So I guess ICs are "S Tier" now :) / :( ?

[Hylian]

I think IC's win by a good amount. I've played pretty much every olimar in the US at some point and beaten them all.

Desynched blizzard IS that great, you just have to know how to space it well. You can stop the purple pikmen with blizzard and if he down-b's through he should get grabbed lol. You can advance with blizzard and retreat it when you need to for spacing at the same time.

 

[Vinnie]

I agree with everything Hylian said. Also about purple pikmin, Richbrown too TWO of my stocks before I even gave him 60%, on frigate, because he started the match with 2 purple pikmin -.- but after I took his stock, I made a comeback because I didn't even give him breathing room to pluck more purples.

 

[GimR]

I think IC's win by a good amount. I've played pretty much every olimar in the US at some point and beaten them all.

Desynched blizzard IS that great, you just have to know how to space it well. You can stop the purple pikmen with blizzard and if he down-b's through he should get grabbed lol. You can advance with blizzard and retreat it when you need to for spacing at the same time.

No you see, he waits for the blizzard and then chucks the pikmen onto your head


All he has to do is wait for Popo to blizzard and then punish since Nana has limited options because of her gravity thing and the fact that she can't turn around

 

[Hylian]

No you see, he waits for the blizzard and then chucks the pikmen onto your head


All he has to do is wait for Popo to blizzard and then punish since Nana has limited options because of her gravity thing and the fact that she can't turn around

I'm not quite sure what you mean. You can just have the other climber nair away purples or just blizzard them with the other climbers or actually space it instead of just doing blizzards for no reason. Many olimars think you can grab and usmash out of blizzard but you can't if the IC player spaces it correctly.

 

[Vinnie]

desynch blizzard
nair attached pikmin
wait for rolls/jumps
shffnair under platforms

also if you have him trapped on the ledge, he doesn't really have safe options to get back onto the stage (see: 2nd kill in youtube video I linked).

 

[GimR]

But while Popo's blizzarding Nana has limited mobility so she can't really move that far forward. I"m assuming you're approaching with blizzard correct? cause if not then he can just throw pikmen while you blizzard in place.

You guys need to give me some credit. I play the 1st or 2nd best Olimar once or twice a week. We're both steadily progressing the meta game of the match up.

 

[Vinnie]

But while Popo's blizzarding Nana has limited mobility so she can't really move that far forward. I"m assuming you're approaching with blizzard correct? cause if not then he can just throw pikmen while you blizzard in place.

You guys need to give me some credit. I play the 1st or 2nd best Olimar once or twice a week. We're both steadily progressing the meta game of the match up.

I've played that same Olimar in two sets. Whether he sandbagged or not >_>... and I've played rich in two sets, and I've played dabuz in THREE SETS, I mean I know what I'm talking about too. And btw I'm not trying to discredit what you're saying, or you as a player GIMR, because you're really great :D. I'm just stating what I've experienced in the match-up with multiple top players.

 

[Teh Future]

vinnie and hylian seem to be really good at pressuring olimar close up WITHOUT blizzard, which i dont' understand at all. everytime i am close to olimar i loose a stock

 

[Dabuz]

I've played that same Olimar in two sets. Whether he sandbagged or not >_>... and I've played rich in two sets, and I've played dabuz in THREE SETS, I mean I know what I'm talking about too. And btw I'm not trying to discredit what you're saying, or you as a player GIMR, because you're really great :D. I'm just stating what I've experienced in the match-up with multiple top players.

i have not much ic experience and that is my one bad MU, you fighting me means nothing with ixs

 

[Vinnie]

i have not much ic experience and that is my one bad MU, you fighting me means nothing with ixs

But you three stock Cheese every time >.>

 

[GimR]

My point is that the fact that Me and Logic have played so much is the reason he's beaten players like Lain and Meep. He knows the match up very well and he destroys me when I desync blizzard. I am timing it correctly. you guys don't realize how open you make yourself when popo is blizzarding during the desync. This isn't theory craft. This is real experience

 

[Smoom77]

I agree with GIMR more.

 

[kackamee]

But you three stock Cheese every time >.>

LOL. That made me laugh.

My point is that the fact that Me and Logic have played so much is the reason he's beaten players like Lain and Meep. He knows the match up very well and he destroys me when I desync blizzard. I am timing it correctly. you guys don't realize how open you make yourself when popo is blizzarding during the desync. This isn't theory craft. This is real experience

And yes to this. I'm 99.9%(pretty much literally) positive Olimar CAN grab you and hit you with Yellow pikmin if you approach with desynched blizzard. So can Marth, So can MK, so can alot of characters. I'm definitely not trying to say Desynched blizzards are bad, but they are not as great in alot of matchups as people seem to think.

 

[Dabuz]

LEETPENGUIN (VINNIE), i also pause at the beginning of a match and not get forfeit :] but seriously, cheese doesn't do the MU right



also, GIMR, can you give examples, its hard to just say "you are open when you desynch blizzard" without giving some examples or saying why olimar can get through it

 

[Punishment Divine]

Olimar can do absolutely nothing to spaced, desynched blizzards.

He can throw a purple at you. Okay, you hit me with a purple. Now let me go back to forcing you toward the ledge, and eventually a really bad spot while you can't do anything to my flailing sheets of ice.

He can also whistle through it. "HEY GUYS OLIMAR IS JUMPING AT MY BLIZZARD WALL WTF IS HE A MADMAN?" Just grab it because it's extremely easy to read.

Olimar can land VERY little damage on Ice Climbers before he's:

A) Forced onto the ledge (LOLOL)

B) Forced to jump (ALMOST as lol)

C) Forced to try and whistle through it, where you grab him. Why does no one grab Olimar out of his Whistle? Does no one know you can?

If you think Olimar can get through Blizzard wall, I suggest trying to space with your characters more instead of trying to run up and grab people.

Kthxbai

/whatvinniereallywantedtosaybutistooniceto

EDIT: Also GIMR it's really rude to say that Logic is the 1st or 2nd best Olimar...Rick Brown and Dabuz's achievements are better and that's only the US, you saying he's better than Brood? lol

 

[kackamee]

^ What? How...nothing.

Olimar CAN PIVOT GRAB YOU OUT OF DESYNCHED BLIZZARD. And if he hits you with a purple, that just gives him something to follow up on, so don't get hit by purples. He can even poke you with a yellow or purple fair out of desynched blizzard.

 

[Punishment Divine]

^ What? How...nothing.

Olimar CAN PIVOT GRAB YOU OUT OF DESYNCHED BLIZZARD. And if he hits you with a purple, that just gives him something to follow up on, so don't get hit by purples.

If you're getting Pivot grabbed out of blizzard, you're doing it very wrong. In fact, I love it when Olimar tries to pivot grab my ICs because it puts him closer to the ledge where I **** him mega hard, bareback

Also wtf at you getting hit with purple lets him follow up. You have a whole other Ice Climber to hit them and if he hits both then you just keep walling him, getting closer and closer (while SPACING) and next time he throws a Monique just hit it away.

you have to THINK in this matchup, but when you do it's VERY ****ing terrible for Olimar

 

[kackamee]

Noooo. 9/10 times, him pivot grabbing you will get him in a better position. Either he will grab Nana or grab Popo right? Well

If he grabs Popo: Nana will slide forward and hit him with the blizzard and he will take minimal damgage, and he can follow up with many things, hitting BOTH your climbers OR separating them out of the dropped grab on Popo.

If he grabs Nana: He can do whatever he wants, to Nana while your blizzard is ending. By that time your separated and in a position you don't want to be in.


Or he can just fair you.

 

[Punishment Divine]

Noooo. 9/10 times, him pivot grabbing you will get him in a better position. Either he will grab Nana or grab Popo right? Well

If he grabs Popo: Nana will slide forward and hit him with the blizzard and he will take minimal damgage, and he can follow up with many things, hitting BOTH your climbers OR separating them out of the dropped grab on Popo.

If he grabs Nana: He can do whatever he wants, to Nana while your blizzard is ending. By that time your separated and in a position you don't want to be in.


Or he can just fair you.

or

you think

and time your blizzard so it hits his pivot grab lol

the ***** has no grab armor frames

you have to know when to space away and go deep with blizzard based on what he's doing

and no he can't fair you cause you just stop blizzarding when he jumps at you and **** him for getting in your personal space bc olimar sucks bad up close

to describe how you space in this matchup is almost impossible for me to explain but if you just react you **** oli lol

 

[kackamee]

But then he can wait. And time his pivot grab so that it hits your blizzard. And usually that works better for Oli than for us because he is just sitting there waiting for the time to pivot grab. Even Lain said Oli can pivot grab you out of blizzard.
Pretty much the way I see it is; if you wanna desynch blizzard him, he has to already be on the ledge.
But I has to go to beds D: Good night.

 

[meepxzero]

I 2 stocked meeps Icies with G&W last time we played in tourney. He needs to learn the match up

i just played bad that one game and didnt expect you to mash out at the 5 grabs i landed on you -_- Do that MU again in tourney well see who wins or your ics can get two stocked to my fox all day ;D

olimar vs ic is probably even. Blizzard wall is effective if you use it to pressure him.

Its the same idea with DDD vs IC. You use blizzard desynches to push DDD off stage, but if DDD or olimar knows the match up better hope to *** they dont grab you cuz that bish is gonna die regardless.

You guys should probably discuss strats to beating falcos. I see dehf beating every 2ndary ic main and to be honest since my crewmate picked up falco hes been giving me trouble. I feel like a perfect falco can beat ics to be honest. Lasers to over b is fast and broken.

 

[l!nk_aut]

olimar can grab you out of motherfudghing blizzard.

 

[Hylian]

Yes, we all know Olimar can grab you out of blizzard, but he can't if you SPACE it correctly. Or you can you know..let yourself be grabbed and IB at the same time which gives you a free grab. Or you can jump and squall with single climber which pulls them into the blizzard. Or just IB. Or anything you want because it only pivot grabs you if you are jumping forwards. Moves can't beat you if you bait them. And IC's can't be baited if you are only doing something with one climber, you always can have open options.

 

[GimR]

punishment divine: after like 50% the purple pikmen hits you to the ground forcing you to tech. Also his F-smash, etc. out ranges what your Nana can do so saying "I can just hit him with Nana when he tries to follow up" IS theorycraft because you're making assumptions with out actually trying it in a real match. Everything you're saying sounds correct "In Theory" but when you try it in an actual match it won't work.

@Meep: that's why I said you need to learn the match up. I feel like you would beat my G&W if you knew it better. Also I beat your fox in tourney and you beat me at 12:00 AM while playing friendlies. I wasn't trying to insult you.

@ Dabuz: When approaching with Blizzard the top of the ice climbers head is open. If you attack Nana while she's blizzarding Popo can punish you easily because of his mobility, if you attack Popo while he's blizzarding you can punish fairly well because of Nana's lack of mobility. If I were you I would throw Purples at his head and then follow up when it hits and go super aggressive. Try to separate them and then destroy them. Olimar ***** solo popo and solo Nana. Also if you get them to grab the ledge just keep forward smashing so the pikmen go barely off the ledge, they will get hit and can't do anything about it lol.


@Hylian. You know how you can hit people when they grab you? You can't do this to Olimar you know why? When Olimar grabs popo NAna freaks out. I think it's beacuse you slide over to him. She dashes towards olimar and then does her slow turn around animation(Or something like that). So he can just grab you and quickly throw you in the opposite direction while Nana's freaking out and then attack Nana to separate you. Plus his throws are very fast so even if he grabs Nana it's really hard to punish him.


also I meant 1st or seoncd best in the US

 

[r3d d09]

Enough with the blizzard wall. if that's all you're doing to a olimar. no wonder you're losing. change stuff up. outplay them. don't out gay them.

 

[toobusytocare]

i just played bad that one game and didnt expect you to mash out at the 5 grabs i landed on you -_- Do that MU again in tourney well see who wins or your ics can get two stocked to my fox all day ;D

olimar vs ic is probably even. Blizzard wall is effective if you use it to pressure him.

Its the same idea with DDD vs IC. You use blizzard desynches to push DDD off stage, but if DDD or olimar knows the match up better hope to *** they dont grab you cuz that bish is gonna die regardless.

You guys should probably discuss strats to beating falcos. I see dehf beating every 2ndary ic main and to be honest since my crewmate picked up falco hes been giving me trouble. I feel like a perfect falco can beat ics to be honest. Lasers to over b is fast and broken.

i agree falco is gay to fight against <_<

also i hope you aren't trying to say that ICs v D3 is even D:

 

[kackamee]

Yes, we all know Olimar can grab you out of blizzard, but he can't if you SPACE it correctly. Or you can you know..let yourself be grabbed and IB at the same time which gives you a free grab. Or you can jump and squall with single climber which pulls them into the blizzard. Or just IB. Or anything you want because it only pivot grabs you if you are jumping forwards. Moves can't beat you if you bait them. And IC's can't be baited if you are only doing something with one climber, you always can have open options.

I dunno why, but I guess it's never occurred to me to try that. Are you sure stuff like that works?


Also yeah. I do agree that Falco is harder then most of us think now. I was playing against Kadaj's Falco, and he learned to do that thing that Rain does where you run off the ledge and double lazer. That is the most annoying thing ever. And it's really safe. If you combine that with Falco's keepaway game, I think Falco vs IC's is about 45:55

 

[DEHF]

ICs vs D3 is even

 

[kackamee]

ICs vs D3 is even

I was rooting for you to win MLG Raleigh.

Just Sayin.

 

[toobusytocare]

no top d3 player plays d3 in the matchup larry....
its easily in ICs favor once the ICs knows it because all D3 can try to do is grab, ftilt, and bair (when off stage) and the first two are easily countered and can get him grabbed.

if he gets ICs offstage it gets really dumb but its actually pretty easy to stay on stage with ICs in this MU

oh i forgot his dair camping... its bad, lol.

 

[DEHF]

I was rooting for you to win MLG Raleigh.

Just Sayin.

<3

no top d3 player plays d3 in the matchup larry....
its easily in ICs favor once the ICs knows it because all D3 can try to do is grab, ftilt, and bair (when off stage) and the first two are easily countered and can get him grabbed.

if he gets ICs offstage it gets really dumb but its actually pretty easy to stay on stage with ICs in this MU

oh i forgot his dair camping... its bad, lol.

D3's pivot grab ***** ICs, plus ftilt beats out their blizzard and Ice block approach. If ICs are seperated all D3 has to do is kill nana with bair or an f smash.

 

[Choice]

i heard some japanese believe its in d3 favor because of inhale. if d3 ever gets stock advantage then its over pretty much.

 

[r3d d09]

i heard some japanese believe its in d3 favor because of inhale. if d3 ever gets stock advantage then its over pretty much.

a decent ddd player tried this on me in arizona last year. i blonde rolled so he inhaled nana and he lost a stock. Inhale = bad against ic's.

 

[Choice]

if he's a stock up and inhales nana, then when he comes back he ***** popo. cg -> edge then grab release and gimp. then once again, he's a stock up.

 

[Teh Future]

D3 can definitely beat ICs, but i wouldn't go so far as to say its even

 

[swordgard]

Toobusytocare, you seem to forget vex beat meep using d3.


6-4 ics though.

 

[toobusytocare]

<3


D3's pivot grab ***** ICs, plus ftilt beats out their blizzard and Ice block approach. If ICs are seperated all D3 has to do is kill nana with bair or an f smash.

uhhh dont approach desynced then? if ICs power shield ftilt its a free stock, not to mention you can just squall over it (squall is actually hilariously good vs D3) and i dont think pivot grabs can truly "****" anyone because to be hit by a pivot grab you have to be approaching them as they retreat (also why i think wario beats ICs, different subject though). And if D3 lands a grab EVER you can use the free climber to blizzard or jab (which can get you a grab) because D3's pummel is too slow to knock the other climber away fast enough to throw.

also D3 is not good at keeping ICs separated, he's too fat lol. And D3 wont use bair on a separated nana, the best thing they can do is throw the ICs around and try to land the fsmash on nana (which you can just shoot an IB at in most cases because that **** takes forever to hit)

all d3 really has is a really good edgeguarding game vs ICs, but he has no good way to get them offstage.

 

[swordgard]

uhhh dont approach desynced then? if ICs power shield ftilt its a free stock, not to mention you can just squall over it (squall is actually hilariously good vs D3) and i dont think pivot grabs can truly "****" anyone because to be hit by a pivot grab you have to be approaching them as they retreat (also why i think wario beats ICs, different subject though). And if D3 lands a grab EVER you can use the free climber to blizzard or jab (which can get you a grab) because D3's pummel is too slow to knock the other climber away fast enough to throw.

also D3 is not good at keeping ICs separated, he's too fat lol. And D3 wont use bair on a separated nana, the best thing they can do is throw the ICs around and try to land the fsmash on nana (which you can just shoot an IB at in most cases because that **** takes forever to hit)

all d3 really has is a really good edgeguarding game vs ICs, but he has no good way to get them offstage.

Your theorycrafting impresses me.


Except it doesn't exactly work that way.


You can't run PS ftilt unless your fairly far, which means dedede could have just walked closer.

 

[toobusytocare]

this isnt theory craft
this is from every d3 ive played (which is most of the WC d3 players)

also i forgot to add that if D3 tries to inhale that you can also just jab, blizzard, dsmash, fsmash, or anything to free the other climber or you can just NOT get hit by it and simply roll behind it and grab or blizzard/IB right into it to try for the grab.

ALSO if you land a squall its almost always a free uair which leads to a few more because d3 is so massive

ALSOOOO single popo isnt completely useless vs D3, he can CG him to ridiculously high percents and your moveset in general seems to do alright vs him...

and one more thing! i was playing kismet in friendlies at Raleigh and after a couple matches he turns to me and is like "so you're swordgard right?" XD
i wish i were even that good haha

 

[Choice]

its really hard to grab an inhaling d3. he has like a windhitbox behind him and if you roll behind while he's near the edge it'll push you off.