i have a tourney saturday and i need help with jiggs. I dont really know how to fight them. i also have problems with ganon but you went over that already thanks. i comfortable fight every other character. If you dont have time for a character discussion thats cool but any advice would be helpful. And anything on luigi would be helpful as well
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Guide Taj's Character Match-Up Discussion
- Thread starter Taj278
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elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
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I don't really know much about Jigglypuff, but I can tell you a few basic things about Luigi.
He moves fast on the ground, but not in the air, so if you can cut off his ground approach with Shadow Balls, the pressure should ease up quite a bit. Just watch for the waveshield grab. Spikes eat him up on the recovery, because unless he's saved his second jump, he can't get any horizontal distance. And even if he's saved it, he's still in trouble.
Don't try to shieldgrab his aerials, as they definitely won't work, and watch for the short hop double aerial.
He moves fast on the ground, but not in the air, so if you can cut off his ground approach with Shadow Balls, the pressure should ease up quite a bit. Just watch for the waveshield grab. Spikes eat him up on the recovery, because unless he's saved his second jump, he can't get any horizontal distance. And even if he's saved it, he's still in trouble.
Don't try to shieldgrab his aerials, as they definitely won't work, and watch for the short hop double aerial.
V3ctorMan
Smash Champion
Hello Mewtwo Forum. I'm unsure of whether the matchup requested is either Jigglypuff or Pikachu against Mewtwo.. If it is Pikachu this week. Taj has given me the right to lead the weeks discussion IF it is Pikachu.. If it's Jiggs however, that is up for discussion if Taj wants to let me lead that discussion as well.
For those of you who don't know. I'm from AZ like Taj and also have a very solid Mewtwo, Taj has entrusted me with this section as well so I don't want anyone to think I'm just a Mewtwo that has no idea of what' he's doing. I mean Taj entrust in me and everything I know is from him practically..^^ (lol I should buy him a Pizza) since he likes food so much!..and since he's black like myself!... xD
Anyway
Here are a few videos of myself against Axe (Pikachu) - (ONE OF THE TOP 3 PIKACHUS IN THE WORLD BTW) and hopefully this will ensure your trust in me.. So yeah Thanks again Taj for letting me lead the week in Pika.. if it Is Jiggs this week, I'll ask If he wants me to run that as well so here are the vids
NEW
Axe (Pikachu) vs VectorMan (Mewtwo) - Tournament Finale - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kvCgP-ys6k
Axe (Pikachu) vs VectorMan (Mewtwo) - Game 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzkpnSFKgBk
Axe (Pikachu) vs VectorMan (Mewtwo) - Game 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwKDVauCmHk
Axe (Pikachu) vs VectorMan (Mewtwo) - Game 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8t40oXpnrE
THEY ARE ALSO IN THE THREAD TITLED - LOST AND FOUND MEWTWO!
So please let me know this week if either the discussion is about Pikachu, or Jigglypuff upon your request and I will discuss with Taj about what we'll do
Thanks again Mewtwo Forum! =D
For those of you who don't know. I'm from AZ like Taj and also have a very solid Mewtwo, Taj has entrusted me with this section as well so I don't want anyone to think I'm just a Mewtwo that has no idea of what' he's doing. I mean Taj entrust in me and everything I know is from him practically..^^ (lol I should buy him a Pizza) since he likes food so much!..and since he's black like myself!... xD
Anyway
Here are a few videos of myself against Axe (Pikachu) - (ONE OF THE TOP 3 PIKACHUS IN THE WORLD BTW) and hopefully this will ensure your trust in me.. So yeah Thanks again Taj for letting me lead the week in Pika.. if it Is Jiggs this week, I'll ask If he wants me to run that as well so here are the vids
NEW
Axe (Pikachu) vs VectorMan (Mewtwo) - Tournament Finale - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kvCgP-ys6k
Axe (Pikachu) vs VectorMan (Mewtwo) - Game 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzkpnSFKgBk
Axe (Pikachu) vs VectorMan (Mewtwo) - Game 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwKDVauCmHk
Axe (Pikachu) vs VectorMan (Mewtwo) - Game 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8t40oXpnrE
THEY ARE ALSO IN THE THREAD TITLED - LOST AND FOUND MEWTWO!
So please let me know this week if either the discussion is about Pikachu, or Jigglypuff upon your request and I will discuss with Taj about what we'll do
Thanks again Mewtwo Forum! =D
your mew2 is very good. I can see why taj entrusted you with this topic. did he teach you how to play mew2 or did you just train really hard. Anyways just to clear things up i just want advice it doesn't have to be made into anything official. i'll take advice from any knowledgeable person
Shadow Huan
Smash Champion
Jiggs is one of the harder match-ups for Mewtwo, seeing as how Jigglypuff is the only character with more aerial manuverability (Misspelled I know.) than Mewtwo, and all of the said airs have more priority than Mewtwo's, with the exceptions of the Shadowclaw and the U-air sweetspotted. I do know a little bit about this match-up though. Chances are that most will try to go for a Rest combo because Mewtwo is big: a drill to Rest, or U-throw to Rest (These are the most common that I've seen, but there are others...). The better (And smarter) ones will just go for the throat, knock you out over the edge, and eat up your recovery as only Jiggs can.
The thing that you've got going is that Jiggs is one of the easiest characters in the game to read. The reason it's so high on the tier list is because of the Rest combos it can pull off on the other most-played characters in the game: Fox and Falco are Rest bait because of the Fast Falling. Mewtwo is floaty, so it screws up the timing that the Jiggs player is used to.
For advice: play smart, patient, and evasive. Teleport out of sticky situations like the U-throw to Rest, and try to never stop moving. Try to keep the Jiggs player off balance, because the chances are that THEY don't know how to handle Mewtwo. Keep control of the match and don't get sloppy, and you'll do fine. Watch some Jiggs vids if you're not used to the fluffball. Vectorman will be able to add more I'm sure... Did this help at all? I can be more specific if you don't wanna wait for Vectorman...
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
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Uthrow to Rest? On Mewtwo?
I dunno, generally speaking, the non-fast faller Rest combos will be like... King's reverse nair to Rest, utilt to Rest... maybe drill to Rest.
Against Jigglypuff's WoP combos, I would defiinitely advise that you save your jump, as you can recover from pretty much anywhere with that. After you DI out of the combo, you can drop under Jigglypuff, double jump between her and the stage, then bair, and you're in control. Watch out for the Pound though.
I dunno, generally speaking, the non-fast faller Rest combos will be like... King's reverse nair to Rest, utilt to Rest... maybe drill to Rest.
Against Jigglypuff's WoP combos, I would defiinitely advise that you save your jump, as you can recover from pretty much anywhere with that. After you DI out of the combo, you can drop under Jigglypuff, double jump between her and the stage, then bair, and you're in control. Watch out for the Pound though.
Shadow Huan
Smash Champion
Yeah, someone tried on my Mewtwo once, and paid for it dearly lol.
Yes shadowball2 you were very helpful i'll take those words into consideration. if you have more advice i'll take it because i heard a really good jiggs is going to be at the tourney and the crew avalanchE ia gonna be there if you ever heard of them. I think they are undefeated or thats at least what wiki says
Im really lazy with my match up thread in the Kirby boards, Taj, will you do Kirby Vs M2 for me?
I've played against King's Jiggs with M2 about 3 times and won all three. I've only played Mango's Jiggs once and lost. Mewtwo is just too light and floaty for any rest combos other than n-air to rest and POSSIBLY a very low % up tilt to rest. It just didn't happen to me when I played.
From what I've observed, really you actually do stop moving. You don't really have anything in particular, so I really just made small compact movements and played out of my shield a lot. Mewtwo's aerials aren't fast enough and don't have enough range and priority over Jiggly Puff's. Neutral air out of shield is a winner, calling retreating back airs with wavedash grabs/tilts, sometime's he'll be open for a good forward air.
If you get under Jiggs that's when you'll have an advantage. Up air and neutral air are most effective, but up tilt can also be used sometimes.
The biggest killer is the 95% up throw KO on FD. All you're looking to do is rack up damage and just patiently wait for that grab opening.
Defensively, if you're taking a lot of damage or your shield is going down, just teleport away and reset. Jiggs just isn't fast enough to keep up with you, so as long as you have good spacing, Jiggs can't really kill you easily. You'll die at higher percentages from just back airs.
Watch for crouched forward smashes from Jiggs as that is their surprise killer, and often times they will try to crouch your grabs, but just space your tilts if they try to play a crouch cancel game, or even just neutral air on top of them since it can't be crouch canceled to punish you.
From what I've observed, really you actually do stop moving. You don't really have anything in particular, so I really just made small compact movements and played out of my shield a lot. Mewtwo's aerials aren't fast enough and don't have enough range and priority over Jiggly Puff's. Neutral air out of shield is a winner, calling retreating back airs with wavedash grabs/tilts, sometime's he'll be open for a good forward air.
If you get under Jiggs that's when you'll have an advantage. Up air and neutral air are most effective, but up tilt can also be used sometimes.
The biggest killer is the 95% up throw KO on FD. All you're looking to do is rack up damage and just patiently wait for that grab opening.
Defensively, if you're taking a lot of damage or your shield is going down, just teleport away and reset. Jiggs just isn't fast enough to keep up with you, so as long as you have good spacing, Jiggs can't really kill you easily. You'll die at higher percentages from just back airs.
Watch for crouched forward smashes from Jiggs as that is their surprise killer, and often times they will try to crouch your grabs, but just space your tilts if they try to play a crouch cancel game, or even just neutral air on top of them since it can't be crouch canceled to punish you.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
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Can they crouch under dash grabs too, or just the standing grab?
V3ctorMan
Smash Champion
T Webb - Taj did not personally train me or anything just critiqued me when i first started him years ago, and gave me useful tips/advice etc. It helped alot! In terms of the actual Mewtwo I play move selection and the style I play is from Hours upon hours of training and broken controllers! lol xD
ElvenArrow - Both grabs can be dodged.
On the crouch grab. also be careful on how you're approaching the Jigglypuff. If the Jiggs is under low damage beware the crouch cancel-rest! If under too much shield pressure just make sure to teleport and restart you're approach.
NOTE: Also beware of the Pound on Jigglypuff, the move in general is easy to dodge with Mewtwo but will have priority over a spamming Mewtwo using Shadowball. However this should not be too much of a hassle since Taj has stated above but Mewtwo is difficult to catch with Jiggs. Just make sure to teleport effectively.
In terms of approach alone, Mewtwo would have the advantage, simply enough he has a projectile, but that doesn't necesarilly mean that the you're at an immediate one. It's just easier to retreat and reset your initial setup. Tony stated above that The only good aerial for Mewtwo on jiggs will be the Neutral. Most of Jiggs Aerials have more priority than anything Mewtwo can throw at him. A safe approach would be to use you're tilts. Mewtwo has reach/priority on Jiggs tilts and U-tilt may have priority over ANY of Jigg's aerials, just NOT the Pound!
Disable Jiggs will just crouch under and either rest you or a free smash. Confusion can be used for a different kind of approach and an easy 10% damage. This is from personal experience Taj might have a different perspective since our Mewtwo's are different.
On platform maps try to stay underneath Jigglypuff which can give you an easy N-air approach. Use that to build up damage and try to finish with an U-throw or F-air. I'd recommend N-air out of shield over F-air out of shield simply for followups but that's personal experience Taj may have a different perspective of it.
All in all try to avoid being caught in Jiggs aerials. Jiggs can build damage on Mewtwo fairly well and might even try to play more defensively which will mess with your approach, if you become impatient.
Use Tilts, and grabs for effective kill moves
ElvenArrow - Both grabs can be dodged.
On the crouch grab. also be careful on how you're approaching the Jigglypuff. If the Jiggs is under low damage beware the crouch cancel-rest! If under too much shield pressure just make sure to teleport and restart you're approach.
NOTE: Also beware of the Pound on Jigglypuff, the move in general is easy to dodge with Mewtwo but will have priority over a spamming Mewtwo using Shadowball. However this should not be too much of a hassle since Taj has stated above but Mewtwo is difficult to catch with Jiggs. Just make sure to teleport effectively.
In terms of approach alone, Mewtwo would have the advantage, simply enough he has a projectile, but that doesn't necesarilly mean that the you're at an immediate one. It's just easier to retreat and reset your initial setup. Tony stated above that The only good aerial for Mewtwo on jiggs will be the Neutral. Most of Jiggs Aerials have more priority than anything Mewtwo can throw at him. A safe approach would be to use you're tilts. Mewtwo has reach/priority on Jiggs tilts and U-tilt may have priority over ANY of Jigg's aerials, just NOT the Pound!
Disable Jiggs will just crouch under and either rest you or a free smash. Confusion can be used for a different kind of approach and an easy 10% damage. This is from personal experience Taj might have a different perspective since our Mewtwo's are different.
On platform maps try to stay underneath Jigglypuff which can give you an easy N-air approach. Use that to build up damage and try to finish with an U-throw or F-air. I'd recommend N-air out of shield over F-air out of shield simply for followups but that's personal experience Taj may have a different perspective of it.
All in all try to avoid being caught in Jiggs aerials. Jiggs can build damage on Mewtwo fairly well and might even try to play more defensively which will mess with your approach, if you become impatient.
Use Tilts, and grabs for effective kill moves
Jiggs can crouch both, but Mewtwo can still grab a crouching Jiggs with the correctly spaced grab. Unfortunately I don't remember the exact spacing or even if it was just Jiggs coincidentally moving her head during the crouch that allowed me to grab successfully. 
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
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So Taj... when is Shadow Claw 3 coming out?
Hopefully around February.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
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Do we get a trailer? =)
Eventually. :D
I have to wait until my editor gets back in town.
I have to wait until my editor gets back in town.
Winston
Smash Master
Not that I'm not excited, but...
you're releasing a combo video while you're retired? x___x
you're releasing a combo video while you're retired? x___x
So does this mean im gonna have to do Kirby vs Mewtwo myself?
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
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Well if we really are just going down the tier list... Kirby could be a while.
I never officially retired, I was just more "retired" than everyone that said they retired.
I take back my February ETA, it might be longer than that. However, this one will be shorter, in the ball park of 5-7 minutes. I just want to complete the trilogy. :D
Shadow Huan
Smash Champion
A Shadowclaw 3? Cool! Will there be any Taj vs. King footage in it this time? Looking forwards to it!
V3ctorMan
Smash Champion
Taj isn't THAT good.. .lol's he's a nubcake!.. xD J?K Taj! You still owe me Pizza and a Basketball match!.....Mewtwo *****!
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
Kirby vs M2 would be interesting.
I'm guessing M2 has an advantage atleast, based on the fact that M2 can kill Kirby and Kirby can't really kill M2.
I'm guessing M2 has an advantage atleast, based on the fact that M2 can kill Kirby and Kirby can't really kill M2.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
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Seems like it'd be a poke fest. Mewtwo has range over Kirby, I guess... and the bair gimp probably hurts Kirby's recovery a lot. Although Kirby can duck under a lot of Mewtwo's stuff, much like Jigglypuff. Seems like Mewtwo would be pretty safe from kill moves too, unless Kirby gets a random utilt to uair/bair or something like that.
Question: How do you deal with a fox that continuously takes to the air. Whenever i tried challenging his attack i lost and if i tried the shield grab he would either shine or wavedash away or the knockback of his attack usually neutral air made it so he would be out of range of my grab. So any advice for dealing with this particular situation. Oh and teleporting away on fox didn't work to well usually ending with a up smash
You don't try to challenge Fox in air superiority, you challenge his limited aerial mobility and priority from being underneath and you challenge the Fox's ability to space and L-cancel aerials. You want the Fox to play you like he would play his Marth/Sheik friends and not like he should play Mewtwo.
If you get upsmashed from teleporting away from Fox, you're just doing it wrong. You have to Teleport CANCEL, meaning you teleport while slightly in the air and only receive normal landing lag instead of the full teleport lag. Also, you don't teleport away to any place where you can easily be read or punished.Make slight movements, small wavedashes outside of his neutral air range, space your tilts, and do what you HAVE to do against just about every other character.
If you're getting read and punished for being evasive, then you're most likely being out played. Mewtwo can stall almost indefinitely against every character. Fox is one of the hardest to stall against, but if you force Fox to attack you, you get more openings. If the Fox forces you to attack, you have a higher risk of getting grabbed > up throw > up air.
If you know he's going to shine you after your aerials, then don't go for the grab after the aerials and move away. You have to be able to tell when the Fox misses L-cancels to shield grab those.
Fox's Neutral air, if you distort his spacing and move into him, or force him to overextend should just about always give you grab opportunities since it shouldn't be as safe as a frame perfect drill shine. Move into him with your shield or move away from him with proper spacing.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
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Speaking of shieldgrabs, it helps if you look for shieldgrabs where people think it's safe. If a Fox (or anyone else, for that matter) connects high on your shield with a nair (or any single-hit aerial) you can generally shieldgrab them right after the shieldstun ends, since they have the lag time of having to get to the ground as well as the lag upon hitting the ground before they can do anything. If they hit low on your shield and shine, you can see what they do after the shine. Sometimes people do dumb things like waveshine in place, which gives you the opportunity to grab.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
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I wish =( I've never had to opportunity to record any matches...
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
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If I had a way to record, I would've =P
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
I thought you had a lot to type so I shortened it for you for every matchup.
D Tilt Shields, If in doubt Teleport out, B Air edgeguard, Shadowball spam if they can't do anything about it. Know your opponent's magic number.
*Dusts hands* Done and done.
D Tilt Shields, If in doubt Teleport out, B Air edgeguard, Shadowball spam if they can't do anything about it. Know your opponent's magic number.
*Dusts hands* Done and done.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
On the contrary it's a very slow, boring, horrible matchup.
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
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That's all of Kirby's match ups though.
Well. Maybe not. I'm just bitter because my Kirby blows.
Well. Maybe not. I'm just bitter because my Kirby blows.
My kirby sucks. And then you die. And I don't. Cus I never miss my Cancels ;D
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
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Oh I get it.
No one ever falls for my Kirbycides anymore =( And without those, I have no way of killing people.
No one ever falls for my Kirbycides anymore =( And without those, I have no way of killing people.
Shadow Huan
Smash Champion
Hey guys. What the heck is happening on youtube?! First Quak's combo vid gets taken off, and now the first part of Shadowclaw 2 is gone! Something about a copyright issue with a 3rd party. I don't get it: all of the songs used were credited. What's going on?!