Snake Q&A

[Ken Neth]

I don't really mind FD anymore against falco. Now that I can chaingrab falco it's fun to get revenge and chaingrab him across the stage every chance I get.

Weird random fact: On smashville, Snake's grenades can hit people who are going under the stage THROUGH the stage and stage spike them. It's too good. Grenade's range is broken.

 

[Black_Heretic]

I know its not really bad, but you **** him more elsewhere so take the advantages you can get

 

[Ken Neth]

Yeah, that's true. If it has to be one neutral and one cp, then get rid of FD for your neutral. If not, I'd get rid of another stupid cp like japes, or Castle Siege if you're fighting a DDD.

 

[OmniOstrich]

I've been thinking that snake has some really great tools to do mixups, and that nobody ever really does much of it. I would like some help testing to see if any of these work, I think some really good mixups could help snakes metagame a lot.

Basic Combo Starters (Zomg with snake?)
Everyone knows (I think) that Snakes Jab and Ftilt can both cancel into each other, and also that they can cancel into either a dash grab or a boosted pivot grab. Recently the Dair pummel discovery adds another move that can be mixed in with all this.

To get you started:
Jab+Ftilt+Ftilt
Ftilt+AAA
Jab+Ftilt+Grab
Jab+Ftilt+Dair pummel+Ftilt+Grab
Ftilt+AA+Ftilt+Dair pummel+AAA
etc, etc.

I wonder if we can't use Jab/Ftilt cancels into a C4 stick. If thats possible then imagine going Filt+AA+Ftilt+Grab>Dthrow+Ftilt+C4 stick. If you hit them with a grenade or Utilt after that you could kill some lighter characters.

If others could please test this with me I would really appreciate it. I will be recording with my crewmates tomorrow and will post videos if these are true combos.

 

[misterpimp5757]

please answer omni's question too while i post this one.

ok i saw how you can CG falco across FD with air release boost grab. so today i went into training to do it and did an excellent job on it. i kept doing it to falco and then i played an actual match and didnt do so well. but anyways lets get to the point. i was training against comp. and i tried to snake dash but....i did a regular dash grab. i tried again and 10 more times but no snake dash. so....i went to training and had to snake dash for at least 30 minutes. i have the controls back and when havokk first opened the boost grab thread i did it like 2 months ago and i lost my snakedash and i was sooo mad i was smashing my GC on the ground but i had it back and then it happened to me again but i didnt smash my GC lolz.

so i ask. did this happen to anybody else? WTF is wrong with me???

EDIT: Ken neth and syx (i remembered lolz) you guys look the same too me idk i think its the picture or something i feel like you guys are the same.

and i want to see you guys face each other soooo bad. idk i just wanted to share with you guys.

 

[Ken Neth]

I've been thinking that snake has some really great tools to do mixups, and that nobody ever really does much of it. I would like some help testing to see if any of these work, I think some really good mixups could help snakes metagame a lot.

Basic Combo Starters (Zomg with snake?)
Everyone knows (I think) that Snakes Jab and Ftilt can both cancel into each other, and also that they can cancel into either a dash grab or a boosted pivot grab. Recently the Dair pummel discovery adds another move that can be mixed in with all this.

To get you started:
Jab+Ftilt+Ftilt
Ftilt+AAA
Jab+Ftilt+Grab
Jab+Ftilt+Dair pummel+Ftilt+Grab
Ftilt+AA+Ftilt+Dair pummel+AAA
etc, etc.

I wonder if we can't use Jab/Ftilt cancels into a C4 stick. If thats possible then imagine going Filt+AA+Ftilt+Grab>Dthrow+Ftilt+C4 stick. If you hit them with a grenade or Utilt after that you could kill some lighter characters.

If others could please test this with me I would really appreciate it. I will be recording with my crewmates tomorrow and will post videos if these are true combos.

The opponent can get out of the ftilt to jab, unless it trips them which is pretty rare. If they couldn't, then jab>ftilt>jab>ftilt>etc would be an infinite since you can always get a ftilt from a jab if you time it right. So if you hit with the ftilt>jab then it's probably because they weren't expecting it or the ftilt tripped them.

The same goes to the rest of the combos after ftilt. Unless it trips them, I'm pretty sure they could get out of them. I can't check right now cause my wii is in my car and I'm too lazy to go get it

The jab>ftilt is the only true combo you have in that list.

so i ask. did this happen to anybody else? WTF is wrong with me???

EDIT: Ken neth and syx (i remembered lolz) you guys look the same too me idk i think its the picture or something i feel like you guys are the same.

and i want to see you guys face each other soooo bad. idk i just wanted to share with you guys.

What probably happened to you is that since the muscle memories for both of them are pretty similar, but not the same, your muscle memory confuses the two and you end up messing one of them up. You just need to keep practicing, and make sure that you don't do one for a long time by itself. Do them both one right after the other till you can do both of them perfectly.

And about fighting Syx, I don't fight on wifi so we'd have to fight in person. Syx, you should totally get a carpool to go to SK92's tourney on March 21st. Utah's going, so then we'll be able to fight

 

[Shadow_of_Link]

I've been thinking that snake has some really great tools to do mixups, and that nobody ever really does much of it. I would like some help testing to see if any of these work, I think some really good mixups could help snakes metagame a lot.

Basic Combo Starters (Zomg with snake?)
Everyone knows (I think) that Snakes Jab and Ftilt can both cancel into each other, and also that they can cancel into either a dash grab or a boosted pivot grab. Recently the Dair pummel discovery adds another move that can be mixed in with all this.

To get you started:
Jab+Ftilt+Ftilt
Ftilt+AAA
Jab+Ftilt+Grab
Jab+Ftilt+Dair pummel+Ftilt+Grab
Ftilt+AA+Ftilt+Dair pummel+AAA
etc, etc.

I wonder if we can't use Jab/Ftilt cancels into a C4 stick. If thats possible then imagine going Filt+AA+Ftilt+Grab>Dthrow+Ftilt+C4 stick. If you hit them with a grenade or Utilt after that you could kill some lighter characters.

If others could please test this with me I would really appreciate it. I will be recording with my crewmates tomorrow and will post videos if these are true combos.

It's possible to shield/dodge in between each ftilt/jab/grab (unless it's jab to ftilt or grab), so the chances of that happening are really low. Unless you could pull some major mindgames, lol.

please answer omni's question too while i post this one.

ok i saw how you can CG falco across FD with air release boost grab. so today i went into training to do it and did an excellent job on it. i kept doing it to falco and then i played an actual match and didnt do so well. but anyways lets get to the point. i was training against comp. and i tried to snake dash but....i did a regular dash grab. i tried again and 10 more times but no snake dash. so....i went to training and had to snake dash for at least 30 minutes. i have the controls back and when havokk first opened the boost grab thread i did it like 2 months ago and i lost my snakedash and i was sooo mad i was smashing my GC on the ground but i had it back and then it happened to me again but i didnt smash my GC lolz.

so i ask. did this happen to anybody else? WTF is wrong with me???

I've had that happen, but not as bad. At worst, I accidentally grabbed a few times in a real match. It's prolly muscle memory screwing with you or something.

 

[Black_Heretic]

And about fighting Syx, I don't fight on wifi so we'd have to fight in person. Syx, you should totally get a carpool to go to SK92's tourney on March 21st. Utah's going, so then we'll be able to fight

I never do wifi, waste of my time lol

the 21st is the next CGC biweekly which is much easier to get to (and I don't know who I'd ride with)

Guess that its on at Genesis XD

also, wtf with wanting me to fight Ken? Nobody knows if I'm actually good at this game yet lol

also, who'd get red Snake? I so call it

 

[Ken Neth]

If I'm still around by the time Genesis comes around...

I know how to hack. We'll both be red snake

 

[Black_Heretic]

lol, I just remembered that I know that trick too XD

I've only ever used it for Fabulous Falcon dittos though

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Just wondering.

Say you do this: Perform 1st hit of the ftilt. You do not immediately connect with the 2nd hit of the tilt. You are using this time to tell if they got hit or not. If they do get hit do you still have time to perform the 2nd hit before they regain control? Or do you have to immediatly hit with the 2nd part in order for the true combo?

 

[Ken Neth]

You can have a slight delay in between hits. It can't be very long though.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I'm not talking like enough time that you pass the frame window to which you input the 2nd hit. I mean maybe like 10 frames at most maybe.

 

[Ken Neth]

I know. You can wait long enough to where you can still do the second ftilt and they can get out of it. You have a small pause where you can hesitate to see if you hit them, but it's not very big.

I have no idea how many frames you have, I just go by instinct.

 

[misterpimp5757]

is uair supposed to be used for DI when you are launched up now?

bcuz now DSF and 9B are doing it.

 

[Black_Heretic]

I use uair for horizontal knockback and dair for vertical, maybe its just habit for them

 

[Ken Neth]

If you are launched up you should do a dair if it might kill you. Dair fast falls automatically, so you live to higher percentages.

But if you know the move isn't going to kill you and you're just doing a move to get control of yourself faster, use uair because it ends faster and you can do what ever you want from there.

 

[Vorguen]

Recovering against Marth has time and again becoming an annoying task. I seem to eat a million N-airs, F-airs, and D-airs before I make it back, and once I do, I'm still at a bad position anyway. And yes, I do try to recover high. >.>

I try obviously to keep the fight on stage, but when I'm out of it stuff just seems to go down the drain. I try mixing it up between FF airdodges, FF b-air, it just seems in a position when recovering either at the height of the stage (or up to Marth's SH height) to below the stage he can just wreck you.

Any suggestions other than "recover high" or "don't get knocked out in the first place" ? lol

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Try pulling off some wavebounced grenades or C4. The proper name escapes me right now, but I mean the ones that change your aerial momentum pretty drastically.

So after recovering on high aim towards the center of the stage than you could try to pull off one of those. C4 at least gives you the option to airdodge after altering your direction.

Plus, perhaps a FF Uair. Pretty much gives the same effect as the FF bair only vertical, and less landing lag when you hit the ground. Although you give up horizontal range hitbox for that, so not sure how much difference it will make agaisnt Marth. To me, FF Uair seems to work well as it is often a surprise to see hitbox wall coming straight down and people are moving into it.

Which reminds me. I can get the C4s to alter momentum, but what time window you should input the command for the grenades? Never successfully pulled of one of those.

 

[Shadow_of_Link]

The term you're looking for is b-sticking (I'm actually not sure my self, it could be B-reversal). To do it with nades, you have to reverse the moment you pull the nade out, otherwise you'll just do a normal grenade pull. It takes some practice.

 

[Johrune]

How do you place C4 on the sides/underneath stages? When I try, it just falls.

Thanks in advance,
-Johrune

 

[iRjOn]

if a character can wall jump off the side of that stage you can stick it
on FD its the lowest part of the lip thingy
on yoshi's its where lucario can stick to the wall.
ect.
not that big of a use except against wall stickers like Lucario
thats about all

 

[Vorguen]

Try pulling off some wavebounced grenades or C4. The proper name escapes me right now, but I mean the ones that change your aerial momentum pretty drastically.

So after recovering on high aim towards the center of the stage than you could try to pull off one of those. C4 at least gives you the option to airdodge after altering your direction.

Plus, perhaps a FF Uair. Pretty much gives the same effect as the FF bair only vertical, and less landing lag when you hit the ground. Although you give up horizontal range hitbox for that, so not sure how much difference it will make agaisnt Marth. To me, FF Uair seems to work well as it is often a surprise to see hitbox wall coming straight down and people are moving into it.

Which reminds me. I can get the C4s to alter momentum, but what time window you should input the command for the grenades? Never successfully pulled of one of those.

Alright, I know how to change the direction I'm facing with C4 already, but how do I wavebounce with grenades?

 

[spudzalot]

You know how Olimar and Peach can run off a ledge while pulling out a turnip/pikmin and not have any lag at all? Well today in practice mode I did the same thing with Snakes C4. He put down a C4 while walking off a ledge (which dropped down to the platform below the one he walked off) and there was no sound effect for it and Snake had no lag. I tried over and over and could never do it again. The timing may be too difficult to ever make this useful but did anyone know about this?

 

[Recon7]

chasing a Back throw? what are some good options other than snake dashing. right now i'm working on that and boost grabbing off of a back throw.

 

[Ken Neth]

Not much comes from a back throw unless they're at low percentages. Just go with the down throw tech chase. You have so many options from the down throw that aren't there with the back throw.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

When would you say Uthrow, bthrow, or fthrow become better options than the tech chase? Only situations I can see might be where it KOs.

 

[Recon7]

true in some situations i like to use the back throw like trying to toss them onto a mine. but usually its when i get it on accident while attempting a d throw.

 

[Vorguen]

FF U-air works so many wonders. How do you pull off wavebounced grenades when recovering high?

 

[Ken Neth]

When would you say Uthrow, bthrow, or fthrow become better options than the tech chase? Only situations I can see might be where it KOs.

Throwing them into mines/grenades/walls/c4 etc is what I use them for. back is the only one I use to kill.

Something cool I like to do is when the opponent dies plant a mine under a platform and then put the c4 right above it. Then you b/fthrow them in the general direction and detonate the c4. The c4 will blow the mine up and they will take damage from your throw, the mine, and the c4 which is around 50%ish. And sometimes you can even follow up with an aerial. It *****.

FF U-air works so many wonders. How do you pull off wavebounced grenades when recovering high?

Same way you bstick in any other situation.

 

[lanky_gunner]

Throwing them into mines/grenades/walls/c4 etc is what I use them for. back is the only one I use to kill.

I'm with Kenny on this one. I never really use any other throw except the dthrow/tech chase. Although I've found it useful if you're close the the ledge to use the fthrow or bthrow, whichever direction the ledge happens to be. I usually go into upsmashes and grenade placing while they're recovering, but again, I rarely do this for favor of the tech chasing.

Something cool I like to do is when the opponent dies plant a mine under a platform and then put the c4 right above it. Then you b/fthrow them in the general direction and detonate the c4. The c4 will blow the mine up and they will take damage from your throw, the mine, and the c4 which is around 50%ish. And sometimes you can even follow up with an aerial. It *****.

.........................

Nice. Kenny, you just gave me something to use in the next tourney.

 

[TwentyTwo]

When would you say Uthrow, bthrow, or fthrow become better options than the tech chase? Only situations I can see might be where it KOs.

In most cases dthrow tech chase is best, but depending on the opponent, they may be really bad off stage, so a bthrow/fthrow are better for that imo. Like in a snake ditto for example, I much prefer simply just getting the other snake off stage, and edge guarding, even if he recovers high above mortars or whatever you edge guard with, he's still got to come down sometime, and we all know how much of a nightmare that is for snake, and it's even worse when another snake is waiting on the ground .

 

[misterpimp5757]

imagine a snake ditto with only d-throw tech chases. tht would be funny

 

[Panix]

imagine a snake ditto with only d-throw tech chases. tht would be funny

Where would the KO come in? =P

"Whoever has the highest dmg at the end of the time limit loses"

also, I can see a get up attack maybe KO'ing someone lol...

 

[Vorguen]

The fastest way to detonate a C4 is to full hop and then Down-B right? Just confirming, since I am not positive. I tried to Short hop it and many times it would not go off, and I heard doing it in the air is faster than on ground.

 

[misterpimp5757]

u could short hop detonate but u will hurt urself by doing so.

the FH is better cuz you cant blow yourself up but i think you already know that.

 

[Ken Neth]

You can do a shorthop detonate without hurting yourself. You just jump either forward or backward so the momentum has moved you out of the way of the explosion before it blows up.

 

[tmak1313]

How do you do the mortar slide? I can do it after I make contact with a person, but how do you do it just across the stage without hitting somebody with the roll first? Do you just input the roll + up-smash faster?

 

[UltimateRazer]

Yeah. You just gotta do it really fast.

 

[Black_Heretic]

How do you do the mortar slide? I can do it after I make contact with a person, but how do you do it just across the stage without hitting somebody with the roll first? Do you just input the roll + up-smash faster?

if by roll you mean dash attack, then yes

Assuming you're on a GCC, dash -> c-stick down -> analog stick up & Z

its really not even that strict of timing