St.Louis Area Discussion Thread

[The Milk Monster]

not legit. using hacked pokemon and stolen movesets off the internet takes all the fun out of battling. we might as well play shoddy or one of the other simulators if you're going to do that crap

Yeah I agree.

While EV'ing is boring and tedious, doing it legit feels better. Like running a mile. You'd feel better if you ran it on feet, but doing it in a car would get done a lot quicker.

The only time I'd hack it is if like a tourney or something was a day away or something and I needed a team ready.

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

not legit. using hacked pokemon and stolen movesets off the internet takes all the fun out of battling. we might as well play shoddy or one of the other simulators if you're going to do that crap

Hacking is doing nothing more or less than speeding up the process of acquiring a team (provided the hacker doesn't do stupid stuff like a 31 in every IV).

And shoddy is gay because it doesn't have doubles.

 

[MentokJebus]

Yeah I agree.

While EV'ing is boring and tedious, doing it legit feels better. Like running a mile. You'd feel better if you ran it on feet, but doing it in a car would get done a lot quicker.

The only time I'd hack it is if like a tourney or something was a day away or something and I needed a team ready.

wouldn't tourneys ban hacked pkmn anyways? Or are the hacked pkmn completely undetectable?


well daniel the seraph since this is a smash board, I'll make a smash analogy

would it be fair if I hooked up a gameshark to melee so that every aerial is L canceled perfectly or multishines can be performed by mashing instead of timing b and jump? It's just speeding up the process of getting some tech skill.

How about I use codes so that all my turnips are bombs? It's just speeding up the process of getting the turnip I want without spending the match picking and discarding turnips (aka hard gardening work).

hacking yourself a team is basically jobbing the people that breed and make their own teams. I had to beg a friend to mystery gift me hundreds of times for TMs, pp ups, leftovers etc and move tutor some of my pokes in platinum and trade back to me just so I could say my team is legit.

I haven't really tried doubles outside of story mode, sounds kinda interesting. But if you're using "engineered" pokes against my super casual team its kinda unfair.

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

1. The hacked Pokemon are undetectable if you know what you're doing.

2. lol comparing a turn based RPG to a real time fighting game.

3. I don't do anything with hax that can't be done with your precious hard work.

 

[MentokJebus]

1. The hacked Pokemon are undetectable if you know what you're doing.

3. I don't do anything with hax that can't be done with your precious hard work.

1) scary

3) thats not my point. for example, with hacking you have access to perfect iv/nature legendaries so you can have 10 different azelfs for instance with different movesets. normally you only get one.

no matter. bring your hacked pkmn. I'll just sic Phil's Mewtwo on you. I heard it's super effective

btw is there a way to play teams doubles?

for example Me+phil vs Dan+Tmacc or some other combination?

 

[Nuris]

Also, all the cool kids hack their Pokemon (with legit stats) nowadays. It's certainly preferable to spending 5 hours fighting Golducks for SpA EVs and spending like a months breeding for 30s in IVs.

That's fine as long as you're competing against other people who also hack their Pokemon. If you want to do that to emphasize strategy and execution. However, many people would prefer to 5 hours or even months of hard work and battle with Pokemon they raised themselves. Saying that it's fair to put your hacked Pokemon up against theirs just because it was theoretically possible for them to attain the same Pokemon is dumb. You're not "speeding up the process", you are bypassing the game itself.

A better analogy than that of Smash is that of WoW Arena (or probably any PvP in MMORPGs). We you play WoW, you aren't supposed to glitch, cheat, hack, or bot in any way to give yourself an advantage over other players. That way when you compete in PvP and Arena on the Realms, you all have had access to equivalent characters, quests, communities, areas, and items, and everyone had to spend their time one way or another leveling their character, acquiring items, and otherwise improving their character. To a certain extent, how good your character is is not about how good you are at the game, but how much time you've invested in it, and that's how it's supposed to be.

However, in competitive Arena, you are set-up on a separate realm where you get to modify your character as you please, much like Shoddy Battle or hacking Pokemon. In this case, the point is to make your character (or team in the case of Pokemon) the best it could possibly be in game given infinite time and resources. However, these characters are kept separate from the realms for a reason. They are not meant to compete with others on the realms, only with each other, even if it is possible for players to have the same items and builds as the modded characters through their 'precious hard work'.

Since this is Smashboards, I will make a small Smash analogy, albeit an imperfect one. Playing with hacked Pokemon is like playing Smash with a TAS character (only without rerecords) and your opponent is playing the game as it is. You have an unfair advantage because you effectively have infinite time to choose your moves and to react to your opponents choices and mistakes. Obviously this scenario is impossible, but it does provide food for thought.

In the end, a hacked Pokemon and a hand-raised Pokemon are not the same, no matter how similar they look in code. Just because you are setting completely arbitrary handicaps (e.g. not having 31 for all your stats) for your Pokemon to make them more similar to those produced in-game does not mean your Pokemon should be held to the same standards as those trained manually. Just because you fool a tourney TO does not make your Pokemon legit. Just because other people could also hack their Pokemon does not mean their investment of time is meaningless. It's a matter of preference, and to many people, it is preferable to compete with Pokemon they bred and trained themselves against people who bred and trained their own Pokemon as well.

In conclusion, my Mewtwo has 0s in every IV and Shadow Ball, Disable, Confusion, and Teleport but will still sweep your entire team.

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

1) scary

3) thats not my point. for example, with hacking you have access to perfect iv/nature legendaries so you can have 10 different azelfs for instance with different movesets. normally you only get one.

no matter. bring your hacked pkmn. I'll just sic Phil's Mewtwo on you. I heard it's super effective

btw is there a way to play teams doubles?

for example Me+phil vs Dan+Tmacc or some other combination?

There is. It's called Mixed Battle. EDIT: I am now certain that both the wifi room and local room have it. But the local room sucks since it doesn't have lvl 100 battles or anything.

No one who plays competitively really does it though since its hard to perfectly coordinate doubles teams with two people (synergy's even more important in doubles than singles).

To a certain extent, how good your character is is not about how good you are at the game, but how much time you've invested in it, and that's how it's supposed to be.

And here's where I think we disagree. I think the guy who puts emphasis on conceptualizing a team rather than constructing it is deserving of whatever wins the team and his own battling skills bring him. Building a team and building a character in a MMO are a bit different in nature. Pokemon battling is 75% teambuilding and 25% execution; if you have an excellent team and you know how to use it, you'll likely do really well. Therefore, is it ridiculous to put more effort into the incredibly difficult process of making a great team on paper than grueling away to manifest that team?

Like I said, the main purpose of hacking teams, as used today, is to expedite the process of making a team so as to put more emphasis on thinking about the team.

I can't really come up with an analogy at the moment, but Smash and WoW are really incomparable to Pokemon in competitive natures.

I conclusion, wouldn't you rather have a system where we DON'T HAVE to worry about things like IVs (ie, all IVs being equal), a system where we can spend all our time thinking about our team and our success being determined solely by our teambuilding and battle skills?

I would. I don't like hearing regularly that the guy who spent days creating a mediocre team is a better gamer/ Pokemon battler than the guy who made one that trounces former guy's team through thoughtful design, not OMG IT MUST HAVE A 999 in SPEED.

Anyway, does anyone who's getting HG/SS tomorrow wanna battle ingame teams ? Totodile and Sentret vs your pokes.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Will! I finished Heavy Rain! One ending down, I have no idea how many left to go!

OMFG SOOOOOO GOOOODOOOODODODOODDODO

 

[darkatma]

SMYM11 was a success.
except for the part where I got knocked out by EC twice.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Will! I finished Heavy Rain! One ending down, I have no idea how many left to go!

OMFG SOOOOOO GOOOODOOOODODODOODDODO

sex sex sex sex

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

Results aren't up yet.

Who exactly did you lose to, Binyan?

 

[MentokJebus]

There is. It's called Mixed Battle. EDIT: I am now certain that both the wifi room and local room have it. But the local room sucks since it doesn't have lvl 100 battles or anything.



I conclusion, wouldn't you rather have a system where we DON'T HAVE to worry about things like IVs (ie, all IVs being equal), a system where we can spend all our time thinking about our team and our success being determined solely by our teambuilding and battle skills?

I would.

now I remember why i never battle. non lvl 100 pkmn and a router that has security incompatible with my DS.

only problem with that is if you hack you aren't doing the teambuilding part.

who won SMYM? teams and singles?

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

now I remember why i never battle. non lvl 100 pkmn and a router that has security incompatible with my DS.

only problem with that is if you hack you aren't doing the teambuilding part.

who won SMYM? teams and singles?

I use the word teambuilding here to refer to a players ability to conceptualize a good team.

 

[Dart]

GGs binyan. Sorry, I got sheikd two rounds after u jewd me

 

[Dart]

GGs binyan. Sorry, I got sheikd two rounds after u jewd me

Woops meant to say sorry for raging

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

Just got my copy of Heart Gold, Pokewalker, Ho-oh figure, and Jirachi. =DDDDDD

 

[Zig-Zag!]

good job st.louis!

what the **** my partner on campus went to smym and didnt even tell me!!!!!!!

 

[treppy]

Seconded; great job you guys!

 

[Lixivium]

Not me, I didn't even make it out of pools this time.

 

[darkatma]

you had the gayest pool ever alex. and barely didnt make it out coz of rainbow cruise making your iceblock disappear.

 

[MentokJebus]

you had the gayest pool ever alex. and barely didnt make it out coz of rainbow cruise making your iceblock disappear.

isn't using ice climbers on moving stages like rainbow cruise or pokefloats a terrible idea?

 

[GenoBlast]

yeah, Jazz was there too Zig.

 

[Lixivium]

The pool was ridiculous, but I'm not going to john about moving stages. IC's aren't that bad on Rainbow Cruise - it was last stock high percents.

 

[darkatma]

jazzness actually prevented lixi from getting into the bracket.
Their set was incredibly close though.

 

[Sage JoWii]

NICOLE!!!!! Whenever you get back from NK3 do you think I can have you swing by the Kirby Match-Up export thread? I took over management and we're discussing Peach. I'd kinda like to leech your knowledge if I could.

 

[Nicole]

NICOLE!!!!! Whenever you get back from NK3 do you think I can have you swing by the Kirby Match-Up export thread? I took over management and we're discussing Peach. I'd kinda like to leech your knowledge if I could.

Can do. In fact, I've already done it!

 

[Legan]

nicole sucks

 

[The Milk Monster]

Corey I want to play you in TvC.

Will go talk to Seth and tell him to buy Heavy Rain like...NOW.

Umm...Dunno what else.

 

[Legan]

i think i might head over to jeffs to play tommorow so you should swing by luke. Im getting legit in that game

 

[The Milk Monster]

I'm REALLY working on it. I'm still trying to find a team I like a lot (Right now I like Yat2/Ryu), but past that, I like Jun a lot, I'm just not sure who else. You should start showing up to his crib on Sundays, and I'll come with Hector.

Who do you use?

 

[Legan]

Ryu/Morrigan

 

[MetalMusicMan]

http://games.adultswim.com/robot-unicorn-attack-twitchy-online-game.html

 

[The Milk Monster]

Ryu/Morrigan

Interesting.

One of Jeff's buddies uses Zero and Morrigan and **** his team is unreal. He crosses up like a mother ****er and it's like you have to switch your block at the EXACT right time or you still get hit and just my god. lol Ryu ditto's are going to be so silly.

 

[Legan]

ive met the morrigan player and hes pretty ****, weve got different playstyles by my morrigan holds its own. Ryus probably better but my team actually works out really well. Morrigan is pretty technical too so thats probably why i like her. Yatterman2 is sick too

 

[darkatma]

morrigan looks like a sexy *****.

 

[The Milk Monster]

ive met the morrigan player and hes pretty ****, weve got different playstyles by my morrigan holds its own. Ryus probably better but my team actually works out really well. Morrigan is pretty technical too so thats probably why i like her. Yatterman2 is sick too

Yeah she is for real. Yat 2 is pretty silly, and her combos are fairly easy. Ryu's too, and with Yat's assist you can get a decent combo in with 4 bars.

I just gotta' find someone I like that works with Jun.

 

[Nuris]

And here's where I think we disagree.

No, it's just that you read one part and then totally ignored/misinterpreted the rest of what I said.

Competitive Pokemon is about choosing the right Pokemon and movesets, and executing them [super] effectively. If that's what you want to do, then by all means use Shoddy Battle and Action Replay to set all your Pokemon to all 31 IVs and your choice of hold items, legal movesets, natures, and EV distributions. In this case, all players should have the same starting materials, and be judged on what they create and how they use it.

On the other hand,

Casual play (i.e. playing and battling with the game as is) is DESIGNED to be an investment of time and effort, and a lot of people get enjoyment and satisfaction from that. Bypassing that part with hacking defeats the purpose of casual play because while success is supposed to be a combination of effort and strategy, AR is rather effortless and allows you to maximize the power and strategy of a team. It lessens the experience for those who wish to play the game as it was made.

That is why battling AR hacked Pokemon against Pokemon trained in-game makes no sense (no matter how many arbitrary handicaps you put on yourself).

ANYWAYS,
I'm pretty excited about HG/SS. I will probably pick SS up when I get a chance later in the week. I'd be down for battles, just give me a chance to get somewhere in the game first.

Also, if you want to battle me in doubles on Diamond or something, teach me how to use your AR and I'm pretty sure I could design a team in 5 minutes that would whoop you no problem. All I need is Jigglypuff and Mewtwo.

If you actually want to play doubles, I can design a team to battle yours but I don't have AR or know how to use it so you might have make it for me or something. I also don't have a Diamond Version anymore :'( but I do have Platinum. I'm also not too knowledgeable about Pokemon so you'll probably whoop me (BACK IN MY DAY, THERE WERE ONLY 150 OF THOSE BUGGERS).








Umm... to everyone else, let's play sometime this weekend maybe :D

 

[Teh Future]

lol at pokemans argument.

andrew/nicole you guys are ***s

edit:

Will!

I GOT

YEAAAAAAAH.

fixed for accuracy

 

[Morrigan]

Did someone say Morrigan?

 

[Dekuschrub]

whothe **** are you