the fact that if those moves are devastating and easy to learn, then what is stopping Wario from using them as well?


And about the video of the blindfolded kung fu man, take into consideration that both had the same the same fighting style, and that lucario does not know how to kung fu.

Wario is in no way known for his speed. He's known to be a brute. This is shown through his games where his main attacks consist mostly of just throwing stuff and bum-rush attacks.

Wario wouldn't bother learning anything advanced since he doesn't need to. In his games, all he's ever needed to do to win is by brute strength. His character is also selfish and prideful so I doubt he would endure rigerous training when all of his previous endevours have only required strength.

Lucario has moves like Close Combat which one of the most devastating Fighting type move there is. His Quick attack could be used to get in a few fast hits.

 

[payasofobia]

True that, Wario does not need to learn those moves because of his herculean strenght. But it has been shown several times that if the need arises, Wario will do anything to win, even cheating and using items or bombs to win. So it would not surprise me that if he was in such a tight spot, he would use the moves Lucario has used against him.



And realisticaly, how would close combat work?

He would do exactly that, get inside Wario's range and kick and punch a lot, which I explained why would not be powerful. Canine punches are a joke and hind legs are strong but not strong enough to cause serious damage to a human unless the dog itself is an english mastiff.

There is also the fact that Wario's arms are very long and his muscles give him the speed necessary to keep Lucario out of range.



And then there is the discipline problem. Wario is ruled by a very loose moral code which would make him do EVERYTHING he can to win this fight, even using any items he may have in his pocket...like a bomb. If we are going by Brawl's Lucario which is based on the movie's lucario, he has a very strict moral code and will always fight fairly.

 

[Emperor Time]

Cheating, in this case, would be unfairly exploiting one of Lucario's weaknesses. How would Wario be able to find that out?

And, it's more than landing hits,Payas. Lucario can direct the flow of the fight and use Wario's moves against him.

 

[payasofobia]

Lucario being a steel type is not realistic, so he may be affected by every type of item as a normal being would.

And Wario is fond of using items too, he will undoubtly have a few bombs with him.



And it is easier said than done. Lucario does not have any projectiles, and Wario's attacks will be very fast, making it hard for lucario to land any serious hits without being overpowered. And counter won't work as in the games. Lucario will have to guess what Wario will do in order to counter properly because of his fast attacks and unpredictability.

Also, IRL countering moves is difficult unless you are fighting an opponent with a similar fighting style as yours.

 

[UncleSam]

Lucario being a steel type is not realistic, so he may be affected by every type of item as a normal being would.

And Wario is fond of using items too, he will undoubtly have a few of the most realistic items with him.



And it is easier said than done. Lucario does not have any projectiles, and Wario's attacks will be very fast, making it hard for lucario to land any serious hits without being overpowered.

he's not allowed read the OP

 

[payasofobia]

No, but he may break the rules without noone noticing.


Heck, he may even pay someone to injure Lucario before the fight. In the Wario Land games, before boss fights, if you pay a shopkeeper enough money, he will injure the boss for you making the task easier for you.


Of course, this is one post is a non-serious post.


Now, seriously, Wario would get to have his bombs in this fight, considering that is his favorite item.

 

[Emperor Time]

No, but he may break the rules without noone noticing.

Huh?

Heck, he may even pay someone to injure Lucario before the fight. In the Wario Land games, before boss fights, if you pay a shopkeeper enough money, they will injure the boss for you making the task easier for you.

What! W-What the hell?!

Of course, this is a non-serious post.

Oh. K.

New MU soon I hope. I think we need to revisit some of the older ones...

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Yes we need to.

Baboons are 8 times stronger than humans. Diddy should have won that fight.

 

[payasofobia]

And I don't think that skill is going to do much if lucario is no stronger than a medium sized dog, can't throw people, has a frail build and is a light weight that will just bounce off Wario's girth.

It's like the Snake vs Wolf fight all over again.

Wolf should have won because of nuke-level weapons that did the work for him, but for some reason, people thought that snake would make it even because Wolf stopping to use his reflector for a few moments meant his doom, when wolf had superior reflexes and would have been the first one to attack, had vastly superior weapons and had a radar.

 

[JOE!]

i gotta go to work, ill be back later tho..ill lurk to read up...

 

[REL38]

And I don't think that skill is going to do much if lucario is no stronger than a medium sized dog, can't throw people, has a frail build and is a light weight that will just bounce off Wario's girth.

It's like the Snake vs Wolf fight all over again.

Wolf should have won because of nuke-level weapons that did the work for him, but for some reason, people thought that snake would make it even because Wolf stopping to use his reflector for a few moments meant his doom, when wolf had superior reflexes and would have been the first one to attack, had vastly superior weapons and had a radar.

Although I'd say Lucario is, at the very least, a little bit stronger than a dog (by a realistic standpoint), I'm gonna have to change my mind and give this one to Wario.

Wario has more strength going for him than Lucario does. Lucario may have experience in fighting skills, but his overall lack of strength would not be dealing much damage, no matter how much faster he MAY end up being.

Lucario is, and always has been, a Pokemon. It can defend itself, but it's true strength lies with a Trainer. The Lucario we're dealing with is probably wild and won't be pulling off the best tactics with there being a Trainer absent.

It's kinda like how a boxer will only get so far without a coach/trainer. Lucario would be putting up more of a fight if he had a Trainer to train him.


And in regards to the Snake VS Wolf thing . . . the first thing that will always be one of the biggest factors will be "fanboyism". More people think Snake is cooler and will back him up. This is gonna lead to some characters getting no one to defend them because no one likes that character. Favourites will always play a major role, but realizing who "realistically" would have the upperhand is the whole point of these battles.
I prefered to back up Lucario because I'm a Pokemon fan and dislike Wario completely, but Wario has the upperhand if things are taken into a realistic standpoint.

 

[UncleSam]

Now, seriously, Wario would get to have his bombs in this fight, considering that is his favorite item.

BS we have the finest airport security to pat him down b4 the fight

 

[payasofobia]

And I don't think that skill is going to do much if lucario is no stronger than a medium sized dog, can't throw people, has a frail build and is a light weight that will just bounce off Wario's girth.

It's like the Snake vs Wolf fight all over again.

Wolf should have won because of nuke-level weapons that did the work for him, but for some reason, people thought that snake would make it even because Wolf stopping to use his reflector for a few moments meant his doom, when wolf had superior reflexes and would have been the first one to attack, had vastly superior weapons and had a radar.

In short, Lucario may be more skilled and mobile, but Wario is stronger, has better endurance, has better defense, has bombs, is heavier, is bigger and has faster attack speed.

It is like.....a skilled Ganon vs an average MK.

The MK user has at least equal chances of winning just because MK has far better stats than Ganon.

 

[UncleSam]

In short, Lucario may be more skilled and mobile, but Wario is stronger, has better endurance, 1)has better defense, 2)has bombs, is heavier, is bigger and 3)has faster attack speed.

1)only in his stomach
2)not allowed, you only said that because because you needed to find something as an excuse for wario to win
3)not true, wario can street-fight, street-fight punches are crap

And I don't think that skill is going to do much if lucario is no stronger than a medium sized dog, can't throw people, has a frail build and is a light weight that will just bounce off Wario's girth.

where did dog come from?
lucario isn't weak where are you getting this from?
you are pulling out old arguments when we had said that he isn't weak, Lucario can down Wario.
strength, skill, and speed is what lucario has.
Wario only has strength

 

[payasofobia]

http://www.bio.davidson.edu/courses/anphys/2000/Hatfield/Hatfield2.htm and logic.

1) And his arms, body and neck are protected because of a superior amount of muscles and fat.The only frail part about Wario is perphaps his legs and head.

Lucario is weak everywhere except maybe his legs because of a lack of muscle.

2) True, may not be allowed.

3) Wario has big muscles to help him do fast and devastating jabs.

And muscles ARE important in attack speed and really make a difference. Just use a dumbell and realize how much faster your arm moves after the session.


And about the hit and run tactic....that is not going to work because Wario will endure more time than Lucario.

And lucario standing upright is going to hinder him because dogs are durable because of the way they move when they run, and since lucario stands upright, he won't be able to resist as much as a normal dog and much less than Wario.

 

[Emperor Time]

Agh TEXT.

I can't read much b/c my eyes hurt like hell after being on here till like 3am.

But, I'll say this:
What happened to Lucario having the physique of a cat?

 

[KarateF22]

Lucario has incredible reflexes, he would be able to use Wario's overwhelming strength against him over and over by countering all his lumbering, albeit strong, actions. Not to mention Lucario has knowledge of where to strike for maximum damage while wario is just going to be throwing his weight at Lucario.

Oh, and dogs have teeth to rip people's throats out. Just thought id point that out.

 

[UncleSam]

you just took me to a link about dogs...
lucario resembles a jackal more than a dog (think anubis)
also lucario is built for fighting, he has a well built muscular system
and is powerful http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/stat/attack.shtml
he is also fast, and knows how to fight

 

[payasofobia]

http://www.bio.davidson.edu/courses/anphys/2000/Hatfield/Hatfield2.htm and logic.

1) And his arms, body and neck are protected because of a superior amount of muscles and fat.The only frail part about Wario is perphaps his legs and head.

Lucario is weak everywhere except maybe his legs because of a lack of muscle.

2) True, may not be allowed.

3) Wario has big muscles to help him do fast and devastating jabs.

And muscles ARE important in attack speed and really make a difference. Just use a dumbell and realize how much faster your arm moves after the session.


And about the hit and run tactic....that is not going to work because Wario will endure more time than Lucario.

And lucario standing upright is going to hinder him because dogs are durable because of the way they move when they run, and since lucario stands upright, he won't be able to resist as much as a normal dog and much less than Wario.

Quoted for people to see.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Agh TEXT.

I can't read much b/c my eyes hurt like hell after being on here till like 3am.

But, I'll say this:
What happened to Lucario having the physique of a cat?

That is bull****. Lucario looks nothing like a cat.

Just look at JOE!'s comparison a few pages back.

 

[payasofobia]

you just took me to a link about dogs...
lucario resembles a jackal more than a dog (think anubis)
also lucario is built for fighting, he has a well built muscular system
and is powerful http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/stat/attack.shtml
he is also fast, and knows how to fight

Jackals are so similar to dogs that you can breed them.

Little to no difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canid_hybrid

 

[UncleSam]

Quoted for people to see.

because you edited it like 10 minutes later
1)you ppl are stressing lucario is short, leg shots are no problem
2)may? you need to re-phrase that
3)if you are doing a straight-on jab it can be slower than other strikes
and you need muscles for jabs, not kicks, kicks can wield tons of momentum to deal damage, and much more than jabs lucario's kicks>wario's jabs
why hit and run? break his leg wario won't be able to move and lucario can gouge him
lucario isn't a dog

But, I'll say this:
What happened to Lucario having the physique of a cat?

I know they are forgetting things and just writing over them

EDIT: @paya, I said think anubis, head of a jackal body of human/animal/demon-thing
lucario is stronger than you are think he is you just keep misunderstanding
EDIT2: lol I just noticed we can take these debates as win %
this is the third time we've re-discussed this lucario won the first 2 even if all of your nagging wins this Lucario still has majority
*un-subscribes*

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Long ears...check

Big hind legs.....check

Narrow mouth....check

Thin front legs....check

Big tail....check

 

[UncleSam]

EDIT2: lol I just noticed we can take these debates as win %
this is the third time we've re-discussed this lucario won the first 2 even if all of your nagging wins this Lucario still has majority
*un-subscribes*

quoted stating my opinion

picture

picture

Long ears...check

Big legs.....check

Narrow mouth....check

Thin front legs....check

lolwut?
O i c wut u did thar

 

[payasofobia]

Long ears...check

Big hind legs.....check

Narrow mouth....check

Thin front legs....check

Big tail....check

Lucario looks more like a jackal than a cat.

 

[Emperor Time]

Ambrodeus brought it up. I'd like to see what he has to say.

I think I might be going to sleep soon....my eyes...

EDIT:You know what I'm not digging about this fight? We're bringin' up the same points over and over again and not getting anywhere :s

 

[oldhat]

First: I'm not sure why everyone is calling Wario stupid. He invented the telmet "Behold the TELMET! Television! Teleportin'! And, uh, it's a helmet," (http://www.mariowiki.com/Telmet) and is the chairman of game maker WarioWare, Inc.

Second:
Lucario(s?) are 4' and 119.0 lbs. (http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/448.shtml)

"According to the Wario World instruction manual, Wario weighs 308 pounds, "(http://www.mariowiki.com/Wario#Physical_Appearance_and_Traits), and earlier in the thread someone said that he's 5'3".

Lucario a fighting master, but it's unrealistic to think that a walking dog, the size of a child, can beat a dude that weighs 200 pounds more than him and has 15" on him. Maybe Lucario judo him to the ground? This is real life, and those kinds of grapples don't work on someone that much bigger. Besides, Whatever advantages Lucario has by being a fighting type are offset by Wario's experience fighting little monsters, and being an Olympic athlete.


Edit: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL serious business.

 

[payasofobia]

Ambrodeus brought it up. I'd like to see what he has to say.

I think I might be going to sleep soon....my eyes...

EDIT:You know what I'm not digging about this fight? We're bringin' up the same points over and over again and not getting anywhere :s

The dog physiology is new, and Lucario not being a martial arts master.


Edit: this just in.

Uncle, this is just a match of many. Don't unsubscribe just because you lost this one.

 

[Emperor Time]

It's not over, sawn.

Still have the Wario is 308 pounds and Lucario is agile thing.

 

[REL38]

Lucario's stat is at 110.

Okay, then let's compare this to another Pokemon.

Machamp's stat is 130.

Nothing big, right?

Well, let's look at what the Pokedex says about Machamp:


Pokemon Yellow:
One arm alone can move mountains. Using all four arms, this Pokémon fires off awesome punches.

Pokemon FireRed:
Its four ruggedly developed arms can launch a flurry of 1,000 punches in just two seconds.

Pokemon Pearl:
It can knock a train flying with a punch. However, it is terrible at delicate work using its fingers.


So if a Pokemon with a Base Attack Stat of 130 can MOVE MOUNTAINS, then what kind of power does Lucario have if he's only 20 points lower?

The problem with giving Lucario such strength makes it extremely unrealistic. So apparently Lucario can punch 800 times in two seconds? So Lucario can't necessarily move a mountain, but move an oil tanker with ease? That would be COMPLETELY unrealistic.

How does his body structure allow for such overwhelming amounts of strength? Wouldn't his muscles tear apart from punching at such great speeds?

You use his stats from Pokemon games when they defy the laws of Anatomy. Because of this, we gotta go with the realistic route of comparing Lucario to a Jackel that can walk on it's hind legs and doesn't afraid of anything.