Squirtleknight is obnoxious obv :012:. - Marth+

[VietGeek]

Gimme my sh double fair, with some time inbetween to bait a god **** air dodge to boot ~_~.

Lol I'm pretty sure SHDF is still there, especially with the slightly increased angle up (it's not Melee tipper but it's **** close). Also, Shaya, have you considered the difficulty of it may be due to your buffer setting? Wait, can the PAL set even set buffers atm?

Also Shaya...vBrawl Marth horizontal combo ability was based on Dancing Blade (I know he has other **** but both you and I know practicality-wise every string ended in DB)...Brawl+ is almost the same in that regard. His horizontal comboing can't swat people from one side to another like Melee unless your opponent can't tech, but it gets the **** done most of the time.

Unimpressive, perhaps compared to Squirtle Knight (lol), but as you said, Brawl (in general) Marth excels in juggling and that's how it should be. The beta set reduces damage and that in a way gives Marth more combo ability as opponent's won't fly away as quickly. However it still seems to be strong in juggling, and not horizontal comboing as you've observed from past B+ sets.

I wouldn't mind dash attack having a use...considering it is by far one of the worst moves in the game and is unsafe on shield, even with the massive shieldstun overhaul in Brawl+ to cater to more offensive play.

 

[proteininja]

I like the dash attack where it is because it punishes you shen you slip up on an approach.

Miss that dash cancel?

PUNISH!!!

It's one of his weaknesses that IMO should stay.

 

[VietGeek]

I like the dash attack where it is because it punishes you shen you slip up on an approach.

Miss that dash cancel?

PUNISH!!!

It's one of his weaknesses that IMO should stay.

If you're talking about dash attack, it's not really a weakness...

it's just useless and we don't usually take into consideration, especially since Dancing Blade actually exists in Brawl and Brawl+.

If you mean a weakness in his horizontal combo ability, perhaps that's fine considering his juggling ability is still excellent, and has always been (although overshadowed by horizontal comboing in Melee due to also gaining a positional advantage at the ledge which Marth thrives on).

 

[Shaya]

I have americanz brawl Viet. Always have.
I got brawl probably before you did

and "lol" when I mean baiting the air dodge, it's more of a time period that allows Marth to react to DI, either (usually) fast falling, or swinging another aerial.
Dancing Blade in vBrawl isn't my primary focus in Marth, and hasn't been for a while. Marth's aerials in vBrawl set a pace for the match that characters struggle to overcome, his aerials allow punishing of reactions, he has means of keeping people where he wants to, and the ground part only involves grabs (which atm in brawl+ feels like he can't really 'combo' into grabs) or if they break out of the tedium db to punish or pokes for reactions. Sure you can double fair, but there's barely enough time to do so, you either have to jump again, take the dancing blade string, or miss. I suppose Marth can't really weave in the air like he can in vBrawl at the moment.

Like when I play Falco in brawl+ I see the differences in his short hop, allowing him to enhance his movements. Marth feels hes missing out on mobility through the changes rather than relatively gaining momentum/mobility.

Changes in his aerials properties, or jumping/floatyness to allow for his 'weaving' would be most pleasing.

 

[VietGeek]

I have americanz brawl Viet. Always have.
I got brawl probably before you did .

Unpossible.

I sat outside in the cold on launch day. One of the worst decisions ever IMO.

Sure you can double fair, but there's barely enough time to do so, you either have to jump again, take the dancing blade string, or miss. I suppose Marth can't really weave in the air like he can in vBrawl at the moment.

Like when I play Falco in brawl+ I see the differences in his short hop, allowing him to enhance his movements. Marth feels hes missing out on mobility through the changes rather than relatively gaining momentum/mobility.

I'm clearing misunderstanding here...you say you know of double fair...but you're implying it doesn't work for a shorthop? Marth's physics were actually left almost unchanged as possible so he could keep his staple walling techniques, and fair x2, fair > 1st nair, and fair > uair in one shorthop.

which is why he really doesn't have drastic physics. Despite him feeling odd, he's retained the level of polished that's present in vBrawl. He only feels lackluster imo, because Meta Knight is still in the game and everyone else seems to have something new and exciting to use. But Marth doesn't need more options...he has always sported the fact that he had many of them to begin with. Perhaps this makes him look shallower to the rest of the cast, but he's still one of the best, and most people would not appreciate Marth getting any sort of buff, no matter how little. Conservatism.

 

[shanus]

I can easily adjust his gravity so he jumps faster while retaining those properties. Its been a complaint which I've been meaning to address. Viet, how is the test set going, marth still playing well?

 

[VietGeek]

I can easily adjust his gravity so he jumps faster while retaining those properties. Its been a complaint which I've been meaning to address. Viet, how is the test set going, marth still playing well?

Yeah, Marth feels almost the same and the little tweaks make him feel like a hybrid of the Brawl and Melee Marth. Dolphin Slash not feeling absolutely nerfed either is nice. Tipped uair feels nice comboing so fine (Neko doesn't like it but I do, although yeah it is a kill move in vBrawl), and since nair is still the same, we still got the aerial kill moves. ;P

When you nerf someone but still make them retain a similar style of play, that's pretty good lol.

I wouldn't mind faster jumps as long as his comboing game isn't negatively affected by it. Some people were talking about fixing some weird jumps compared to fastfalls beforehand weren't they?

 

[Veril]

he's still one of the best, and most people would not appreciate Marth getting any sort of buff, no matter how little. Conservatism.

QFT

I don't see any non-Marth mains saying Marth+ is "lackluster" in any way.

 

[GHNeko]

When tourney results come in to show Marth isnt winning anything, they'll still probably think the same thing.

I really dont think he's all that good. If anything, I think Mario as he is, is better than the latest Marth.

 

[VietGeek]

Marth won't be winning anything so as long as Meta Knight exists, but that doesn't mean Marth isn't a good character.

 

[GHNeko]

I didn't say he wasnt a good one. And lolwut, Marth can deal with MK now.

 

[goodoldganon]

I think you are both crazy if you really don't think Marth is amazing. I don't think he is an unbeatable titan like some people believe, but he is certainly one of the bests.

 

[GHNeko]

He's not really amazing. He's very good, but not amazing. How can he be amazing if he's being balanced out anyways.

 

[VietGeek]

ITT - Marth mains are modest about their character unless we're talking about Melee.

Okay guys...let's talk...

Fox. Match-up time.

I'll actually be writing stuff tomorrow. Don't hurt me Neko, I thought it was Spring Break!

 

[GHNeko]

Uthrow > Utilt to decent percents, then fsmash.

GG

9001:0 Marth.


But seriously, 60:40 Marth. Marth outranges Fox on...alot of things, but simply cant camp cuz Fox has a projectile, so he has to play a passive offense. Staying close, but not being TOO aggressive works, at least for me. Keep Fox from decending upon you from above. Every grab you get at low percents. Uthrow. It's probably going to be one of the more used throws on Fox. More than F and D. Uair after every advancing fair that connects, and do not tip with uair until killing percents, so you can juggle him for that much longer.

Also, Dancing Blade ending with Up @ low-mid percents > Fox

We can shut out his recovery options with properly timing. Jab > Illusion. Fsmash/Dtilt > Firefox. Throwing him off the ledge at low percents can lead to early edgeguarding kills.

Things like DB 1 to Up B stage spike. And Ledge hop Bair can reliably keep Fox off the stage when properly timed.

Despite all this, if he gets in with a dair, may lord have mercy on your soul. Get near 100% and Usmash will become THE move to fear. So for the love of god, dont let him approach from above.

Fox can deal with pressure, so being to aggressive is stuuupid. He can gimp you easily, just as easily if not a bit easier than we can gimp him.

 

[Shaya]

Well I thought it may have something to do with move decay thats stopping the 'flow' Marth has in vBrawl.

So I set everything else to normal other than removing move decay, and Marth can still string aerials together in pretty much the same fashion.

I can only come to the conclusion that other changes in Brawl+ (even if none are specifically on Marth) is messing this 'flow' he previously had.

Marth is definitely an amazing character in Brawl+, but the way he is atm, all of his ground moves are made obsolete by DB. He doesn't need to crouch cancel anything... DB (even though I read is having his damage nerfed) outdoes all of his other moves. He's kind of like a huge defensive electric fence, you can't touch it, you can't hurt it, and it it will shock you from everywhere within his range, but he ain't going to be chasing after you too easily (Even with his great dash speed). If I was to conclude, it's due to most character's getting an aerial momentum boost, but Marth's remains unchanged?

 

[GHNeko]

DC Dtilt and Fsmash. Thank you very much.

 

[Shaya]

But Dancing Blade is faster and if not tippered, stronger than fsmash... Requires no technical 'twinge' (however small it is), and does GOD **** MORE DAMAGE (at the moment)

DC Dtilt? Agreed, that's nice

 

[GHNeko]

DC Fsmash > Dancing Blade, when being chased or for pivot mindgames (ie running past your opponent than DC Pivot Fsmash)

DC Fmash has its uses over DB. The opportunities just dont present themselves very often. LOL.

 

[VietGeek]

Btw Neko, I meant rising fair to 1st hit nair IN THE SAME SHORTHOP.

It's gimmicky and you have to lunge into them but it may be stupid enough to work.

 

[GHNeko]

Btw Neko, I meant rising fair to 1st hit nair IN THE SAME SHORTHOP.

It's gimmicky and you have to lunge into them but it may be stupid enough to work.

That's what I was testing. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but it didnt work because of the winddown on Rising Fair.

 

[VietGeek]

That's what I was testing. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but it didnt work because of the winddown on Rising Fair.

Try it on 10 frame buffer? EDIT: Unless you mean it's not a true combo or something.

anyway they can SDI in to avoid the grab, but you can basically do any quick move from this, DB, dsmash, DS, dtilt, etc.

 

[GHNeko]

Try it on 10 frame buffer? EDIT: Unless you mean it's not a true combo or something.

anyway they can SDI in to avoid the grab, but you can basically do any quick move from this, DB, dsmash, DS, dtilt, etc.

7 frames of buffer for me. And I mean that after the lag of the rising fair, they're already in a neutral stance during the falling nair. So they can block the nair. :/

 

[VietGeek]

Ah, I see now. Yeah, it's kinda a string then lol. If they shield you grab, or if they don't you can do some quick move of choice. I tried it in training mode (with cursed 0 buffer =( ) and yeah it's not a true combo. It's Marth's Luigi jab > upB...except less sexy.

Which is kinda odd since fair > uair in one SH to usmash is considered a true 3 hit lol.

 

[GHNeko]

That was when Fair sent into a tumble pre 22(34)%.

that's the issue with fair now, that before those percents, it doesnt send into tumble. After those percents, the move works okay.

You can probably "K3N C0MB0Z!!" at mid percents if you tipper multiple fairs, but only if you tipper, as untipped fairs will just send them down. Lulz.

I'd still rather do something that isnt unreliable.

Also, I've been thinking. What are your thoughts on a bair that sends at lower angles?

 

[VietGeek]

That was when Fair sent into a tumble pre 22(34)%.

that's the issue with fair now, that before those percents, it doesnt send into tumble. After those percents, the move works okay.

You can probably "K3N C0MB0Z!!" at mid percents if you tipper multiple fairs, but only if you tipper, as untipped fairs will just send them down. Lulz.

I'd still rather do something that isnt unreliable.

Also, I've been thinking. What are your thoughts on a bair that sends at lower angles?

Wow that's depressing...<_<

Err...I wouldn't mind it being at a lower angle, but what's its current setting?

 

[GHNeko]

Um. I'd have to go pull up data. But right now, because Bair has a lower damage output and a lower BKB, a lower angle will help it edgeguard, as the range on bair is awesome.

 

[ChaosKnight]

all you guys suck with Marth +

 

[GHNeko]

all you guys suck with Marth +

no u

10whoareyou

 

[VietGeek]

CK is one of the better Marth players of the EC.

Although I know he's all red so he's not important.

 

[GHNeko]

Well, I know who he is, but who is he to come into the thread and post junk like that?

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Well, I know who he is, but who is he to come into the thread and post junk like that?

vietgeek just said

 

[Arkaether]

Brawl+ =/= Brawl

 

[RyuReiatsu]

Brawl+ =/= Brawl

He did mention Marth+, I'm pretty sure he's good with him then.

 

[Arkaether]

vids or it didn't happen.

 

[shanus]

So i made new marth physics. He umps faster and stuff. His fair uair requires buffering, but he plays pretty pimp. I also added small amounts of BKB to allow tumbling earlier.

 

[VietGeek]

So i made new marth physics. He umps faster and stuff. His fair uair requires buffering, but he plays pretty pimp. I also added small amounts of BKB to allow tumbling earlier.

Does this mean VietGeek's rather lovely (but equally questionable) fair > uair > usmash is a legitimate combo from 0% now? o_O

Also you fixing TL's dsmash:

you need two Internets. I couldn't give you one because CNET was too big.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

So i made new marth physics. He umps faster and stuff. His fair uair requires buffering, but he plays pretty pimp. I also added small amounts of BKB to allow tumbling earlier.

Will that be implemented in BrawlPlussery ? And also, mind sharing his new physics? I wanna try him out too.

vids or it didn't happen.

I've got nothing to do with it, forget it .

 

[ChaosKnight]

i might have some vids up soon to see my awesome (crappy marth) marth

 

[GHNeko]

fyi guys. Marth has ben fixed.