Smash will SUCK without L-Canceling

[legendofme]

MookieRah is a good dude. So I trust his assumptions..farfetche'd as it may be.
: )

edit: this keyboard sux noodles. I edited over 20 posts today. that has never happened.

 

[Irow]

Well if you think about it, if you finish a move in the air, why should you have any lag except for landing lag?

 

[Coselm]

L/Z-Canceling is easily the most important technique in both ssb64 and melee. Not being able to shffle or l-cancel aerials is going to be ********.

EXAMPLE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H9sZ7NvHh0

Will Ganondorf even be playable without L-Canceling?

I honestly don't think this game can be very competitive without it.

I played Melee for a few good years without knowledge of any advanced techniques.

And I did not think Melee sucked.

Same with SSB64.

Edit:

Everyone skipped over my post, twice.

We will be fine without l-canceling. The new "style" of l-canceling will simply be the timing of your aerials so that you land immediately after the animation is over. Pretty much all the aerials in the game are faster than in melee, and because of people being floatier it makes this easier to do. In one of the vids I saw of a somewhat decent player playing a Falcon player techchased with a dair and the animation was over before landing. That really isn't a drastic change from having to l-cancel a dair as you would in melee.

Amen. Different advanced techniques for a different game.

 

[Twilight Emblem]

*gives mookie rah a mookie hug* <_<

Amen to Coselms amen to mookie rahs gospel.

I plan on having as much fun with this game as possible, every advanced technique discovered will be an extra treat to add on to an already awesome game.

I don't think smash will suck without L canceling, its a different game, we'll adapt *as people have already said n.n;*

I'm sure people will have fun playing as ganondorf. I know i will.

 

[WastingPenguins]

Okay guys, speaking of slow characters, check this out. Wow wow wow.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mxfh5MyMdXY

Ganon's f-air around 2:35. He lands the fair directly into Falco's shield. Look at how freakin' far that pushed the shielding Falco back. WOW. Looks like even more pushback than you'd get hitting a light shield in Melee. This seems pretty big to me. It'll be hard to shield grab Ganon's aerials if you get pushed back that far. Am I reading too much into this? Any thoughts?

Edit: I just booted up Melee to refresh my memory on the shield pushback of that move. Not much at all, super easy to get shieldgrabbed without good spacing.

 

[BDawgPHD]

Captain Falcon might suck without L cancelling......L cancelled stomping is like one of his staples....maybe he'll combo people like he used to in SSB.

EDIT: I should read what other people have to say rofl. We'll just have to wait to see, though.

 

[Waka_Waka_do_do_yea]

Lets hope MookieRah is right.

btw, awsome falcon vid on ytmnd mookie XD.

 

[Irow]

His stomp is still useful, but his uair will definitely be more important. It has less lag, and does decent damage. Perhaps it could still lead into a knee.

 

[BDawgPHD]

His stomp is still useful, but his uair will definitely be more important. It has less lag, and does decent damage. Perhaps it could still lead into a knee.

As long as everything combos into knee, we'll be fine. I'll just have to figure out how to combo into knee and sex, also I hope I can still offstage falcon punch

 

[listentomook]

yeah its kind of sad that theres no more L-canceling in Brawl, but really it will be ok.

There are still features and little kinks to the game that need to be discovered...people didn't immediately pick up melee and start wave dashing. Just because there's no shffling doesnt mean the game is going to be ********, it just means its going to be different, and thats cool to me cuz that means im just gonna get to figure out different methods of play.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I am no longer worried about this game. Since the shield push back has been boosted so much, more moves will be safer on block, especially with good spacing.

Also auto-cancelling will play a bigger role as Mookie said.

 

[Irow]

I don't know if we can call it an autocancel. I mean if the move is done, then you shouldn't have the wind-down lag. It's not that anything was canceled, there simply is nothing to cancel if a move is already finished in the air.

 

[Magus420]

The autocancelling windows on attacks exist in varying amounts earlier than when you would normally be able to act out of it, so the move isn't actually complete but if you happen to land after that point you will get a normal landing instead of the attack one.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

You will notice this especially when you watch Link do his down smash in the air

Lmfao.

Wow the brawl boards will never change.

I cant wait to get my hands on this game, and no it wont suck without the traditional L cancel, remember you can fast fall to cancel lag in brawl kiddies.

 

[Adi]

Nope Dylan, things have taken a turn for the worse lately. Now there's now L-cancelling, however players have begun to formulate a method of spacing called FTC.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Nope Dylan, things have taken a turn for the worse lately. Now there's now L-cancelling, however players have begun to formulate a method of spacing called FTC.

Meh. When you come down to it though smash is a strategy game. Mindgames will always decide who wins in a one versus one, and at least without cancelling we're all on equal ground anyway. Might give people with a good strategic mind a better chance then they had in melee just because they cant move their fingers like KDJ. Not that KDJ isnt a strategic genius, Im just trying to say that some of the technical aspects of melee were a bit demanding, I mean I still have calouses from it, and I dont even play melee anymore.

I really just cant wait till this game comes out.. It looks pretty awesome and I'm sure the competitive circuit will be pretty good.

Meh, like I always said before, Captain falcon's knee will always live on.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Meh. When you come down to it though smash is a strategy game. Mindgames will always decide who wins in a one versus one, and at least without cancelling we're all on equal ground anyway. Might give people with a good strategic mind a better chance then they had in melee just because they cant move their fingers like KDJ. Not that KDJ isnt a strategic genius, Im just trying to say that some of the technical aspects of melee were a bit demanding, I mean I still have calouses from it, and I dont even play melee anymore.

I really just cant wait till this game comes out.. It looks pretty awesome and I'm sure the competitive circuit will be pretty good.

Meh, like I always said before, Captain falcon's knee will always live on.

Are you...serious? Cuz I agree.

 

[Adi]

Wow, didn't expect that from you Dylan. Yes I agree, but one of the demanding aspects of Melee was the ability to act technically sound under pressure as well as operate mentally at a very efficient rate. True, Brawl will remain balanced and a test of skill but the technical aspect was a part of Melee that I enjoyed.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Of course I'm serious...

I play way more smash 64 now than I do melee anyway.

I'm pretty sure melee tournaments are going to continue, since Im watching a few of these new 1v1 brawl videos from those lucky japanese folk...

It seems MUCH slower, so the fans of the fast paced smash game that is melee will probably always keep playing it. Its a different game, so why should one replace the other? Smash 64 still lives on. Sure its competitive scene is practically dead because 5 or so people can beat everyone else in the world without trying, but people still PLAY the game, which is the point.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Actually, I think this game will be interesting without L-canceling. Because lag time is set on all attacks, this mean that players will have to plan their attacks more carefully if they can't simply abuse a strong and otherwise punishable attack. This means that technically infinite combos should be incredibly unlikely to occur, which I think will be a good thing.

But then again, most lag of aerial attacks has been reduced, so it isn't going to be a huge deal most of the time. Just infinite combos shouldn't really be happening. =)

 

[WastingPenguins]

I cant wait to get my hands on this game, and no it wont suck without the traditional L cancel, remember you can fast fall to cancel lag in brawl kiddies.

You haven't been around Smashboards much lately have you? The fast-fall lag cancel from E 4 All is gone. There is absolutely no way to shorten landing lag in Brawl as far as we know. There have been more than a few good players with the Japanese release who have tried everything they could think of to lag-cancel and it just isn't there.

Also, no one else thinks the shield push from that Ganon video is worth talking about?

 

[Adi]

But then again, most lag of aerial attacks has been reduced, so it isn't going to be a huge deal most of the time. Just infinite combos shouldn't really be happening. =)

The thing most people are complaining about is the fact that the lag reduction isn't enough for some characters. Characters like Meta and Pit have extremely low lag times so they are well off but it is a completely different story for Ganon and Ike. People will have to plan out their attacks like always, but I feel that the tiers will be more polarized then Melee's at the rate things are going.

 

[NES n00b]

LOL, Dylan is back.

I am just worried that there will be too little options and very little combos (I love me combos ='( ). I am also afraid of the how good camping will be in this game.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

You haven't been around Smashboards much lately have you? The fast-fall lag cancel from E 4 All is gone. There is absolutely no way to shorten landing lag in Brawl as far as we know. There have been more than a few good players with the Japanese release who have tried everything they could think of to lag-cancel and it just isn't there.

Yeah I didnt know that. But like I said before, smash is all about mindgames and strategy in my opinion anyway. Sucks that theres no cancelling, that REALLY sucks, but it wont ruin the game for me.

LOL, Dylan is back.

Nah im just at my dads. I don't have the internet where I live (With my girlfriend) hence why Im never online anymore.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Sheildgrabbing and projectile camping will rule this game. Watch the whole match to see what I mean.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/170169.html

 

[WastingPenguins]

Sheildgrabbing and projectile camping will rule this game. Watch the whole match to see what I mean.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/170169.html

Holy **** at Ivysaur's short-hop-leaf. Good grief.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Holy **** at Ivysaur's short-hop-leaf. Good grief.

Well with the whole Fox Trot Cancelling just found, hopefully this game will get better.

 

[Titanium Dragon]

Okay, seriously. No. Please quit saying stupid stuff. Indeed, it'd be nice if they just banned the people who made ******** predictions with no basis in fact.

Shield-grabbing and projectile-spamming are very basic, easy to find tactics; indeed, when I entered a new melee meta, despite being quite bad at the game I could easily beat people with my camping/projectile spamming/shield grabbing ways. The reason? People sucked, hadn't seen someone do it well before, and fundamentally didn't get what I was doing. I dominated until they figured it out. Is this a problem? I don't think so.

This is basically a wall; why should I play with you if you can't figure out how to beat a very simple, repitive strategy? The projectile spamming we've seen is nowhere near as good as it was in Melee, so I'm confused as to how you think it is a problem. Likewise, shield-grabbing was good in Melee, it was good in the original game, and I'm unsurprised that it is still good here - it is a pretty basic RPS strategy, and it works well against scrubs.

If you think the game will turn out as a projectile-spam and shieldgrab fest on the basis of one video, in which the spam is only effective because the other player clearly is inexperienced, you're a terrible player and quite possibly a scrub, or simply a troll trying to grab attention.

Seriously folks, calm down. Until you've actually played the game for a while, you're just not going to be able to say anything useful about it.

 

[tutata]

All the people that dont care about the L-cancel probably cant even do it in the 1st place.

 

[Thino]

All the people that dont care about the L-cancel probably cant even do it in the 1st place.

not true

 

[MookieRah]

This is a very delayed response. Sorry about that.

Anyways I have a question for you; Is this new "style" of L-cancelling confirmed? Or is this an valid assumption you are making based off the recent videos all over? (EDIT: My impression of your post was the latter)

I saw this in a lot of videos actually. A lot of times the players weren't doing it entirely on purpose, like the one where the Falcon player techchased a Falco with a dair and landed after the dair animation was over. I see this A LOT with people taking advantage of platforms.

I haven't actually tried looking at the wifiwars vids to see if they are doing it. I assume they are because they make the game look **** good. The reason why I haven't is because I'm too busy drooling over how ****in great Lucario is.

I think that because the people playing it are so used to melee that they are having a hard time changing their mindset from melee. That coupled with 99% of the videos out there being of either casual players or somewhat green competitive players they aren't really adjusting that much. When people actually realize they have to change then we will see more people "getting it" and we'll see better and better videos.

 

[NES n00b]

Likewise, shield-grabbing was good in Melee, it was good in the original game, and

This is how I know you have no idea what you are talking about. Please stop posting your ignorant **** ever again thanks.

 

[KosukeKGA]

This is how I know you have no idea what you are talking about. Please stop posting your ignorant **** ever again thanks.

Yeah, in another thread he claims that L-Canceling was a bad design, so yes, he's an ignorant scrub.

 

[WastingPenguins]

This is a very delayed response. Sorry about that.

I saw this in a lot of videos actually. A lot of times the players weren't doing it entirely on purpose, like the one where the Falcon player techchased a Falco with a dair and landed after the dair animation was over. I see this A LOT with people taking advantage of platforms.

I haven't actually tried looking at the wifiwars vids to see if they are doing it. I assume they are because they make the game look **** good. The reason why I haven't is because I'm too busy drooling over how ****in great Lucario is.

I think that because the people playing it are so used to melee that they are having a hard time changing their mindset from melee. That coupled with 99% of the videos out there being of either casual players or somewhat green competitive players they aren't really adjusting that much. When people actually realize they have to change then we will see more people "getting it" and we'll see better and better videos.

Hey man, just wanted to say thanks for being a voice of reason in here. I know that you're a knowledgeable smasher and you've quelled my fears a bit.

 

[yoshi_fan]

This is a very delayed response. Sorry about that.

I saw this in a lot of videos actually. A lot of times the players weren't doing it entirely on purpose, like the one where the Falcon player techchased a Falco with a dair and landed after the dair animation was over. I see this A LOT with people taking advantage of platforms.

I haven't actually tried looking at the wifiwars vids to see if they are doing it. I assume they are because they make the game look **** good. The reason why I haven't is because I'm too busy drooling over how ****in great Lucario is.

I think that because the people playing it are so used to melee that they are having a hard time changing their mindset from melee. That coupled with 99% of the videos out there being of either casual players or somewhat green competitive players they aren't really adjusting that much. When people actually realize they have to change then we will see more people "getting it" and we'll see better and better videos.

i'm a bit lost. How is the "new" L-cancelling?

Aniway, the game looks great... but slow :/. I just want to pick my game and play to see myself T_T

 

[Dark Sonic]

i'm a bit lost. How is the "new" L-cancelling?

Aniway, the game looks great... but slow :/. I just want to pick my game and play to see myself T_T

It's really not. It's really just waiting for the animation to end before actually landing. In melee we focused so much on L-canceling that we instinctively attacked as we were landing, because with L-canceling there was very little downside. In brawl people try doing that and find themselves in lag so the game seems slower. If they had instead performed the aerial while they were higher and timed it so the animation would be over by the time they land, they wouldn't feel like the game was so sluggish.

 

[MookieRah]

If they had instead performed the aerial while they were higher and timed it so the animation would be over by the time they land, they wouldn't feel like the game was so sluggish.

Indeed. The reason why this works so well for Brawl is because most aerial attacks don't last for very long and everyone is floaty. So we have enough time in the air to perform most attacks before they land.

Also, a lot of lag has been reduced, only big power moves tend to lag like crazy, and it just seems like those shouldn't really be spammed in the first place in Brawl.

 

[Emblem Lord]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYXgdw8ObZg

Brawl definitely doesn't suck.

 

[PwnyRide]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYXgdw8ObZg

Brawl definitely doesn't suck.

Wow. If matches like that can be played without excessive advanced techniques (im sure i saw shorthopping there, bit thats pretty basic), personally, i'll be happy (i have nothing against advanced techniques though). This is proof that people who are genuinely better at the game can produce better quality matches. This was pure eye candy!

 

[SheerMadness]

Am I missing something in that video? All I see is a 1 hit and run game. If thats a foreshadowing of competitive smash then smash really is ruined to me.