So I guess ICs are "S Tier" now :) / :( ?

[Hylian]

Vex, snoom, band, hylian, lain, swordgard, meep, give me your YouTube account names

Hylian88

<skfhbslkjd

 

[00-Zero]

psh, gimr, I wanna be included too XP
so uh, bandxaid702 if you wanna add me as I did a lot of my own stuff on it back when it first got big

 

[The Truth!]

If it werent for the teleporting it probably wouldnt be too susceptible to banning. Since it does...I find items and janky stages to be less obtrusive then teleports. Also if you squall intentionally into a projectile youll probably find it hard to argue that the opponent was at fault; determining whether it was intentional or not is another story though, lol.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

If it werent for the teleporting it probably wouldnt be too susceptible to banning. Since it does...I find items and janky stages to be less obtrusive then teleports. Also if you squall intentionally into a projectile youll probably find it hard to argue that the opponent was at fault; determining whether it was intentional or not is another story though, lol.

It's not random or broken, the only time teleporting can happen if basically when only sopo can fight, and you can just abuse sopo for being bad if your not using a garbage character, so he can't force u into a position to teleport.

And it's ur opponents fault for shooting a projectile.

 

[GimR]

If I ever do this in tourney and the teleport glitch begins then I'm just killing myself

 

[Gea]

And it's ur opponents fault for shooting a projectile.

Wait wait wait, let me use your reasoning here. Ahem:

And it's your fault for getting hit by the projectile.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Wait wait wait, let me use your reasoning here. Ahem:

And it's your fault for getting hit by the projectile.

Nope, sorry.

 

[Gea]

You would still be the one to trigger the glitch. Accidentally triggering a glitch would still place the blame on you. Just like accidentally pausing, or accidentally freeze glitching in Melee with ICs, etc. Just because you don't feel like it's valid doesn't mean TOs will agree with you there. But right now it isn't banned at most tournaments so have at it.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

You would still be the one to trigger the glitch. Accidentally triggering a glitch would still place the blame on you. Just like accidentally pausing, or accidentally freeze glitching in Melee with ICs, etc. Just because you don't feel like it's valid doesn't mean TOs will agree with you there. But right now it isn't banned at most tournaments so have at it.

Except it shouldn't be banned in the first place, it's not broken. If you believe it's broken do not give me the option of triggering it by shooting projectiles.

 

[Gea]

All I'm saying if it gets banned, you're going to be the one at fault for triggering it. You don't have to try to preach to me about this or that.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

All I'm saying if it gets banned, you're going to be the one at fault for triggering it. You don't have to try to preach to me about this or that.

I just won't go to tournaments where its banned (smirk)

 

[Gea]

Well then if it becomes widely banned, I guess that means you'll be retiring? Who knows how this will all blow over in the end.

 

[phi1ny3]

update: tested it, fusion confirmed for Ness/Lucas upB

didn't get around to aerials/other specials for them though :\

 

[Vex Kasrani]

update: tested it, fusion confirmed for Ness/Lucas upB

didn't get around to aerials/other specials for them though :\

I tested that like an hour ago.

And Lucas's nair activates fusion

 

[phi1ny3]

I tested that like an hour ago.

And Lucas's nair activates fusion

rofl fml

now all we need is something against ROB, that's a problem MU for me lol...

 

[toobusytocare]

rofl fml

now all we need is something against ROB, that's a problem MU for me lol...

maybe his side B?

or fsmash. fsmash has electric properties, doesnt it?

 

[EverAlert]

You would still be the one to trigger the glitch. Accidentally triggering a glitch would still place the blame on you. Just like accidentally pausing, or accidentally freeze glitching in Melee with ICs, etc. Just because you don't feel like it's valid doesn't mean TOs will agree with you there.

"You're allowed to Side B, but not during the particular 1/60th of a second that would cause a fusion" doesn't sound like a very enforceable rule to me. If a rule is not enforceable, then it shouldn't be a rule in the first place. Fusion also happens to not be broken: a rule isn't even warranted, nevermind it being enforceable. I don't know the full situation, but I do not believe such a rule will catch on. People in general are better than that, it's the same reason we haven't seen a widespread MK ban.

I don't even know if you think there should be a rule or not (I haven't read the full discussion), I just figured this was as good a post as any to respond to with my opinion lol.

Sometimes, a tactic can be hard to detect. If you can’t reliably detect something, you certainly can’t enforce penalties on it. In a fighting game, a trick might make a move invulnerable that shouldn’t be, but actually detecting every time the trick is used might be nearly impossible. Or consider a real-time strategy game, where a trick might give your units a few more hit points than normal, but again, detecting this might be nearly impossible in a real game. If something is to be banned from tournament play, it must be reasonably easy to identify when it happens or to prevent it from ever happening at all.

Also in a fighting game, a move might be “unfairly” unblockable, but only when that move is executed in a certain situation with precise 1/60th of a second timing. Did the player execute it during that “unfair” time window? Or 1/60th of a second late? Perhaps he accidentally executed the move at the unfair time through sheer luck. Is he to be penalized? Imagine trying to enforce a rule that states “You may usually use move X, but there’s 1/60th of a second where you may not use move X.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-should-be-banned.html

I'll just leave this here...

 

[The Truth!]

No one said fusion is broken, only the teleporting thats random and stupid.

If you believe it's broken do not give me the option of triggering it by shooting projectiles.

lol.

Who has ultimate responsibility? The person initiating the optional 'trigger'.

 

[EverAlert]

Hey cut me some slack, I can only assume, there's been a lot of "hurr broken banned durr" on the skype chat.

 

[swordgard]

No one said fusion is broken, only the teleporting thats random and stupid.

lol.

Who has ultimate responsibility? The person initiating the optional 'trigger'.

Peaches turnip pull is random and stupid. So if gaw sideb. Ban?


Define why it needs to be banned, being random is not a good reason, nor is being "stupid". Is it overpowered? Does it produce results which do not take skill into account? Can you stall infinitely with it?

 

[The Truth!]

If you can produce an argument for me as to why items and stages with double permanent walk offs should be banned, Ill be happy to give you good reasons.

 

[GimR]

If you can produce an argument for me as to why items and stages with double permanent walk offs should be banned, Ill be happy to give you good reasons.

you're the affirming party which means you have to prove why you think it should be banned. Stages and ITems have nothing to do with fusion

 

[The Truth!]

Humor me and Ill throw something together. Otherwise its not worth bothering

 

[GimR]

Humor me and Ill throw something together. Otherwise its not worth bothering

IT's not worth bothering for me to humor you

 

[Rubberbandman]

In other words, you don't have any/enough evidence to warrant a ban.

Why? Because it really hasn't had much appearance in tournament.

Stuff that has to be done on frame 1 usually won't see much light. (see: Super Wavedashing)

 

[Gea]

Super Wavedashing was used lots in tournaments. It's not even hard to do consistently.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

The teleporting isn't even that random.

 

[swordgard]

If you can produce an argument for me as to why items and stages with double permanent walk offs should be banned, Ill be happy to give you good reasons.

Items are not banned, its an ingame switch, thus like any setting can be turned off or on while still playing the game.


You also assume I am against those things. I actually don't mind walkoffs unless the game overcentralizes around these, but there is a lack of tourney evidence for that. I am actually for having items in game to a certain degree, I want more testing to be done though. But items are a preference, because there is an in game option.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRIGu_i19MU&feature=sub

0:34

 

[GimR]

I know this is probably already know but if you time it right you can cancel about 1/2 of you ice block lag by landing on platforms right as the ice block comes out.

So you basically need to drop through the platform and do it or jump from beneath the platform and do it

 

[meepxzero]

you guys are wasting ur time.... when you can be practicing dem cgz lol.

 

[swordgard]

you guys are wasting ur time.... when you can be practicing dem cgz lol.

You are wasting time by writing this when you could be practicing them chaingrabs.

 

[meepxzero]

true lol id rather practice shtl with fox tho =\

 

[Teh Future]

me+hylian+lain on livestream tomorrow

i probably wont get far enough to get on tho mad amount of people going to this.

check it out if you are not busy tho Lains gonna wreck shugo atomsk ally callin it nao =D

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/tko727

 

[Rubberbandman]

TK is streaming for the tourney? Sweeeeet.

 

[RATED]

you guys are wasting ur time.... when you can be practicing dem cgz lol.

*high fives*

--------------------------

a question: I am practicing the CGs with character with pretty different weight size Snake/MK/Lucario/Peach

is that good?

 

[Rubberbandman]

Learn all weights. Mix it up between mids, lights, and heavies so you don't get too accustomed to one cg style and *** up.

That is all. Dismissed.

 

[Smoom77]

 

[RATED]

Learn all weights. Mix it up between mids, lights, and heavies so you don't get too accustomed to one cg style and *** up.

That is all. Dismissed.

I am learning all the weights if you look at the characters, Heavy weight(snake) , Mid/high ( lucario) light (mk) and I need to practice against a floaty char so I may CG practice against Peach.

thanks.

 

[Rubberbandman]

"Floaty" would specify their fast fall speed, not their weight.

Fast fall speed doesn't matter unless its SoPo CGing.