TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[adumbrodeus]

we gave Snake a flash-bang grenade and the taser knife from MSG4

...

Wow. So, did Joe just go through the list and pick his least effective weapons?

That is seriously complete BS, he's got access to a wide variety of other weapons, including at least one a few flash-bangs would be standard issue, but he's covert ops, he'd be carrying a variety of explosives including my favorite, c4 plastic explosives, probably a claymore mine or two (those things are heavy, so probably not more then that), and more.

In addittion to that, he'd have one of two setups for guns, a sniper rifle plus a machine pistol as a back-up weapon, or some form of automatic rifle (MK 16 for example) with a pistol as back-up. Extra rounds for both of course.


And yes, a knife of some sort, as well as survival equitment, the taser knife is realistic, so it works.


Don't forget the monitoring equipment, like some form of night vison device as well as binoculars or the like (think the solid eye, but less advanced).

And that was bull****.

Even if snake had a gun he would still struggle against DK in the right setting...

hint: a jungle....or an heliport with lots of crates.

DK would not be screwed if we had established the setting like we did in previous (and I mean OLD) MUs.

Firstly, that only works in the most advantageous to DK settings. The previous match-ups, we attempted to chose the most neutral settings instead of ones that were a particular character friendly.


Also, you're wrong, snake is a covert ops agent, areas like that would allow him to use that training for tracking purposes and stealth purposes.

He's also better suited for that because DK's coloring is all wrong for that (the bright tie also gets in the way) and the simply fact that gorillas aren't built for stealth.


The battle will most likely end when DK walks into a mine, or snake tosses a grenade at him, or detonates a pack of C4, but if they somehow see each other, and Snake has covered the area, one of his guns will rip right through DK. If DK sees Snake first, then Snake will be alerted by the sounds that DK makes attempting to approach.


That should be a no contest, Snake's victory by a massive margin, when armed REALISTICALLY.

we gave Snake a flash-bang grenade and the taser knife from MSG4

each one does seem to have a counter for the other...


Anyways, @ Amb:

Either i "fix" certain characters to make an interesting fight, or we end up with what I did with G7W and ROB: i cannot even discuss them because they wont ever work. Or, they would be so bad that they can only beat things gimper than them.

Ok, then drop characters like that from the thread. And if people ask say, "does not work". If it's revealed during the thread that characters hopelessly phail irl, put them in an "omg, you suck so hard" category and ignore them after that, you know, like what should've happened to MK and kirby.

I meant after he does it, the light is undodgeable.

After Mewtwo attacks, the attack can still be dodged.

Ummm, light is dodged by putting something in front of it. High gravity also changes the path (actually any gravity), and lenses of any sort can change the path without being directly affected. So can mirrors.


Also, mewtwo could negate it as he's trying to start it up.

 

[tocador]

But the point is the same, if ness can ohko anyone with this move, how he couldnt kill gygas with it? Plus, if light goes to all direction at insane speed, as soon as ness uses this move he will die, because light will strike him.

@Adub: He remembered me of something, mewtwo can create gravitational fields that can stop anything thrown at him, such as light.

G_G

@Sam: What the ****? My classes started for about a bit more then 1 month.

 

[UncleSam]

@Sam: What the ****? My classes started for about a bit more then 1 month.

I live in America...
oh wait that isn't something to be proud of anymore is it?
anyway school starts in september for me

 

[tocador]

I live in america too!

Spoiler

south america

But here is the oposite, in december we have 2-3 months of vacation, and in july we have 1 month or 15 days.

 

[UncleSam]

I live in america too!

Spoiler

south america

But here is the oposite, in december we have 2-3 months of vacation, and in july we have 1 month or 15 days.

1 month OR 15 days? wtf?

 

[tocador]

Yeah, it depends on where you live. Usually in south southeast its 15 days because its colder, whereas in north/northeast/center its 1 month.

@Adumb: With all the equipments he ahs acess too sure, snake would win. I still think Joe nerfed snake too much.

A even scenario would be "Glock + Sniper or assault riffle + 1 flash 1 smoke 1 c4 + knife + octocamo". This would make him good, but not metaknight broken good.

This discussion is kinda awkward because both guys(or pokemons i dont care) have this super psy powers, and they can basically own anyone they want with it. I think the real battle starts when they see each other and decide what to do. Becausethey both are pretty bad ***.

 

[JOE!]

twoguirlsonecup

O.O

anywho, Snake was nerfed becaus eanything other thn the weapons I gave him wouldve been, like you said, instant win. And then there would be no discussion.


as for "phail" characters: same thing, the thread would last nowhere near as long

 

[UncleSam]

This discussion is kinda awkward because both guys(or pokemons i dont care) have this super psy powers, and they can basically own anyone they want with it. I think the real battle starts when they see each other and decide what to do. Becausethey both are pretty bad ***.

twoguirlsonecup

O.O

what is with the extra U?
that shouldn't be there tocador

 

[adumbrodeus]

twoguirlsonecup

O.O

anywho, Snake was nerfed becaus eanything other thn the weapons I gave him wouldve been, like you said, instant win. And then there would be no discussion.

Then let it be an instant win. Having it otherwise compromises the thread and makes it uninteresting.

as for "phail" characters: same thing, the thread would last nowhere near as long

Same as above.


There's plenty of material and you don't even need to make it last forever.

 

[tocador]

Mewtwo > all, just for the sake of trolling.

ops. editing it.

Edit: Thanks sam.

 

[JOE!]

Same as above.


There's plenty of material and you don't even need to make it last forever.

samus, snake, then one of the spacies would just win every time then.

Expalin how thered be more content?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

>__>

I dunno about Mewtwo versus Ness. They're both psionicists and they're both pretty broken.

Smooth Criminal

 

[UncleSam]

Mewtwo > all, just for the sake of trolling.

lol I had to

 

[adumbrodeus]

samus, snake, then one of the spacies would just win every time then.

Expalin how thered be more content?

Samus.


But that doesn't mean that other brackets can't be interesting.


As it stands, the threads pretty pointless because we never know when they'll be a "Joe ruling", and a character gets nerfed to the point where he's basically useless or buffed to the point where he suddenly wins a match-up he should.


The point of all this was to logically illustrate why a certain character wins against another in the specified conditions (aka, IRL). With the ability to change those conditions, not just at whim, but to selectively edit match-ups, debating them becomes pointless and the thread becomes boring and uninteresting.



As far as content goes, I never said there would be more, just what's available would be better.

 

[tocador]

lol I had to

I know this.

 

[payasofobia]

Ummm, light is dodged by putting something in front of it. High gravity also changes the path (actually any gravity), and lenses of any sort can change the path without being directly affected. So can mirrors.


Also, mewtwo could negate it as he's trying to start it up.

I am aware of that, but first, he needs to change the gravitational field or get an object close to him in order for it to reflect the light.

Ike f-smash vs MK d-smash and all that...

 

[tocador]

Creating gravitational fields dont take time :D.

Pretty much like light.

 

[payasofobia]

How do you know that?

And how will Mewtwo create a black hole without being sucked in?

Light is only sucked in by extremely high gravities (I.E Black Holes), Mewtwo suddenly making gravity go up a little in a single place is not going to work.


And Mewtwo moving an object to reflect light won't work unless he does it instantly, and if he does then the friction will burn the object to a crisp.


And unless Mewtwo has an opaque barrier, the light will go thru it with no problems.

 

[tgsos]

All Your Carefully Worded Arguments Are Meaningless

Mewtwo > all, just for the sake of trolling.

Mewtwo was here, Ness' game stinks.

FATALITY

 

[JOE!]

but amb, it wouldnt be interesting unless we only did the few characters that actually use weapons, and once we find out which ones are best, it's over...

 

[adumbrodeus]

but amb, it wouldnt be interesting unless we only did the few characters that actually use weapons, and once we find out which ones are best, it's over...

But it's the match-ups not against those characters that are interesting, and furthermore debating to figure out who has the most powerful weapons.


Furthermore, you're forgetting about individual advantages, even the best character might have weaknesses against certain others.


Overall, it's a lot more interesting then, "let's debate for a bit, and then Joe enhances one of the two so it wins, or nerfs the other for the same effect".


See the problem, under the current system it's pointless to debate, because you provide ruling to "fix match-ups", causing the victor to essentially be, "whoever the **** Joe feels like".


And that's just not interesting.

How do you know that?

And how will Mewtwo create a black hole without being sucked in?

Light is only sucked in by extremely high gravities (I.E Black Holes), Mewtwo suddenly making gravity go up a little in a single place is not going to work.

Ok, firstly, it's time requirement is completely a function of the time required to create hyper-compression, which means it's entirely a function of mewtwo's level of power and control.


As far as your understanding of gravity...

No, just no.


Gravity's effect decreases as a factor of distance from the object squared (in laymen's terms, that means that being farther away decreases the effect FAST).


Because of this it's possible to create extremely powerful localized locations of high gravity that barely affect areas outside of the intended AOE. I was talking about micro-black holes earlier in the thread, well that's exactly what we're talking about.


Understand, it does need to be extremely powerful to effect this, just powerful enough to create a blind spot by changing the angle of surrounding light waves, and only sucking in those directly aimed at it.


Here, let me show you how it works.





Gravity warps surrounding space towards itself. Light going directly in is absorded, light not going in either orbits it (if close enough) or is simply redirected. This will create a "shadow" far larger then the black hole itself, and greater the distance, the larger the shadow.


Using multiple very localized high-gravity locations, you can create a very large shadow. Ultimately the objective is to overwhelm the ambient gravity.


These high-gravity areas can be any size or even any mass, as long as they're CONCENTRATED.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

I drew a sketch of Mewtwo and Ness playing Psionic Chess.

Who would be the winner?

Also, lets not forget he created the entirety of the island he inhabited in the movie all by himself with his Psychic power. To move and mold heavy pieces of metal into an entire building with just your mind takes a vast amount of psionic energy to achieve. Making it structurally sound probably makes it even more of a challenge.

See Ness do THAT.

Just throwing that out there. >__> *Bored and thinking of playing Brawl for a bit after weeks of downtime.

 

[payasofobia]

Hmmm.....I see.

Then I guess this is a draw.

SOLID was half-right.



But...does Mewtwo really have the power to affect gravity in such a way?

Gardevoir can do it, but it says that she has the psychokinetic power to create black holes, but it does not say that Mewtwo has it....but whatever.

 

[Uffe]

Uffe, then link wouldnt have acess to anything other than what he had in like the first game.

we consolidate all appearances if they are the same character, unless the differences between appearances are SO different (like ganondorf)

As for speed of thought, he affects the world around him by thinking, at least when he does telekinesis. Therefor he just needs to THINK, and it happens.

Also, Ness hasnt shown any mind reading abilities...Mewtwo has.

But most Link's aren't the same Link. Ganondorf on the other hand is. And Mewtwo may think something and it starts to happen, but it doesn't happen at the snap of a finger tip. He doesn't think it and it's suddenly the way he wants it. It took time. And if Mewtwo can really overcome Ness, why is it that in the game he can get caught? And if it's true that in the manga he gets caught, then it really tells us that even though he's strong, he can still be taken down, even by someone who has no psychic ability.

still asking: does Ness need to cast his attacks? we know all mewtwo has to do is think, but can ness do the same or does he have to go through "PK.....blah blah!"

In the game you choose your attack just like you would in Pokemon. There is nowhere in the game where anybody says, "PK <insertattacknamehere>". Just like in X-Men. Does Cyclops yell out, "Optic Blast,"? Not in the cartoon, but in MvC2, he does. And we all know the cartoon came out before the game.

@paya: Mewtwo can blow things with his mind, whereas ness best move is to make light appear to make people dizzy.

I dont see the logic in your post.

Light flashes. It doesn't stay in one spot. In other words, if Mewtwo is anywhere around Ness, chances are he'll get hit.

If it it a flash...... It wont do anything.

It's not just a flash. If it can kill, it must hurt.

wormhole?
that's a possible way to dodge it.
and since apparently M2 can create black holes a wormhole should be easy

EDIT: paya your at 666 stop posting

I don't think Mewtwo can create blackholes. Just because Gardavoire can doesn't mean Mewtwo can. Again, that'd be like saying because Charizard can melt boulders with his fire, Rapidash must be able to as well.

There are canon things, and there are not canon things.

In his game ness was affected by fire attacks, even light ones. So why is he imune to a flesh-melting light, if it does the same thing as fire?

The only answer is, in his games, he dosent kill people, he knocks them out with sheer brightness of the lights. Therefore, it shouldnt do anything to mewtwo ^^.

@Everyone: What the heck, arent you guys suposed to be studing or at school? I mean, everyday i post here at this time, no one is here, and now you guys are, how is that ><?

Most likely a game mechanic or their attacks isn't strong enough. Or perhaps Ness is immune to it? After all, it'd be boring if you were to die in the game. Anyway, Ness has Life-Up. He can heal himself even after taking mortal damage. And PSI Flash does kill. If you're going to say that it only knocks people out, same could be said about all of Mewtwo's attacks. You know, making Pokemon faint?

But the point is the same, if ness can ohko anyone with this move, how he couldnt kill gygas with it? Plus, if light goes to all direction at insane speed, as soon as ness uses this move he will die, because light will strike him.

First off, Giygas is much more superior than Ness. PSI Flash wouldn't simply kill him and I can't exactly explain why other than he's got the defense to survive it. As for why PSI Flash doesn't kill Ness, think of it as a person who can control time. Would it make any sense to control time and yet not be able to move through it? You can look at some of the characters from Castlevania being able to control time and move through it or Hiro from Heroes. Why doesn't Samus' Bombs or Power Bombs kill her but kills everyone around her?

And NoA are douche bags.

 

[UncleSam]

I don't think Mewtwo can create blackholes. Just because Gardavoire can doesn't mean Mewtwo can. Again, that'd be like saying because Charizard can melt boulders with his fire, Rapidash must be able to as well.

you did not just say that.
*waits for adum to reply to Uffe's post*

 

[tocador]

Because spamus is a woman, and she can ***** about it.

Ness is man, mans need to take things straight and cant ***** about it.

ps: Mewtwo > Ness

@Stupid comparison by uffe: LoL, its like saying "charmander can cast ember, but i doubt arceus fire type would be able to do it".

 

[Uffe]

Because spamus is a woman, and she can ***** about it.

Ness is man, mans need to take things straight and cant ***** about it.

ps: Mewtwo > Ness

@Stupid comparison by uffe: LoL, its like saying "charmander can cast ember, but i doubt arceus fire type would be able to do it".

Actually that's a good comparison. Ember is basically like burning ashes. It'd make more sense if any fire Pokemon could do that.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Because spamus is a woman, and she can ***** about it.

Ness is man, mans need to take things straight and cant ***** about it.

ps: Mewtwo > Ness

@Stupid comparison by uffe: LoL, its like saying "charmander can cast ember, but i doubt arceus fire type would be able to do it".

I would not be proud right now.

If Adum had not come back, you would have gotten your *** kicked....like always.



Anyway, now that the gravity argument has been brought up, I don't think there is a clear winner here.

Both are very powerful psychics.

Mewtwo is the ultimate pokemon while Ness has earth's energy to increase his psychic energy.

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

It never said Rapidash was better with fire than Charizard. Where Mewtwo, on the other hand, is supported as being better psychically than Gardevoir by pretty much any source.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

I call this a draw. 500/500
I'm gonna check the Bowser boards then go look for people to play matches with online (I live in Olathe, not many people here that I know play Brawl at all).

 

[payasofobia]

Ok, firstly, it's time requirement is completely a function of the time required to create hyper-compression, which means it's entirely a function of mewtwo's level of power and control.


As far as your understanding of gravity...

No, just no.


Gravity's effect decreases as a factor of distance from the object squared (in laymen's terms, that means that being farther away decreases the effect FAST).


Because of this it's possible to create extremely powerful localized locations of high gravity that barely affect areas outside of the intended AOE. I was talking about micro-black holes earlier in the thread, well that's exactly what we're talking about.


Understand, it does need to be extremely powerful to effect this, just powerful enough to create a blind spot by changing the angle of surrounding light waves, and only sucking in those directly aimed at it.


Here, let me show you how it works.





Gravity warps surrounding space towards itself. Light going directly in is absorded, light not going in either orbits it (if close enough) or is simply redirected. This will create a "shadow" far larger then the black hole itself, and greater the distance, the larger the shadow.


Using multiple very localized high-gravity locations, you can create a very large shadow. Ultimately the objective is to overwhelm the ambient gravity.


These high-gravity areas can be any size or even any mass, as long as they're CONCENTRATED.

Hmmm.....but still, wouldn't a micro black hole rapidly evaporate because of it's greatly diminished mass and wouldn't that require Mewtwo to concentrate on making multiple black holes multiple times in order to dodge the barrage of pk flashes Ness has prepared for him? Or keep concentration in order to keep the mass of said black hole if he does not want to make more black hole?

And wouldn't Ness be able to use other attacks while Mewtwo is concentrating on them?


Or create his own black holes?



And how would Mewtwo create his own black holes if he first needs to create a very poweful collision in order to create them, or make an object's pressure be unable to resist it's own gravity?


And if he in fact can do that, can he do it fast enough to redirect the flash of light?

 

[Uffe]

It never said Rapidash was better with fire than Charizard. Where Mewtwo, on the other hand, is supported as being better psychically than Gardevoir by pretty much any source.

So then I guess Espeon can make blackholes and other Pokemon as well. So wait, if psychic types can do that, then Ness can too! No. You see, the thing is, Mewtwo's never displayed this sort of thing.

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

So then I guess Espeon can make blackholes and other Pokemon as well. So wait, if psychic types can do that, then Ness can too! No. You see, the thing is, Mewtwo's never displayed this sort of thing.

Doesn't work. Espeon's never even been hinted at to be better than Gardevoir.

And I don't see why Ness couldn't; the thing is, would he think of it?

 

[payasofobia]

Doesn't work. Espeon's never even been hinted at to be better than Gardevoir.

And I don't see why Ness couldn't; the thing is, would he think of it?

Espeon has a sp attack of 130 while gardevoir has one of 125.

Espeon also has a total stat of 525 while gardevoir has 518.

 

[Uffe]

Doesn't work. Espeon's never even been hinted at to be better than Gardevoir.

And I don't see why Ness couldn't; the thing is, would he think of it?

And that's the thing. Just because one Pokemon can do something doesn't mean another one can.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

See, you guys should listen to me.

No one responds when I say it's a draw several pages back but now everyone says it is.

>_> We could have not wasted some argument and moved on. Good job, everyone except Adum and myself...

 

[REL38]

Perhaps Gardevoir's anatomy allows for it. Or maybe she has just the right brain enhancements that would allow her to make a blackhole.

There are two people who play soccer. One is an expert at juggling the ball while the other has awesome offensive game. The first one can bounce it 100 times straight. Does that mean the other can too?

No.

Luxray, an electric Pokemon can see through walls. But does that mean that Zapdos can too?

No.

Gardevoir creating black holes is an ability held only by her. You can't say Mewtwo can too just cuz he's a better Psychic.

If you were too say that if Kadabra can bend spoons, then can Mewtwo then that would make sense. Psychic's are known to do that so obviously Mewtwo can do it better.

Mewtwo can't make blackholes just cuz Gardevoir can.
That bull.

 

[payasofobia]

I'll just wait for adum's post to decide my stance on this fight.

And SOLID, we did not listen to you because what you said was not convincing.

I am still kind of sure that Ness has this.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Or maybe she has just the right brain enhancements that would allow her to make a blackhole.

Wow, way to help us prove you wrong.

Mewtwo has the highest IQ of any Pokemon and is created by scientists.

Nice job.

@paya: No, you didn't listen because you're stubborn. My idea was simple, and it took something more complicated for any of you to change your minds, and even now some of you haven't.

Why are you people so closed minded? That's worse that bias here imo. Am I the only one capable of switching positions?

 

[Rialdospaldacht]

Espeon has a sp attack of 130 while gardevoir has one of 125.

Espeon also has a total stat of 525 while gardevoir has 518.

Those are stats. I really don't give a crap.