Super Smash Bros. Infinite Project (Finally Finished!???)

[Janx_uwu]

Gonna be honest, my vote is gonna have to come down to whether or not we should add another vehicle-piloting character. Jill and Mach Rider I absolutely want in this game, despite never playing the games of either-but should we add them after Eggman and DJ Octavio? It's something I'm going to have to think about.

Masked Man, while not my ideal Earthbound/Mother rep, would make for a really cool fighter. I don't care how tragic his backstory is or how spoiler-y it would be to those who haven't yet played Mother 3. He has a cool yellow sword and an arm canon, that's awesome!

Gotta admit, I never gave much thought to Ray before now-but arena fighter, you mentioned? Sign me up! Also the weapons would be cool. That is all.

Another character I didn't care about much until the write-ups was Balloon Fighter-a physics based character would be really cool!

I don't mind having another original Mario newcomer, but even though I like Geno more as a character, I think Paper Mario would be way more fun to make a moveset and animations for given his nature as a flat piece of paper.

I will only vote for Toad if we can all agree to make Blue Toad his rightfully default costume. Otherwise it's a no for me, chief.

I know that I submitted Meowth, but to be honest I don't really want another Pokemon-Grovyle and Celebi fill that series' obligatory newcomer slot, and Meowth, while awesome, isn't a character I particularly need to be in Infinite. Earlier in the game I would've felt different however, same with Lugia.

Krystal isn't really necessary I feel. She has a cool moveset in SSF2 but that's the extent I know of her and she just doesn't seem like someone that's needed compared to all of these new series who could potentially get a fighter when we have three non-echo Star Fox characters.

Also-uh, what? Saki is a guy??!! Used to have a crush on the gun girl assist trophy from Brawl as a kid. Man that's weird to think about.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

We have been quite trigger-happy on the more tech-y newcomers here, between Astral Chain and two mech fighters.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I'm kinda worried about Excitebiker and Mach Rider cannibalising each other - both are rather similar characters with only aesthetics and a preferance between a gun or oil slicks to divide them.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I'm kinda worried about Excitebiker and Mach Rider cannibalising each other - both are rather similar characters with only aesthetics and a preferance between a gun or oil slicks to divide them.

Hence my proposal to combine their votes before deciding on either one of the two, similar to Andy & Sami

 

[cashregister9]

I want to give airConditioner a shout out for their fantastic Write up about Saki.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Goodness this is really tough. I do want to keep the “request since Brawl” prompt in mind and admit that there are definitely options that fit the prompt better than others.

I am a little bit biased, but Toad is a no-brainer. Back when the core Mario series was just Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser, the debate for who should be the fifth newcomer was a pretty prominent one. There were a lot of highly discussed candidates, but Toad was often acknowledged as the most obvious one. Yet, here we are with Rosalina, Bowser Jr., Daisy, Piranha Plant, Waluigi and still no sign of Toad. It’s crazy as Toad has actually only picked up steam since Brawl from all his playable appearances in mainline Mario games, to his very own spin-off with Treasure Tracker. It’s kind of wild he isn’t already playable.

Paper Mario and of course Geno fit this prompt, too. Either one would make a lot of sense, I’m just personally more on board with Toad for multiple reasons from personal bias, to just believing that he better fits the prompt.

Meowth is a strong candidate who is similar to Toad in a lot of ways. He’s been around for a long time, is incredibly recognizable, and is the second most recurring Pokémon in the anime. He’s never been that popular of a Smash request, but he still fits the “it’s about time” theme of this prompt.

Any retro character would be cool. Excitebiker and Balloon Fighter are my favorites and the fact that they are among the fighters considered for Melee does make them fit the prompt. Any obscure series like Custom Robo or Sin & Punishment would be good enough picks too, as despite how innactive the series have been, they continue to have their fans much like Golden Sun.

Advance Wars might be the big stand out as far as miscellaneous series go. It was pretty popular back in the day and the remakes give plenty of justification for a character in Smash.

If you want someone who was a very popular request back in Brawl, then look no further than Krystal. Back when StarFox was pumping out new games consistently from Adventures, to Assault, to Command, it really felt like Krystal was a shoo-in. She was really popular, had a ton of importance in the newer StarFox games and had plenty of moveset potential. Wolf being chosen over her was a genuine shock for a lot of people. That didn’t change the fact that she was still a pretty big request for Smash 4, but sadly fizzled out for Smash Ultimate. The StarFox series just hasn’t been on its A-game lately, so it’s kind of hard to justify a fourth character. But hey, if you want to satisfy a long-time fan request, then she is one of your best options.

Masked Man is somewhat similar to Krystal, only he dropped in popularity way harder after Brawl. He’s still really cool and fits the prompt well enough in my opinion. Though, like Krystal, I have to ask…do we need a third Mother character? The franchise is awesome, but should that be our priority at this point?

Aside from that, most people will likely just vote for what they like, which is fine. I might honestly do the same. Still, I think it’s fun to really think critically about who fits the prompt. Characters like Geno, Masked Man and Krystal were huge requests back in the day. Toad and Meowth have always felt like they had all the merits to be included, but just never pulled it off. Then you have all of the more obscure characters like Ayumi, Andy, Saki, Mach Rider, Ray, etc. They may not be the biggest requests, but it’s hard to argue with a new series being represented in Smash, as most of us probably agree that that’s always a good thing.

I'm kinda worried about Excitebiker and Mach Rider cannibalising each other - both are rather similar characters with only aesthetics and a preferance between a gun or oil slicks to divide them.

I worry about this every damn time. There isn’t really a good solution though. Maybe we could combine them? But they aren’t even from the same series so I’m not sure if that works.

 

[BowserKing]

There are multiple characters that have a chance. And while I’m rooting for Lugia, I also want Krystal and Geno in the game as well. Not only is Krystal my most wanted Star Fox Rep, but she was planned for Brawl. We also need a Staff user, which Krystal fits.
As for Geno, while I prefer Fawful, Geno would still make a great choice and to help represent Mario RPGs.

Meowth and Toad are honourable mentions because they are quite iconic to not be ignored.

 

[Speed Weed]

Aight, so I think that overall, the choice that would do the best job at being another Big Brawl Request is Geno. However, I also understand that he's a pretty divisive character, so I think that another character who would also showcase this era of spec pretty well while also being a character that I think more people here would generally be down with would be Krystal.

In terms of personal preference though, I am very much with the "niche late 90s/early 2000s new franchise rep" crowd. Saki, Ray, Advance Wars, any of that would be some good ****

 

[WeirdChillFever]

For all your ease, I’ve divided submissions in four categories: Retro, Request, Relevance and Revival

Retro
As the name says, these are the retro characters submitted.

-Excitebiker
-Ayumi
-Mach Rider
-Balloon Fighter

Requests
The characters that were arguably the kings of Brawl speculation, but fell off in their series or in requests. Arguably fit the prompt the best.

-Geno
-Krystal
-Masked Man

Relevance
Characters that retained relevance in their series in one shape or form.
Arguably will age the best as inclusions thanks to their state-of-affairs being far from Brawl-era exclusive.

-Toad
-Meowth
-Paper Mario

Revival
Not specifically retro characters, but characters that have their own series that could be revived.

-Saki
-Andy/Sami
-Chibi Robo
-Ray MkIII
-Jill

Lugia didn’t specifically fit a category.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

ExciteBiker: S+ tier to Join
Ayumi: A tier to Join
Balloon Fighter: A+ Tier to join
Mach Rider: S tier fro Join

Geno: S+ tier to join
Krystal: A+ Tier to join
Masked Man: A tier to Join

Toad: B tier to join
Meowth: B tier to join
Paper Mario: S tier to Join

Saki: A+ Tier
Andy/Sami: S- Tier to join
Chibi Robo: S tier
Ray MK III: A+ tier
Jill: A+ Tier

Lugia: C tier

(Tiers are meaning that how characters would go well to smash)

 

[Golden Icarus]

For all your ease, I’ve divided submissions in four categories: Retro, Request, Relevance and Revival

Retro
As the name says, these are the retro characters submitted.

-Excitebiker
-Ayumi
-Mach Rider
-Balloon Fighter

Requests
The characters that were arguably the kings of Brawl speculation, but fell off in their series or in requests. Arguably fit the prompt the best.

-Geno
-Krystal
-Masked Man

Relevance
Characters that retained relevance in their series in one shape or form.

-Toad
-Meowth
-Paper Mario

Revival
Not specifically retro characters, but characters that have their own series that could be revived.

-Saki
-Andy/Sami
-Chibi Robo
-Ray MkIII
-Jill

Lugia didn’t specifically fit a category.

This is a solid breakdown of everything. The 'requests' category probably fits the prompt best, shortly followed by the 'relevance' category. But full disclosure: I put all three of my votes on the 'revival' category. I just couldn't resist.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

This is a solid breakdown of everything. The 'requests' category probably fits the prompt best, shortly followed by the 'relevance' category. But full disclosure: I put all three of my votes on the 'revival' category. I just couldn't resist.

Wanted to add “Arguably the best choice overall” to the revival category so I don’t blame ya

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I want YOU to vote for Paper Mario!

But tbh, Toad is underrated for moveset potential. I know Peach is already a SMB2 love letter character but Toad could be- uh... even more! I had a moveset idea where he's a quick ground based fighter like Little Mac with terrible air game but he could have a Phanto Key he can throw that summons a Phanto where it's thrown at. Up B could straight up be the charged jump from SMB2 and tbh, Toadette could be an alt costume.

 

[Jondolio]

Personally my main problem with Toad is that his moveset potential feels incredibly unfocused, and most of it isn't unique to him.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Personally my main problem with Toad is that his moveset potential feels incredibly unfocused, and most of it isn't unique to him.

Toad’s moveset is as unfocussed as you want it to be. I agree that the consensus-driven Toad moveset is throwing a bunch of power-ups together with no rhyme or reason but my moveset solves your problems by focussing on the Mario Kart Mushroom.

Basing the Toad moveset on such an item, which can grant him a speed boost, can make him a terrifically fun to play speedster with terrible issues with momentum. While he can potentially be very fast, the Mushroom speed boost would be a commitment. High fall speed make it hard to use when close to an edge aerially, but a powerful grab game means he can rush in and go for the grab, a ground-only option that directly harkens back to his heydays as Super Mario Bros. 2 fastest plucker. His platformer skills, combined with his high burst options, can give him a fluid playstyle that culminates into a grappling playstyle only accidentally seen before with fellow Mario-character Luigi.

Neutral B: Poison Mushroom
Projectile, doesn’t shrink, but damages and slides over the ground like you would expect from any mushroom.

Side B: Golden Mushroom
A series of three quick speedboost, but incredibly hard to control and a hard commitment: Initiate the first speedboost and the other two will automatically follow.

Up B: Mushroom Trick
A small Mushroom Trampoline appears, as Toad jumps onto it headfirst and bounces back up in a manner not unlike a Trick from the Mario Kart series.

Down B: Power Squat Somersault
A high, chargeable jump. Can’t be charged a lot in the air, leading to a low recovery, but on the ground it can give Toad a high, if not commitful and one-sided jump. Based on the Power Squat Jump in Super Mario Bros. 2 and the Backwards Somersault from the 3D Marios.

In a less extreme version of Captain Toad, Toads mobility is limited to what items uses, but when he uses his items correctly he can zoom over the stage with his trademark fervor. For more flair to his other attacks, other Toads can help out to form a swarm for Smashes.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

In SMB2, he's kind of a wild card. Best strength and speed out of the whole but no jump. Mario, Luigi and Peach seem to take after their SMB2 incarnations. Mario is the jack of all trades, Luigi is slower but has the higher jump, Peach got the floaty so Toad would need things to help him out on the ground.

Because of his stats, he is the best at making hoops around Phanto hence why he could have a down B like Peach but with the key.

The charged jump is important for Toad as he has low jump in the first place so that would make sense as an up B.

His signature item in Mario Kart: Double Dash was the golden mushroom. That fits perfectly for his character and moveset giving him a quick burst of horizontal momentum, it could basically be a weaker wonderwing that doesn't have limited uses but maybe a limit on how many uses you can use that needs to be recharged throughout the battle.

As for his normals, I see a lot of headbutting in Toad's future. That cap's not made out of cotton candy.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Toad, to me, strikes me as completionism for the sake of completionism.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Toad, to me, strikes me as completionism for the sake of completionism.

Possibly, but completionism in my opinion is a part of this job/prompt for revolving around a long-standing wish.

 

[Glubbfubb]

Paper mario is more distinct as he debuted in an rpg, and for all the issues his multible gameplay shifts bring it stills gives some unqiue moveset potential, he could use Though to tether grab and use paint to boost the damage of his attacks for example.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Toad is my main in most Mario games from Mario 2, to Mario Maker, to Mario Tennis, to Mario Kart, to 3D World. The fact that he's playable in so many games means that he's naturally a lot of people's favorite. Simply being a Mario character automatically makes Toad a more popular and recognizable character than most. Except he isn't just any Mario character, he's in damn near every game. If he isn't a playable character, then he's probably the host, or the shop owner, or some other essential NPC. I guess this is why people feel that he lacks an identity, as he kind of just fills whatever spot is necessary, but I honestly see that as a very good thing.

If we were to vote Toad into Infinite, it would probably make for one of these most interesting rounds of moveset submissions, as there are just so many directions to go with his moveset. You could take influence from Captain Toad and make him a slow heavyweight with an emphasis on stage control. You could pull from Mario 2 and 3D World and make him more of a glass cannon. You could focus on his appearance and give him a playstyle that specifically uses mushrooms as a gimmick. You could pull from Mario Party and Mario Kart and have him be a more chaotic wild card. You could even just straight up make him a semi-clone of Mario, with a handful of key differences. The dude isn't bland, he's flexible. Just look at how much these movesets differ.

Spoiler

A gimmicky Captain Toad inspired moveset with an emphasis on stage control.

A more well-rounded moveset that takes influence from a variety of appearances.

Anyway, I genuinely feel that Toad has a ton of potential and would be a blast to design for Infinite. Even though I didn't actually vote for him. Seriously there were way too many good options here.

 

[Yiptap]

Toad is my main in most Mario games from Mario 2, to Mario Maker, to Mario Tennis, to Mario Kart, to 3D World. The fact that he's playable in so many games means that he's naturally a lot of people's favorite. Simply being a Mario character automatically makes Toad a more popular and recognizable character than most. Except he isn't just any Mario character, he's in damn near every game. If he isn't a playable character, then he's probably the host, or the shop owner, or some other essential NPC. I guess this is why people feel that he lacks an identity, as he kind of just fills whatever spot is necessary, but I honestly see that as a very good thing.

If we were to vote Toad into Infinite, it would probably make for one of these most interesting rounds of moveset submissions, as there are just so many directions to go with his moveset. You could take influence from Captain Toad and make him a slow heavyweight with an emphasis on stage control. You could pull from Mario 2 and 3D World and make him more of a glass cannon. You could focus on his appearance and give him a playstyle that specifically uses mushrooms as a gimmick. You could pull from Mario Party and Mario Kart and have him be a more chaotic wild card. You could even just straight up make him a semi-clone of Mario, with a handful of key differences. The dude isn't bland, he's flexible. Just look at how much these movesets differ.

Spoiler

A gimmicky Captain Toad inspired moveset with an emphasis on stage control.

A more well-rounded moveset that takes influence from a variety of appearances.

Anyway, I genuinely feel that Toad has a ton of potential and would be a blast to design for Infinite. Even though I didn't actually vote for him. Seriously there were way too many good options here.

Thought I should mention this as well, If you don't see the moveset potential, then just look at the Mario Party games. Toad always plays a big role in the games, whether he's a main character or the host, he's always there. (Btw, this is a really good writeup, so much better than mine (hell, you can't even call mine a writeup))

 

[WeirdChillFever]

With Waluigi added, Toad has all the room and potential needed to work around the spin-offs that Waluigi doesn’t cover yet. This doesn’t mean that Toad’s playstyle should be defined by the exact sport he plays, but exact visual elements can be picked and chosen at leisure to make sure Toad and Waluigi don’t double up on a kart move, for example.

 

[SharkLord]

I'm kinda worried about Excitebiker and Mach Rider cannibalising each other - both are rather similar characters with only aesthetics and a preferance between a gun or oil slicks to divide them.

I'm kinda worrying the same about the two AW characters. We have both Andy and Sami submitted, and while the voting style lessens it a little, I'm still nervous that they'd cannibalize each other's votes. I feel like the AW fans would want to rally around one and leave the other behind if they want to get a rep in for the base game.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'm kinda worrying the same about the two AW characters. We have both Andy and Sami submitted, and while the voting style lessens it a little, I'm still nervous that they'd cannibalize each other's votes. I feel like the AW fans would want to rally around one and leave the other behind if they want to get a rep in for the base game.

They've already combined Andy and Sami for the voting.

 

[SharkLord]

They've already combined Andy and Sami for the voting.

Ah, that makes sense.

Anyways, the moral of this story is to check closely and not just skim over the forum if you're gonna post something

 

[ivanlerma]

Everyone is starting to push for Toad here, I'm probably going to say Geno since he is someone everybody really wanted for so long.

 

[PeridotGX]

Props to the Masked Man for wearing a mask. He's trying to reduce the spread of COVID-19 more than anyone else on the votelist.

and before some wise guy says " the Masked Man's mask doesn't cover his mouth and face", he has no free will so he couldn't do it if he wanted to. It's on Porky, not him. What's Toad's excuse?

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Props to the Masked Man for wearing a mask. He's trying to reduce the spread of COVID-19 more than anyone else on the votelist.

and before some wise guy says " the Masked Man's mask doesn't cover his mouth and face", he has no free will so he couldn't do it if he wanted to. It's on Porky, not him. What's Toad's excuse?

Toad IS the virus.

 

[Krookodilian]

Notice:
We received votes from someone without a smashboards account, and as this could easily be a false dupe ballot, we cannot in good faith count those votes. It didn't change the winner for this round, but the votes were still subtracted so that explains any discrepancies in the tallies. If you were the person who voted in our poll without having a smashboards account, and you are a real person wanting to participate, create an account and mention something in this thread and we will count your votes in future rounds.

Long Requested Newcomer Results:​

Balloon Fighter	1
Masked Man	2
Jill Dozer	3
Lugia	4
Meowth	5
Chibi Robo	6
Mach Rider	6
Excite Biker	9
Ray	12
Paper Mario	12
Ayumi Tachibana	14
Krystal	14
Saki	16
Toad	16
Geno	17
Sami / Andy !!!!	25

Spoiler: Full Results

Your Newcomer has been decided! Mostly.... Despite some hesitation at the start of this round we ended up getting some really quality submissions so thank you to everyone who submitted! Following these results, we will have a quite necessary discussion period!

Spoiler: Discussion Job containing spoilers to the winner

Discussion Period: Sami or Andy
Give us your best case or thoughts on whether Sami or Andy should be our playable representative of the Advance Wars series! I know very little about either character so I'm interested to hear what you all have to say. Venus will put up a poll at the top of the thread between the two later today, so in the meantime we shall discuss. Once this fighter is decided, we will move on to moveset submissions and surrounding Advance Wars content.

Additionally, Spirits can now be submitted from certain series which were submitted under this prompt, which include:

Spoiler: List of series and regulations

Chibi Robo
Custom Robo
Mach Rider
Excite
Drill Dozer
SMRPG (only SMRPG not other Mario RPGs)
Sin & Punishment
Famicom Detective Club
Balloon Fighter
Star Fox
MOTHER

As these are all either series without fighters, or ones without much left to add for Star Fox and MOTHER, don't go crazy with the amount of spirits submitted per series. This mainly applies to myself but it should still be said. I'm also not sure some of these series have any more art to to be submitted as spirits, like Mach Rider, but they're listed here in case there is art.

Mario will get its own event later since there are so many potential spirits from it compared to the ones listed, and Advance Wars will be eligible once we decide on the stage, fighter, alts, etc.

 

[Jondolio]

Ah, so close. Still, congrats to the Advance Wars fans!

 

[ivanlerma]

Geno was SO Close, But was quickly beaten by The Advance Wars Characters. Hopefully there's next time for the last character submission.

As for my thoughts on the winner, I've never played any of the games, besides a little bit of Dual Strike. But i wish to go for Andy. he is the main character of the first two games which would make so much sense.

Then again, Sami does have so much fan demand.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

"I thought it was ExciteBiker, but it was me, Andy!!"
- If Andy was DIO from JoJo.

 

[Jondolio]

Sami was popular enough to nearly get into Project M, and having more female characters doesn't hurt.
That being said, I've never played Advance Wars so I don't know what either of them can do (though I do plan on picking up the upcoming remake), and I think this should ultimately come down to moveset potential.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Congrats to the winner, especially since I voted for them. Sad I couldn’t fit Geno into my votelist, but the single point wouldn’t have mattered. Good to see the one who won did so by a decent amount and with such a broad coalition of voters, definitely inspires confidence that we can make the best out of the submission as can be!

Sad my own submission lost by such a landslide, but I had very little confidence in it anyway and hopefully the praise I gave to other characters helped garner them some votes.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Sadly that Geno or Excitebiker didn't make the cut, but I think they will come as DLC character (Possibly, but unsure) or Excitebiker as Suprise Character that maybe is not a Suprise.

 

[PeridotGX]

I think Sami should be the Advance Wars rep under this circumstance. Sami was planned to be in Project M, so we might as well tribute that side of Brawl while we're honoring the prerelease.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Sesame Seeds EarthBound series Novice class primary - 2 slots, no traits, balanced Stage: Omega Gerudo Valley Opponents: Tiny Mr. G&W (black), Tiny Mr. G&W (white) Song: Environmental Noises Rules: Stamina, foes die in one hit but are very fast

Croog Drill Dozer Advanced class primary - 3 slots, Fist attack resistance down, shield Stage: Luigi's Mansion (permanently destroyed) Opponent: Hoodie Wire Frame Mac Rules: Foe has a Franklin Badge and Super Leaf Song: Art Museum - Drill Dozer

Red Diamond Drill Dozer Ace class support - Undamaged attack and Speed up Summon with cores from Nabbit, 5-Volt (Angry), and two supports.

 

[Commander_Alph]

While Sami has a fighting capabilities I feel like Andy fits more with how the game works. Remember, you are controlling the army and while this is apply to every officer in the game Sami feels like you're playing a shooter character rather than a strategy game.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

In a fictional future where Snake can’t be renegotiated for we can just give his move set to Sami. So Andy would be rep 1 and Solid Sami would become rep 2

 

[Krookodilian]

I think I'm in favor of Sami, due to her being a girlboss, and Andy's gimmick likely being similar to Dave's, not to mention Eggmans.