Squirtleknight is obnoxious obv :012:. - Marth+

[PKNintendo]

Whats all this in then?
Making Marth less fair spammy, but better and funner as character overall.

Approves topic

 

[ChaosKnight]

Wait, Marth's fsmash tipper is hard to land? I guess MD/VA Marths are too good then. Players like Meep and CK have no trouble landing tippers on a regular basis. (talking pre-size-increase of course)

are you going to woodbridge for some brawl+ action i wanna look at the changes they did to marth xD im sure kenny wouldnt mind you bringing brawl+

 

[Demacrez]

Hm, D-Smash seems a bit slow. Increase the speed of it but keep the wind-down the same. I having difficulties trying to hit the person behind me when the back hit is almost completely useless.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

are you going to woodbridge for some brawl+ action i wanna look at the changes they did to marth xD im sure kenny wouldnt mind you bringing brawl+

I thought Woodbridge hated Plus.

If JCz does bring B+ though, count me in too. It's been too long since we played mangz.

 

[JCaesar]

Nah, I got other commitments this weekend.

 

[timothyung]

Hm, D-Smash seems a bit slow. Increase the speed of it but keep the wind-down the same. I having difficulties trying to hit the person behind me when the back hit is almost completely useless.

Ah... the front hit comes out at frame 6... I agree that the back hit is kinda useless. Punish rolling... but then why not just DB. I would like two front hits instead. Oh and I love dsmash tipper now. It kills. And can the sourspot be given a slight increase on BKB?

 

[GHNeko]

Dsmash comes out 1 frame slower than MK dsmash.

You REALLY want to speed?


REALLY!!??

 

[timothyung]

I think he wants less time between first and second hit.
aka much stronger MK dsmash with much more wind down

 

[GHNeko]

So he wants Sonic's dsmash?

kk.

:V


btw, he doesn't need it. <3

 

[Demacrez]

I'm just saying, it felt slower compared to Link's by 1 or 2 frames. But if you think he doesn't need it, whom am I to say otherwise?

Edit: I was wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Just tested both Link's and Marth's D-Smash simultaniously and they both have the same speed with the exception of Marth's wind-down.

 

[GHNeko]

Lol. Go to debug or look for frame data.

imo, Link's dsmash > Marth's.

 

[Demacrez]

Lol. Go to debug or look for frame data.

imo, Link's dsmash > Marth's.

I refuse to look at a list of data... for I am lazy.

And quite true, Link's D-Smash is far superior compared to Marth's. But Link is better than Marth in all aspects of life. ^('w')^

 

[GHNeko]

Keep dreaming.

 

[Demacrez]

That's the thing, I'm awake and yet he still is. >:3

 

[GHNeko]

Then you're still dreaming.

Marth is a way better swordsman.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Leaf's Marth build is indeed sexy (though I gotta say I spent more time playing Pit, which is now a Marth counter ). He's got some pretty badass combos, but has a lot of trouble killing (unless you...learn to tip things. Then he's fine). What's more interesting is that the gravity changes make him easier to combo and gimp, making him closer to a glass cannon instead of a jack of all trades. He's got a very powerful offense, with quite a few approaches that are safe on block and yeild high rewards on hit. But on the flipside, he now gets combo'd pretty badly (almost as badly as your typical fast faller) and can't recover for **** (sounds like Falco lol, but replace lasers with a sword).

 

[Demacrez]

So, I'm completely satisfied with leaf's Marth build. I just want to know what other changes are in mind after this build. I know DB is gonna need a KB nerf (coughcoughDanglethirdstrikespikecoughcough) but I wonder what kinda nerfs are being tossed around.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Up B is gonna lose it's invincibilty, but get it's knockback returned (and the weak hit is gonna see a knockback BUFF to be something to be afraid of) so that's kind of a trade off. Other than that....Marth is done

 

[Demacrez]

Sweet, hopefully this will get my cousin to be a firm believer in Brawl+. He's been *****ing how Marth is perfect in vBrawl and he's virtually nerfed completely in +.

(BTW, he's a planker with him in vBrawl and *****ed he couldn't do it Brawl+)

 

[Finns7]

Then you're still dreaming.

Marth is a way better swordsman.

Marth and Links dsmash arnt really that good because gravity imo.

Oh and Link uses his sword for other things

(Malon, Zelda, Saira, Sheik (maybe), Ruto, Midna, Oracle games the list goes on and on buddy ;p.

Seriously though if any marths wanna test out that new one Im down, Hell I wanna test him out too I felt the old marth was seriously overated and needed a change. (OMG marth is top3 >_>)

 

[Dark Sonic]

New Marth d-smash is actually pretty ****. It's killing at melee percents (but isn't a complete ***** to tip!)

 

[ChaosKnight]

hmmm i need to play the new version of marth to see what you guys have done sounds like he gets comboed easily ??? that dosent sound too good but if his combo ability went up thats good xD cause his combo ability was superb before

 

[GHNeko]

I'd rather stick with the KB of Dolphin Slash and keep its invicibility.

I actually LIKE to recover when the majority of TX B+ players are Shieks, Falcos, Peaches, Yoshi's, Zamus, and GaWs. <_>

All of which are have reliable methods of ****ing characters with poor recoveries and half of which gimp Marth pretty bad. *coughshiekfairpeachturnipsgawfairzamustethercough*

 

[Demacrez]

hmmm i need to play the new version of marth to see what you guys have done sounds like he gets comboed easily ??? that dosent sound too good but if his combo ability went up thats good xD cause his combo ability was superb before

You mean his F-Air camping was good. Now with this build you don't have to rely on it and can actually combo U-Air or D-Air in just a few F-Air with sweet spot.

 

[VietGeek]

CK doesn't even know how to shield defensively in vBrawl. You think he can camp?

He's ALWAYS in the red. Comboing people, and punish missed techs.

<3 CK

If we patch up Uthrow to not be so ridiculous at low %s and not so useless at high %s AKA more base, lower KBG, I'd say this Marth is pretty good. As in good enough to be ported to PSA and ****.

Cuz I think we STILL don't know what to do with DB.

Since PSA can control SDI potency on DB (aka make it easier or harder to SDI), so idk what direction to take on it.

 

[GHNeko]

He's one of the few overly aggressive Marths.

 

[ChaosKnight]

You mean his F-Air camping was good. Now with this build you don't have to rely on it and can actually combo U-Air or D-Air in just a few F-Air with sweet spot.

ya but whos to say you couldnt do that before i could combo up air and all that before xD


and yes everyone is correct that i am one of the overly agressive marths but im still pretty good even though my playstyle is so called bad

 

[Dark Sonic]

If it works it works man. A playstyle isn't "bad" unless you're losing

 

[Revan Skywalker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SzW2aT_Uwk

Could you rate my Marth pls

 

[Shaya]

I hear Marf can be combo'd more easily and wants his invincibility being taken away on DS?

farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrk.

 

[Dark Sonic]

He can also combo better and has more kill moves.

 

[GHNeko]

I'd rather stick with the KB of Dolphin Slash and keep its invicibility.

I actually LIKE to recover when the majority of TX B+ players are Shieks, Falcos, Peaches, Yoshi's, Zamus, and GaWs. <_>

All of which are have reliable methods of ****ing characters with poor recoveries and half of which gimp Marth pretty bad. *coughshiekfairpeachturnipsgawfairzamustethercough*

:V

10:V+BrawlDolphinSlashPlease

aka

Let'snotmakehisrecoveryevenworse.

 

[VietGeek]

i herd u guys made marf a grass cannon. :V

also someone help me make uthrow

im too good and keep making it cg falcon cuz he keeps harassing me to show my moves

moonwalk moar plz

find other children :V

 

[Dark Sonic]

:V

10:V+BrawlDolphinSlashPlease

aka

Let'snotmakehisrecoveryevenworse.

Bigger hitbox says hi?

L2space. It's really not that big a deal (wasn't that big a deal in melee...and melee had better edgeguarders )

 

[leafgreen386]

For marth's upB, basically, this is what would happen:

- No more invincibility frames 1-4
- the strong hitbox is bigger and moved slightly behind him, giving him a reverse upB to edgeguard with again
- the rest of the hitboxes are also made slightly bigger and are given more base, along with possibly sharper angles

Basically, it completely repurposes his upB. It's no longer a move he can spam to get out of a tough situation (you would in fact be better off spamming counter, which comes out one frame earlier), and it makes some "last minute" recoveries harder. However, it now comes with a few new advantages.

First off, there's the obvious edgeguarding implications of the initial hitbox. What may not be as obvious are the edgeguarding implications of the later hitboxes. I'm not sure about you guys, but I know that on numerous occasions I've recovered as my opponent was trying to come back to the stage (usually after I had hit them with a fair or some such offstage), resulting in them getting hit by the reverse hitbox on the tip of the sword as I grabbed the ledge. This would be great for edgeguarding if it weren't for the fact that the tip has so little kb. So while it's certainly possible to plan to hit them as you recover as it is now, it doesn't usually do all that much for you, especially if you need to be too far above the ledge in order to connect with it. With more base and possibly a lower angle, this would set up for bair edgeguards, though.

Then there's the matter of making marth's upB safe on hit, which is a fairly big one. While his recovery may be bad, if you hit them with your upB, you'll be safe, due to the raised base of the later hits. Unlike now, where you can still get edgeguarded even if you hit someone. So yeah, you need a few more frames to successfully recover, but if you get those frames, you're actually even more likely to make it back than you were previously, since if your opponent botches their edgeguard, they'll get hit, without the ability to punish you for hitting them.

I've yet to code any of this, but hopefully I'll get it done soon for you all to try out.

Now that that's over with...

Viet: The secret is in the growth. You can't lower the base much more than what I did without running into CGs (falcon can in fact just jump out on my setting, although that could just end up with him getting combo'd worse if the marth reads him, so...). Really, you just need to lower the growth a little more and it should be good.

 

[Sasuke3759]

I did a quick search and didn't find anything, so sorry if this has been asked before. Just for reference, I'm using the 4.2 build.

Why can Marth still do his Dolphin Slash ledge grab trick?

I thought the reason he could do that in regular Brawl was because of the auto sweet spot ledges.

 

[timothyung]

I did a quick search and didn't find anything, so sorry if this has been asked before. Just for reference, I'm using the 4.2 build.

Why can Marth still do his Dolphin Slash ledge grab trick?

I thought the reason he could do that in regular Brawl was because of the auto sweet spot ledges.

Because the developers makes that he can grab the ledge during the startup of DS.
The no auto sweetspot code makes that if a character is rising, he cannot grab the ledge.
Marth is not rising during the sweetspot-able frames at the startup, so he can still grab the ledge

 

[jalued]

is there any chance that marths dancing blade ^ final hit can have reduced KB so that he can combo out of it? just curious as atm with the big nerf his DB got, the 4th hit up is pretty useless now

 

[GHNeko]

He can already combo out of DB 4 UP, it's just DI/Character/% specific. @_@

Also, is there no more feedback on the marth released by me and leaf? Chances are it might get into the next nightly and I'd hope for us to get more feedback before so.

 

[VietGeek]

I have feedback Neko:

I'm gonna CG your Falcon.

Also who wants to make DS an offensive move and **** like Leaf wanted? =V