Super Smash Battle Opera - West Lafayette, IN, USA

[kirkq]

- Legal Stages:
1. Singles random: Battlefield, Final Destination, Dreamland 64, Pokémon Stadium, Fountain of Dreams, Yoshi's Story
2. Singles Counterpick: All singles random stages, Rainbow Cruise, Brinstar, Mute City, Kongo Jungle 64

The way falco and fox own corneria and poke floats is exactly the same way peach and jigglypuff own on brinstar and mute city and kongo jungle 64.

I haven't even counterpicked any of the "questionable" stages except against Carl.

And, for the record, if I ever see anybody get up and leave the room in the middle of a match while camping on opposite sides of the stage for the full time limit, all concerned parties will be entirely disqualified. I consider that a sign of utmost disrespect not only to me as a tournament organizer but also to everybody else who has to wait and waste their time as the supposed "competitors" don't even try to compete.

No one watches our matches when we play seriously anyway. Let me know when this supposed "crowd" actually wants to watch our matches. No one was ever waiting on our matches to finish in winner's bracket, nor was the TV required at that point.

I read a good deal of bias towards stage selection as a result of your standing to win money in this tournament. I hate to bring this up, Carl, but I really only heard complaints about this ruleset when you found that you could not counterpick Kirk to a stage on which you could easily beat him (or so you stated)

I'll play on whatever stage Carl wants, I don't think it gives him any more of a chance of beating me. I don't believe I have ever complained about Green Greens being used as a counterpick. I prefer counterpick stages over the neutrals anyway, they are more interesting matches.

Better yet, just make a section of rules devoted to Kirk vs. Carl because that's all you're complaining about right now. Carl and I play numerous times a week, we know how most of the matches are going to turn out. Carl's Fox/Sheik vs Kirk's Falco on the same 5 stages gets pretty boring the 200th time.

If you just want me to go through brackets slaughtering everyone as fast as possible with falco and having no fun just let me know. I could also take up laser spamming on FD/Dream Land for 8 minutes. (See Kirkq vs Fro) It's a legitimate tactic.

4x3 pools matches and 3x3 + 3x5 brackets sets. I could play 36 matches throughout the tournament, and I could make each of them take 8 minutes. I would be playing singles for about 4.8 straight hours.


Being a TO is serious business.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-7gmds2njg

 

[BunBun]

Hey, Iggy's alive.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with any of these stages. I've been screwed over on PokeFloats and Corneria a few times, but it doesn't happen too many times.

Besides, each player has the option to ban one stage. Ban whichever you want, and then even if you're counterpicked to a gay stage, it'll only happen for one match.

The sequence also works to prevent stupidity. The first stage is always a neutral, giving each player a (more or less) equal chance to win (though I agree, some neutral stages favor certain characters over others, but that's just how random has to work). Whichever player loses gets to counterpick a stage, presumably one that character will win on. If that character decides to be a ****, and wins, then you get to counterpick him right back, and presumably win on your stage. Whether you win or lose the first match, it tends to balance out from the counterpicking (granted, the winner does have a slight advantage).

As for GG/JJ, I have no idea how dumb they can be, but I think it would be interesting to include them for a trial period to see if they are abused.

 

[CunningKitsune]

Carl, I suppose I will have to read the rules aloud before we begin each tournament as apparently posting them in the first post and printing out sheets with the entire ruleset on them at each station is not enough. As well, while I admit that the bannings did not directly lead to the surprising recent increase in attendance, nobody can ignore the impact that first impressions can make on anybody in most any situation. This is simply my attempt to do whatever little things I can to increase attendance, even if only by a few people; why would you stand in the way of that, in the way of my goals as a TO, when the game as you know it is still there? To finish off, Carl, I will concede that if you can get the unbridled majority of our tournament attendance to insist that they have a clear preference that the stages (Green Greens, Floats, Corneria, and Jungle Japes) be on, then I will unban them; that is, after all, the best thing that a TO can do. However, seeing as how a number of SSBOs have gone by without this being very much of a vocal issue (with regards to Green Greens and Jungle Japes), I wish you good luck in this endeavor. To me, the numbers speak for themselves at this point, but if you can show me that others outside of yourself (as you stated, you were the only one who complained) would like for these stages to be on, then I will bring them back.

Jay, I understand where you're coming from in your post, but you also must understand where I'm coming from. At this point, all I really have to go on is hypotheticals; I need to anticipate any and all future interest in this series and do what I can to draw it in (once again, this has long been one of my goals as a TO for this series). And yes, in a way, I suppose you could say that I am being biased toward new players, but how is this harmful in any way toward our established group of players? Based on the fact that we have gotten consistent attendance whenever possible from our core players (even with the banning of Jungle Japes and Green Greens), I can now safely turn my attention toward new players, which I am doing now as best as I can in these circumstances. Call it an experiment, if you will. Again, if you have a clear preference toward having these stages on, simply post your opinions and, if enough support gathers, I will turn them back on; as you have stated, I should be listening to my players, provided that their demands are logical.

Kirk, the fact that you two entirely left the room makes me question how serious you guys were during that match. The occupied TV is not so much the problem as was the signal that you guys gave me that you don't even respect me as a TO enough even to be in front of the TV while you play. Address that for me, please, and afterwards tell me why you felt it was necessary that you two entirely leave the room mid-match. Again, this is an issue of respect, an issue of showing me that you actually appreciate the events that I run.

 

[Mr H]

The way falco and fox own corneria and poke floats is exactly the same way peach and jigglypuff own on brinstar and mute city and kongo jungle 64.

because peach and jiggs are top tier right?

so u are saying we should unban stages to help top tiers fox and falco out? makes since >.>

sure jj and gg are fun to play but they dont make good tourney stages

 

[voorhese]

Ohhh, OUCH. Dud, Bunbun, that's gotta hurt- being insignificant to The Voorheese to where he doesn't even remember playing you in singles. Heh, I guess when you go on rolling rampages like the Vooorheese does in singles, you pay little mind to the countless poor souls you eliminate from the tourney.

...as much as i wished this this wasnt sarcasm, but im pretty sure it is, my non mind has trouble telling the difference, anyways im pretty sure i placed 9th , which i feel is not as good as i could of done, and the most matches i won the brackets was 1 match*edit (which just happened to be bunbun) =( after draco beat me everything went down hill, and i will get him back for it =)

All that means is I need to slap him around a bit. I've got a nice Louisville slugger in my
room <3



Just kidding Jvor, you know I'm not violent =P

the reason is because i missed the whole its andrew from carls account thing, i thought u were carl lol



ps as soon as i read half a page about the gg/jj argument i just stoped reading

 

[Lavos]

I clearly said that I was joking and that it was pointing out the flawed logic of your reasoning. Banning stages to attract new people? That doesn't make any sense. If anything, the newbies wouldn't have a clue about the "why"s and "how"s of banning stages. I was joking before, but if you're serious about increasing attendance at the expense of the experienced players enjoyment, add items. You were the one who made the change to ban the stages, thus the burden of proof is on you, not us. You should be the one to poll the experienced players to see if they like the stages or not. You go out and poll the newbies to see if their coming to the tournies is a result of the stage bans. See if they were even aware of the list of counterpick stages before they came here. I know two of the people I played on Saturday weren't.

If Obama was asked in a debate "Why is your energy plan the most beneficial to the country?", and he responded "I dunno, prove to me that it isn't", WOULD YOU VOTE FOR HIM!? No, the burden of proof is on the one who makes the change.

Actually, I have a better idea! How about you poll people who are not part of the tourny yet and see what stages they would like to play. That is your target audience after all! Rather than "guessing" what newbies want, you can know for sure. Then we can have a tourny with Temple, Brinstar depths, and Big blue as neutral, items on, and you can be positive that it's for the sake of benefiting attendance.

Honestly though, Smash is a niche game. The "newbs" you're telling us that you want to attract don't really exist. There's no one out there who likes smash, but isn't going to enter the tourny because the counterpick stage list is too large. Attendance is growing due to simple word of mouth, nothing more. By "catering to newbs" you're doing nothing but alienating the few people you already have. Not a wise strategy when the pool of available players is already shrinking.

BUT HEY! That's just my thoughts! If it helps you sleep better at night, you can tell yourself that you're banning stages to attract newbs (who upon closer inspection didn't even know these stages were banned).

 

[BIG C]

JJ/GG banned huge johnz even though they both can cause camping every stage allows for camping. I mean you should just read a disclaimer for the noobs that states carl and kirk play hella gay and this is not what most of the community does. just my two cents.

 

[Ignatius]

If Obama was asked in a debate "Why is your energy plan the most beneficial to the country?", and he responded "I dunno, prove to me that it isn't", WOULD YOU VOTE FOR HIM!? No, the burden of proof is on the one who makes the change.

Are you kidding me?? If a candidate was awesome enough to do that, Id actually register just so I could vote for him.

 

[ac_burito]

would it be possible to make the rule where a banned stage would be legal if both players agreed to playing that stage? or something like that?

 

[NJzFinest]

Carl, I suppose I will have to read the rules aloud before we begin each tournament as apparently posting them in the first post and printing out sheets with the entire ruleset on them at each station is not enough. As well, while I admit that the bannings did not directly lead to the surprising recent increase in attendance, nobody can ignore the impact that first impressions can make on anybody in most any situation. This is simply my attempt to do whatever little things I can to increase attendance, even if only by a few people; why would you stand in the way of that, in the way of my goals as a TO, when the game as you know it is still there? To finish off, Carl, I will concede that if you can get the unbridled majority of our tournament attendance to insist that they have a clear preference that the stages (Green Greens, Floats, Corneria, and Jungle Japes) be on, then I will unban them; that is, after all, the best thing that a TO can do. However, seeing as how a number of SSBOs have gone by without this being very much of a vocal issue (with regards to Green Greens and Jungle Japes), I wish you good luck in this endeavor. To me, the numbers speak for themselves at this point, but if you can show me that others outside of yourself (as you stated, you were the only one who complained) would like for these stages to be on, then I will bring them back.

Funny, when you first banned JJ/GG, you said it was simply because of the gayness. Regarding the increase in attendance, didn't people attend it simply because they heard about it + most of them where voorheses' friends? If not, why weren't they aware of counterpick stages or even the fact they can choose a stage?
Also, instead of having people vote to have it banned or unbanned, how about this:
"If JJ/GG was legal, would you still attend SSBO tournaments?"

because peach and jiggs are top tier right?

Last time I checked, they were pretty close and are still used in high level play. Yes, Peach is actually better when you don't spam Dsmash and make use of all advanced techs, true story.
Nevertheless, what Kirkq says remains factual.

so u are saying we should unban stages to help top tiers fox and falco out? makes since >.>

sure jj and gg are fun to play but they dont make good tourney stages

Floats and Corneria are more favorable for space animals then JJ/GG.
Seriously, how many times have you seen JJ/GG played by space animal players compared to other stages? Also, when you consider all matchups/counterpicks, these stages may end up becoming necessary for high level play. Ex. Forward, Mew2King, Bum, etc.
"They don't make good tourney stages", yet almost every tourney has them legal.

JJ/GG banned huge johnz even though they both can cause camping every stage allows for camping. I mean you should just read a disclaimer for the noobs that states carl and kirk play hella gay and this is not what most of the community does. just my two cents.

The master of johns has spoken.

would it be possible to make the rule where a banned stage would be legal if both players agreed to playing that stage? or something like that?

I remember at one SSBO, Kirkq and Iggy were playing Ganon dittos on Icicle Mountain.

 

[Mr H]

"They don't make good tourney stages", yet almost every tourney has them legal.

im sure every one wants to get killed by bomb blocks, fish and falling in water

 

[Lavos]

im sure every one wants to get killed by bomb blocks, fish and falling in water

Just like everyone wants to be killed by wind aided combos, the cloud, shy guys delaying attacks, battlefield's edge, and unfortunate platform positioning on FoD.

 

[NJzFinest]

Mute City = Cars, moving road, no edges, one small platform most of the "ride", odd changes in level, basically impossible to recover from below
Brinstar = Weird terrain, amazing for Peach's dsmash, lava, basically impossible to recover from below
Poke Floats = lol, should I bother?
Corneria = Fox/Falco's home

You have to attack bombs to get hit, you have play bad to get hit by a fish.
Falling in water <<< falling off a stage where it's impossible to recover from below, especially since you can still live. Also, staying put on JJ is much easier then staying put on Brinstar, Floats, and Mute City.

 

[Mr H]

Just like everyone wants to be killed by wind aided combos, the cloud, shy guys delaying attacks, battlefield's edge, and unfortunate platform positioning on FoD.

the wind on dreamland barely plays a role in a match and the cloud helps more then hurts. ....shy guys ... lol and battle field edges arnt really a major problem and same thing with FoD

it just seems like im adding fuel to the fire, i dont think u guys would be satisfied with any reasoning of y they should be banned

 

[NJzFinest]

it just seems like im adding fuel to the fire i dont think u guys would be satisfied with any reasoning of y they should be banned

Your reasoning is lacking, let alone your knowledge and skill.

 

[Mr H]

You're reasoning lacking, let alone your knowledge and skill.

just because im not as good as u are in smash doesnt make ur opinion out way mine and as far as knowledge goes i probly dont have as much knowledge of smash as u do but i have knowledge of the overall competitive video game scene but that still wont matter to u because u think my opinion doesn't matter

 

[NJzFinest]

just because im not as good as u are in smash doesnt make ur opinion out way mine and as far as knowledge goes i probly dont have as much knowledge of smash as u do but i have knowledge of the overall competitive video game scene but that still wont matter to u because u think my opinion doesn't matter

I wouldn't go as far as saying I think your opinion doesn't matter... rather, your logic and reasoning is simply bad. Would it be wrong to assume the reasoning behind that relates to your overall knowledge/skill? Especially when the majority of tournaments have them legal.

 

[name]

So hard not to get drawn into this argument just for the hell of it! But I knew if I got started I couldn't stop and it's not really my place.

I will say one thing. Banned or not, I don't think it'll change anything unless someone decides to act like a fool.

Also, this is probably more educational than any COM class offered here. That is all.

 

[kirkq]

Also, this is probably more educational than any COM class offered here. That is all.

I'm witnessing some pretty poor debating skills by both parties. I don't know if we're reading the same text.

 

[NJzFinest]

Kirkq, you're expecting way too much from an argument considering the topic at hand.

Then again, don't you think 100% of smashboards posts aren't worth reading / hate this site?

 

[Faithkeeper]

As for GG/JJ, I have no idea how dumb they can be, but I think it would be interesting to include them for a trial period to see if they are abused.

I concur, and perhaps this "vote" could take place after this trial period. This would allow people could make more educated votes after possibly being counterpicked with these stages and seeing how it affects the match.

If this is to be implemented, a topic that should be brought up is this: who gets the right to vote about this? anyone who has attended any ssbo? anyone who has attended ssbo with and without these counters? Only top players? Other requirements/no requirements?

Spoiler

*note* none of these suggested actions are officially supported/rejected by me, but from the looks of the discussion i feel they may be necessary to at least be considered.

 

[goosefactor]

Craig, I love ya man, but this is just one battle I recommend you stay out of.

 

[Mr H]

Craig, I love ya man, but this is just one battle I recommend you stay out of.

no johns

 

[mecatomato]

Craig, I love ya man, but this is just one battle I recommend you stay out of.

what have we done? lol

all what we did was throwing Jungle Japes joke at each other, and it has created a war.

 

['Fro]

Ah, please let this argument die. Kitsune is not completely unreasonable, and he's already stated that he'll change the ruleset if that proves to be what the community here wants. It's gonna come down to people's reactions to the bans overall, and that's all there is to it. We've got a good, growing scene. No need to contaminate it with aimless bickering. The situation will be resolved, and it will be to the liking of the community, so long as whatever opinion it is receives enough support.

 

[mecatomato]

As for GG/JJ, I have no idea how dumb they can be, but I think it would be interesting to include them for a trial period to see if they are abused.

For my personal taste, i would like to have dumb/weird stages as many as possible.

When jay knocked out Rainbow Cruise I was angry. =P

 

[iamthemicrowave]

Right about now NWA court is in full effect.
Judge Dre presiding in the case of NWA versus the police department.
Prosecuting attourneys are MC Ren Ice Cube and Eazy mutha****in E.
Order order order. Ice Cube take the mutha****in stand.
Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth
and nothin but the truth so help your black ***?

Why don't you tell everybody what the **** you gotta say?

**** tha police
Comin straight from the underground
Young ***** got it bad cuz I'm brown
And not the other color so police think
They have the authority to kill a minority

**** that ****, cuz I ain't tha one
For a punk mutha****a with a badge and a gun
To be beatin on, and throwin in jail
We could go toe to toe in the middle of a cell

****in with me cuz I'm a teenager
With a little bit of gold and a pager
Searchin my car, lookin for the product
Thinkin every ***** is sellin narcotics

You'd rather see me in the pen
Then me and Lorenzo rollin in the Benzo
Beat tha police outta shape
And when I'm finished, bring the yellow tape
To tape off the scene of the slaughter
Still can't swallow bread and water

I don't know if they ***s or what
Search a ***** down and grabbin his nuts
And on the other hand, without a gun they can't get none
But don't let it be a black and a white one
Cuz they slam ya down to the street top
Black police showin out for the white cop

Ice Cube will swarm
On any mutha****a in a blue uniform
Just cuz I'm from the CPT, punk police are afraid of me
A young ***** on a warpath
And when I'm finished, it's gonna be a bloodbath
Of cops, dyin in LA
Yo Dre, I got somethin to say

**** the police (4X)







M. C. Ren, will you please give your testimony to the jury about this ****ed up incident.>

**** tha police and Ren said it with authority
because the *****z on the street is a majority.
A gang, is with whoever I'm stepping
and the mother****in' weapon
is kept in a stash box, for the so-called law
wishin' Ren was a ***** that they never saw

Lights start flashin behind me
But they're scared of a ***** so they mace me to blind me
But that **** don't work, I just laugh
Because it gives em a hint not to step in my path

To the police I'm sayin **** you punk
Readin my rights and ****, it's all junk
Pullin out a silly club, so you stand
With a fake ***** badge and a gun in your hand

But take off the gun so you can see what's up
And we'll go at it punk, I'ma **** you up

Make ya think I'm a kick your ***
But drop your gat, and Ren's gonna blast
I'm sneaky as **** when it comes to crime
But I'm a smoke em now, and not next time

Smoke any mutha****a that sweats me
Or any assho that threatens me
I'm a sniper with a hell of a scope
Takin out a cop or two, they can't cope with me

The mutha****in villian that's mad
With potential to get bad as ****
So I'm a turn it around
Put in my clip, yo, and this is the sound
Ya, somethin like that, but it all depends on the size of the gat

Takin out a police would make my day
But a ***** like Ren don't give a **** to say

**** the police (4X)


Police, open now. We have a warrant for Eazy-E's arrest.
Get down and put your hands up where I can see em.
Just shut the **** up and get your mutha****in *** on the floor.
[huh?]>


and tell the jury how you feel abou this bull****.>

I'm tired of the mutha****in jackin
Sweatin my gang while I'm chillin in the shackin
Shining tha light in my face, and for what
Maybe it's because I kick so much butt

I kick ***, or maybe cuz I blast
On a stupid ***** ***** when I'm playin with the trigga
Of any Uzi or an AK
Cuz the police always got somethin stupid to say

They put up my picture with silence
Cuz my identity by itself causes violence
The E with the criminal behavior
Yeah, I'm a gansta, but still I got flavor

Without a gun and a badge, what do ya got?
A sucka in a uniform waitin to get shot,
By me, or another *****.
and with a gat it don't matter if he's smarter or bigger
[MC Ren: Sidle him, kid, he's from the old school, fool]

And as you all know, E's here to rule
Whenever I'm rollin, keep lookin in the mirror
And there's no cue, yo, so I can hear a
Dumb mutha****a with a gun

And if I'm rollin off the 8, he'll be tha one
That I take out, and then get away
And while I'm drivin off laughin
This is what I'll say

**** the police (4X)


The jury has found you guilty of bein a redneck,
whitebread, chicken**** mutha****a.
Wait, that's a lie. That's a god**** lie.
I want justice! I want justice!
**** you, you black mutha****a!>

**** the police (3X)

 

[BunBun]

George!



Huh, "George!" is too short to enter as a message alone...

 

[Mr H]

lol F.uck1ng george!

 

[mecatomato]

UUUUuuUuUuUoooohhh



YA! ch

 

[NJzFinest]

"You're a yyyaaaa chhh! Shut the **** up!"





*Ya ch = Zelda doing din's fire fyi*

 

[_kSo_]

BUUTTT... the fact that Alan didn't know that the stages were banned nor even the reason why is I bother bringing this up time and time again. He even asked if he can counterpick to GG at the last tournament on Saturday.

....
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but Alan is a TO... or at least, he says he is.

the amount of disrespect you have brought on the ssbo TOs is unnecessary
also i asked last tournament if i cold go to gg kuz i knew it was banned and i was making a joke.....

 

[NJzFinest]

The amount of disrespect? Like throwing controllers into a wall?

 

[_kSo_]

The amount of disrespect? Like throwing controllers into a wall?

that is neither here nor there; i suggest you refrain from bringing up irrelevant topics unless you want this argument to get out of hand

 

[NJzFinest]

The problem is that I don't even know what you're talking about.

Since when was questioning irregularities in tournament rules disrespectful?

Also, keep in mind I didn't just randomly bring up this issue.

 

[kirkq]

Carl is bad at debating.

This is why I usually don't read smashboards.

 

[NJzFinest]

www.4chan.org

 

[kirkq]

Here's what he said on AIM before he posted that.

TheLoveBelow781 (10:36:13 AM): 4chan.com
TheLoveBelow781 (10:36:15 AM): there you go
Kirkq1234 (10:36:32 AM): thats not a website
Kirkq1234 (10:36:36 AM): you are so bad at life.

 

[NJzFinest]

I think that stating the fact that I didn't even know the correct url to such a site is actually a compliment. Thank you.

 

[Zjiin]

What's with all the purduesians running around talking big at each other? Whoaaa boyyy!