Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Makai Wars]

I have a genuine question, ive seen many people use this sort of wording...It makes me think like "oh stop being so pessimistic, youll dreams come true when your x characters joins the roster!", "Don´t let others change your way of thinking, youll get what you want", "Hey i will get my main in smash, ive been hoping and fighting for it so many years!!".

My question goes, yeah you will get your character, get hyped and then what? Smash is a game after all, as much as i like it it wont change a damn thing.
As much as we can discuss, expect and such, i really wanna understand this whole "campaigns" , "struggle" to get a character in a game, really i want to understand this perspective.

Don´t get me wrong, i like smash a lot but nothing will happen if X character doesnt get announced, if Johns theory or my theory is wrong.

Because Smash speculation is supposed to be fun? If someone is having fun speculating their 0.0001% chance character then I don't see a reason to stop them.
People have given me so so so so much hell for wanting Shantae but I have FUN talking about the possibility of Shantae in Smash, I've started a thing on Twitter of drawing Shantae every single day will Wayforward says something about her in Smash Bros. I've met a lot of different Shantae fans because of it and became friends with them. Is she unlikely? Hell yes, but that doesn't mean I'm not gonna talk about it or enjoy myself with the idea of her being playable. That's just...leaving good experiences on the table.
As I see it, everyone should have the right to voice whoever they want. If they set themselves up for disappointment, they should know what they're getting into before devoting themselves to a character. If shantae doesn't make it, I can make peace with that and still have fun with Ultimate.

If you're asking what people will do when the game is out, uh? Play the character? This is like asking "yeah sure, you saved up to get a car, but what are you gonna do with the car? It's just a thing after all", like, I'm gonna drive that thing bruv. If Shantae gets in smash she's a day 1 main, son.

 

[Aurane]

I just want Undertale Music. Stop judging me.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Once again ThatOneAnon Can you give me some photos of the toxicity your talking about and not just avoiding the question?

Okay, I have to admit, I know when I'm beat.
I tried looking for examples of toxicity on both sides and besides what I've already mentioned in regards to those two Ashley fans, people were being a lot more reasonable than I remember them being.
I suppose I was wrong on that end. I apologize.

 

[Noipoi]

I just want Undertale Music. Stop judging me.

Finale is a work of narrative art.

 

[Idon]

I just want Undertale Music. Stop judging me.

Great, now spiderdance is stuck in my head.

 

[Noipoi]

Great, now spiderdance is stuck in my head.

I'm partial to Dummy! my self.

 

[Aurane]

Great, now spiderdance is stuck in my head.

Purple suits you.

 

[Pazzo.]

Pazzo presents...

~The Ultimate Smash Bros of Ultimate Destiny~

Spoiler: Lyrics!

(Instrument section)

Old Bowser was hoppin' around

Mute City like a big playground

When suddenly Greninja burst from the shade

And hit Bowser with a shuriken blade

Bowser got angry and began to attack

But didn't expect to be blocked by Cap'

Who proceeded to open a can of Falcon-fu

When the Echo fighters came out of Big Blue

And they started beating up on Captain Falcon

Then they all got flattened by Icicle Mountain

Before Cap could make it back to the Great Cave

Solid Snake popped out of his grave

And took a grenade out from his belt

And blew Cap' away before he called for help

But he hid under his box and ran away

Because Mario had come to save the day!

This is the ultimate Smash Bros of ultimate destiny

Good guys, bad guys, and all items as far as the eye can see

And only one will win, yeah, now I wonder who it will be

This is the ultimate Smash Bros of ultimate destiny!

(Instrument Section)

Mario laughed and K.O.ed Pikachu

Like the Duck Hunt Dog has laughed at you

There was a sudden K.O. by Little Mac

But Shulk jumped out and attacked his back

And K. Rool was in and trying sing along

When Marth slashed him with the Falchion

But suddenly something caught his leg and he tripped

Simon Belmont took him out with his whip

Then he saw Solid Snake sneaking up from behind

And he reached for his ax which he just couldn't find

'Cause Isabelle stole it and she threw after some time

And Fox deflected it with his shine

Then he jumped in the air and flipped over Chrom

While all three Links tried to throw their bombs

Into Dedede's mouth but they collided in they air

Then they all got hit by a Villager stare!

This is the ultimate Smash Bros of ultimate destiny

Good guys, bad guys, and all items as far as the eye can see

And only one will win, yeah, now I wonder who it will be

This is the ultimate Smash Bros of ultimate destiny!

The Pits called out... and not too soon...

As Ridley descended... bigger than The Moon...

Who delivered a bite... which could finish the job

Into to poor forms... of Samus and R.O.B...

Who flew to the blast zone... over Temple's peak...

As Zelda changed back... into Sheik...

But Ridley saw through... this clever ruse...

And he crushed poor Zelda... on Lylat Cruise...

Then Ness, Game & Watch, Mega Man and Ike,

And Bayonetta, Lucas, Doc Mario, Meta Knight,

Rosalina, Luigi, and the Emblem Crew,

Bowser Junior, Wolf, Ganon, Falco, and Ryu,

Sonic, Wii Fit Trainer, Inklings, and both Kongs

PAC MAN, Wario-Man, every single Pokemon,

Peach, Mii Fighters and even Cloud Strife,

Ice Climbers, Palutena, Kirby, Yoshi all with one life

All came out of nowhere lightning fast

And they kicked Ridley in his scaly ass

It was the greatest Smash Bros that the world ever saw

With every fan looking on in total awe

The match raged on for a century

Many stocks were claimed but eventually

The champion stood who refused to fall:

Waluigi in his purple overalls.

This is the Ultimate Smash Bros of ultimate destiny
Good guys, bad guys, and all items as far as the eye can see
And only one will win, yeah, I wonder who it will be
This is the ultimate Smash Bros... (this is the ultimate Smash Bros)
This is the ultimate Smash Bros... (this is the ultimate Smash Bros)
This is the ultimate Smash Bros of ultimate destiny!

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I just want Undertale Music. Stop judging me.

Honestly, if we do get a Undertale Rep (Not Likely) It’s gonna be Frisk. Din’t See why people think sans will be it just cuz he’s popular. Waluigi is more Popular than Mario, does this mean no Mario in smash bros and instead was?

Just needed to get that off my chest. But yeah. The Undertale soundtrack would be great. Give me Undyne The Undying, Metal Crusher, And Finale And I’m set.

Okay, I have to admit, I know when I'm beat.
I tried looking for examples of toxicity on both sides and besides what I've already mentioned in regards to those two Ashley fans, people were being a lot more reasonable than I remember them being.
I suppose I was wrong on that end. I apologize.

Hey it’s fine. No problem.

 

[Untouch]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Super_Nintendo_Entertainment_System_video_games
According to this, Mario Paint outsold SMRPG, so I beg the question, when the Gnat Queen getting added to Smash?

 

[Potato_]

If we're talking Undertale music, I have but one request:

(Okay maybe two.)

 

[TheCJBrine]

I just want Undertale Music. Stop judging me.

Omega Flowey boss battle w/ Finale remix.

Make it happen, Sakurai.

 

[Aurane]

Metal Crusher, Bonestrousle, Spear of Justice, Asgore...

Ya know? The good stuff.

 

[ChronoBound]

As among the few pre-Brawl speculators still around. Perhaps I can provide context to just how popular Geno was relative to other characters during the pre-Brawl period. Here are three polls that were done during pre-Brawl:

https://smashboards.com/threads/nin...er-voting-top-21-march-13.99139/#post-2218630

For those who do not want to click on the link:
I tallied all the the votes as of 3:00A.M. last night, and here are the results for the top contenders: (characters with 25 votes or more)

Sonic: 69
Ridley: 61
Diddy Kong: 43
Wolf: 35
King Dedede: 34
Krystal: 32
Ike: 32
Mega Man: 31
Geno: 28
Lucario: 27
Midna: 25

(NOTE: Some may of these may be 1-4 votes more than they should be, because I think I may have counted the votes of people who kept re-posting their lists, but they're pretty accurate for the most part)

Two other pre-Brawl polls:

I was looking through some old folders of mine, and I discovered that I had recorded the results for two pre-Brawl polls. Unfortunately, there is no date given on any of the polls, but it ranges from when Brawl was first announced to when the first Dojo newcomers were confirmed.


Poll #1: Nsider first half of 2007

Mario series:
- Geno: 19
- Bowser Jr.: 7
- Toad: 6
- Waluigi: 4
- Daisy: 4
- Mallow: 3
- Paper Mario: 2

Donkey Kong series:
- Diddy Kong: 23
- K. Rool: 8
- Dixie Kong: 3

The Legend of Zelda series:
- Midna: 13
- Vaati: 10
- Fierce Diety Link: 6
- Tingle: 6
- Zant: 4

Metroid series:
- Ridley: 32
- Dark Samus: 2

Kirby series:
- King Dedede: 16

Star Fox series:
- Wolf: 19
- Krystal: 16

Pokemon series:
- Lucario: 10
- Deoxys: 5
- Meowth: 4
- Plusle & Minun: 3
- Blaziken: 2

F-Zero:
- Samurai Goroh: 8

Mother/EarthBound series:
LOL

Fire Emblem series:
- Ike: 14
- Lyn: 14
- Sigurd: 5

Other series:
- Tom Nook: 12
- Isaac: 11
- Olimar: 10
- Mii: 5
- Ray: 4
- Starfy: 4
- Andy: 4

Retro:
- Little Mac: 8
- Balloon Fighter: 6
- Lip: 4
- Muddy Mole: 4
- Takamaru: 2
- Sukapon: 2

Third-Party:
- Sonic: 35
- Mega Man: 13
- Bomberman: 8
- Shadow: 7
- Sora: 6
- Simon Belmont: 5
- Rayman: 4
- Knuckles: 4
- Tails: 4
- Lloyd Irving: 3
- Pac-Man: 2

Top 10 for Nsider poll:
1. Sonic (35)
2. Ridley (32)
3. Diddy Kong (23)
4 Wolf, Geno (19)
5. King Dedede, Krystal (16)
6. Ike, Lyn (14)
7. Mega Man, Midna (13)
8. Tom Nook (12)
9. Isaac (11)
10. Olimar, Lucario, Vaati (10)


Poll #2: GameFAQs, first half of 2007

For some reason there are much less character results recorded for this poll. I don't know why. My theory is that its a separate page to record characters that got more than 1-3 votes (so as to record the higher ranking characters better since there were so many single vote characters in the GameFAQs poll). There is no character on the page that has below 15 votes, so I think this is most likely what this is.

Mario series:
- Geno: 27
- Bowser Jr.: 20

Donkey Kong series:
- Diddy Kong: 37
- K. Rool: 19

The Legend of Zelda series:
The page does not list any Zelda characters so I am assuming there were no Zelda characters that had received at least 15 votes.

Metroid series:
- Ridley: 36
- Dark Samus: 19

Kirby series:
- King Dedede: 32

Star Fox series:
- Krystal: 30
- Wolf: 29

Pokemonseries:
The page does not list any Pokemon characters so I am assuming there were no Pokemon characters that had received at least 15 votes.

F-Zero series:
No character received at least 15 votes.

Mother/EarthBound series:
No character received at least 15 votes.

Fire Emblem series:
- Ike: 16
- Lyn: 15

Other series:
- Isaac: 22
- Tom Nook: 18

Retro:
No character received at least 15 votes.

Third-Party:
- Sonic: 58
- Mega Man: 35
- Shadow: 15

Overall Top 10 for GameFAQs poll:
1. Sonic (58)
2. Diddy Kong (37)
3. Ridley (36)
4. Mega Man (35)
5. King Dedede (32)
6. Krystal (30)
7. Wolf (29)
8. Geno (27)
9. Isaac (22)
10. Bowser Jr. (20)

Pretty interesting.

As can be seen Geno was popularly requested, but he was never ever among the Top 5. The fact that requests for him crashed after Brawl's release, while deconfirmation did not damper the likes of Ridley, Mega Man, K. Rool, Little Mac, and Isaac might say quite a bit.

I find it amusing Dark Samus more or less was the equivalent of K. Rool during the pre-Brawl period (they had a similar amount of requests, and Dark Samus even had a massive support topic here on SmashBoards during the pre-Brawl period). I wonder if Dark Samus would have exploded in requests towards the twilight of pre-Brawl had Ridley been confirmed like what happened to K. Rool when Diddy Kong was confirmed (Ridley and Diddy Kong were pretty similar to each other in requests).

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Great, now spiderdance is stuck in my head.

I'm partial to Dummy! my self.

Great, you guys got those songs stuck in my head now. :/

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm partial to Dummy! my self.

I, for one, would gladly welcome Death by Glamour

Ohhhh yes~

 

[Androobie]

Waluigi is more Popular than Mario

...did I read this right or am I just crazy?

 

[Robertman2]

I will not rest until I see my boys playable in fighting game format.
View attachment 167962

Stop playing baby smt and olay a real smt game. Like Demikids or Jack Bros.

 

[ZephyrZ]

"The Legend of Zelda fans are finicky and never satisfied no matter what they're given."
"Pokemon Fans are a bunch of mindless drones who will just buy whatever game Gamefreak puts out."
"Starfox fans are furry weirdos."
"Fire Emblem fans are thirsty neckbeard weebs who can't get a date."
"Sonic fans are a bunch of manchildren who are more impossible to satisfy then Zelda fans."
"Wii Fit fans are just a bunch of middle-aged moms."
"Mother Fans are delusional for having any hope of Mother 3 coming to the west."

Just a reminder that the vast majority of fanbases in Smash have some sort of stigma or negative stereotype attached to them. It's best not to let it get to you.

 

[Narr]

>Mario RPG saved RPGs
>Not Chrono Trigger
>Not any actual Final Fantasy game
They didn't even need saving in the first place, after Square's success with Final Fantasy, RPGs were a big thing(mainly due to their comparable bigger length and replay value compared to other genres). There's a reason why the SNES had so many RPGs and why so many of them are considered the best of the best to this day.
Second, if you wanna go by that logic then uh... we have Mario already? He's the star of Mario RPG, NOT Geno.
And third, Super Mario RPG is... really not that talked about in the RPG community outside of those who grew up with it, the only good thing people say about is being Baby's First RPG without being stupidly offensive as Mystic Quest.

super mario rpg sold a little over twice as many copies as chrono trigger in the west, and while the game isn't super beloved in rpg circles, it is in nintendo circles. also, c'mon, greentexting with red text?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

"The Legend of Zelda fans are finicky and never satisfied no matter what they're given."
"Pokemon Fans are a bunch of mindless drones who will just buy whatever game Gamefreak puts out."
"Starfox fans are furry weirdos."
"Fire Emblem fans are thirsty neckbeard weebs who can't get a date."
"Sonic fans are a bunch of manchildren who are more impossible to satisfy then Zelda fans."
"Wii Fit fans are just a bunch of middle-aged moms."
"Mother Fans are delusional for having any hope of Mother 3 coming to the west."

Just a reminder that the vast majority of fanbases in Smash have some sort of stigma or negative stereotype attached to them. It's best not to let it get to you.

I mean, that last one is true

 

[Aurane]

OH and the new Mad Mew Mew. That's good stuff too.

 

[Luigifan18]

Hey, I was around for the pre-Brawl speculation, but I don't really remember the details of it. (Also, I was on GameFAQs, not Smashboards.)

 

[ZephyrZ]

I mean, that last one is true

I'm sure there are Mother fans out their who realize their hope is irrational.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

At least give me Power Of NEO

...did I read this right or am I just crazy?

Sorry man I was drunk.

All jokes aside, it was kinda a metaphor. I probably should’ve used a different analogy. Guess I wasn’t thinking straight.

 

[Graizen]

I think the Digimon Stage should be File City.
Based on the first Digimon World game, the Stage would have different forms that will apear at random when you choose to play on it.

Old City Day, Old City Night, New City Day and New City Night
Depending on the form of the Stage different Digimons will apear and attack the fighters.

Spoiler

 

[Pazzo.]

All you young bucks who don't even recognize Ultimate Showdown smh.

 

[TheCJBrine]

STMPWYFS

it plays when you fight sans (maybe).

All you young bucks who don't even recognize Ultimate Showdown smh.

Super Paper Mario was my first Paper Mario and I got the credits and still never beat the 100-room dungeon nor the samurai guys

 

[Robertman2]

All you young bucks who don't even recognize Ultimate Showdown smh.

i feel old now

 

[Luigifan18]

All you young bucks who don't even recognize Ultimate Showdown smh.

I recognized the song right away... man, it's been a while since I heard it.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

STMPWYFS

it plays when you fight sans (maybe).

I mean, it’s not used. But...SAKURAI PLEASE. I’m kidding.

 

[Angelglory]

If we're talking Undertale music, I have but one request:

(Okay maybe two.)

That's great and all, but what about the superior versions?

Spoiler

 

[cmbsfm]

Well, that being said, Link also should be in any cross over fighting franchise for the way how Ocarina of Time influenced 3D adventure games.

I.. still don't think that's enough of a merrit to be included in Nintendo's biggest cross over to be honest.

The Link example doesn’t even make sense because Smash is crossover game featuring characters from many different genres. DOOM would represent FPS, and it’s status as the pioneer of the genre would give Doomguy the “merit” to be that representative.

Also, what exactly “merits” playability? From Sakurai’s mouth we know they must carry “gaming history” aka be iconic. I think DOOM fits that bill nicely. Is it Nintendo history? Because again, every single DOOM game except for one is on Nintendo. What more does it need to do?

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

That's great and all, but what about the superior versions?

Spoiler

Oops delete

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Honestly, if we do get a Undertale Rep (Not Likely) It’s gonna be Frisk. Din’t See why people think sans will be it just cuz he’s popular. Waluigi is more Popular than Mario, does this mean no Mario in smash bros and instead was?

Just needed to get that off my chest. But yeah. The Undertale soundtrack would be great. Give me Undyne The Undying, Metal Crusher, And Finale And I’m set.


Hey it’s fine. No problem.

The last time I assumed Frisk would be the one to go first, I was pretty much told that it might very well be a fan rule and Sans could supercede that and get in first due to popularity. That doesn't seem entirely wrong, given that Isabelle got in over longtime mainstays of the series except the Villager. It must be a case-by-case basis in regards to series.

I'm sure there are Mother fans out their who realize their hope is irrational.

Can't be blamed too much, given that Mother 1 got lucky since there was a prototype English rom laying around. Otherwise they have a hard time getting a third character in Smash, let alone Mother 3 or that fangame that may or may not into the next Duke Nukem Forever.

Also, what exactly “merits” playability? From Sakurai’s mouth we know they must carry “gaming history” aka be iconic. I think DOOM fits that bill nicely. Is it Nintendo history? Because again, every single DOOM game except for one is on Nintendo. What more does it need to do?

To me, the rules of criteria for inclusion must just be: does a significant amount of people remember it, yes? Is it legally viable? Put that sucker in there.

 

[Pazzo.]

i feel old now

I recognized the song right away... man, it's been a while since I heard it.

Fun fact: It's as old as Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

10 years old.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

That's great and all, but what about the superior versions?

Spoiler

My Jam.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

So depending on what we get next week (and we are getting something next week, mark my words), this could shape the last month and a half of the hype train in a big way.
It could confirm a bunch of fan theories or leaks, or it might blow them all out of the water. But really, there's only one thing that matters:
It'll be new Smash info.

 

[Robertman2]

Fun fact: It's as old as Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

10 years old.

The original video is more like 13 years old

 

[Deleted member]

That's great and all, but what about the superior versions?

Spoiler

These are extremely moving and I am touched. Music can be so powerful.