Guide Taj's Character Match-Up Discussion

[Taj278]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081222/en_nm/us_warner_youtube

Yup.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Shadowclaw 1 was also defiled by YouTube.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Wow, that's hella gay. We should switch to like. Veoh.

 

[PK Webb]

Why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that was my study guide to combos with mew2. Im so sad now this just ruined some of my weekend.

 

[PK Webb]

Shadowclaw 1 was also defiled by YouTube.

Thats odd because shadowclaw 1 still works on my computer

 

[Taj278]

Yeah, the one uploaded by Lt. Blu still works, but the one that OptimusLime or whatever was taken down.

 

[Vts]

so watched iori's mewtwo get owned against chad's fox it was ugly... CC fox= dead mewtwo i guess

 

[PK Webb]

so taj if you could answer my previous question please. It gives me a time limit i should have a deent mewtwo. When i get a chance i'll put up a vid of my mewtwo to critique.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I can't find the first part of Shadow Claw 2 =( Stupid YouTube.

 

[PK Webb]

i wonder if taj could re post those vids just with different music......just a thought

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Or on a different website. Or for download! =D

 

[PK Webb]

Yea like dailymotion or something i guess but still I NEED THAT ANSWER XD

 

[Shadow Huan]

Or on a different website. Or for download! =D

The Shadowclaw trilogy for download would be sooooo sweet! That whole thing with youtube doesn't bode well for me or anyone else posting any vids up there. Depending on how the Shadowclaw vids are made available again, the rest of us could do it the same way...

 

[PK Webb]

I say use Over clocked remix songs from videogames that way there is no problems.

 

[otg]

So.. since there hasn't been much on matchups in this thread in awhile... how about... Game and Watch?

 

[PK Webb]

what combos work on normal weighted character such as marth, sheik, mario weight

 

[Taj278]

Taj im pretty sure someone has asked you this question before but i cant find it. How long were you playing mewtwo before you released shadowclaw

I played Mewtwo since I unlocked him in 2001.

 

[Nocturnalist]

lol shadow claw three......do that ^^

 

[Mogwai]

since this is the only thread I know Taj278 checks...

I saw you post on Flash vs. Bisu game 3 and it made me happy. Starcraft = too good.

 

[Taj278]

True Fax =D

I <3 Pro Starcraft.

 

[KirbyKaze]

My kirby sucks. And then you die. And I don't. Cus I never miss my Cancels ;D

You have, what, 6 frames to cancel on Mewtwo?

I could never do the 1 framers consistently.

 

[Pink Reaper]

You have, what, 6 frames to cancel on Mewtwo?

I could never do the 1 framers consistently.

Mewtwo is a 4 framer, although that's still a huge window. 1 framers are kind of hard, but I got alot of practice on a friend who plays G&W randomly.

 

[Monkey Wrench]

We're discussing Mewtwo in the Pichu matchup board, stop by and contribute if you can, thanks.

 

[otg]

So, you know.... m2's matchups?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Technically, we should be on Falco right now.

 

[otg]

Falco sounds good, I want to hear about how to deal w/ G&W to be honest.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Well you could start by... saying what you think gives Mewtwo trouble with Game and Watch.

 

[otg]

Oh, I have no idea, especially since I like barely use M2. But in 'random' friendlies the other day I had to do a set of M2 vs. GnW, and I was just getting out spaced and out prioritized by his disjointed hitboxes.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Man... where did Taj go?

I dunno, I feel like you'd use Mewtwo's tilts for poking and outside of that, just weave in and out of range. Mewtwo does have a pretty big priority issue.

 

[Taj278]

Meh, I don't feel like posting anymore because I feel like no one is discussing anything I've posted. Maybe I'll get back around to it if you REALLY want me to, but for now I'd much prefer if you guys discussed the match-up of the week and I may interject every now and again, while warming up full write-up.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Oh, all right. Well...

If we're going with Falco, he's huge on high pressure play from far away or close up. From far away, he's obviously going to be using those shorthop lasers. Some characters can duck under them - Mewtwo can't. For that, the best thing to do is to throw a few Shadow Balls when possible, but against a good enough Falco, he won't let you. So powershield.

Powershielding can solve a lot against lasers. Even if you can't powershield all of them back, just a few will show Falco that it's not such a good idea, and if time the shields well enough, the failed powershields will just result in your shield getting hit, so Falco probably won't profit too much from his camping. Thus, you should start expecting the approach.

Falco has a pretty crappy throw game, especially against a floaty like Mewtwo. His uthrow has almost no hitstun, so you can break out of it with almost anything, making it rather difficult for him to combo into anything with it. His dthrow can be teched, and Falco's movement speed isn't the greatest, so as long as you aren't super predictable, you should be okay most of the time with that. Bthrow and fthrow are just standard move-you-around throws.

So he's probably going to approach with an aerial like the nair or the dair. As usual, watch to see where on your shield they hit you. If they hit you high, you can grab them before they get the shine out. If they hit you low, you probably can't. So you can either wait for the shine and grab, or buffer a roll away. Interestingly enough, no matter how a Falco is pillaring your shield, you can always shieldgrab them out of it, unless they're multishining. If they're multishining, just hold away, and your will shield DI out of the shine. They can only land two or three shines on your shield before you're too far away to hit with the shine, anyway.

Falco generally has more range and priority than Fox, and since Mewtwo doesn't have that much, I would avoid confrontation. If he tries to come down on you from high up, usmashes and sometimes utilts can break through what he's trying to do, so keep that in mind.

Falco gets gimped very easily. To gimp Falco, first you have to put him under the stage so he can't use his Phantasm to recover. An ftilt or even a dtilt can do the job pretty well to interrupt him. From there, just bair or nair or even reverse Shadow Ball charge his Fire Bird and he'll probably be dead. If the Falco sweetspots really well with the Phantasm, try hitting him with a dsmash.

Obviously, Falco is a fastfaller, so combo him like one using fairs and utilts and uairs and such. Uthrow will work a few times at low percentages, but at medium percentages, you'll want to go with dthrow tech chases (dthrow to Shadow Ball can work fairly well) or bthrow to go for the gimp. As for the magic number... I have no idea what it is.

Sometimes Falco will get really clever and start spacing ftilts on your shield. Don't try to jump out with an aerial, you'll probably just get aerialed because he's a lot faster than you are. Instead, just be patient and respace. Watch your shield, too, because his dtilt is a very strong vertical killer. Not Fox usmash strong, but still pretty strong.

Since you're floaty, Falco won't really be able to combo you that well. For that reason, I would even consider going to a stage like Final Destination. Heresy, I know. Personal choice. Dreamland works as well. I would avoid stages like Yoshi's Story because they have platforms which would probably help Falco's comboing. You could try Battlefield, if only to make Falco's recovery that much more difficult. Watch out for the shine bair, because fast Falcos will be able to rack up damage or kills quickly with that. Just DI away from them and you should be able to avoid the bair.

Hmmm... Taj says he's beaten every Falco he's ever played including DaShizWiz, so it can't be that hard, right? =D

That's about all I can come up with, anyone have any other thoughts?

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

^^good **** elven
come on taj with posts like that you cant stop contributing i havent cuz i know almost nothing about m2 matchups.... the only matchup i know something about is bowser vs m2 cuz i've played a friends m2 with my bowser quite a bit

 

[DarkDragoon]

Oh, all right. Well...

If we're going with Falco, he's huge on high pressure play from far away or close up. From far away, he's obviously going to be using those shorthop lasers. Some characters can duck under them - Mewtwo can't. For that, the best thing to do is to throw a few Shadow Balls when possible, but against a good enough Falco, he won't let you. So powershield.

Against Spammy Falcos I find that Shield/Power shielding and then ShortHop Teleporting to random places on stage to screw with their heads kinda makes them give up on the lasers pretty early. Of course if you're on FD then power shielding would probably be a better idea, huh?

Powershielding can solve a lot against lasers. Even if you can't powershield all of them back, just a few will show Falco that it's not such a good idea, and if time the shields well enough, the failed powershields will just result in your shield getting hit, so Falco probably won't profit too much from his camping. Thus, you should start expecting the approach.

Falco has a pretty crappy throw game, especially against a floaty like Mewtwo. His uthrow has almost no hitstun, so you can break out of it with almost anything, making it rather difficult for him to combo into anything with it. His dthrow can be teched, and Falco's movement speed isn't the greatest, so as long as you aren't super predictable, you should be okay most of the time with that. Bthrow and fthrow are just standard move-you-around throws.

So he's probably going to approach with an aerial like the nair or the dair. As usual, watch to see where on your shield they hit you. If they hit you high, you can grab them before they get the shine out. If they hit you low, you probably can't. So you can either wait for the shine and grab, or buffer a roll away. Interestingly enough, no matter how a Falco is pillaring your shield, you can always shieldgrab them out of it, unless they're multishining. If they're multishining, just hold away, and your will shield DI out of the shine. They can only land two or three shines on your shield before you're too far away to hit with the shine, anyway.

Falco generally has more range and priority than Fox, and since Mewtwo doesn't have that much, I would avoid confrontation. If he tries to come down on you from high up, usmashes and sometimes utilts can break through what he's trying to do, so keep that in mind.

I prefer to use USmash over UTilt, at least initially, since Falco will just CC the hits at lower percentages and hit you with a shfflDair or something.

Falco gets gimped very easily. To gimp Falco, first you have to put him under the stage so he can't use his Phantasm to recover. An ftilt or even a dtilt can do the job pretty well to interrupt him. From there, just bair or nair or even reverse Shadow Ball charge his Fire Bird and he'll probably be dead. If the Falco sweetspots really well with the Phantasm, try hitting him with a dsmash.

If Falco is sweetspotting well with the Phantasm, I would rather use DTilt to interrupt him, just because its faster than the DSmash, and it usually gets him below the stage. Its usually good to NAir him into the stage, with the bottom of the NAir too, because that sends him down towards the stage, right?

Obviously, Falco is a fastfaller, so combo him like one using fairs and utilts and uairs and such. Uthrow will work a few times at low percentages, but at medium percentages, you'll want to go with dthrow tech chases (dthrow to Shadow Ball can work fairly well) or bthrow to go for the gimp. As for the magic number... I have no idea what it is.

DThrow to Shadowball is God. The magic number is in the 150%+ range I think...so I would just stick with BThrows for Gimps.

Sometimes Falco will get really clever and start spacing ftilts on your shield. Don't try to jump out with an aerial, you'll probably just get aerialed because he's a lot faster than you are. Instead, just be patient and respace. Watch your shield, too, because his dtilt is a very strong vertical killer. Not Fox usmash strong, but still pretty strong.

Agreed.

Since you're floaty, Falco won't really be able to combo you that well. For that reason, I would even consider going to a stage like Final Destination. Heresy, I know. Personal choice. Dreamland works as well. I would avoid stages like Yoshi's Story because they have platforms which would probably help Falco's comboing. You could try Battlefield, if only to make Falco's recovery that much more difficult. Watch out for the shine bair, because fast Falcos will be able to rack up damage or kills quickly with that. Just DI away from them and you should be able to avoid the bair.

I like FD against Falcos too. Yoshi's story is killer because they can double Shine you from the top platform for an over-the-top KO. Or maybe that was just my terrible DI. LOL.

Hmmm... Taj says he's beaten every Falco he's ever played including DaShizWiz, so it can't be that hard, right? =D

That's about all I can come up with, anyone have any other thoughts?

All my thoughts were put in bold italics!
:D!
-DD

 

[Shadow Huan]

Good summary elvenarrow3000. I have a few things to add, but nothing of any real importance. Just details.

Obviously, Falco is a fastfaller, so combo him like one using fairs and utilts and uairs and such. Uthrow will work a few times at low percentages, but at medium percentages, you'll want to go with dthrow tech chases (dthrow to Shadow Ball can work fairly well) or bthrow to go for the gimp.

Depending on the skill level of the Falco, you can also D-Throw into multiple D-Tilts at low pecentages. It works best if the Falco has no idea how to play against a Mewtwo, and since Falco drops the fastest out of all the characters, it can be tricky for the Falco to DI out of. (Though not impossible.) If they do DI or if the manage to tech out of it, you can follow this up with a wavesmash, or even a DJC F-Air or D-Air depending on the Falco's tech. Falco's recovery is terrible, so get him up to damage and simply knock him out, then gimp him if you feel like it.

If its a good Falco, go for the throat.

As for the magic number... I have no idea what it is.

The magic number for Falco on FD without a DI is 165% damage. With a DI it's probably somewhere around 175%. (Not really sure: never bothered to find out in an actual match.) Its not really worth it...at that damage a B-Throw will do the job.


That's all I've got. I know a thing or two about the G&W match-up, so I'll post again when that comes up.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

According to Mew2King's site, Falco dies sans DI on Final Destination at 159% before the grab, meaning 171% after the throw.

Good point on the Teleport and dtilt, DarkDragoon. As far as the utilt/usmash go, I meant them as a counter against high aerial approaches, so crouch canceling shouldn't be an issue. And I'm not really sure of the nair, generally the stun should push him out too far to recover, which for Falco isn't very far.

 

[Shadow Huan]

According to Mew2King's site, Falco dies sans DI on Final Destination at 159% before the grab, meaning 171% after the throw.

Yeah, I wasn't totally sure, but like I said, a B-Throw will K.O. when the damage is that high, so why bother with the U-Throw? (Besides to show off on the last stock )

@ DarkDragoon: I saw on you're thread that you went to a tourny in CT? Did you go to the Conneticonn last year? There was another Mewtwo player there, but he and I were like the only ones...

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Bthrow's kinda easy to DI... I'm not sure what percentage they'd have to be at to die from that.

You could test it and post numbers =D

 

[Shadow Huan]

Bthrow's kinda easy to DI... I'm not sure what percentage they'd have to be at to die from that.

You could test it and post numbers =D

That's a good idea. I will. I'm fairly certain that at 159% or higher that it would do it though. Even with a DI, Falco's terrible recovery would be its "downfall" lol.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Yeah, I wasn't totally sure, but like I said, a B-Throw will K.O. when the damage is that high, so why bother with the U-Throw? (Besides to show off on the last stock )

@ DarkDragoon: I saw on you're thread that you went to a tourny in CT? Did you go to the Conneticonn last year? There was another Mewtwo player there, but he and I were like the only ones...

LOL Yea. That was me. I made it out of "Pools" with Boxman, and then I got ***** 8 Ways to Sunday by Rep's Gannondorf. Nus was cheering me on though.

Bthrow's kinda easy to DI... I'm not sure what percentage they'd have to be at to die from that.

You could test it and post numbers =D

The point isn't to kill him, the point is to get him to a distance greater than his recovery or in line with a Shadow Ball or whatnot.

That's a good idea. I will. I'm fairly certain that at 159% or higher that it would do it though. Even with a DI, Falco's terrible recovery would be its "downfall" lol.

>_> This.
-DD

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Yeah, but if you DI it upwards, you have a lot of drift time.