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Super Smash Bros. Infinite Project (Finally Finished!???)

Which title should we use?


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GolisoPower

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Job 148:
South Korea
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In South Korea, video games are considered a major-scale social activity, and the country possesses full-on dominance in the eSports scene. In fact, video games are so big in the more pleasant half of ol' Hangug that there are places called "PC Bangs", where people gather to play PC games on a LAN connection for an hourly fee! One potential city where the South Korean portion of a Smash Infinite World Tour is of course its capital, Seoul.
 
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Krookodilian

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Western Fighter Results
The Beheaded1
Booker de Witt and Elizabeth2
Hat Girl3
Freddy Fazbear7
Rash Battletoad8
Jonesy Fortnite8
Bubsy the Bobcat9
The Sims10
Impostor Sus10
Ahri11
Hollow Knight15
Doom Guy15
Frisk Undertale19
Shovel Knight21
Crazy Dave23
Forms response chart. Question title: Please vote for a character from a Western IP to be our newcomer. Voting for a character in the 3 column will grant it 3 points, 2 2 points, and so on. You may vote for your own submission. Please make a selection in all three columns. Please vote for a character would be best implemented in Smash via moveset, stage, etc.. Number of responses: .

some of the names got cropped due to how big the image is so apologies for that.

Crazy Dave Joins the Battle!!!
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Our Western Fighter has been selected! Joining Banjo, Crash, and Steve, this marks our 4th Western fighter, and its certainly a unique one, which could have honestly been said about most of these excellent submissions, so thank you for submitting them! As stated in the prompt for this fighter, they will have a gimmick that is considered "DLC like". While there's no exact definition for what that means, most DLC fighters come with some form of gimmick, from Hero's menu, to Steve's Blocks, to Kazuya's whole moveset. So naturally, before we go into moveset submissions, we must decide on this gimmick, which will lead into our next discussion....

Gimmick Discussion
Our new fighter has a lot of potential gimmicks, including a sun meter, random seed packets, the prominence of plants or just dave attacking himself, and much more! While we won't be voting to hone in on one gimmick or rule out other gimmicks, we would like to hear thoughts on what his gimmick should be so we can make his moveset more cohesive now that we've rehauled the moveset process to combine multiple aspects of different submitted moves. So, what are your thoughts on how Dave should fight? We'd like to hear as many thoughts as possible, even if they're short, before moving into moveset submissions later tonight.

Runoff Discussion
In addition to Dave's Gimmick, we will have a simultaneous discussion, over the idea of doing run off voting. The move from voting in the thread to doing google forms seems to be favored, and is also easier for the leadership team to compile the votes, but there still remains room for improvement. Like with this fighter and many in the past, the winner often only wins by one or two votes which while potentially unavoidable is not exactly desireable. A concept which we think might be wroth exploring is taking the top 3 or however many based on the number of submissions, and entering a second round of voting to better hone in on the threads desires for who will join the fray. This runoff method has benefits such as potentially getting a fighter more aligned with the threads desires, but also has potential cons such as submissions being pitted against each other, taking longer, and tensions arising if a submission wins the first round only to lose in the second round. Regardless, its something we'd like to hear your thoughts on and may implement based on those thoughts.

Reminder that country submissions will stay open for a while longer.​
 

Commander_Alph

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I think it would be cool to have Dave's gimmick revolving around the time of day. Just like Steve it will have both an advantage and disadvantage, of course if we want to include this we have to have the Sunflower be a default option.

I probably want to include seed packets too, granted implementing it would be kinda a doozy but one idea that I have is this:
Basically an RNG like Hero, it could scroll besides his player UI.
 

Janx_uwu

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For Dave's gimmick, I think it would be interesting if he had a menu like Hero's command select, but with plants instead of special moves, and obviously with an aesthetic overhaul. Some plants would be stationary, some would walk around, and some would rest on top of Dave's head and attack with him. Just like in PvZ, each plant has a certain cost of sunshine, which you don't actually get over time or from Sunflowers, but instead from attacking your opponents and collecting the sunshine that seemingly falls out of them. The limit for plants could depend on which plants are out at the time-for example, you could have three Wall-Nuts, but obviously not three Chompers as that would be a bit OP. Perhaps this could lead to some issues (i.e. Dave getting a massive lead that is difficult to overcome, or having too much difficulty attacking his opponents without any plants), but this is just an idea that came off the top of my head.

Also I'm not opposed to runoff voting, could make the process much more interesting. Google Forms certainly streamlined the process, but I miss the excitement that came from sitting on the edge of my seat, counting up the votes in my own time, and activating ludicrous mouse speeds whenever I saw a SB notif for the Infinite thread. I understand why it was replaced but I would like to have some of that excitement again, in some way, shape, or form.
 

Glubbfubb

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Crazy Dave should have an auto generating sun meter, and each of his specials revolves around a specific plant he places that each does a specific thing, however each plant costs sun and you need to balance keeping yourself and the plants alive with this sun meter, on top of that Crazy Dave should have the ability to upgrade already existing plants into stronger plants (such as turning a Peashooter into a Repeater or a Blover into a Hurrikale for example) and the strategy revolves around balancing keeping yourself alice while also using the plants to take up space and help supplement his neutral attacks
 

SharkLord

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One idea for Crazy Dave I once had is that his smash attacks and special each place down a plant, which then act as turrets/mines/whatever a tower defense thing would act like. That way, he could do some crazy setups if you let him get his plants out. Tilts would be the standard garden items, like the rake, the shovel, the lawnmower, and his pot hat.
 

GolisoPower

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I could sort of imagine Crazy Dave being a character who's all about using the right plants for the right situation, a more strategic character that rewards risky plays and tactical area denial, much like how it works in the original PvZ. The idea of using the tools from the Zen garden sounds pretty fun, too.
 

Glubbfubb

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I found some great concept art a couple months back for some potential moveset ideas.

Yeah and you could use the sun meter to upgrade the walnut into either a tall obstructing tall nut, explosive explode o nut, or beefy primal wall not, you could also convert the potato mine into the stronger primal potato mine or change it into a spring bean that acts as a keep away bumper like tool
 

Wario Wario Wario

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I'm really glad we got Dave over a plant or zombie. He has so much character and is unlike any character we've ever seen in Smash yet - he doesn't move as weirdly as Wario does, but actually acts way weirder.

I don't really like the command list plant idea - I think I'd prefer each input have a specific plant tied to it, including non-specials. I've had this idea for a while of a fighter where every single input is basically a special move in its own right with unique properties (a bit like Mega Man, but slightly more complex) and Dave is a great fit for that, both in character and in powers. Might be hard to give him a level of strategy with that type of moveset though.
 
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Glubbfubb

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I'm really glad we got Dave over a plant or zombie. He has so much character and is unlike any character we've ever seen in Smash yet - he doesn't move as weirdly as Wario does, but actually acts way weirder.

I don't really like the command list plant idea - I think I'd prefer each input have a specific plant tied to it, including non-specials. I've had this idea for a while of a fighter where every single input is basically a special move in its own right with unique properties and Dave is a great fit for that, both in character and in powers.
What about the menu is used to upgrade existing plants placed, that way the planting itself is seamless but your allowed to complicated if you want
 

PeridotGX

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so - who is Crazy Dave, exactly? is he the main character of PVZ? It doesn't make sense to me to add a PVZ rep that isn't a Plant or Zombie, it kinda goes against the point of the game.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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What about the menu is used to upgrade existing plants placed, that way the planting itself is seamless but your allowed to complicated if you want
Hmm... that gives me an idea...

Every move uses a plant and has unique properties of some sort - a freezing tilt, a reflecting jab, a countering smash attack, so on - but all Dave's specials stay out like Pac-Man's hydrant or Villager's tree and can be upgraded with his down B menu?
 

GolisoPower

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so - who is Crazy Dave, exactly? is he the main character of PVZ? It doesn't make sense to me to add a PVZ rep that isn't a Plant or Zombie, it kinda goes against the point of the game.
Crazy Dave is sort of your "guidance" character in the game, as well as the shopkeep where you can buy various items and seeds. In a sense, he's a major character of the franchise, being the counterpart to the antagonist, Dr. Zomboss.
 

Adrianette Bromide

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Okay so we are obviously gonna go with sun collecting as a mechanic right? Well similar to how Steve gets different terrain based on the stage, Crazy Dave either gets sunlight or not based on if the stage has daylight or it is night/underground?

Night stages would force him to use shrooms while daytime Dave could start planting regular plants from the get-go.
 
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Glubbfubb

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Okay so we are obviously gonna go with sun collecting as a mechanic right? Well similar to how Steve gets different terrain based on the stage, Crazy Dave either gets sunlight or not based on if the stage has daylight or it is night/underground?

Night stages would force him to use shrooms while daytime Dave could start planting regular plants from the get-go.
That dosnt sound like a good idea as most competivpy viable stages are nighttime, so while implementing shrooms is a good idea (particularly a control scrambling hypno shroom) having dave be dependent on these items would make him very inconsistent in the tier lists
 

Wario Wario Wario

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Okay so we are obviously gonna go with sun collecting as a mechanic right? Well similar to how Steve gets different terrain based on the stage, Crazy Dave either gets sunlight or not based on if the stage has daylight or it is night/underground?

Night stages would force him to use shrooms while daytime Dave could start planting regular plants from the get-go.
Honestly I feel Steve's terrain was already pushing it. There's such a severely higher amount of daytime stages that this'd not be worth the time, and it'd be terrible for competitive players - especially with two of their main stages having real world day-night cycles. There's some stages where the time is ambiguous too - How do you equate a time period for Pac-Maze or PictoChat? Would Suzaku be day or night? Indoor stages like Kalos and Boxing Ring, what time do they take place in? The Metroid stages are probably on planets with no suns, how does that go down? If you make Magicant or Mushroom Kingdom 2 night stages on virtue of being dreams are you giving people who don't know the original lore a disadvantage? Do we judge Umbra from the time on the clock or the moon in the background?
 
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Janx_uwu

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Hmm... that gives me an idea...

Every move uses a plant and has unique properties of some sort - a freezing tilt, a reflecting jab, a countering smash attack, so on - but all Dave's specials stay out like Pac-Man's hydrant or Villager's tree and can be upgraded with his down B menu?
If the specials are his stationary plants, I think Peashooter as a Neutral B and Walnut as a Side B are essential, and how they could be upgraded has already been explained by others here. For the Up B, maybe we could do the Blover (like in the above Twitter concept)? Using it on the ground lets Dave and anyone else who comes into contact with the breeze hover for a bit. It's like how opponents can bounce on Sonic's spring, but this time it's more like Pac-Man's trampoline where it's easier to use it-or in this scenario, more difficult to avoid it. Upgrading makes it blow stronger and with a wider radius. Using the move in the air makes it automatically level 2 so that Dave can at least somewhat recover, but it automatically despawns when it hits the stage. Alternatively, you could hold Up B to have Dave hold it and have free reign over the Blover's gust for a limited amount of time.

Also, an idea for how to get sun-maybe his down smash would have him plant a Sunflower! On the offense it could bury an opponent if they're within range, and on defense it would give him a steady stream of sunlight-but it wouldn't take more than one or two hits to get rid of it.
 

GolisoPower

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Okay, here's an idea: what if he has two mechanics: a Sun counter and a money counter.

The Sun counter would, of course, be used to generate Plants at his position, each with their own unique effects. Meanwhile, the Money counter would be used to buy upgraded plants from his shop to use to his advantage. The shop would be at his position at the start of a match, much like Steve's Crafting Table. Why would he be buying stuff from his own shop? BECAUSE HE'S CRAAAAAAAAZY!!!
 

Janx_uwu

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Okay, here's an idea: what if he has two mechanics: a Sun counter and a money counter.

The Sun counter would, of course, be used to generate Plants at his position, each with their own unique effects. Meanwhile, the Money counter would be used to buy upgraded plants from his shop to use to his advantage. The shop would be at his position at the start of a match, much like Steve's Crafting Table. Why would he be buying stuff from his own shop? BECAUSE HE'S CRAAAAAAAAZY!!!
I like the idea but maybe having two meters and a crafting table and stationary turrets would be a bit too much.
 

cashregister9

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I think Crazy Dave could go far with a simple mechanic, something like just not taking damage increases a Sun meter that lets him use more powerful plants.

I think Dave could play like a more intense version of Jack-O from Guilty Gear.
 
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cashregister9

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Random idea: What if we represented microtransactions within Dave's moveset?

That's a concept that could either go super well or terribly wrong.
It depends on what you mean

If you mean a form of currency that you obtain and spend to upgrade Dave and his attacks I could see working.

If you mean basically having a joke mechanic that says nothing more than "EA Bad give like" then I couldn't really see it working.
 

Adrianette Bromide

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I'm personally vouching for turret creation to be his gimmick. It would represent tower defense well and such characters have existed in fighting games before (Jack-O). What I envision is that he has a sun meter that passively collects sun over time. I'd say let his neutral B be planting instead of his down B and make it a wheel like Shulk's monado arts (except plants).

You can plant Sunflowers to gain sun faster over time and then with more sun, you can plant offensive Plants. Peashooters are the most iconic plant of them all and would HAVE to be included. They could slowly fire at the closest enemy player. However, I think the Peashooters would at most flinch players.

Some other plants I could think of are the Potato Mine being a remote explosive similar to Snake's C4. The Hypno-shroom could put players that touch it to sleep for a relatively short time.

What I think is important though is that just like Steve's blocks, the plants will wilt away over time. Even if the plants can be damaged and KO'd, I think it'd be folly to think permanent plants on stage would be balanced. Think of the lag too!

His side specials could be using the plants in different ways (this could also take sun) and I imagine Crazy Dave would use a variety of gardening tools and plants for his normal attacks.

Also, would he be a heavyweight?
 
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Wario Wario Wario

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I'm personally vouching for turret creation to be his gimmick. It would represent tower defense well and such characters have existed in fighting games before (Jack-O). What I envision is that he has a sun meter that passively collects sun over time. I'd say let his neutral B be planting instead of his down B and make it a wheel like Shulk's monado arts (except plants).

You can plant Sunflowers to gain sun faster over time and then with more sun, you can plant offensive Plants. Peashooters are the most iconic plant of them all and would HAVE to be included. They could slowly fire at the closest enemy player. However, I think the Peashooters would at most flinch players.

Some other plants I could think of are the Potato Mine being a remote explosive similar to Snake's C4. The Hypno-Shroom could put players that touch it to sleep for a relatively short time.

What I think is important though is that just like Steve's blocks, the plants will wilt away over time. Even if the plants can be damaged and KO'd, I think it'd be folly to think permanent plants on stage would be balanced. Think of the lag too!

His side specials could be using the plants in different ways (this could also take sun) and I imagine Crazy Dave would use a variety of gardening tools and plants for his normal attacks.

Also, would he be a heavyweight?
I feel this is the best take on Dave yet.
 

GolisoPower

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Another question regarding the plants is how many should be in the set altogether. I mean, Eggman has countless Badniks but we stuck with the 6 for ease of use. But Crazy Dave has just as many plants to fight with and I'm still not sure how many should be in. Whether they're offensive, defensive, support or otherwise. That's why I think I may have a solution: you pick a set of plants go use when selecting Crazy Dave in the CSS. You can put in any different combination of plants to use to your advantage. You want to limit their options? Add a Wall-nut and a Garlic. You want amazing burst damage? Get you some Cherry Bombs, Chompers and Potato Mines, maybe even a Doomshroom. Would you rather chip away at the opponent? Deck yourself out with Bonk Choys, Repeaters and Gloomshrooms. Want as many plants as humanly possible to annoy your foes? Get Puff-shrooms for days! It'd be however you want! Sure, it'd run the risk of players looking to optimize the loadouts, but I'm sure we could balance them all enough for there to be no optimized plant loadout. I mean, Sakurai already balanced over 80 characters in Ultimate already, who's to say we can't balance dozens of plants for a customizable layout, huh?
 
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Krookodilian

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There are tons of different way of going about Wacky David's moveset, so I'll share my two cents on a couple of them

Sun Meter:
This one seems to be the most obvious, and as the core mechanic that the entire gameplay of Plants Vs. Zombies revolves around it makes a lot of sense to include. However, there are a lot of ways to go about implementing it. The Sun could be used for every attack that involves a plant, only specials, only plants that you place down, or only used to "upgrade" plants, such as wallnut to Tall nut, Peashooter to Repeater to Threepeater, etc. I don't have a terribly strong feeling one way or the other, but it does seem like the most obvious thing to include for Dave.

There's also the question of whether only planting plants with his specials would use sun, or also moves like aerial which use plants as well. Im leaning towards not using sun for the aerials, but Steve's down air uses iron and does nothing if you have zero, so its a possibility.

Day/Night Cycle:
The idea of Dave not getting automatic sun on night stages seems interesting, although I dont think it would work too well in execution. It would be quite unbalanced, as he would just be weaker on some stages, and some stages have cycling day night cycles, not to mention unclear stages such as the Metroid ones and Pac-Maze. Potentially keeping him the same but with the sunshroom replacing the sunflower on night stages would be cool, but we'd have to designate which stages count as night stages.

Potted Plants/Turrets:
Like the Sun Meter, this would be a great way to emulate the Tower Defense elements of Plants Vs. Zombies. It feels natural, and the peashooter would be an obvious one, but theres lots of specifics that could be discussed regarding potted plants. I think as Addy mentioned, a dedicated special and a wheel make the most sense, instead of different plants for different specials or a random menu. Plants Vs. Zombies is all about deliberate strategy, and not a random plant selection, so a random menu loses that element of strategy imo. I also think theres room for other more specific plants, such as wallnut and potato mine for the Side and Down specials, which leads me to want to keep the "turrets" to one move.

You could select between a peashooter, cabbage pult, or puff shroom on the wheel, which would all have varying stats of power, range, longevity, and arc in the case of the Cabbage Pult. From there, like in the bejeweled minigames, you could have the option of upgrading your plants for the cost of even more sun. Peashooters can branch into repeater, which goes into the gatling pea, or snow pea, which slows, or threepeater, which fires three peas at a higher position than the regular peashooter, Split Pea for both directions, or even the fire/electric peashooters from plants vs zombies 2 which would have those effects. The Puffshroom could be upgraded into the scaredy shroom for range, or the fume shroom for power and the ability to hit multiple opponents in free for alls. Finally, the Cabbage Pult could be upgraded into the Kernel Pult for a chance of stunning the enemy with butter, or the Melon Pult for more power, which could then be upgraded to the winter melon for even more power plus a slowing effect. This end tier upgrades would obviously cost a ton of sun making them rare to get, but possible if played well.

I think its best to limit it to one "turret" on screen at once for the possibility of 8 Daves playing at once, as well as the potato mine and wall nut moves being a thing. I like Addy's idea of digging up the plant with a shovel down tilt in the event that you want to reposition your plants or remove them.

Rechargeable Seed Packets:
In Plants Vs. Zombies, not only are you limited by sun, but plants have to recharge before you can place another one. This could be another option to explore limiting the number of plants on screen at once, although I think just stopping it at one per "class" of plants plus a sun meter would be sufficient.

Money Meter:
While in plants Vs. Zombies you do have to pay for Dave's Twiddydinkies, or gardening equipment, I think we have enough to manage for the need of another meter. Plus in the game you're buying the equipment from Dave, so we can assume Dave already has them. A taunt featuring a marigold giving random coins, either a silver coin, gold coin, or a rare diamond would be a nice reference though.​
 

Yiptap

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I‘ve seen several gimmick ideas, but my main concern is Dave being too similar too Steve. I feel we need to try hard to make Crazy Dave unique, because he would almost certainly be a summoner, which we have two of already (Barista and Eggman, the latter of which is already in not so great condition due to being another mech-user, which is another one we already have (Cite Octavio)).
 

GolisoPower

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I‘ve seen several gimmick ideas, but my main concern is Dave being too similar too Steve. I feel we need to try hard to make Crazy Dave unique, because he would almost certainly be a summoner, which we have two of already (Barista and Eggman, the latter of which is already in not so great condition due to being another mech-user, which is another one we already have (Cite Octavio)).
That's why I've got the idea of choosing which plants you can summon before the match even begins. It's just like in the original game, too: before you start a level, you pick a loadout of different plants to use, and you fight using whatever's in your hand. Though there are problems (Some players try to optimize their loadouts, balancing so many plants is a task), I believe choosing which ones you can summon would make Dave unique even in comparison to Barista and Eggman.
 

Adrianette Bromide

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So how do we handle the Zombie rep?
We know their type: tall, dark and dead and they want to bite all the petals off of the plants' head
And eat the brains of Crazy Dave who planted them there

As for how to handle the Sunflower
She's just a sunflower you see
But she can power an entire infantry
If the zombies like the taste of brains, then its fitting that Dave's playstyle wouldn't like zombies
 
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Wario Wario Wario

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So how do we handle the Zombie rep?
We know their type: tall, dark and dead and they want to bite all the petals off of the plants' head
And eat the brains of Crazy Dave who planted them there

As for how to handle the Sunflower
She's just a sunflower you see
But she can power an entire infantry
If the zombies like the taste of brains, then its fitting that Dave's playstyle wouldn't like zombies
Stupid idea I'll regret 0.2 seconds after hitting "post reply":

Every passing stock, Dave gets slightly zombified which makes him slightly more powerful - though his plant turrets are consistently as powerful no matter how zombified he is, or maybe speed or plants (not both of course) weaken with every stock?
 
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Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Please keep in mind that the Leadership will be piecing together a Gimmick for Crazy Dave based on the feedback put forth by the thread. Once we get a Gimmick established, we will present it to the thread and then begin moveset submissions.
 

Glubbfubb

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Okay from what I seen I think I made a gimmick everyone can agree on

Crazy Dave like Robin or Hero has a Mana meter, in this case an auto generating sun meter, this meter is used to create the many plants in his arsenal, the big twist is that each special has several sub specials for different plants, for example you can either create a Peashooter with your neutral special or use twice the sun to make a a repeater or create a freezing snow pea, for the side special you could create a walnut as a barrier or create a spring bean as a trampoline trap, with explode o nut being a more expensive explosive cousin. Recovery normally can be a simple blower but you can change the sun meter down like diddy king to create a freezing hurrikale, a maste dave player must balance his sun meter with putting down his defenses as you can place multible of the same special, the main goal is to close up space and use the plants to supplement his neutral attack
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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We would like to still focus on Gimmick Discussion as the team is still considering all possible ways to incorporate this into his character set. But, as the saying goes, "Development teams never rest, they toil on like lambs to the slaughter!"

Well.....I am not sure you actually says that. Maybe Crazy Dave does.,...


We will continue to allow Gimmick discussion and will gradually move into moveset submissions once we get a solid basis down. This could take a day so please sit tight. With that being said, we will dive into our newest 3rd party IP and the second Western IP, Plants vs Zombies!

Job #149: Submit a Plants vs Zombies Stage
It would feel like an insult to not include a stage from this series. Now, I know next to nothing about the game but, from my understanding, a good portion of it takes place on top of Crazy Dave`s house. I imagine that`s where the bulk of our submissions comes from but that shouldn`t limit what kind of content we get!

Any stages that incorporates Crazy Dave`s rooftop will be compiled into Rooftop Submissions and, if that wins, we will decide which submission to vote for. I do want to encourage people to try different approaches for submitting content: not only to win but also to increase your own knowledge of the series.

As per usual, please include the following information:

  • Name
  • Picture
  • Layout and Appearance
  • Any Stage Gimmicks or Hazards
  • Any Cameos
Appearance of Battlefield and Omega forms
 
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