Stage Information Database and Q&A

[ぱみゅ]

Yeah, it's one of those things you have to learn to live with when you're talking about Smash...
Every scenario is relatively just as frustrating to watch, tho.

 

[Raziek]

That's because they use health bars, not % meters, and only have one life per round. Kinda forces approaches.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Well, I tried to keep BoE legal at SRT... But my word is nothing against RAIN's....

 

[Tesh]

Honestly, whatever your views on stage legality, jumping from ps1 and delfino to BoE was ******** anyway. That stage is dumb AND it has random hazards and what might as well be circle camping.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

BoE is fine in some match-ups.

Its really stupid and depth-destroying in most of them though; you can't have it as a CP without like... 3 bans.

 

[Tesh]

If its depth destroying in most matchups its not a viable stage. For a stage to be legal it should at worst be only that bad in a few matchups, which is the point of having stage bans. FD is one of those stages I feel is not deep at all in some matchups because the game becomes alot more basic.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Well, that's just like... your opinion, man...

 

[ぱみゅ]

It was going to be legal for doubles only anyway.

 

[-LzR-]

There shouldn't be any stages that are only legal in doubles. Dat Melee logic.

 

[Life]

Desperately trying to hold on to the Kid Icarus community before it learns how to be scrubby like Smash. Hoping I'm not too weak.

 

[ぱみゅ]

In Melee, there are different stagelists in doubles and singles because some of them freeze.

In Brawl, the only reason there are not different stagelists it's because people feel it's "unfair" to have an advantage on 2vs1.

But yeah, that's what I gain for liking stage diversity. Now I'm just an idiot to Japan's eyes.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Every doubles match has the potential to become 1v1. Fact.
If a stage isn't legal in singles, that's because it is broken in a 1v1 setting.

Yeah.

 

[T-block]

Yeah but just because 2v2 can become 1v1 doesn't mean our doubles list needs to match our singles list.

 

[-LzR-]

Well you could always throw in the argument that the winning team earned their circlecamp after dealing with the other opponent. It's just that most people don't even want such **** to be possible and that's why we have a bunch of scrubby rules anyways.
It's still a joke since doubles isn't competitive.

 

[Raziek]

How the **** do you figure doubles isn't competitive?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Yeah but just because 2v2 can become 1v1 doesn't mean our doubles list needs to match our singles list.

Well, yeah. I can see a stage being legal in singles but not in doubles.
No reason for the other way round, though.

Well you could always throw in the argument that the winning team earned their circlecamp after dealing with the other opponent.

And you could throw in the argument that the player who picked the faster character on Temple and landed the first hit deserves to win in singles.

Does anyone have any arguments with logical backing to throw in, while we're at it?

It's still a joke since doubles isn't competitive.

...

 

[WindMajor]

Completely off topic, but I'd ban Temple simply because it's too big to be suited for 1v1.

 

[ぱみゅ]

The only criteria why I banned it was the Cave of Life effect.
"Allows Circle Camping strategies" is waaaay too subjective to be a solid criteria (Smashville is a great example of that).

 

[Tesh]

I think applying some common sense goes a long way to crafting a good stagelist. LGLs have been proven vital to multi-stock matches because of how difficult it is to kill a ledge camper. LGLs also control scrooging in the same way.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Except by not playing like an idiot, you can stop ledge-camping and scrooging without a LGL.

Assuming Meta Knight is banned.

 

[ぱみゅ]

[Insert a wall-o-text about "common sense" > "subjectiveness" > "irregulrities" and examples of this using the fact there's not a standard stagelist, not even a set LGL anywhere]

 

[Tesh]

Except by not playing like an idiot, you can stop ledge-camping and scrooging without a LGL.

Assuming Meta Knight is banned.

Risk/Reward kills the depth alot when it comes to the best ledge campers in the game (with or without MK). While technically possible, its hard to hit them and even harder to KILL them, which is a big problem when stock leads come into play. I might be able to support no LGL in 1 stock matches and I would definitely support it in OSF, but protecting a stock lead in the ledge puts you at too big of an advantage and its not deep at all.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

[Insert a wall-o-text about "common sense" > "subjectiveness" > "irregulrities" and examples of this using the fact there's not a standard stagelist, not even a set LGL anywhere]

Some subjectivity is necessary to create a ruleset.

Risk/Reward kills the depth alot when it comes to the best ledge campers in the game (with or without MK). While technically possible, its hard to hit them and even harder to KILL them, which is a big problem when stock leads come into play. I might be able to support no LGL in 1 stock matches and I would definitely support it in OSF, but protecting a stock lead in the ledge puts you at too big of an advantage and its not deep at all.

If we're fixing things to make the game more deep - Do you think we should ban all guaranteed chain grabs? Should we ban Snake's tilts against Jigglypuff to promote more effectively different situations?

I didn't think so.

It isn't a matter of "technically possible"; playing on the ledge with anyone other than Meta Knight completely destroys the majority of your options. Planking is not hard to counter unless you feel pressured in some way (which shouldn't happen unless you are short on time - at that point, most of the planking characters could air camp you out anyway).

As a Jigglypuff main, all of my b'n'b spacing is done with bair: Weave in, weave out. Now, the people that I play against regularly will punish me if I get into any sort of rhythm with this camping (perfect shielding, pivot grabbing, rolling behind me, etc...) - the same thing applies for plankers.

But really, there is only so much I can explain without knowing specifically why you think planking is such a powerful position. Do you have a match you can link me to that shows how broken the technique is?

 

[ぱみゅ]

I'm pretty sure the only video is Will vs RichBrown (or whatever the Olimar player it was).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Will did the same thing vs. ADHD as well

 

[T-block]

Well you could always throw in the argument that the winning team earned their circlecamp after dealing with the other opponent. It's just that most people don't even want such **** to be possible and that's why we have a bunch of scrubby rules anyways.
It's still a joke since doubles isn't competitive.

basically this

if you go into a 2v2 and it becomes say a sonic vs marth 1v1 on bridge of eldin, and sonic wins by running away, are we really going to say that the winning team didn't deserve their victory or w/e? if the team with sonic can force that situation, they can have the win - what's wrong with that? it's not like it's trivial to force that situation in the first place.

 

[-LzR-]

Yes that exactly, but is it really worth to waste valuable tournament time waiting for the last 5 minutes to pass with Sonic running away? That would be a problem.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Did someone really recommend Bridge of Eldin to a Japanese major?

 

[ぱみゅ]

A scrub/idiot that's bad at the game, nothing people should be really worried about.

 

[Tesh]

They already had BoE on the list as a "maybe" when the thread went up. I found it to be very comical. Its a horrible stage and its not really fun even for casual play.

 

[WindMajor]

Yo but it was so epic in Twilight Princess though.

 

[WindMajor]

So a tournament is being hosted in Puerto Rico for once! Here are the rules!!!

1. Free For All 4 Players
2. 6 stocks per player
3. No items
4. No gay things
5. We're not responsible for things that are lost/stolen/etc.
6. Players should be at their stations on time, if you don't make it you're ****ed cause you're not playing!!
7. No smoking inside the building.
8. No changing the order.
9. Match-making is random.
10. Only one set-up with a Wii
11. No fighting
12. There is nothing BANNED!!
13. Have Fun

 

[ぱみゅ]

That ruleset makes more sense than the ones we are always trying to craft.

 

[Tesh]

no items, no gay things, there is nothing banned?

 

[WindMajor]

he was serious btw

---

edit: So after a good couple of hours of trolling, he finally decided to let my friend help him craft a ruleset. It's just a doubles tourney though.

[collapse="tl;dr"]2v2 team (Doble Elimination)
-3 stock
-8 minutos
-Items en "off" y "none"
-Cuando se acaba el tiempo el ganador se decide por vidas, despues por porciento. (el que mas lejos este de ser eliminado) [time outs are solved by stock then %]
-En una disputa, se decidiran los puertos de control con Piedra Papel y Tijera. [RPS will resolve disputes]
-No se puede hacer "stalling", ni cualquier glitch que tranque el juego. [No stalling, no game-freezing glitches]

-Se hara stage striking y Counterpicking normal de la lista de de los once stages. [stages will be struck and counterpicked from these 11 stages]
Battlefield
Yoshi's Island
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium
Final Destination
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes

-Team Attack esta PRENDIDO [team attack on]
-Se puede compartir stocks. [share stocks allowed]
-Si hay algun Lucario, Falco o Sonic, tienen el derecho al equipo azul. [color blind clause]

-En cualquier evento que alguien use un suicide move (Como Gannon o Bowser), si el juego decide que alguien gano, pues ese gana, si sale Sudden Death, pues se pone un juego Tiebreaker con 1 stock y 3 minutos, con los mismos characters y el mismo stage. [suicide move endings result in whatever the game screen says]
-Cualquier accion que sea para distraer a tu oponente (no ba~arase, desconectarle el control, gritarle en el oido, etc) esta prohibida, y es una automatica descalificacion) [distracting your opponent like M!ke H@ze would is prohibited][/collapse]

So we got FLOSSing, no LGL, MK legal, infinites legal, and JUNGLE JAPES! :D

here's hoping that nobody ****s it up

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Jungle Japes!!! I approve

BF, Yoshis, PS1, Lylat, Smashville are the starters? Or are CS and FD added as well?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

No gay things eh?

A tourney I'm banned at that's for sure.

 

[WindMajor]

All the stages are starters.

 

[ぱみゅ]

FLOSS? People actually do that?

 

[Tesh]

japan does