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Squirtleknight is obnoxious obv :012:. - Marth+

a male platypus

a male platypus

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I think Marth's worst match up will probably still be meta too, mainly because of the ease of gimping to edgehogging him. I've been playing alot of Marth myself and I have to say I wish dancing blade was a LITTLE bit stronger, not like it used to be :/
 
GHNeko

GHNeko

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It's Marth's disjointed hitbox and his lack of aerial lag that generally makes him good.

His B moveset is an average moveset, only thing unique about it is dancing blade.
 
R

RyuReiatsu

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GHNeko said:
It's Marth's disjointed hitbox and his lack of aerial lag that generally makes him good.

His B moveset is an average moveset, only thing unique about it is dancing blade.
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I'd say, he can't be considered broken, even with dancing blade being almost a character for itself :laugh:. You can't spam stuffs without getting punished, plus he doesn't have that many safe killers anymore... whereas you have much more room to make mistake with let's say... Fox or G&W. They can be played by spammers, and put up something you could call a fight. I still wish he could have his old Fair back, despite the fact that the actual one is awesome, he can't combo all that much... And a longer sword, yeah, I'm a whinnar. A LONGER SWORD PLEASE, I loved his Broken Melee Fsmash...

Anyways, I've been totally busy all week. I'm passing by before going to bed.
I'll try getting screenshots of the issues with Uair and Utilt as soon as possible.
 
V

VietGeek

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quinnydinny said:
and his hit boxes are just nuts. The only way I see to nerf him is to take away his sword.
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...You are aware Meta Knight and Ike actually have better disjoints more or less? o_O

And yeah, I mean in length. MK barely loses out (he loses to Marth'sfsmash and shield breaker, but beats his staple aerial moves okay lol).

So really the only two moves he has with "nutty" hitboxes are fsmash and shield breaker...neither are particularly excellent moves, both are quite laggy and do not kill for a while unless tipped (in SB's case, landing it is amazing in of itself).

Considering even ROB and Snake beat out most of Marth's staple moves with their ftilt, it's not quite his range that's the problem.

Nor is it the disjoint because honestly most of the length is also his arm...a hurtbox you can grab or attack. Hence in Melee you could grab Marth from an *almost* tipped fsmash distance in dittos.

So yeah, a lot of characters beat Marth in the 'range' game. His range really isn't unique anymore, neither is his speed or combo ability (oh hi MK). In Melee you could make an argument because Marth was LOL.

I'll be honest, Marth looks to be one of the best, that's a no-brainer. However, he looks to also be soft-CP'd by quick, big pressure, gimpy characters like MK and Sheik.

Note he, like Fox has lost a lot of weight coming into Brawl (lol), and with his mediocre at best recovery, and blindspot below, he does have some weaknesses.

While few, the weaknesses are somewhat severe enough to be taken clear advantage of, unlike MK who only has a constant weakness of being light.

Unless somewhat breaks him, he looks to only soft-counter (60-40) some of the cast, and have 50-50s on probably a decent number of the top.

Which means he will be an uphill battle for lower tiered characters, but more often than not, not quite be the best character for every situation.

EDIT: Yeah, go ahead and say that you broke him CK. Proactive play ftw?

Also, let's counterpick slopped stages everyone. Against Marth. <_<

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PjJ9Rwk9iY#watch-vid-title

^ Watch the end...lol.
 
JCaesar

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I think that everyone assumes Marth, much like Squirtle and MK, is top tier mostly because he's so easy to pick up and do well with. He just has such a good moveset and good overall mobility, etc., and he suffers from no real harsh weaknesses or disadvantages, and much of what he can do is very safe. There are other characters with quirkier movesets and characteristics, like Olimar or Snake or ROB, who may end up higher on the tier list eventually, but they are harder to use at high level and have much smaller player-bases so they will reach their full potential later than Marth. But while Brawl+ is still young, characters like Marth and Squirtle and MK are sure to stay on top of the pack.
 
GHNeko

GHNeko

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Unfortunately, Marth's learning curve to do well at top level play has risen due to nerfs. :V

He's easy to pick up, but to do well at a tourney, you need to know Marth. V:

Also, GOD **** IT VIET. I DIDNT WANT TO SHOW THAT TO ANYONE. FFFF.
 
V

VietGeek

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GHNeko said:
Also, GOD **** IT VIET. I DIDNT WANT TO SHOW THAT TO ANYONE. FFFF.
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Neko, I did that when we still had S-canceling (aka it's old)...and it's possible in Brawl too.

Pretty sure on non-sloped stages you can powershield and shield DI to grab the ledge too.

lol
 
GHNeko

GHNeko

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VietGeek said:
Neko, I did that when we still had S-canceling (aka it's old)...and it's possible in Brawl too.

Pretty sure on non-sloped stages you can powershield and shield DI to grab the ledge too.

lol
Click to expand...

Point? I didn't want it to be common spread knowledge. :V

And in Brawl, auto ledgesnap? Halloo?


Jeez. Get with the program.
 
Veril

Veril

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JCaesar007 said:
I think that everyone assumes Marth, much like Squirtle and MK, is top tier mostly because he's so easy to pick up and do well with. He just has such a good moveset and good overall mobility, etc., and he suffers from no real harsh weaknesses or disadvantages, and much of what he can do is very safe.
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Oh, so what you're saying is that people think Marth, Squirtle and MK are really good because... they are really good. Wow! :p

They aren't vbrawl MK/Snake good though. Thank god.
 
JCaesar

JCaesar

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No, I'm saying people think they're really good because they're easy to become good with, i.e. they have a smaller learning curve than most characters. They may or may not have as much unlocked potential as other characters, and they may not even end up being top tier characters down the road when the metagame of Brawl+ progresses. Or maybe they will stay on top, it's all speculation at this point. I'm just saying it's possible.

Think Sheik from Melee. She was hella easy to play at a high level, and everyone thought she was the best for a long time, but she ended up dropping on the tier list (well, some people still say she's the best, but whatever).

And thankfully none of them are stupid good like those stupid characters in stupid vBrawl. What a stupid game.
 
JCaesar

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No one is easy to become "really good" with, but Marth is certainly one of the easiest characters to pick up and do decently in tourney with if you had never played B+ before. It just depends where you draw the line. I stand by my statement that he has a small learning curve compared to most characters, and his top tier placement may be skewed by that fact. When the B+ metagame progresses and characters start becoming "mastered," Marth may drop. But again, just speculation. He might stay right where he is at the top.

I'm well-aware that my main fits into that category too.
 
JCaesar

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I'm just that sexy that I can break the rules like that.

But seriously, I think I just got momentum-pushed off the ledge during my usmash.
 
cman

cman

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JCaesar007 said:
I'm just that sexy that I can break the rules like that.

But seriously, I think I just got momentum-pushed off the ledge during my usmash.
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You didn't even hit a shield or anything though, which means its probably new to b+, and possibly replicatible and useful. Let's do some testing on it.

And after yet another look, it doesn't even look like you were at the ledge.
 
V

VietGeek

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They took out Marth and instead made Dancing Blade and Roy separate characters.

They also added an extra option to turn B+ into vBrawl in Versus by clicking the vanilla ice cream cone. Just in case.
 
G

GameSystem

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cman, sheik never did usmash. Ganon was doing a dair and then got hit out of it. His dair makes that little star thing, same like sheik usmash. Maybe that's why you got confused.
 
Pr0phetic

Pr0phetic

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None of Marth's moves have been slowed/sped up in Brawl+ right? If so Viet you can copypasta from the guide I'ma right up on Marth's moves, just don't account for stale moves of course.
 
V

VietGeek

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RyuReiatsu said:
Anybody here would want to try changes with Marth? (TradeOffs). I'm quite curious.
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You are aware trade-offs...don't happen often right? I mean look at the latest GnW fiasco. A lot of things stick by the status quo and really even slight tweaks that are unnecessary don't filter through. Brawl+ is a lot more conservative than some people might think.

Also what/why would Marth trade-off? Other than the fact that Marth's side-B got all hdfhdfbnrsh-up

(more or less the original vBrawl functions of the move are somewhat gone; while neutral 4th is a damager as usual; 4th up was suppose to be a kill move if fresh [of course if this happened in B+ it would need to kill a lot higher %s so it would be a last-ditch kill move), and down-B was suppose to rack damage as well as punish spotdodges..although 4th D in B+ sorta does the second function anyway; it always sucked so w/e)

he still has tons of options for everything, and is really diverse and sh*t. Maybe his combos aren't Fox-worthy, but they're okay..., and maybe he can't kill worth sh*t (vBrawl weakness), but that's apparently okay too. He doesn't really need a lot of stuff to flesh him out other than some slight grab tweaking (maybe make the angle of fthrow slightly higher, uthrow speed-up, other wishlist sh*t), but I really think anything you would ask for would be turned down since they would be buffing his weaknesses or whatever.

Marth will probably get nerfed again. Other than the slight Utilt speed-up don't expect true buffs. At best you can expect "buffs" of moves that were overnerfed (although due to the stigma of Dancing Blade...I doubt you'd ever expect that to even serve all its diverse purposes as well anymore).

Rukkiko I will probably take your offer on that.
 
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