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TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

Uffe

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Mewtwo isn't a god. And lol @ you sayiing Ness' attacks don't kill. Yeah, where in Pokemon does Mewtwo ever do that? Wait, he doesn't. Also, really, still going with the blood boiling bit? Haha! Yeah, what part of the movie did he ever do that? Where in the Pokedex did it ever say that? Stop pulling **** out of your *** and prove it. Oh, Mewtwo knows all and sees all, but no, Ness can't do that, even though he's psychic. Chances are if he can speak through his mind, he can read peoples mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15c4Z3fxRa0

It's not canon, but still, it tells us about the character.
 

Emperor Time

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Really?

How could Ness detect that if he doesn't enter M2's mind?

All Mewtwo needs to do is get inside, and it's OVER. Mewtwo is a creation stronger than anything Ness has ever faced. What we need to do is stop treating M2 like a normal thing Ness fights against. Rules applying to the people Ness has defeated may not and probably will not apply to M2.

The question is, what are you not getting.



See, that's my point.
Stopped reading at the bold text.
 

Uffe

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Stopped reading at the bold text.
Here. http://earthbound.wikia.com/wiki/Giygas It says that Giygas' HP is 9999. I can't really say that Giygas has that much HP, but maybe someone hacked it and found his max HP? I don't know. I know for a fact that Mewtwo's HP goes up to 416. I can't recall how much Ness has when he's at level 100, however. I know this isn't if they were true to their games, but I thought I'd bring it up just to show you guys.

@ Salem: Giygas and Mewtwo aren't that similar. Mewtwo looks like Giygas, but that's about it.

EDIT: I'm done for the night.
 

REL38

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still that doesn't implode somebody's brain. I want to bash REL's quote because that was just stupid.
and for the light to do that it would have to be very concentrated. doesn't that take time?



trufax

enjoy cherrim ppl
Seemed like a good idea on paper, but it could still blind him :p

Don't hate.

And Mewtwo and Giygas aren't very similar other than appearance.
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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Here. http://earthbound.wikia.com/wiki/Giygas It says that Giygas' HP is 9999. I can't really say that Giygas has that much HP, but maybe someone hacked it and found his max HP? I don't know. I know for a fact that Mewtwo's HP goes up to 416. I can't recall how much Ness has when he's at level 100, however. I know this isn't if they were true to their games, but I thought I'd bring it up just to show you guys.

@ Salem: Giygas and Mewtwo aren't that similar. Mewtwo looks like Giygas, but that's about it.

EDIT: I'm done for the night.
We're not going off HP. This goes beyond games, he said.
 

Rialdospaldacht

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I still need proof that Ness can think faster than Mewtwo. If he can't, all these defenses, all these attacks, they mean nothing.
 

Beren Zaiga

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Mewtwo can learn Flash, unfortunately not naturally.

However, Mewtwo has two moves that can help him that he DOES learn naturally in the D & P games and up (Hey, I am using the information I can find so you guys can't completely one-side this. Seeing as your basing Ness's ability to beat Mewtwo on one move alone). There is two moves that can help Mewtwo against Ness....no, make that three.

Power Swap, Guard Swap, and Safeguard. These attacks I would assume do not require set up.

Mewtwo uses Power Swap, it swaps Attack and SP.ATTCK witht he target, how do you think this would translate for an EarthBound Character? It would translate to Offense and IQ. What happens to Ness's PK Flash? Well, depending on how were taking the situation into mind, it could either get vastly stronger or vastly weaker.

Now Guard Swap, as it's name implies, it trades DEF and SP.DEF with the target. What happens to Ness's Defense and IQ (Assuming they are considered the same, correct me if I am wrong). Again, it could get vastly stronger or weaker.

Now Safeguard, would probably benefit Mewtwo the most, it would guard him from the extra effects of PK Flash. It is certainly helpful, but marginally.

You guys are talking about this MU as if Ness would use PK Flash right away.
 

REL38

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@Beren

Power Swap and Guard Swap only work if the opponent makes alterations to their stats. In this case, if Ness used some type of item boosting his PSI power's then Mewtwo would get it. It doesn't just switch off all willy-nilly.

Besides, how would he go about switching IQ? It makes no sense.

Safe Guard would only keep him from getting the additional affects, but he'd still get hit.
 

Beren Zaiga

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Keyword is SWAP. As in they switch, description reads that they swap their respective stat types.

I think your notion about alterations needing to occur first is malarkey and bologna.

Yes, he would still be hit, I am aware of this, I am not treating Safeguard as a shield nor did I imply it. I clearly stated it could keep him from getting the additional effects.

This means if he can survive (I have no doubt that he could survive it by some margin), Insert Recover, Mewtwo uses his psychic abilities to speed up his body's healing process, realistically, this is not a wise move in terms of his lifespan. Think on that one a bit. Ness would be mentally drained, as it would take an enormous amount of energy to use PK Flash, yes? That leaves Ness vulnerable if Mewtwo survives.

I remember reading earlier that someone said that it could nearly kill anything. Mewtwo, being a psychic, can be part of that margin, and with Recover, he can survive, then respond.


Do not deny this. *Knows it will happen anyway since practically everyone is biased against Mewtwo*
 

REL38

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"Guard/Power swap switches any CHANGES to the user's Defense/Attack stat and Sp. Defense/Attack stat with any CHANGES to the targets Defense/Attack stat and Sp. Defense/Attack stat."

quoted for truth from Bulbapedia.
Get some.
 

Uffe

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I still need proof that Ness can think faster than Mewtwo. If he can't, all these defenses, all these attacks, they mean nothing.
And you still haven't proven that Mewtwo thinks faster than Ness. Good games.

Mewtwo can learn Flash, unfortunately not naturally.

However, Mewtwo has two moves that can help him that he DOES learn naturally in the D & P games and up (Hey, I am using the information I can find so you guys can't completely one-side this. Seeing as your basing Ness's ability to beat Mewtwo on one move alone). There is two moves that can help Mewtwo against Ness....no, make that three.
If anything is one-sides it was Mewtwo people saying that Mewtwo would win just by boiling Ness' blood and some other pish posh that have no proof.

Power Swap, Guard Swap, and Safeguard. These attacks I would assume do not require set up.

Mewtwo uses Power Swap, it swaps Attack and SP.ATTCK witht he target, how do you think this would translate for an EarthBound Character? It would translate to Offense and IQ. What happens to Ness's PK Flash? Well, depending on how were taking the situation into mind, it could either get vastly stronger or vastly weaker.

Now Guard Swap, as it's name implies, it trades DEF and SP.DEF with the target. What happens to Ness's Defense and IQ (Assuming they are considered the same, correct me if I am wrong). Again, it could get vastly stronger or weaker.
It's impossible to swap IQ. You'd be better off bashing someone's brains in just for them to get brain damage. Another thing, Ness doesn't have special attack or special defense. Also, if Ness is truly the weaker character, why would Mewtwo take that risk to decrease his attack and defense?

Now Safeguard, would probably benefit Mewtwo the most, it would guard him from the extra effects of PK Flash. It is certainly helpful, but marginally.

You guys are talking about this MU as if Ness would use PK Flash right away.
If Mewtwo uses Safeguard, wouldn't that increase the chances of getting killed by PSI Flash? You have to remember that PSI Flash Beta is all it really takes. PSI Flash Omega would do a whole lot better, no doubt. But to rid of all status changes, that'd just leave PSI Flash Beta as a killer move.

Do not deny this. *Knows it will happen anyway since practically everyone is biased against Mewtwo*
I think at this point we have more people rooting for Mewtwo than Ness. They like to think that Ness is just some boy who wouldn't survive the beginning of this fight. So far the bias side is the Mewtwo side.

Well, really, if they teleport infinitely, Mewtwo will win, since Ness will die of natural causes...
Natural causes? What? :laugh:
 

tgsos

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I just registered. I was reading through this thread (what the hell was I thinking...) and noticed some things. Things like the gross exaggeration of Mewtwo's power.

I'm not going to get into what M2's power in the movie would translate to in a battle, although I will say that anyone saying his IQ's higher than 200 is full of the rankest bullpoop, as no one's IQ can get that high. Not even because of POWER LEVELS OF PUNY HUMANS CANNOT MATCH reasons, but because statistically that's impossible. 200 is the highest. M2's IQ can only ever top at 200, and then every other living being gets a lower number because of it. Hell, from what I remember from Psychology class, nothing can ever have an IQ of 200 since that would mean that's it's smarter than everything INCLUDING itself (REALITY DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY, IN CASE YOU WERE WONDERING. YOU ARE NOT SMARTER THAN YOURSELF.). That's how IQ works. A better, actually understandable explanation that might prove me stupid can be found here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailTheIQTest
The following may also help you understand: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouFailStatisticsForever

Also, M2 is not the strongest PKMN. Nope. Not even talking in-game statwise (He'd be second only to GAWD!!! if we were talking game stats). He is not a god. Demigod might even be stretching it. Mew didn't create life, it just evolved into it. Think of traveling back in time to DINOSAURS!!! and looking around the bushes for a while. You might find some horrible, deformed, vaguely weasel-like thing. The ancestor of all mammals. Mew is kind of like that, only adorable and horrendously powerful. NOT A GOD. Dialga and Palkia can be considered gods. Groudon and Kyogre can be considered gods. Arceus apparently IS God (capital G). Mewtwo? He can do fancy things with weather by thinking about it hard enough. Kyogre's very presence does that. Mewtwo doesn't create oceans and continents; doesn't control time and space. Mewtwo is an atom bomb amongst actual GODS in Pokemon. Powerful, but in the end is a creation, and not the creator. He is not the end-all to Pokemon. He isn't even the end-all to Psychics. Palkia seems to enjoy that spot immensely. Mewtwo can be defeated in his own world; any world in which he appears.

AND ON THAT NOTE... having variable sources from which fans can draw powers makes things stupid really quick.

I like how people throw out statements like "LOL MYUUTSUU AM GOD BECAUSE OF X THING HE DOES IN GAME, AND Y THING HE DOES IN ANIMU, AND Z THING HE DOES IN MOVIE, AND IT'S ALL CANON"

What's canon?

No really. What's canon? The movies, the anime, the game, the manga? Which one overrides the rest? From what I've seen, neatly explained here: - http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Canon - the answer is NONE. Unless you're talking terms of what the creator liked, in which case you've got the Special manga (and anyone defending M2 power levels gets shot down really quick when we start talking Special), there is no absolute canon. It's all multiple, mostly exclusive universes. Powers in anime do not correspond to M2's in games and manga and vice versa. Apparently, the movies aren't even canon to the anime, since they're all almost always (ALLITERATION) purely speculative. So the M2 in the movies isn't even the same as the one in the anime. And all the M2's vary in power. Game M2 is very powerful, but not a god-like being. Anime M2 is quite stronger than game M2. Movie M2 is the one that can be considered a demigod, as he seems to have great, nearly involuntary, control over his immediate environment. Movie M2 also comes with the greatest emotional (read: Distracting) load, since the poor guy goes on a rampage because he is an artificial being and not a being made by God (HA! HA! Japanese overrides English canon. This is stuff I've merely HEARD by the by, so I might be wrong on some/all details of the Japanese first movie), and seeks to prove that he is just as good as Daddy, who is apparently an arrogant little pink jerkwad. Manga M2 I believe only shows up in Special. This is where he gets depowered something awful. M2 gets his gigantic purple tail handed to him by a group of Dragonite (their Hyper Beams can destroy large parts of a city in this. Make of it what you will.). During the aforementioned dragon-ownage period, he was caught by Red in a Master Ball (didn't just say NTY and kill Red) and later found to be bound to Blaine in such a way that they couldn't be separated more than a few meters without both dying. Also, Mewtwo fought the dragons with a giant spoon, so that's pretty rad. Later, Entei cures Mewtwo (at least proving that Entei is stronger at some things, mainly HEALING, than M2) and frees him from the psychic death bond to Blaine. He takes this opportunity to go KTHXBAI. He returns later to mess up Deoxys. That was actually a fights, so Manga M2 at his strongest has difficulty dealing with a shapeshifting alien. It might have had something to with Giovanni trying to kill Red at the same time, though. So yeah, the Movie Mewtwo is strongest, but comes at the price of being the most easily manipulated and mentally weak (Mew just kinda trolled him into raging in the movie, so talking can still affect M2). Manga M2 is the one closest to whatever anyone considers canon (there's still no absolute canon though), but is the weakest. Game M2 has nothing to do with any of them. You get the picture.

So choose a Mewtwo, because making a delicious M2 casserole doesn't fly. He should get one canon to choose from. In whatever case, HE IS NOT A GOD, AND HAS VERY EXPLOITABLE WEAKNESSES. Ness has an advantage over Movie version, since we all know how annoying 12-year-olds can be, or however old he is. Manga version gets a kick-butt spoon to duel with. But they exist in different continuities, so they aren't the same.

As a response to "random dude what stated that Ness has never fought something stronger than M2"... uhh... M2 ain't a god. He CANNOT destroy a planet. Giygas CAN. Ness lasts really long against that being before dropping the Idiot Ball (or rather, the player stops being a tardicus and tries the most useless attack a few times) and unleashing the EB equivalent of a Spirit Bomb. Also, at his strongest, NESS IS A ROBOT. So yeah. Be better at things than a psychic, time-traveling, Cthulhu-punching ROBOT, Mewtwo. I dare ya.

I didn't bring out the WALL OF TEXT stick on Ness because I haven't read the manga...

I'm hungry.
 

Uffe

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It almost makes me want to be his friend. That's how good that read was. XD I hope he comes back. Seriously. And it'd be even cooler if he plays Super Smash Bros. competitively.
 

Cassius.

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Wooooooooooooooooooooooow.

I just read all of that. That dude was amazing lmfao. Good good read o_O
 

JOE!

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one thing never mentioned:

Mewtwo does things, and affects the world around him AT THE SPEED OF THOUGHT

now, can Ness react that fast? or even do things at the speed of that for that matter?

As of now im thinking M2 ccould just control ness from the instant he;s aware of his presence, and seeing as Ness cannot read minds, he wouldnt know M2 was psychic right away, and would be unable to quickly put up a PSI shield or such...


*shrug*

@ dude with big text:

we consolidate all versions of a character into one, like we did with the Links, Zeldas and I beleive bowsers in past fights.

We essentially create the "generic" brawler based on all their appearances.

Tale actually, Ness for example. Say in earthbound 1 he had X ability, and in Eb 2 he was in a different universe 9say like how link appears several times) and lost X ability, but Gained ability Y.

He would have both here. seeing as they would both be ness.


The only exception was Ganondorf, simply becaus ehe had 3 versions, which unlike anyone else, were so VASTLY different...

It is kindof like in the actual show:

They take the "generic" warrior and pit it against the other "generic" warrior.

They could easily have say, Spartacus vs radom Apache, or Random gladiator vs Apache War Hero....but they consolidate them as if saying they just took two great examples of their warriors.
 

Uffe

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one thing never mentioned:

Mewtwo does things, and affects the world around him AT THE SPEED OF THOUGHT

now, can Ness react that fast? or even do things at the speed of that for that matter?
Where is the proof of this? It took awhile for him to even conjure up a storm. He didn't suddenly think it and it was that was so suddenly.

As of now im thinking M2 ccould just control ness from the instant he;s aware of his presence, and seeing as Ness cannot read minds, he wouldnt know M2 was psychic right away, and would be unable to quickly put up a PSI shield or such...
You can't prove or disprove that Ness can read minds. I'd think that if you're able to communicate through your mind, you'd be able to read thoughts as well. Again, as of right now or perhaps never, could anybody prove or disprove this. That video I showed yesterday with Snake's codec about Ness showing, Snake asks if Ness can read peoples thoughts and the Coronel says, "Not to my knowledge, no." So it's kind of hard to tell whether or not he can.


*shrug*

@ dude with big text:

we consolidate all versions of a character into one, like we did with the Links, Zeldas and I beleive bowsers in past fights.

We essentially create the "generic" brawler based on all their appearances.

Tale actually, Ness for example. Say in earthbound 1 he had X ability, and in Eb 2 he was in a different universe 9say like how link appears several times) and lost X ability, but Gained ability Y.

He would have both here. seeing as they would both be ness.
In Mother, you play as Ninten. Ninten and Ness aren't the same characters. Also, that new guy actually made a good point. Technically they're not all the same Mewtwo since neither one is canon with one another. That's almost like saying the Captain Falcon from F-Zero: Falcon Densetsu is the same one from the video games. But they're not because the game takes place in 2560 while the anime takes place in 2201. Technically yes, they're the same character, but at the same time, neither storyline is canon. Same with the Pokemon games, mangas and anime.

Because in the games, Mewtwo gets caught and he's limited to four attacks, while the one in the anime is never actually caught. And in the manga, I do believe that Red or Ash, whoever it is catches Mewtwo. Correct me if I am wrong, people who've read the manga. Someone else brought it up in the "If characters were true to their game" topic.
 

JOE!

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Uffe, then link wouldnt have acess to anything other than what he had in like the first game.

we consolidate all appearances if they are the same character, unless the differences between appearances are SO different (like ganondorf)

As for speed of thought, he affects the world around him by thinking, at least when he does telekinesis. Therefor he just needs to THINK, and it happens.

Also, Ness hasnt shown any mind reading abilities...Mewtwo has.
 

Beren Zaiga

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I say we takeaway their Psychic powers and give them each a weapon. Ness gets his bat....While Mewtwo gets a FORKLIFT- (<-Epic Win if you get the reference) I mean a baseball bat as well.
 

UncleSam

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I say we takeaway their Psychic powers and give them each a weapon. Ness gets his bat....While Mewtwo gets a FORKLIFT- (<-Epic Win if you get the reference) I mean a baseball bat as well.
I C uwt U did thar...
what happened?
*looks back*
lol poor tocador, got owned.
and lol@Uffe
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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K, @ big post.

That's pretty much what I realized eventually, not all of it, but some of it dawned on me, but I'm lazy so I didn't type it out.

Now do you people agree with me that this **** is a draw?

EDIT: Whoops, also, the reason I say this is a draw is this: If that smart dude would have made a post like that for Ness, he'd MOST LIKELY say just about the same thing (not content [LOL NESS IS A POKEMANZ] but just the same general gist of things).
 
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