Stage Information Database and Q&A

[WindMajor]

Draver I really want you to know that I think your avatar is super cool.

 

[-LzR-]

That's exactly what the title is sarcastic about. I'm really liberal with stages with FO being my favourite like I said in the video.

I'm exactly the same. Also with FO being my favorite as well. It's a shame others don't share our opinion. Great minds think alike.

 

[infiniteV115]

Falling through Delfino is old news

 

[Loota]

Draver I really want you to know that I think your avatar is super cool.

Finally someone said something about it, thank youuu! It's obviously someone else's piece of art, I feel like I should give credit where credit is due.

Falling through Delfino is old news

Ya I know the usual spots you can fall through but the roof phase is another of those I've never heard of.

 

[ぱみゅ]

yay! Stages now will be even more ignored than before!

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I was thinking the opposite. Perhaps a post or two will slip into the thread now.

 

[ぱみゅ]

In that case, allow me to post a bit more here with chips of random facts:
-You can hold L+R+A+Start to exit a match or replay, no need to press them one by one.
-According to this chart, Wario's Fart is pretty unique. Its strongest hitbox starts when it has been charging for 55 seconds, exponentially increasing its damage, and thus its knockback, until 110 seconds of charge, changing its hitbox to one that deals much more damage, but less knockback. So, its optimal knockback hit would be at 109.98 seconds of charge.
-Horses can't vomit.

 

[Life]

You can LRAStart without holding the buttons? o_0

 

[ぱみゅ]

I meant you can start holding them all before entering the pause, keep them held, and you would exit. Poor grammar from my part, my bad.

 

[Tesh]

Watching Salem's opening plays makes me think 1 stock wouldn't even be remotely fair to the rest of the cast.

 

[Life]

Nah, then people would just learn to deal with suit pieces faster because they'd be present more often.

 

[Tesh]

I don't think its that simple. Things like bananas, grenades, tires and suit pieces allow ALOT of freedom to mix things up safely and trap people. Its tough to get past a wall of bouncing suit pieces. If you hit them to remove the hitbox, ZSS is free to hit you, I'm also pretty sure u can't catch them all.

 

[ぱみゅ]

We would actually have to implement scrubby rules that forces ZSSs to throw her pieces away
Nah, any sart player can deal with them, just like they can handle virtually every other item.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It really annoys me that the go-to strategy against zero suit Samus mains is to throw away the pieces because the zss will know how to use them better than you

I mean how lazy is that

 

[ぱみゅ]

People learned to use bananas, I don't see what's much different with suit pieces.

 

[Tesh]

It really annoys me that the go-to strategy against zero suit Samus mains is to throw away the pieces because the zss will know how to use them better than you

I mean how lazy is that

its a very important option for her, reducing her options is key, especially if you will have more with the pieces gone. ZSS can still be pretty annoying while holding a suit piece, she can still space all day with side b and lasers, she can bounce them and glide toss around very neatly. Now imagine you are playing Snake and holding a suit piece limits your tilt spacing, forces you not to use nades as much as you want.

Items really fit more with a special/aerial based gameplay. Also its just plain smart to get rid of something that gives the other player an advantage. Its not lazy, just smart. Its just like not approaching on ps1, even though you could if you really thought hard on it.

 

[ぱみゅ]

1. ZSS can only glidetoss forward, but not backwards. That's an important bit of info.

2. Camp the ZSS who is already camping you with her pieces, play reactionary to her Lasers/PlasmaWhip/item toss (her options are limited too when grabbing a piece).

3. Yes, you are right, throwing them away is not a bad option if your character doesn't have a strong item play, but there are many characters that can compete with her when both are holding a piece.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I had meta knight in mind when I made that post

 

[Raziek]

Got to play on a ton of janky stages with Twinkie.

Shout outs to Norfair, Pipes, Green Greens, Distant Planet, Skyworld, Wario Ware, PTAD and all the fun times within.

No deaths to cars, lava, Bulborbs or Wario Ware!

Twinkie died to a GG bomb though.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ZSS can glide toss backwards by using a reverse froll. It adds a few frames but it is effectively the same thing and the distance is ridiculous. Salem even did it a few times at APEX.

 

[ぱみゅ]

But then you can pressure her if she holds a piece, and then shields having her back towards you. At that spot can either abuse her blindspot (back and above her) or throw her a projectyle (for example, another suit piece) without being at a real risky position.

DDD can't do any of them :C

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

what? if her back is facing you and she's holding a suit piece, she can forward glide toss, but throw the suit piece backwards OOS. or am i not understanding you?

If I'm holding a suit piece and someone hits my shield there are very few situations in which I'm afraid.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

^
ZSS is very threatening with a suit piece in hand

that is not justification to throw them all away, however.

 

[ぱみゅ]

what? if her back is facing you and she's holding a suit piece, she can forward glide toss, but throw the suit piece backwards OOS. or am i not understanding you?

My point is that if she glidetoss forward and throw the suit piece backwards, she threw if from firther, and it's more time to react.

Not a wonderful, life-threatening pressure option, but still pressure.

 

[Tesh]

^
ZSS is very threatening with a suit piece in hand

that is not justification to throw them all away, however.

i dont throw them away, but it did take me a while to figure out how to best use them with my own characters. sonic i just spindash while holding it and i can still z drop it during spindash.

MK, you can throw it up and use it to cover the endlag of tornado by retreating behind it.

But, if I had little ZSS experience and I was in a tournament with hundreds or thousands on the line, I wouldn't use that time to try to figure out how I can outsmart someone with items they use every single game.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Mikeneko tried that, and he even got advantage on game 5

 

[teluoborg]

My point is that if she glidetoss forward and throw the suit piece backwards, she threw if from firther, and it's more time to react.

Not a wonderful, life-threatening pressure option, but still pressure.

This amount of distance doesn't really matter because of how stupidly fast armor pieces fly.

But, if she's glide tossing away she can't Dtoss the item, thus risks to lose it if you ever get to dodge it.

 

[ぱみゅ]

So, about one month ago (december 22-23) I hosted a not very serious Tournament to be played with local people.
Nobody attended, and being the third time in a row that happened and the fifth or sixth during the year, I wrote a long facebook status saying that I would never ever look for venues and consoles again, but I could help with organizing a something (as in, doing the bracket, call players to play, get Statios ready, etc) if somebody else would be interested in doing that for me.

About 2 weeks ago, someone aproached to me saying "Hey, we'll host a tournament in Queretaro this summer, we already have TOs for 64 and Melee, and if you want to be our Brawl TO, we'll confirm it and add Brawl to the highlighted games".
Shocked, I accepted because they would do exactly what I wanted them to do, leaving me to organize and do what like to do.

It was perfect... Or at least, it would have been...


Now, apparently people are fighting the tournament location (because there can only be one big tournament), and apparently I won't be TO'ing anything at all...


tl;dr No community allows me to grow as TO lol

 

[WindMajor]

no love for kyo :'(

 

[Tesh]

so why is frigate still allowed these days? its got an intense random factor and a major stalling issue that bypasses LGL and scroooging rules.

 

[WindMajor]

it does????

 

[Tesh]

The ratio of layout one to layout 2 is completely random, even though there are some rules to when it can switch. This makes it FAR more random than stages like Delfino or Stadium, which will over time have a very regular ratio between each transformation every match. This means for characters like Olimar or MK, it can randomly be a godsend or a nightmare.

Layout 2 has a pretty major stalling issue that comes from the same place as the 2nd random issue. The side platforms are TOO PRESENT. They can randomly save and rarely gimp recoveries and GREATLY aid stalling. This stage should require a special LGL for flying characters. Its very possible for many character to fly around off stage and wait for the platform to come back. Its basically walkoff camping with alot of jumping involved. Anyone who can max out flight time above 10ish seconds is basically guaranteed to be able to land on the same platform again.

 

[WindMajor]

I don't think the stalling capabilities is any more offensive in Frigate than in Smashville. I also don't think that the randomness between both layouts is that big of a deal, which is why Frigate is never banned.

If I were to ban Frigate, it would be because the stage is ugly, that's it.

 

[-LzR-]

Whenever someone picks Frigate he doesn't pick one of the transformations. If one of them sucks for you then don't be a moron and pick the stage. Are you saying the worse player will win if the stage happens to be on the other transformation for the majority of the time? If not there is no problem.

 

[Tesh]

I don't think the stalling capabilities is any more offensive in Frigate than in Smashville. I also don't think that the randomness between both layouts is that big of a deal, which is why Frigate is never banned.

If I were to ban Frigate, it would be because the stage is ugly, that's it.

Its entirely possible to spend 90% of a match on one transformation or 50%.

As for the stalling issue, SV doesn't really allow you to stall on one side, so commonly used scrooging rules cover following the platform. On Frigate you can fly around off stage for MINUTES at a time without going completely under the stage or using a ledge grab. If randomness alone isnt enough, this needs an extra rule probably. You can also stall below stage height where even less characters can shoot(back) at you...

Whenever someone picks Frigate he doesn't pick one of the transformations. If one of them sucks for you then don't be a moron and pick the stage. Are you saying the worse player will win if the stage happens to be on the other transformation for the majority of the time? If not there is no problem.

That same logic could apply to anything random, like "whenever someone pick pictochat/warioware , he is picking all the random nonsense" . You shouldn't be allowed to pick this random nonsense in the first place.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I know you're just messing with us Tesh, but wtf?

Frigate's randomness is so long-termed that can't realistically be considered game-changing. It changes your strategy, but it still requires a lot of skill to get the win.

And why would anyone camp on the moving platforms if any character with a decent aerial can gimp them (platforms don't respawn that fast).

 

[-LzR-]

That same logic could apply to anything random, like "whenever someone pick pictochat/warioware , he is picking all the random nonsense" . You shouldn't be allowed to pick this random nonsense in the first place.

Because the stage just changing layout is totally comparable to frame 1 walls and random sudden spikes that can kill you.

 

[Tesh]

I know you're just messing with us Tesh, but wtf?

Frigate's randomness is so long-termed that can't realistically be considered game-changing. It changes your strategy, but it still requires a lot of skill to get the win.

And why would anyone camp on the moving platforms if any character with a decent aerial can gimp them (platforms don't respawn that fast).

Just like scrooging or sharking, its not ideal against every character. Alot of characters can challenge MK's smashville scrooging. Camping the platforms on frigate is something you would probably do against ICs, Olimar, Falco . They respawn every 7-9 secondly pretty reliably. I can basically just fly around at the edge of the visible playing field where alot of characters can't safely reach me (or I can pivot grab them/spike them/go over them and edgehog etc.)

 

[Tesh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci_lNFflCdg&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiwfCs8f_Qw&feature=youtu.be

whats to stop me from doing this to those characters?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Actually, maybe Link can deal with it.
Anyway, I understand your point and give it to you. Frigate is probably not a stage where every character can perform well. But then again, Final Destination, Yoshi's Island, maybe Castle Siege and maybe Delfino are also bad for certain characters and/or styles.