Stage Information Database and Q&A

[-LzR-]

Am I the only one who still is the same? I still want MK banned and to bring more stages to this game. Not that I want all kinds of ******** stages but either RC or Brinstar definitely should be legal, I'd say RC instead of Brinstar. Such a shame seeing people actually don't hate the Japanese ruleset. I need stage variation to keep myself motivated and everyone just plays Smashville every ****ing match. It's quite depressing really, being against the general opinion.

 

[WindMajor]

We're all the same way, we're just out of fuel.

 

[Life]

Except BPC. I dunno what happened to him. Kinda sad too--his early posts were kinda the reason I started caring about this stuff.

After thinking about it, if I started tournaments--for one thing, Pittsburgh's scene is kinda comatose, we only have like 4-ish tournaments a year so I'm sure I'd get some attendance--I'd probably start with Unity stagelist plus Japes and Norfair, banning MK and with two stage bans. Then see how much I could get away with from there...

Dunno if I'd try OSF style though. The format looks great on paper but I dunno how I'd implement it without annoying people.

 

[BSP]

I've changed my mind somewhat. I'm really neutral on the MK ban now (won't stop me from attending something), and I don't care for the more liberal lists like I used to.

 

[Tesh]

I still strongly believe OS and OSF make this game alot better. The community always complains about the extremely campy gameplay and no one ever works to fix that. Its all just about fixing MK. *sigh*

 

[ぱみゅ]

Am I the only one that not only support, but actually USES both?

 

[Life]

I still strongly believe OS and OSF make this game alot better. The community always complains about the extremely campy gameplay and no one ever works to fix that. Its all just about fixing MK. *sigh*

Plus one ten characters. I just don't know if it breaks the limits of what people expect from playing tournament smash. And that's terrible.

 

[Tesh]

Well I guess making rules just for MK leaves a good bit of the community alone as far as playstyles. OSF would pretty much drastically alter the metagame. It would be all about stage control instead of...combating ledge tactics.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Can someone enlighten me on what OS and OSF are?

 

[Tesh]

One stock and One stock food.

The general idea is to reduce offstage camping by making it harder to hold a lead from the ledge/air.

One stock, because projectiles and weaker/safer pokes can still bring a lead back as you never need to kill a planker and OSF even moreso because you never need to even approach someone air camping or ledge camping since food will eventually bring you back down to 0%.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Ah, that makes sense.

But with one stock, more matches would need to be played for consistency. If someone SD's then they cant bring it back like they can with multiple stocks.

And the food can mess up with tilts and jabs if they are unlucky enough (I know I would get food under me every time I want to jab)

But I can see OS Bo9 or something like that being a bit better.

 

[Tesh]

Yea thats more or less true.

My hope was always that the improvement of overall gameplay was worth the slightly increased random factor with tilts or jabs being screwed up sometimes.

of course u can increase the match count as needed.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I just have experience with food messing me up. Those 7 hammers will be the death of me.

 

[T-block]

wait... this board has activity?

i'm kinda inspired to try osf at my smashfest tomorrow... seems like it'd be fun

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Food doesn't interrupt attacks iirc

 

[Raziek]

Depends on where you are. If you're grounded and try to jab, you'll eat it instead, I think tilts may do that as well. Not sure about smashes.

 

[BSP]

We should keep all that's happened in Brawl in mind for SSB4

 

[Tesh]

Food doesn't interrupt attacks iirc

There is definitely a quick little animation for eating food. Trying to jab or ftilt near food/items will cause you to pick it up. Its only dash attacks, aerials and airdodges that are unchanged.

I think the odds are extremely low of food popping up directly where you were about to jab/ftilt though.

 

[Life]

You can also pick up food while knocked down. So it works on get-up attack too.

The chance of food interrupting an attack and causing a problem is much less than, say, tripping and having that cause a problem.

 

[Tesh]

Yea, and considering tripping doesnt do any good for the metagame and food does....

 

[-LzR-]

But it's different. Different = bad

 

[BSP]

I think we just get to the point where we don't want to bother with different.

 

[Tesh]

I read on AIB that Doom's tournament was cancelled. I was really looking forward to keeping up with that or at least watching the one if it didnt become a series.

I even made a picture :/

[COLLAPSE="YOLO Brawl"]

[/COLLAPSE]

I strongly feel 1 stock fixes sooooo many problems this game runs into competitively.

 

[teluoborg]

So many = 1 ?
What does it change beside removing the stalling potential of a stock lead ?

 

[Life]

It allows for more stage variety in a given set, for one. Possibly shortens the duration of a set depending on how many games you play.

When you turn it into OSF, you get rid of planking and scrooging as viable ways to run the clock (so MK is probably okay now), you make walkoff camping much weaker (meaning stages like Mario Circuit possibly become viable), you change the dynamics of stages like SV and Yoshi's (suddenly the balloon and shyguys aren't useless distractions), maybe some other things...

 

[ぱみゅ]

Aparently some people in Mexico will play a random Tournament.
As in, literally random:

Spoiler

-8 minutes
-3 stocks
-No items
-You can only pick the RANDOM character slot
-Sets Bo3 (Bo5 finals)

Stages:
-Final Destination
-Battle Field
-Smash Ville
-Yoshi´s Island
-Pokémon Stadium
-Lylat Cruise
-Castle Siege
-Rainbow Cruise
-Jungle Japes
-Halberd
-Frigate Orpheon
-Delfino Plaza

Stage picking procedure:
1- Both players pick the random character slot.
2- The stage is either random or agreed.
3-After the first match, both players must remain with Random characters
4- Loser bans 2 stages
5- Winenr picks a stage from the remaining 10
6- Repeat if necessary
Each player can only ban up to 2 stages, even in a Bo5.


prizes
Whenever someone wins a set, he/she gets to pick a "ticket" with a prize written in it.
Among the 16 tickets, there are:
-5 tickets: $5 ($0.39USD)
-2 tickets: $15 ($1.16USD)
-1 ticket: $20 ($1.55USD)
-2 tickets: “Won't pay rent in the local”
-1 ticket: “Entry fee refund” ($50 - $3.88USD)
-2 tickes: 50% off for the next League Season
-3 tickets: “Better luck next time”

I'm really looking forward to it :D

 

[Tesh]

looooooooooooooool random prizes I ****in love it. Thats amazing.

Also, another plus of 1 stock. Soon Brawl will be a side event for Smash 4 main events. It takes way too long as is to run as a main event and i don't see it will survive alongside melee and smash 4 when it takes up so much time. Even with the next Smash likely improving the number of setups tournament have since its HD finally.

 

[teluoborg]

Ok, then it'll be legit in 2015 in the case smash 4 gets a competitive scene. I can agree with that.

 

[-LzR-]

Or then the likely happens that Smash 4 gets the same thing as with Melee and Brawl. Most Brawl players will hate Smash 4, start feeling superior to Smash 4 players and starting huge *** flamewars all over the place and then **** happens.

 

[infiniteV115]

Or maybe not.
Cause AFAIK that didn't happen with the 64 players when Melee came out, but it happened with the Melee players when Brawl came out.

Maybe it's a no-yes-no-yes kinda pattern.

 

[Life]

Maybe it's like Star Trek. Every other installment is popular.

 

[Tesh]

Quite excited, there is actually going to be a 1 stock side event next month around here with a liberal stage list. I'm quite excited and I'm gonna work on my

 

[ぱみゅ]

There better be videos of that.

 

[Tesh]

^dude yes, we are planning to have all wiis setup to force replays by then, but its 3 minute matches so EVERYTHING better be saved.

I'm hoping I can get it kept around for a 3rd/4th event since it can hopefully be run QUICKLY.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Due to my extreme lack of other things to do, I am thinking of making a stage matchup thread. It is known that stage choice can really change a matchup and I would love to lead a thread for this.

Example: Wario vs D3 on FD is -2 for wario, but Wario vs D3 on Norfair (just go with it) is +2 for Wario. Obviously I would only go through stages that are legal, but I think it would be a great database/thing to bring activity to the stage forums.

Would anyone be interested in contributing to this?

 

[ぱみゅ]

That's a VERY ambitious project.
Over 600 matchups, analyzing any possible stage interference...
I really would like to help, though.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Yes, it would be a MASSIVE project, but I think in the end it could do a lot of good.

And I think going in depth is a bit out of the question here.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I get the feeling that it'd be so inaccurate as to serve little purpose. The data we have for MUs on a specific stage is even less than that of just MUs anywhere, and people still disagree on those.

But hey, don't let me stop you.

 

[WindMajor]

Let me stop you.

It's too ambitious to even consider trying. It will crumble to pieces before it even gets a chance to pick up. Seriously, don't try it.

 

[ぱみゅ]

If anything, the best possible thing to do is an informative thingy saying which characters/matchups are really affected by a more diverse stagelist.


Diddy Kong-King DeDeDe for example, is very bad for DDD in most (of not all) common "Starter" stages, but if you keep adding stages to the list, it is closer to even (Delfino, Brinstar), or maybe in his favor (RC, Norfair).

Then we have your King DeDeDe-Wario example, where the King has a massive advantage in starters, but he loses it if more stages are allowed.

And stuff like that.
/two cents