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Super Smash Battle Opera - West Lafayette, IN, USA

Lavos

Lavos

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
299
Location
Purdue, West Lafayette
ITT: Crying about other people's opinions

Hey guys! I live in West Lafayette and I like smash brothers! Let's talk about that!

I was just wondering why Ganondorf is in the very middle of the tiers. Before I get into what I mean, allow me to first put out there that I have been playing for years, and I have watched MANY videos of the tournament masters.

My brother and I found out, through years of play, literally EVERY advanced technique in the game, except the wavedash, which we stumbled upon, but wrote off as simply hilarious. I was surprised to find that all the wacky observations we have encountered and adapted are actually defined in the glossary in the sticky topic above! Three of the particularly surprising terms that I could not believe had been widely known and utilized were the Phantom Hit (I just thought I had a glitchy game) and that effect where recovering at the right time from attacks that sent you flying results in an upward boost if you jump out/air dodge/whatever early enough (I cannot remember what it was called in the sticky), and the waveland.

Now, I have been using Ganondorf against my brother lately, and he cannot seem to beat me. We think we know why, and we think it puts Ganon at the top of the tiers. I will be brief. Ganondorf has his air forward. We call it 'The Punch.' It has that special hitbox like a sword, hence it goes right through anything except an attack with that same type of hitbox. It does 17% max, is relatively fast executing, has basically instant recovery on a barrier cancel, and is quite massive, killing at rather low percentages.

If he misses, he can just do his A punch if the opponent tries to retaliate, or shield/roll. I am telling you, Ganondorf is a crazy meat mountain who crushes bones with many attacks doing 15+%, survives to insane damages thanks to his weight, and has ridiculous horizontal recovery (Double Jump, Ganondorf Kick Down B, ANOTHER Double Jump, ARE YOU SERIOUS, Up B).

Next, check his roll. It goes like half screen. It makes him rather fast, nearly eliminating his speed problem on the ground, and a great character when it comes to the defensive game. It pretty much eliminates the need for his wavedash, which, with Ganondorf, who needs to do most of his attacking from hops, is pretty much useless already unless you are looking to smash attack. Wavesmashing, however, in my opinion, is also a bad idea, because, in the time and damage it takes you to actually land a smash, you could have just used The Punch and killed you opponent by then.

Even though he has to fight mostly in the air, 3 of his 4 air attacks are pretty fast, and are quite massive. A major advantage he has is that nearly all his attacks move the opponent considerably, and can topple him from 0%, so his opponent gets little to no counterattack opportunity.

The only explanation I can find for why he is low on the tiers is that no one has used him seriously. I think he really keeps up, if not tops, the top tier characters.

I really do not like to simply shoot my mouth, and I am not one who thinks it right to shower a character in encomium, and never actually prove anything. Is there online for this somewhere, or is that simply wishful thinking? If not, please do not yell at me and stuff until you at least check out The Punch. Goes right through projectiles, goes right through attacks, goes right through faces. Please just give Ganondorf another shot and tell me what you thnk.

Final Comment: People have a tendency to think that posts from newcomers to a board but veterans of its respective game are saying they are better than everyone else, regardles of what the post actually says. Please note that I did not say 'I am better than you' or 'Ganon is better than Fox.' I said, essentially: 'Ganon seems to be great. These are his strengths. He may top Fox. Check him out and see if you agree.' I will say, however, that I am a full master of Ganondorf.

Please give Ganondorf a second look before responding so you know where I am coming from!
 
NJzFinest

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
8,861
Location
NYC
lol Tomacawk, ite, here we go:

Trolls Trolling Trolls

One troll deliberatly acts like a ****tard in order to gain attention

---> my "lol@MW Melee" post, check!

A second troll, believing the first troll is being serious, attacks them using another extreme form of ****tardedness.

---> Dart and other nonsense, check!

The two will banter back and forth, one thinking that he is totally pwning the other.

---> checkaroo!!!

The end result it either:

One gives up and leaves. The other (wrongly) thinks he has won.

---> Hmm

Both realise they have made a stupid mistake and claim it was all a joke. Honest.

---> HMMMMMMMMMMMM


edit:

LOL at Jay's post
 
BunBun

BunBun

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
4,772
Location
50 Terranite? Really?
Oh god****it JayZ.

What a good thread.

Lavos said:
ITT: Crying about other people's opinions

Hey guys! I live in West Lafayette and I like smash brothers! Let's talk about that!

I was just wondering why Ganondorf is in the very middle of the tiers. Before I get into what I mean, allow me to first put out there that I have been playing for years, and I have watched MANY videos of the tournament masters.

My brother and I found out, through years of play, literally EVERY advanced technique in the game, except the wavedash, which we stumbled upon, but wrote off as simply hilarious. I was surprised to find that all the wacky observations we have encountered and adapted are actually defined in the glossary in the sticky topic above! Three of the particularly surprising terms that I could not believe had been widely known and utilized were the Phantom Hit (I just thought I had a glitchy game) and that effect where recovering at the right time from attacks that sent you flying results in an upward boost if you jump out/air dodge/whatever early enough (I cannot remember what it was called in the sticky), and the waveland.

Now, I have been using Ganondorf against my brother lately, and he cannot seem to beat me. We think we know why, and we think it puts Ganon at the top of the tiers. I will be brief. Ganondorf has his air forward. We call it 'The Punch.' It has that special hitbox like a sword, hence it goes right through anything except an attack with that same type of hitbox. It does 17% max, is relatively fast executing, has basically instant recovery on a barrier cancel, and is quite massive, killing at rather low percentages.

If he misses, he can just do his A punch if the opponent tries to retaliate, or shield/roll. I am telling you, Ganondorf is a crazy meat mountain who crushes bones with many attacks doing 15+%, survives to insane damages thanks to his weight, and has ridiculous horizontal recovery (Double Jump, Ganondorf Kick Down B, ANOTHER Double Jump, ARE YOU SERIOUS, Up B).

Next, check his roll. It goes like half screen. It makes him rather fast, nearly eliminating his speed problem on the ground, and a great character when it comes to the defensive game. It pretty much eliminates the need for his wavedash, which, with Ganondorf, who needs to do most of his attacking from hops, is pretty much useless already unless you are looking to smash attack. Wavesmashing, however, in my opinion, is also a bad idea, because, in the time and damage it takes you to actually land a smash, you could have just used The Punch and killed you opponent by then.

Even though he has to fight mostly in the air, 3 of his 4 air attacks are pretty fast, and are quite massive. A major advantage he has is that nearly all his attacks move the opponent considerably, and can topple him from 0%, so his opponent gets little to no counterattack opportunity.

The only explanation I can find for why he is low on the tiers is that no one has used him seriously. I think he really keeps up, if not tops, the top tier characters.

I really do not like to simply shoot my mouth, and I am not one who thinks it right to shower a character in encomium, and never actually prove anything. Is there online for this somewhere, or is that simply wishful thinking? If not, please do not yell at me and stuff until you at least check out The Punch. Goes right through projectiles, goes right through attacks, goes right through faces. Please just give Ganondorf another shot and tell me what you thnk.

Final Comment: People have a tendency to think that posts from newcomers to a board but veterans of its respective game are saying they are better than everyone else, regardles of what the post actually says. Please note that I did not say 'I am better than you' or 'Ganon is better than Fox.' I said, essentially: 'Ganon seems to be great. These are his strengths. He may top Fox. Check him out and see if you agree.' I will say, however, that I am a full master of Ganondorf.

Please give Ganondorf a second look before responding so you know where I am coming from!
Click to expand...
 
DracoFox

DracoFox

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Messages
943
Location
Lafayette, IN
All you "queef cookies" need to shut the **** up about brawl. Because of Brawl, I have wasted the past 10mins of my life trying to catch up to what I've missed on this thread. Concluding this matter, obviously I haven't missed anything since the spiral of depression and *********** of Brawl even being brought up.

Brawl = waste of time!!!

Anyways, I'm hosting a smashfest at my place this weekend on Saturday. Is anyone interested?
 
Lanceinthepants

Lanceinthepants

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
1,161
Location
Purdue
DracoFox said:
All you "queef cookies" need to shut the **** up about brawl. Because of Brawl, I have wasted the past 10mins of my life trying to catch up to what I've missed on this thread. Concluding this matter, obviously I haven't missed anything since the spiral of depression and *********** of Brawl even being brought up.

Brawl = waste of time!!!

Anyways, I'm hosting a smashfest at my place this weekend on Saturday. Is anyone interested?
Click to expand...
Most definitely.
 
NJzFinest

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
8,861
Location
NYC
Lucario is way more versatile and is a bigger threat in his respective tier. With Salamence out of the picture, it's pretty much the perfect late game sweeper in OU. All of his counters, Hippowdon and Gliscor for instance, are common early game and almost always the first to go down. Aside from that, almost nothing can survive the brute force of it's +2 Close Combat in addition to ExtremeSpeed / Bullet Punch.

Mewtwo isn't the destructive force it used to be in Ubers. Far too many people with good resistances and special defense are used in this tier. It's even rare to find a Mewtwo with Flamethrower / Fire Blast, making Scizor and Metagross much more reliable counters. Kygore, Lugia, Blissey, Giratina, Deoxys, and Ho-Oh are a few of those that just laugh at Mewtwo's AuraSphere/Ice Beam and threaten it right off the bat. Even the typical choice scarf users we see in Ubers, like Palkia, Jirachi, Darkrai, Heatran, and Dialga, also make good options to eliminating Mewtwo.

Lucario is much more difficult to counter.
 
NJzFinest

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
8,861
Location
NYC
You guys should plan a trip to RoM3 or Pound 5.

Kirk needs to come to the eastcoast at least once...
YLink vs Falco rematch plz

Jayford, you broke my heart when you didn't come to Apex...
Ike vs Puff MM must go down :)
 
Mr H

Mr H

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
813
Location
Purdue
NJzFinest said:
Lucario is way more versatile and is a bigger threat in his respective tier. With Salamence out of the picture, it's pretty much the perfect late game sweeper in OU. All of his counters, Hippowdon and Gliscor for instance, are common early game and almost always the first to go down. Aside from that, almost nothing can survive the brute force of it's +2 Close Combat in addition to ExtremeSpeed / Bullet Punch.

Lucario is much more difficult to counter.
Click to expand...
Lucario isnt as much of a threat as he use to be in OU even with sala gone. His speed stat is only 90 and he has no bulk to him and i personally dont like his coverage of moves on sword dance set. Rotom-H has become very popular in the OU meta game and counters alot of things including lucario. the only way lucario can counter Rotom is by running crunch but then ofc it loses its ExtremeSpeed, Bullet Punch, or Stone edge making it easily countered by a variety of things when you learn what move it is missing. What Hurts Lucario more is that Gengar along with Rotom have climbed in usage in OU From 6th and 7th in june(before Salamence ban) to 3rd and 4th august (after salamence's ban). Lucario is Still a viable late game sweeper but i wouldn't say he is anywhere near a perfect late game sweeper

also mewtwo is an *******
 
BunBun

BunBun

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
4,772
Location
50 Terranite? Really?
NJzFinest said:
Lucario is way more versatile and is a bigger threat in his respective tier. With Salamence out of the picture, it's pretty much the perfect late game sweeper in OU. All of his counters, Hippowdon and Gliscor for instance, are common early game and almost always the first to go down. Aside from that, almost nothing can survive the brute force of it's +2 Close Combat in addition to ExtremeSpeed / Bullet Punch.

Mewtwo isn't the destructive force it used to be in Ubers. Far too many people with good resistances and special defense are used in this tier. It's even rare to find a Mewtwo with Flamethrower / Fire Blast, making Scizor and Metagross much more reliable counters. Kygore, Lugia, Blissey, Giratina, Deoxys, and Ho-Oh are a few of those that just laugh at Mewtwo's AuraSphere/Ice Beam and threaten it right off the bat. Even the typical choice scarf users we see in Ubers, like Palkia, Jirachi, Darkrai, Heatran, and Dialga, also make good options to eliminating Mewtwo.

Lucario is much more difficult to counter.
Click to expand...
This has very little to do with the conversation lmao.

Besides, Red and Mewtwo beat Giovanni and Deoxys pretty handily.

I look forward to all the new legendaries showing up, just to see what happens.
 
NJzFinest

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
8,861
Location
NYC
Mr H said:
Lucario isnt as much of a threat as he use to be in OU even with sala gone. His speed stat is only 90 and he has no bulk to him and i personally dont like his coverage of moves on sword dance set. Rotom-H has become very popular in the OU meta game and counters alot of things including lucario. the only way lucario can counter Rotom is by running crunch but then ofc it loses its ExtremeSpeed, Bullet Punch, or Stone edge making it easily countered by a variety of things when you learn what move it is missing. What Hurts Lucario more is that Gengar along with Rotom have climbed in usage in OU From 6th and 7th in june(before Salamence ban) to 3rd and 4th august (after salamence's ban). Lucario is Still a viable late game sweeper but i wouldn't say he is anywhere near a perfect late game sweeper

also mewtwo is an *******
Click to expand...
Rotom is not a late game pokemon, I already covered the fact these bulky Lucario counters basically don't exist late game. As for Gengar, boosted Bullet Punch destroys it.
Mewtwo on the other hand has counters that range from tanks, to choice users, to even typical sweepers that can't even outspeed it.
 
zephyrmace

zephyrmace

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
446
Location
Hialeah, FL/W.Lafayette, IN
=[ salamence was my favorite 3rd gen pokemon. Like 2 of my top 5 fav pkmn are banned (top 5: Vaporeon, totodile, tyranitar, salamence, and garchomp). Yes totodile. He's my favorite. So cute and fluffy
 
Mr H

Mr H

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
813
Location
Purdue
NJzFinest said:
Rotom is not a late game pokemon, I already covered the fact these bulky Lucario counters basically don't exist late game. As for Gengar, boosted Bullet Punch destroys it.
Click to expand...
you have to let lucario get the sword dance in tho lawl
the uber meta game is ********
 
Rin10-10

Rin10-10

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
551
Location
Xanadu
Well ... gods ****it ... I thought I had two exams today, but I suck at reading what month it is.
So! I'd like to take a break from studying pointless things. Anyone up for smash for a bit?
 
ORLY

ORLY

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Messages
3,378
Location
C CAWWW
Is it likely that you Purdue guys are gonna get a car and go to Hot Dickings next month?
 
Roneblaster

Roneblaster

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
6,041
Location
#MangoNation
george, go watch the videos im uploading and confrim or deny if that orange fox is you.

also, did katma and andale play in brackets? cause i have them 2 playing i think right after dart vs katma
 
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