Street Fighter 4!!! DISCUSS

[AfroQT]

Ummm no theres no point being made here at all.
The only point here being made is "My fighting game is better cuz of "******** Reason Here".

It doesnt matter how the game was tested, if --upon the release of the game--, it turns out to be decently balanced and fun, people will play it competitively.

You wanna talk about not seeing a point, its CLEAR you are somehow missing what i am saying...I dont know how its pretty clear but you are. So w/e im done....I do find it hilarious that people can somehow feel that their game is superior with no real reason behind it. Smash is a great game to play competitively, theres literally NO REASON that it can not be played competitively.

I agree with Hiroshi, i love the movement in smash.

 

[Life After Death]

brawl is.....shouldnt be competitive but its takes it still takes skills to be good at it.

 

[Dreadz18x]

ggs angrylobster

 

[Angrylobster]

ggs angrylobster

GGs yo. Workin on making Ken my new main. Your vega is sick as usual

 

[Dreadz18x]

GGs yo. Workin on making Ken my new main. Your vega is sick as usual

ya ur doing well with ken

and i feel my vega is gettin better overall

 

[spider_sense]

haha SF4 is weird to me, but I tried picking up C. Viper and someone told me she's for advanced players. =/

 

[XIF]

You wanna talk about not seeing a point, its CLEAR you are somehow missing what i am saying...I dont know how its pretty clear but you are.

epic moronic lines of 2009

first place.

 

[MarsFool!]

*Starts slow clap*

 

[AfroQT]

epic moronic lines of 2009

first place.

Its funny when you try to insult people, especially since pretty much 90% of the community (atleast in FL) laughs when they hear your name. If you want i can go into detail why.

 

[QDVS]

I <3 the movement options in melee!!!

It's the main reason I like it over brawl, and other fighters!!!

 

[XIF]

Its funny when you try to insult people, especially since pretty much 90% of the community (atleast in FL) laughs when they hear your name. If you want i can go into detail why.

The people I care about in FL enjoy my company.

the rest of you c0ck suckers can lick the sweat from my balls.

And it wasn't so much a personal insult as it was pointing out a really dumb statement. Just read it back to yourself my goodness.

You do not want to make this personal, amongst other things, i'd rather not derail this topic further than it has.

And yes the infraction is well worth it.

 

[Purple]

I want to join the E-Drama. Therefore i will.



In response to Afro_Thundah
I want to start off by saying that i see where you're coming. You see that Melee is much more exciting than SFIV, tenfold even. The reason for this is because you're used to the game play that smash brings to you. The movement and the enjoyment of it. But here's some facts.

We know for a fact that Sakurai meant for smash brothers to be in fact, a party game, a game to be played with four people, with items, on stages such as princess peach's castle or big blue. This is a fact, because (not verbatim) he's said this in interviews about the smash franchise.

We also know for a fact that different factors have to be taken out of the initial game play in order for the game to be competitive.

Here's a metaphor.

You start off with a Male Human, however, you want that Male Human to be a Female Human, You can take off the ***** (fun excess, items, unfair stages) and add some breasts and a ****** (rules, counterpicking, etc.) And you'll have a Female Human.

What's the point of the metaphor? Well think about it, you have in front of you, a female. Plain and simple. However, the root of that female, is still a male. Melee is a competitive game, dedicated smashers have made it as such and what's done is done. However, please know that infact, the root of the game is a party game. Period


As for GA_Peach, XIF, MarsFool, anyone who's pro Street Fighter. (mostly GA_peach)

It's hard for me to give a huge wall of text for your opinions, mainly because of the fact that i myself think that street fighter was meant for competition. But the reason for that is obviously it was made as a fighting game.

Remember a "fighting" game. When there's a fight, there's two people going against each other with one victor. It makes sense that there's tournaments in that sense. However here's the problem.

Not everything is as set straightforward as Street Fighter. Smash Brothers can be considered a party game just as much as it can be considered a fighting game with restrictions. So to bash smash brothers isn't exactly smart. There's two different play styles that you need to recognized, yes there's 10-0 in smash brothers, but that's part of the strategy.

Having to learn new characters and go into different play styles (camping, aggressive, etc.) in order to beat a specific match up, it's a lot different and to street fighter players it's alarming, but it's how the fighting game is played and should be respected.

In my opinion, if this is a street fighter 4 thread, it should stay street fighter 4, period. just like there's no melee vs brawl comments, there shouldn't be any game vs game comments. Although it's fun to see people bicker about brawl Marty i don't think that it helps you that you used to play the game competitively before all of this happened. It makes you look like the worse person. Just looking out for you bro.

@xif - let's try to love here, or at least ignore blissfully, don't get mad at afro_thundah for expressing his thoughts aggressively. It just makes you look worse. Once again just a lookout.

 

[XIF]

I want to join the E-Drama. Therefore i will.



In response to Afro_Thundah
I want to start off by saying that i see where you're coming. You see that Melee is much more exciting than SFIV, tenfold even. The reason for this is because you're used to the game play that smash brings to you. The movement and the enjoyment of it. But here's some facts.

We know for a fact that Sakurai meant for smash brothers to be in fact, a party game, a game to be played with four people, with items, on stages such as princess peach's castle or big blue. This is a fact, because (not verbatim) he's said this in interviews about the smash franchise.

We also know for a fact that different factors have to be taken out of the initial game play in order for the game to be competitive.

Here's a metaphor.

You start off with a Male Human, however, you want that Male Human to be a Female Human, You can take off the ***** (fun excess, items, unfair stages) and add some breasts and a ****** (rules, counterpicking, etc.) And you'll have a Female Human.

What's the point of the metaphor? Well think about it, you have in front of you, a female. Plain and simple. However, the root of that female, is still a male. Melee is a competitive game, dedicated smashers have made it as such and what's done is done. However, please know that infact, the root of the game is a party game. Period


As for GA_Peach, XIF, MarsFool, anyone who's pro Street Fighter. (mostly GA_peach)

It's hard for me to give a huge wall of text for your opinions, mainly because of the fact that i myself think that street fighter was meant for competition. But the reason for that is obviously it was made as a fighting game.

Remember a "fighting" game. When there's a fight, there's two people going against each other with one victor. It makes sense that there's tournaments in that sense. However here's the problem.

Not everything is as set straightforward as Street Fighter. Smash Brothers can be considered a party game just as much as it can be considered a fighting game with restrictions. So to bash smash brothers isn't exactly smart. There's two different play styles that you need to recognized, yes there's 10-0 in smash brothers, but that's part of the strategy.

Having to learn new characters and go into different play styles (camping, aggressive, etc.) in order to beat a specific match up, it's a lot different and to street fighter players it's alarming, but it's how the fighting game is played and should be respected.

In my opinion, if this is a street fighter 4 thread, it should stay street fighter 4, period. just like there's no melee vs brawl comments, there shouldn't be any game vs game comments. Although it's fun to see people bicker about brawl Marty i don't think that it helps you that you used to play the game competitively before all of this happened. It makes you look like the worse person. Just looking out for you bro.

@xif - let's try to love here, or at least ignore blissfully, don't get mad at afro_thundah for expressing his thoughts aggressively. It just makes you look worse. Once again just a lookout.

I really enjoy the metaphor.

The only point I wanted to make was that Afro Thundah is perhaps the one missing the point, if he truly cannot conceive of a reason why Marty is missing the point, then maybe that means he isnt?

The only thing I disagree is justifying a 10-0 matchup as strategy. Either way you cut it, 10-0 matchups are BS. I prefer Melee over most other fighters for many of the reasons afro and other have stated. The free form movement is an amazing mechanic, I think the defensive options in the form of DI especially, ledge teching, etc is something unique and engaging for Melee. I like the idea that even when you are getting hit, there's an entire player interaction and mindgame with DI. Both players are in control one way or the other (mostly <_<).

But I mean lets face it, the game is horribly unbalanced, and the hit detection is wonky at best, BS at worst. The shield mechanism is also unfair in my opinion. Seeing Ganondorf land a dair through Peach's full shield (which is second in size to character hitbox ratio only to link) is disheartening. The game IS NOT PERFECT.

STREET FIGHTER GAMES ARE NOT PERFECT EITHER. There are still character imbalances, some stupid strategies, and some absurdly good moves (EX Blanka electricity is broke status in SFIV, and can anyone say Super Art 2 Chun Li in third strike?).

The point is that SFIV was created and play tested at least with some, if not mostly competitive play in mind. So the game comes out with good to go tournament settings, and a fairly balanced character roster. The only reason this point is being made is to illustrate just how deep rooted Melee's flaws are, because it's much more than an oversight in programming, it's a choice on behalf of the development team.

In the end, both Melee and SFIV certainly have competitive scenes, and both have the gameplay to be played seriously at high levels, but melee has certain flaws other fighters do not have to deal with. Melee is still unique enough and engaging fighter for one to overlook these flaws.

It's not that complicated really.

 

[Vijin]

I wonder what Akuma has to say on the matter?

 

[nevershootme]

I wonder what Akuma has to say on the matter?

would say a good old raging demon to the face

 

[AfroQT]

I want to join the E-Drama. Therefore i will.



In response to Afro_Thundah
I want to start off by saying that i see where you're coming. You see that Melee is much more exciting than SFIV, tenfold even. The reason for this is because you're used to the game play that smash brings to you. The movement and the enjoyment of it. But here's some facts.

We know for a fact that Sakurai meant for smash brothers to be in fact, a party game, a game to be played with four people, with items, on stages such as princess peach's castle or big blue. This is a fact, because (not verbatim) he's said this in interviews about the smash franchise.

We also know for a fact that different factors have to be taken out of the initial game play in order for the game to be competitive.

Here's a metaphor.

You start off with a Male Human, however, you want that Male Human to be a Female Human, You can take off the ***** (fun excess, items, unfair stages) and add some breasts and a ****** (rules, counterpicking, etc.) And you'll have a Female Human.

What's the point of the metaphor? Well think about it, you have in front of you, a female. Plain and simple. However, the root of that female, is still a male. Melee is a competitive game, dedicated smashers have made it as such and what's done is done. However, please know that infact, the root of the game is a party game. Period


As for GA_Peach, XIF, MarsFool, anyone who's pro Street Fighter. (mostly GA_peach)

It's hard for me to give a huge wall of text for your opinions, mainly because of the fact that i myself think that street fighter was meant for competition. But the reason for that is obviously it was made as a fighting game.

Remember a "fighting" game. When there's a fight, there's two people going against each other with one victor. It makes sense that there's tournaments in that sense. However here's the problem.

Not everything is as set straightforward as Street Fighter. Smash Brothers can be considered a party game just as much as it can be considered a fighting game with restrictions. So to bash smash brothers isn't exactly smart. There's two different play styles that you need to recognized, yes there's 10-0 in smash brothers, but that's part of the strategy.

Having to learn new characters and go into different play styles (camping, aggressive, etc.) in order to beat a specific match up, it's a lot different and to street fighter players it's alarming, but it's how the fighting game is played and should be respected.

In my opinion, if this is a street fighter 4 thread, it should stay street fighter 4, period. just like there's no melee vs brawl comments, there shouldn't be any game vs game comments. Although it's fun to see people bicker about brawl Marty i don't think that it helps you that you used to play the game competitively before all of this happened. It makes you look like the worse person. Just looking out for you bro.

@xif - let's try to love here, or at least ignore blissfully, don't get mad at afro_thundah for expressing his thoughts aggressively. It just makes you look worse. Once again just a lookout.

Mehhhhhhhhh
IM SORRY XIF I LOVE YOU

 

[Angrylobster]

http://www.igotnextmovie.com/ get hype

 

[Dogysamich]

http://www.igotnextmovie.com/ get hype

YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUAH!

That **** was hilarious. Anytime Jwong landed an ultra, YUAH!!!

That's going to be a pretty ballin video.

I love how anytime there's a video like that, and I'm there, I can always hear myself. XD

 

[GA Peach]

I want to join the E-Drama. Therefore i will.



In response to Afro_Thundah
I want to start off by saying that i see where you're coming. You see that Melee is much more exciting than SFIV, tenfold even. The reason for this is because you're used to the game play that smash brings to you. The movement and the enjoyment of it. But here's some facts.

We know for a fact that Sakurai meant for smash brothers to be in fact, a party game, a game to be played with four people, with items, on stages such as princess peach's castle or big blue. This is a fact, because (not verbatim) he's said this in interviews about the smash franchise.

We also know for a fact that different factors have to be taken out of the initial game play in order for the game to be competitive.

Here's a metaphor.

You start off with a Male Human, however, you want that Male Human to be a Female Human, You can take off the ***** (fun excess, items, unfair stages) and add some breasts and a ****** (rules, counterpicking, etc.) And you'll have a Female Human.

What's the point of the metaphor? Well think about it, you have in front of you, a female. Plain and simple. However, the root of that female, is still a male. Melee is a competitive game, dedicated smashers have made it as such and what's done is done. However, please know that infact, the root of the game is a party game. Period


As for GA_Peach, XIF, MarsFool, anyone who's pro Street Fighter. (mostly GA_peach)

It's hard for me to give a huge wall of text for your opinions, mainly because of the fact that i myself think that street fighter was meant for competition. But the reason for that is obviously it was made as a fighting game.

Remember a "fighting" game. When there's a fight, there's two people going against each other with one victor. It makes sense that there's tournaments in that sense. However here's the problem.

Not everything is as set straightforward as Street Fighter. Smash Brothers can be considered a party game just as much as it can be considered a fighting game with restrictions. So to bash smash brothers isn't exactly smart. There's two different play styles that you need to recognized, yes there's 10-0 in smash brothers, but that's part of the strategy.

Having to learn new characters and go into different play styles (camping, aggressive, etc.) in order to beat a specific match up, it's a lot different and to street fighter players it's alarming, but it's how the fighting game is played and should be respected.

In my opinion, if this is a street fighter 4 thread, it should stay street fighter 4, period. just like there's no melee vs brawl comments, there shouldn't be any game vs game comments. Although it's fun to see people bicker about brawl Marty i don't think that it helps you that you used to play the game competitively before all of this happened. It makes you look like the worse person. Just looking out for you bro.

@xif - let's try to love here, or at least ignore blissfully, don't get mad at afro_thundah for expressing his thoughts aggressively. It just makes you look worse. Once again just a lookout.

...how are 10-0 matchups part of a game's strategy? your entire thought process is flawed if you are trying to justify unwinnable matchups in a game. the game should be about out-thinking the player more so than the character. In Melee, this happens, and i will agree to that. Brawl is a better example of this not happening, but it occurs more often than it should in both games.

also, how does being part of a community before hand make my opinion about the game LESS VALID? the fact that I PLAYED Brawl and did well in the game before would imply that i would know MORE about the game.

...why did you even post this? it contributed virtually nothing to the discussion.

Addressing XIF's post - exactly. people are missing the point because they only play Smash and no other game in a competitive manner. as i said before, i enjoy Smash. not as much on the competitive scene as i once did, but i still play casually. but, it is NOT difficult to take a step back from the games you like and look at things objectively. again, i DO NOT see what is so hard about that. NO ONE is saying SF is perfect, least of all me. 3S Chun was insanely broken. HOWEVER, she still had a disadvantageous match-up in Yun, as she has no anti-air to stop Dive Kick. And, even though Ken has a considerable disadvantage against Chun, he still has a very good shot at victory. which leads me to touch on another point that Nes n00b touched on earlier; putting advanced techniques on a throne. advanced techs can be good, but in 3S, parrying ended up making a lot of issues. it made jump-ins almost 100% free, which subtracted from a lot of SF mindgames. also, not everyone had good options off of parrying, either. it made the already strong characters even stronger, like Ken or Chun, and made other characters, like Sean or Twelve, stay the same, as they had no great options from parry state. the same could be said about Smash. the characters that were already powerful were made godlike by advanced techs. other characters were made slightly better or just didn't improve at all. the gaps in character strength were increased in that respect. SFIV has broken stuff, as well. as XIF said, Blanka is WAYYY good now, as is Sagat, Ryu, Seth, and Boxer. even Chun, which is the character i play. all of them have broken *** ****. however, the matchups are close enough to where they are extremely beatable. just this past saturday, we had a GEN player get 4th place. that would be equivalent to Roy or Ness getting 4th at a tournament, which, being honest here, really would not happen. and to address ST, the ONLY character that is considered to not have a very good chance at winning is Cammy. but even then, she can **** Dhalsim, who is one of the best, if not the best, overall character in that game. Smash simply does not have the matchup spread of most SF games, simple as that, and that is why i don't enjoy it as much. not as many varied characters make it to top 8 in Smash, and the same characters win a great majority of the time.

and also, since Afro and Chops can say that they think Smash is a greatly balanced game, as XIF said, give me some evidence. i really want to know why you think it is balanced. that would add more to the discussion than simply just telling me it is balanced. i have given legitimate reasons why Smash is not well-suited for 1v1 competition and why it is unbalanced. it has been refuted with nothing except, "Smash is balanced. I like playing it. You're dumb." i appreciate Doodah's post about Jigglypuff winning, because it actually goes towards what we are talking about in here, even though it's supposed to be an SF thread, lol. if anything, i'd like to move this to another thread and continue SFIV discussion in here.

 

[Purple]

.snip.

When i said 10-0 was a sort of strategy. If you main a character who has a horrible disadvantage against another. You would have to have a secondary that can be used that has a more favorable matchup.

When you had problems in smash against a certain character, like metaknight for easiest example. You had the mentality that there's a play style in which i can beat this metaknight with. It's not changing strategy as it is changing characters. Which you didn't understand. It's a completely different type of fighting game, and should be played as such.

My original reason for why i came into this topic was to get hateful arguements out of the topic is all. I just added my two cents on top of it.

@afro - yaaay love
@xif - i'm not saying smash isn't busted in way, because it is. I wholefully understand where you're coming from.

 

[nevershootme]

http://www.igotnextmovie.com/ get hype

too bad it's rare to find good documentaries on gaming communities, the true life episode was kinda whack, but not full blown on the details. even The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters was entertaining yet interesting view on how high scores matter in the past and how it determines the skill of players at the time and how u can link it to today's gaming (a la gradius, do don pachi)

but yea... i think i should do a documentary on modern day smash

 

[ptown]

when i think sf4, i see a knife fight. no one wants to get stabbed.
a few nicks and cuts sting a little. deep stab wounds could be fatal.

when i think smash, i see chaos management, zany fun-fun-ness, drunken bar-room fights, and tony hawk: pro skater.

 

[Life After Death]

this goes far beyond match ups and balances its alot of psycology. but no theres no such thing as 10-0 match ups in melee if thats true then theres characters in melee that have 0 attacks they just stand there like statue wat kind of logic is that lol. at least theres 9-1 match ups but thats never been proven its just a theory. melee is not balanced read u idiots. melee is decently balanced meaning around half or more than half of the characters in the game can win toruneys. but thats just my opinion lol. i dont really wanna go in to details cuz it involves alot of psycology while marty and xif relies on useless statistics and technical points. its useless to argue with unexp players or dumb players/people. not calling anyone here dumb its just an example i was making dont get it twisted.

so im prolly gonna play sf4 eventually. and not judging the game till im god at it cuz its naive and foolish to judge a game when u never got goood at it. or if your inui lol

 

[Vijin]

Even if a game is unbalanced, that doesn't make it unplayable. MVC2 is still HUGE, despite being a pretty broken game. Infinites up the a$$, and only like a quarter of the characters are really playable. Mid-tier might as well be low tier in MVC2; that's how unbalanced the characters are. But people still play it. Even if melee isn't very balanced, you've still got your options as far as characters (and stages) go. I think Street Fighter has always been a pretty balanced game, as in even the lowest tier character can compete (I'm referring to turbo) The gap isn't as big as it is in say, MVC2 or Melee. But really, SF2 and Melee are just two totally different games. I'm not sure how this whole argument started in the first place.

 

[Life After Death]

2 different games one is more balanced than the other bto hare good as *** for the competitive scene even though melee was accidentally a good competitive game. cept for brawl its a bad game lol

 

[GA Peach]

wow...
@Chops - to clarify, 10-0 matchup means that if both players have equal skill, equal knowledge of the matchup, and perform the best that the character can, the character with the 0 rating more than likely will lose. it happens. in ST, Gouki's worst matchup was a 9-1 in his favor. he had matchups that could be considered 10-0, though. in the end, Gouki was banned. OBVIOUSLY, using common sense, there are no characters that have 0 attacks and just sit there... :rollseyes: if everything is so psychologically bassed, and has NOTHING to do with the way the characters were programmed, and you are enlightened to this, then prove it to me. if that's the case, for example, when a great Ice Climbers player has to play against Peach, they usually switch, including the best. That's not even considered a 10-0, yet, if it were just psychologically based, then they should be able to overcome. wrong. once again, if BOTH players are of equal skill and knowledge, the huge advantage would go to Peach, hands down. also, i highly believe you are wrong about 50% or more of the characters are able to win major tournaments. That hasn't even been CLOSE to being proven. also, since when have past major tournament results ever been considered "useless" statistics? i'm lost on that one... and finally, i don't understand your view on not being able to have an opinion on something unless you are the best at it. i'm not new to Melee, man. Mike G also agrees with me in saying that what i am saying has truth to it. you are blindly defending at this point, because according to your logic, you shouldn't have an opinion on Melee either. i don't see your name or mine at the top of the Melee charts. how would you know if it's balanced or not? you aren't the best player at it.

@Jamaal - ...that's the ENTIRE point! Smash is one of VERY few games where you would not be able to just work around your bad matchup, but you would have to change characters. Again, Brawl is much more guilty of this than Melee, but it exists in Melee, as well. And, you're even MORE mis-informed than i first realized for thinking that i DIDN'T understand that i needed to change characters to beat certain matchups. that is the ENTIRE reason that i didn't like it. outside of a very select few characters, if you had a bad matchup, you were FORCED to switch to have a chance of winning. also, when addressing "hateful" comments, there was no need to address me, then. i haven't been hateful towards any one in here. i have been just expressing my points about why i think SFIV was more suited for competitive play. I mean, even the Marvel community admits their game is horribly unbalanced. They have a strong community, but they know that roughly only 25% of the cast is truly tournament viable at this point. SWF is the only place I have been where comparison discussions are considered "hateful." It's not "hateful" to have a discussion about something. Not every one HAS to agree on everything, contrary to what you may believe, Jamaal...

 

[Purple]

i need to stop :/

 

[Purple]

2 different games one is more balanced than the other bto hare good as *** for the competitive scene even though melee was accidentally a good competitive game. cept for brawl its a bad game lol

That's pretty ironic. No offense to it at all by the way. But you're arguing to how melee is competitive in the eyes of a street fighter player (considering they're two completely different games). And then you're pretty much starting an arguement to where someone will have to tell you how brawl is competitive to the eyes of a melee player (which is also considering they're two completely different games.)

@Marty - i actually wasn't saying you were giving hateful comments, I was just putting you in the group that's pro street fighter.

The hateful comments i was going for was Xif's comment to calling some Florida smashers **** suckers, and Afro's comment to why people in Florida "laugh when they hear Xif's name" Neither comment was necessary.

Understood however that not everyone will agree on the topic sadly . So there really is nothing else i can say to counter.

 

[GA Peach]

well, the discussion is that I think that Smash is very unbalanced, and that only a very small number of characters can win major tournaments. this is why i stopped playing in tournaments. it takes away from my enjoyment of the game. Afro and Chops are on the side that Smash is actually decently balanced and that, according to Chops, 50% of the cast or more can win. to explain my point, i went into how Smash was developed and the style of the game. they told me i was wrong, but haven't really given solid proof as to why i am wrong. if they prove me wrong, i will admit i am wrong, but so far, i have given many valid reasons for my thoughts on the matter. they just simply say, "No, you're wrong." that kind of sums this up. the games are different, but they can still be compared genre-wise.

at least a majority of us don't like Brawl competitively, lol. Chops and I seem to agree on that, anyway.

 

[Life After Death]

nah i just dont like brawl enough to defend it. I did say I didnt feel like explaining I'll stick to my opinion. this goes too deep for me to try to explain on the boards and yes it has to do with alot of psycology but its not 100% psycology. i only usually try an intellectual arguments with my apprentices never on the boards. too much typing lol

some people cant see the truth come people can. ur born with the skills to naturally see it but w/e.

 

[AfroQT]

Theres a good amount of characters that can win tournaments, it doesnt help that everyone ONLY plays the top tiers tho. At this point, its alot harder for Mid-High tier chars to beat the top tiers because the top tiers have had their metagame advanced significantly more then characters like Mario. Very few people are interested in putting alot of time into advancing characters anymore, pretty much no one has the patience. They just wanna be good NOW essentially rofl. You cant use past tournament statistics because you essentially you dont know which characters are CAPABLE of winning tournaments you only know which ones HAVE won tournaments and are using that to say that those characters are the ones that can ONLY win tournaments which is horrible logic tbh. Smash is kinda like a popularity contest, especially nowadays. Theres alot more combo videos for Fox/Falco/Shiek/Marth/CF then any other character. New players (and i just dont mean recent new players, i mean for the past few years) are easily inspired by things like that and want to main those characters. They dont want to put time into characters like Mario or Doc because they havent been inspired to play that character AND dont want to put in the EXTRA TIME to develop that character as well. Thats the reason you see ALOT of foxes/falco's/marths now adays in tournaments. Its not that they are the only characters that can win, its that theres so much data and strategies and info on those characters and so little on every other that it almost seems like you HAVE to use them. But in reality you dont, ALOT of characters have the POTENTIAL to go even with them but no one wants to put in the work. A great example is Mario. Mario could be so much better if only more people played Mario and tried to advance Mario. Instead people just assume hes Mid Tier. I could go a ****load more into detail if you want.

I think alot of chars can win tournaments, not all of them, but alot. 3S is considered decently balanced and you generally only see Yun, Chun and Ken winning tournaments.

Ice Climbers can beat Peach, the reason they switch is because its hard and wish to make the matchup easier.. The same thing can happen in any game INCLUDING GUILTY GEAR. Just because an IC's main switches characters doesnt mean that THE GAME IS SUPER UNBALANCED HE ISNT GOING HIS MAIN. The matchup is hard i'll agree, but its not unwinnable.

Smash is in a movement style where alot of matchups can be gotten around by a change in playstyle (some of those playstyles being really fvckin gay). Look at brawl, you can see a Sonic player placing pretty high every now and then (at the last Hobo in texas im pretty sure a Sonic got 3rd? Maybe 4th). Sonic is a horrible character, but the way brawl is played (particularly the movement) Sonic can get around his HUGE AMOUNT of 6/4 and 7/3 matchups. Sonic is considered pretty low tier as well. Most good sonic players have a very unique playstyle (some of which are really gay). Alot more characters could win if people played with different playstyle's and mindsets, rather then just rushing down to victory. Sonic for example plays extremely campy/evasive, and doesnt go out of his way to even do damage, he just trys to stay safe and punish what is easily punishable.

Comparing Smash to SF4 CURRENTLY is a joke. SF4 has been out for maybe a year (japan) and you constantly see the tier list changing because the metagame is advancing at such a high rate right now due to the game just coming out. Who knows where the game will be in a year or so, if it will be more balanced or more unbalanced then melee or brawl.

Smash may not of been developed or tested for 1 on 1, but just because it wasnt designed to be competitive doesnt mean it cant be played competitively. Like chops said, they ACCIDENTLY made a decent fighting game. Tho it wasnt intended to be as balanced as it is, it still is pretty decently balanced (or atleast not anymore unbalanced then 3S). If you compare it to guilty gear, then yeah its not NEARLY as balanced as Guilty Gear....But that doesnt mean its unbalanced lol.

 

[Purple]

It's hard to win an arguement with just opinion and no facts. But i'll let you guys do that.

How do you beat sagat with balrog? :[

 

[Mike G]

It's hard to win an arguement with just opinion and no facts. But i'll let you guys do that.

How do you beat sagat with balrog? :[

Pick sagat. it's easier


This works great in smash too LOL

 

[GA Peach]

It's hard to win an arguement with just opinion and no facts. But i'll let you guys do that.

How do you beat sagat with balrog? :[

Balrog can really mess up Sagat up close, and he has several ways of getting in. EX Dash Punch if you expect the fireball, but you have to be careful. If Sagat expects that, he can Tiger Knee, which breaks focus. As usual with Sagat, jump in on him only in very limited situations, as he can punish heavily for jumping. Focus dashing is Balrog's main tool in this match, and once in mid-range, he can start to work his magic. Balrog has a very fast sweep and jab. C.JP will beat almost anything save an uppercut. Try and bait the uppercut, then punish Sagat heavily. Once you bait and land a jab, you can combo into headbutt, then into super or ultra, depending on which one you have/need. That's my advice, anyway...

 

[GA Peach]

@Afro - ok, i do see where you are coming from. it is quite possible that with more time and players, some of the lower tiers could quite possibly come up in the ranks. However, that is also what the last 8 years of game development went towards. The Sonic example is an especially good one. Hopefully, it is that Sonic has potential to compete, and not that people just don't know how to play against him fully yet. I don't think the comparisons are a joke. After all, Brawl has only been out for slightly over a year. When comparing franchises and games of similar style, SF is considerably longer established, not to mention that, for the most part, the styles of the SF games are more similar to each other than the Smash franchise, which makes finding what does/does not work considerably easier.

 

[AfroQT]

@Afro - ok, i do see where you are coming from. it is quite possible that with more time and players, some of the lower tiers could quite possibly come up in the ranks. However, that is also what the last 8 years of game development went towards. The Sonic example is an especially good one. Hopefully, it is that Sonic has potential to compete, and not that people just don't know how to play against him fully yet. I don't think the comparisons are a joke. After all, Brawl has only been out for slightly over a year. When comparing franchises and games of similar style, SF is considerably longer established, not to mention that, for the most part, the styles of the SF games are more similar to each other than the Smash franchise, which makes finding what does/does not work considerably easier.

Ah yess it seems we have come to a agreement. I think that Sonic will remain decent and probably improve, because the people who play him (imo) are decent players/smart players. As people adapt to Sonic they will invent new ways to play him and learn how to use his old tricks better to win.

Sagat has a scar on his chest thats why he beats balrog.

 

[SleepyK]

nah i just dont like brawl enough to defend it. I did say I didnt feel like explaining I'll stick to my opinion. this goes too deep for me to try to explain on the boards and yes it has to do with alot of psycology but its not 100% psycology. i only usually try an intellectual arguments with my apprentices never on the boards. too much typing lol

some people cant see the truth come people can. ur born with the skills to naturally see it but w/e.

XIF on sleepy's account

First and foremost let me get this out of the way:

You are not the authority on what the truth is or isnt. Please don't be so arrogant chops.

As for afro's post,this is precisely my frustration with the smash community. You can't just say how theoretically so and so can win tournament. I think you insult the intelligent players who have spent years practicing with lower tiered characters and simply CAN. NOT. WIN. Azen, who was probably the best overall player for a long time and the best low tier player as well always went to marth when the **** hit the fan. Lets be honest here: Fox, Falco, Marth, and Sheik are the only characters to win big tournaments with any consistency. A little bit of jiggs later on but I mean really you cannot argue that many other characters have won with any consistency. The fact of the matter is that there is no reason to believe over half the cast has a chance of winning. You can't just say "I think so in theory" without any support. Fighting games aren't immune to that kind of logic.

 

[Purple]

let's talk about street fighter four guys :]

 

[GDX]

yea. you guys shouldnt be arguing over the melee and brawl competitive whatnot in here. what you should be talking about is whos idea was it to give Sagat a ****ing overhead

 

[Life After Death]

XIF on sleepy's account

First and foremost let me get this out of the way:

You are not the authority on what the truth is or isnt. Please don't be so arrogant chops.

As for afro's post,this is precisely my frustration with the smash community. You can't just say how theoretically so and so can win tournament. I think you insult the intelligent players who have spent years practicing with lower tiered characters and simply CAN. NOT. WIN. Azen, who was probably the best overall player for a long time and the best low tier player as well always went to marth when the **** hit the fan. Lets be honest here: Fox, Falco, Marth, and Sheik are the only characters to win big tournaments with any consistency. A little bit of jiggs later on but I mean really you cannot argue that many other characters have won with any consistency. The fact of the matter is that there is no reason to believe over half the cast has a chance of winning. You can't just say "I think so in theory" without any support. Fighting games aren't immune to that kind of logic.

i said it was an opinion fool. *** outta here cabron puto maricon. now back to some sf4 ****. afro is too smart listen to his wisdoms