Squirtleknight is obnoxious obv :012:. - Marth+

[polyopulis]

I SH/Jump with the analog. Not with X/Y. So its harder for me. LOL.

no one really talks about what controls people use... i had a lot of trouble getting used to melee because there was little talk about controls. fast fall was my biggest problem, shffling dairs with falco was so hard.

it still shouldn't be all that hard though, analog up, analog down, c up. needs practice. im gonna go see if there is a thread i can dredge up about this...

 

[Xyro77]

LOL Xyro is being mean about it. >_<

if i want melee ill play melee

 

[GHNeko]

if i want melee ill play melee

Once again, you do NOT know what you're talking about becuase you have NOT tried the game and stubbornly REFUSE to try it. Do not call the game ANYTHING (Postitive or Negative) until you have actually picked it up and played a DECENT session of it, which does not consist of one or two matches.

It is NOT Melee. Drop the mindset.

And if you have nothing constructive to say, do NOT post in this thread, let alone this sub-forum.

 

[Shao-tan]

C. Falcon has amazing speed, can combo reasonably well and is a dangerous character in many ways. Uair juggling, dash dancing, knee of justice and such are all moves you need to be very wary. But he still suffers badly from his old problems. That means our beloved Falchion utterly destroys Falcon. Jab, Ftilt, Fair, Nair, Bairm Fsmash and others, they all have better priority and range. Watch your spacing, keep an eye on his DD mixups and you'll be racking damage very quickly. Most of Marth's attacks can nullify C. Falcon extremely well.

Uthrow can lead into Utilt+Fair combos and set up for some **** nice edgeguard, same goes to upwards DB. Talking about edgeguard, it's your main way of killing in this particular match. You have solid answers to everything Falcon can do, your Fair goes through EVERY aerial he's able to do, with increased gravity, air dodge is too dangerous in most cases because Brawl+ increased gravity and C. Falcon is a fastfaller. A Dair or Fair can easily land a hit on his upB, sealing his fate. Fsmash also works wonders, it's pure ****.

About the cons in the matchup, I don't feel like listing them in details, but it's basically the same as always when playing against C. Falcon.

He's WAY TOO FAST
Has many deadly combos
Great dash dancing

Marth completely outspaces him and kills Falcon very easily. On the other side Captain Falcon is deadly fast and has nasty combos. 65:35 imo, Marth has the control of this match, but things may get tricky if you fall too much for his mindgames. Play smart and our sophisticated womanliness will surpass his gross manliness.

 

[GHNeko]

....Basically we have to pretend that Falcon is Isai.

Dont get hit.

I'd personally say 70:30 simply because of the fact that its easy to keep falcon outside of your blade as long as you stay close to the ground and stay as lagless as possible.

By punish any of his approaches with DB, ending with DB Up, you can EASILY wrack damage, considering how he falls prey to utilts and untipped uairs. Though to be quite honest, edgeguarding might be a bit risky with falcon imo.

 

[Shao-tan]

I thought of 70:30, but I think 65:35 is more accurate. Intelligent mixups by the Falcon player may hit Marth, that's our problem. They both have deadly combos on each other, though.

I don't see why edgeguarding is risky, it's pretty safe. If you space correctly, Falcon Dive can't hit you. Edgehop Dair is an good option, too. Spike C. Falcon and get back to the stage harmless, just make sure you hit with the tip of your sword.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

I've had a question I was willing to ask.
Who, in this thread, can perform double fair without fail?

 

[GHNeko]

I can, but I stopped because the difficulty to practically ration doesnt lean far enough to the practically side imo. I stopped doing it. I prefer SH Fair > Uair/Utilt

Or just a normal SHFF Fair > Dtilt

 

[VietGeek]

Remember that any mistake Marth will pull, however little, with get punished severely in this game. Captain Falcon is an excellent punish character, and will exploit each and every small technical error you have.

One untipped fair on his shield = shieldgrab, dthrow, ****.

While Marth controls the pace of the match due to the nature of his character - quick, decent-ranged attacks, this game has a more solid punish game. Falcon also is extremely fast. Once he makes it through your walls, he'll try to overwhelm you with rushdown, mostly going for DC'd grabs and dash dancing through your aerial walls, waiting for the perfect moment to grab you in your commitment lag.

And then he'll try to knee you for those 70-90% kills due to Marth's woman weight properties.

Both characters are terribly easy to edgeguard. The nod isn't given to anyone here.

Basically, as people, we will make mistakes, and at higher levels of play, each and every mistake will be exploited dry. Falcon has the tools to provide rushdown and pressure Marth up close where Marth lacks as many safe GTFO tools, since DB can be shieldgrabbed and DS, if whiffed more or less means you will die.

It's 60-40, because unlike some characters, once he gets in, you're going to eat a lot of damage and possibly be KO'd if he knows what he's doing. The nod goes to Marth only because he has a moveset that can try to wall Falcon out and is not too bad comboing Falcon at all, due to his weight class.

 

[Finns7]

I love brawl+


Im not much of a fan of ratio stuff, and I feel its too early anyways to say its accurate at 65:35 or w/e but, to me as of now Marth has the advantage. Falcons problem is his priority everything he dishes out marth can counter with his arieals.

 

[GHNeko]

Actually, after playing Dojo's Falcon last night, I have a good glimpse of what Falcon can do. I seriously agree with 65:35, maybe even 60:40. At low percents, a dthrow to a knee at low percents with a smart edge guard can lead to an early gimp/ko for Falcon, at least I believe so.

Seriously, that speed of his can get through Marth's wall if properly timed.

 

[Veril]

Do you think its possible to combo into a footstool spike. Jigglypuff can do it. It seems like it would be **** if Marth could do that.

 

[GHNeko]

Yes. He can. You just need to be quick and precise about it.

 

[storm92]

60:40, as many of said.
For the same reasons as well.
We can combo Falcon easily, but he does the same back to us.
The main difference is we can use spacing with the sword range to play safe.
Very like the Melee match-up.

 

[Shao-tan]

I still think this matchup is 65:35.

Stick with lagless spacing tools like SHFF Fair and Jab and you should be fine. Just play smart.

One untipped fair on his shield = shieldgrab, dthrow, ****.

Fastfall your Fair and buffer a DS. Works wonders. However, this might become predictable, think before you use it.

Both characters are terribly easy to edgeguard. The nod isn't given to anyone here.

Not so true. Falcon has less options since he can't Uair Marth offstage, it's asking for a Fair right on his face. Falcon's UpB is MUCH slower than DS and it's very hard to hit Marth with, that means Marth can EG to KO with ease. Falcon has less tools, has to deal with a faster upB and has less options.

However, we need some videos to back us up.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

Well, I'd say 60:40.
You say 65:35 because of his terribly slow UpB.
Then again, he normally doesn't really sweetspot the ledge. He can get ON the stage with a lot more ease than Marth... Or am I wrong?

When we're done discussing Falcon, anybody's up for Sheik?

 

[Shao-tan]

Well, I'd say 60:40.
You say 65:35 because of his terribly slow UpB.
Then again, he normally doesn't really sweetspot the ledge. He can get ON the stage with a lot more ease than Marth... Or am I wrong?

When we're done discussing Falcon, anybody's up for Sheik?

Fsmash, keep edgeguarding.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

Fsmash, keep edgeguarding.

I thought you were talking about the both of 'em OFF ledge , misunderstood. Sorry.

 

[GHNeko]

To be quite honest, I believe falcon has more options getting back onto the stage, but has a harder time clearing the way.

Where as Marth has an easy time clearing the way back onto the stage, but his options to actually recover are limited. Fully charged SB is balls due to increased gravity.

Also, havnt you noticed that alot of Marth's attacked can be DI'd down and teched? Especially the new dolphin slash. .______.

 

[Veril]

Also, havnt you noticed that alot of Marth's attacked can be DI'd down and teched? Especially the new dolphin slash. .______.

Yes I have

I don't think its that big a deal. Its possible to do that with a lot of moves.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

Yes I have

I don't think its that big a deal. Its possible to do that with a lot of moves.

Thing is, this happens to the majority of Marth's move...

 

[GHNeko]

Thing is, this happens to the majority of Marth's move...

Exactly.

The angle, the damage output, the recovery lag, and the weakened OOS just destroyed Dolphin Slash. It cant even kill anymore until like 140%+

And that's only if its near the edge, cuz on stage, it will just send htem into the ground if they tech, you're fuuuckkeed.

Punished Nike 20's Marth a few times because of how DS is now.

 

[Desire]

Exactly.

The angle, the damage output, the recovery lag, and the weakened OOS just destroyed Dolphin Slash. It cant even kill anymore until like 140%+

And that's only if its near the edge, cuz on stage, it will just send htem into the ground if they tech, you're fuuuckkeed.

Punished Nike 20's Marth a few times because of how DS is now.

OH GOD. You agree now? **** dude.

 

[GHNeko]

OH GOD. You agree now? **** dude.

Because back then, it was good.


Now that it was nerfed, Its not so good.

 

[Veril]

Marth still has a ton of KOing options. DS is so fast that the chance of teching isn't especially high. It definitely isn't as good an OOS option now.

With the teching thing, its seriously possible to do that with a ton of moves. It was possible in vBrawl to. Just few people did it because it's generally safer to just DI normally. This isn't something really unique to Marth. I had a friend tech rest. Do I think they'll do it again? No.

 

[Shao-tan]

I thought you were talking about the both of 'em OFF ledge , misunderstood. Sorry.

I'm talking about general edgeguarding, well it doesn't matter much, it's a pretty much a guaranteed kill in every way. Falchion > Falcon Dive. Getting on the stage isn't much of an issue either, it's still retardly slow and easy to hit. Marth is easy to edgeguard too, but an proper mixup can save him from death or just sweetspot, in FD isn't that hard.

 

[Desire]

Because back then, it was good.


Now that it was nerfed, Its not so good.

Wow dude. Im not trying to start a fight here again, but thats what I said in the past. 'DS got nerfed big time guys !!one!!one'

LOL

 

[GHNeko]

...And when you said that, that was before recent changes.

Hence...

Because back then, it was good.


Now that it was nerfed, Its not so good.

DURP DURP. If you're not trying to start a fight, read what I say properly.

 

[Veril]

You guys should totally fight... with swords.

Extra points if you wear tiaras.

I've been using Marth a bunch lately. Yet... I've hated him for so long cause he's been a counter to my favorite characters. How can I reconcile this?

I think I'm gonna start finding nifty Marth combos... and how to combo Marth. I'll start posting those when my wii comes back from repairs (thursday or friday). The Footstool combos are definitely something I'm interested in.

I don't think Marth is going to start sucking now that DS got nerfed. Its not like its sing...

 

[Desire]

Wait, Melee DS? Oh god. Im staying out. PEACE PLEASE.

Anyways, have anyone tried Dtilt> SB yet? It actually works. They will either get hit or it can break sheild ( If used ) Might wanna try that junk on Jiggly

I Have trouble pulling out DB up for a kill. U smash isnt worth using anymore when %100 n up on someone fairly small, it will hit the first three DB, but it wont finish it.

another question. Uthrow> U air Juggled to me doesnt work anymore. its different on all characters and only around 20% ish. Again, Im not trolling (at least I dont think so) Just pointing stuff out. I would rather stick with F throw&back throw> DB >F air and so on.

Please tell me in not trolling. D:

<3 Desire

 

[Desire]

You guys should totally fight... with swords.

Extra points if you wear tiaras.

I've been using Marth a bunch lately. Yet... I've hated him for so long cause he's been a counter to my favorite characters. How can I reconcile this?

I think I'm gonna start finding nifty Marth combos... and how to combo Marth. I'll start posting those when my wii comes back from repairs (thursday or friday). The Footstool combos are definitely something I'm interested in.

I don't think Marth is going to start sucking now that DS got nerfed. Its not like its sing...

Whos your other 'main' character? How can you not main marth : (

Marth can be very evil. Its combo makes people throw their GC controller at Marth user. Thats how good marf is. (Yes, it happend before.)

Combos for marth is .. fairly easy for me

 

[VietGeek]

I Have trouble pulling out DB up for a kill. U smash isnt worth using anymore when %100 n up on someone fairly small, it will hit the first three DB, but it wont finish it.

Great for juggle traps. Usmash > utilt imo. It's just so sexy in this game.

Also, opening combo: fair > uair (in one SH) > usmash is 43-44% damage. Plus it sets up for juggles. I'm sorry but that's pretty **** good.

Good luck landing it on an opponent with a brain though. =/ But it's guaranteed once you land that fair unless they tech the fair (which is harder since the launch angle is 50 now, almost as high as Melee's tip fair angle).

another question. Uthrow> U air Juggled to me doesnt work anymore. its different on all characters and only around 20% ish. Again, Im not trolling (at least I dont think so) Just pointing stuff out. I would rather stick with F throw&back throw> DB >F air and so on.

Please tell me in not trolling. D:

You're trolling. It works even BETTER now since airdodges have all been reduced by 10 frames of invin. (except for Peach who already has a laggy airdodge), meaning there's a larger punish window. You're just doing it wrong.

Bthrow still sucks, if it gets DI'd you're going to eat something. Fthrow is good for guaranteed combos.

But DB doesn't really kill anyone except for the up variation. Now it is just a damage racker like it was intended in vBrawl.

Also, I would like to say they fixed Dolphin Slash's sweetspot angle now so it sends them like it did before, but just kills later and has less damage. Fine by me; it's still a dragon punch this way. ^_^

 

[GHNeko]

I wish I could replace Bthrow with fthrow. I do it out of habit because mario's bthrow is too good.

 

[Veril]

Whos your other 'main' character? How can you not main marth : (

I favor characters with either multiple jumps or exceptional recoveries. My main is Jigglypuff and always will be.

Marth is just so classy. His ability to combo is amazing, and I like the flyswatter feel of his aerials. I was worried he would end up being too good and breaking what I've viewed as the best possible result of B+ (other than fun, tech possibilities, combos and general sexiness): a robust counterpick system.

That tiara is too pimp.

Also, I would like to say they fixed Dolphin Slash's sweetspot angle now so it sends them like it did before, but just kills later and has less damage. Fine by me; it's still a dragon punch this way. ^_^

This basically sums up my feelings on the move.

 

[GHNeko]

I loved the original B+ Dolphin Slash. Fthrow to Dolphin slash that kills at 120% was hilarious. Now that ******** combo like 30% later. rofl.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

Marth still has a ton of KOing options. DS is so fast that the chance of teching isn't especially high. It definitely isn't as good an OOS option now.

With the teching thing, its seriously possible to do that with a ton of moves. It was possible in vBrawl to. Just few people did it because it's generally safer to just DI normally. This isn't something really unique to Marth. I had a friend tech rest. Do I think they'll do it again? No.

This is Brawl+, remember. The vast majority of Marth's arsenal is techable. Not really unique to Marth or not, I'm pretty sure he's the character with the most techable attacks.

I loved the original B+ Dolphin Slash. Fthrow to Dolphin slash that kills at 120% was hilarious. Now that ******** combo like 30% later. rofl.

Exactly my thoughts.

 

[Veril]

This is Brawl+, remember. The vast majority of Marth's arsenal is techable. Not really unique to Marth or not, I'm pretty sure he's the character with the most techable attacks.

That doesn't mean its important. This isn't unique to Marth, as you said. Even if it was a big problem, which it isn't, being "pretty sure" about something doesn't mean its true. In fact, I'd be surprised if it was. Zelda, Ness, etc... By that I mean, the only reason I say "I'd be surprised" instead of just outright telling you you were wrong, is that my wii is broken and I can't confirm it.

I will on Friday. Its an interesting problem, and I'm always looking for ways of dealing with Marth. Marth is ****. Keep everything in perspective here. He isn't special in regards to the tech issue.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

That doesn't mean its important. This isn't unique to Marth, as you said. Even if it was a big problem, which it isn't, being "pretty sure" about something doesn't mean its true. In fact, I'd be surprised if it was. Zelda, Ness, etc... By that I mean, the only reason I say "I'd be surprised" instead of just outright telling you you were wrong, is that my wii is broken and I can't confirm it.

I will on Friday. Its an interesting problem, and I'm always looking for ways of dealing with Marth. Marth is ****. Keep everything in perspective here. He isn't special in regards to the tech issue.

Actually, you're right. And I overreacted.
My mood playing tricks, I'm tired. I'm gonna leave this board, spamming isn't good.
Then again, I'm pretty sure Marth has more issues on his attacks being teched.
I guess I'll have to check it out when I'm done taking a nap.

EDIT: Haven't tried Beta 4.1 yet, but looking at the list... They simply Nerfed Marth even more. If somebody could try it and share how it is, that'd be appreciated.

 

[VietGeek]

EDIT: Haven't tried Beta 4.1 yet, but looking at the list... They simply Nerfed Marth even more. If somebody could try it and share how it is, that'd be appreciated.

He needs to be toned down. He's ridiculous. He's one of the most anti-aggro characters in this game. His SHFF fair has POSITIVE frame advantage on shield. That's right. He's out of lag before your opponent can even do anything.

That's ****ing scary. And imo, a little bit dumb. I think we're a little too bitter about Brawl's shieldstun.

Okay next match-up should be about Sheik. Do your stuff GHNeko. I'll be organizing the links to where Capt. Falcon started soon enough.

 

[Yingyay]

Marth wrecks sheik if he can constantly stay on her ***
Give her space to think and you might be eating a hefty combo