Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ZephyrZ]

Also, I'd be willing to say that Isabelle didn't do as well on the ballot as K. Rool or Simon, nor did Ridley because everyone thought he was forever disconfirmed.

I still think Ridley was probably one of the ballot's top contenders though. From my experience during the Smash 4 speculation, he had the strongest newcomer support of all characters even after the stage boss was teased. His fanbase was so large and so dedicated that I imagine a lot of people just voted for him anyway - I know a couple of my internet friends at the time did. Even K.Rool was completely overshadowed by him in popularity for most of the speculation scene. "Too Big" memes were ironically really good for Riddley in a way since they got more people talking and thinking about him.

Besides, Sakurai may not have mentioned the ballot, but he did mention "overseas popularity" being the reason Riddles got in. That sounds like he did well on the ballot to me. But of course I still agree with your point that this is all just speculation and we'll probably never know for sure.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I mean, there is a reason why people were calling K.Rool the second Ridley during DLC period. Then both get in, and it's just a "everyone wins" situation after that.

Also, yeah, "Waluigi for Smash" is becoming a meme for the third time but Ashley fans' reception isn't that bad.

I really never saw K. Rool as the Ridley of Smash 4 DLC. I mean he never had his own equivalence of the "Ridley's Too Big!" meme.

 

[PsySmasher]

See, here's something I worry about: In the event that Waluigi or Ashley ever get into a Smash game as playable characters, the very, very, VERY first thing people will think is that Sakurai is appealing to toxic fanbases, since that's the reputation that those characters have around them now.
This will, in turn, cause bad PR for the game, and likely a gigantic ****storm.

Imagine if Sakurai put in Assist Trophies as playable characters for DLC. If anyone got in except for Waluigi, that fanbase is going to riot.

We don't have the numbers, though, so we literally can't say who did and didn't do well. Fan polls on forums are horrible indications for things like that as they can be botted to heck and back and are never a representative of the general audience. There is a HUGE disconnect from hardcore Smash speculators and casual fans outside message boards.

I couldn't agree with this more.

At this point, there's far too many unknown variables to reasonably predict who is going to make it in.

It doesn't matter if it's Geno, Isaac, Banjo, Ken, Incineroar, Bandana Dee, Elma, Steve, Ken, Shadow, Dixie, Waluigi or any other character.

If your extremely confident a character is going to make it in, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Just know that whatever evidence you think supports your evidence is subjective to your opinion. Another person could use that same point to argue against you.

 

[Makai Wars]

Explain Inkling and Isabelle then, or Daisy. There is still the appeal to the more general public here.

A few characters getting in due to relevancy dos not suddenly mean the ballot stopped existing, if we're playing the "explain this" card tell me why Ridley, K. Rool and Chrom got in, surely the ballot had nothing to do with that right?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Well, that's one way to spin my post. Woof.
I wasn't necessarily referring to the people in this thread, mate (although I have seen several people here already say they'd be miffed at Geno's inclusion). Hell, I've seen plenty of people on this website express toxic hatred towards Geno and his fans, so it's not even limited to hotspots for this sort of thing like 4chan. Just because people here aren't saying it doesn't mean no one is. You're the one who needs to chill before calling me a martyr for expressing my thoughts on bashing popular characters.

Dude, you were pushing hate-speech propaganda and applying it to Nekoo and I, who are arguing that Geno isn't as likely as most people think. Even if you didn't do it intentionally, you still did.

 

[Deleted member]

I really never saw K. Rool as the Ridley of Smash 4 DLC. I mean he never had his own equivalence of the "Ridley's Too Big!" meme.

K. Rool's "Too big!" was "Not relevant enough!"

I'm sorry to say I was a believer in both, lol. Mostly so I wouldn't ever get my hopes up for them.

 

[Noipoi]

Just for fun (and because I'm slightly bored atm, lol), what are people's personal rankings for the remixes we've heard so far? Here are mine, and to make it so that there aren't too many video embeds, I only made rankings for songs that really stood out to me:

Spoiler

Ranked from worst to best:

I...really don't like this one all that much, lol. It kinda sounds like they just took the original, added an instrument or two, and then let someone play with the speed features on Audacity. 4/10

It's kinda sad that the only Pikmin motiff that exists to Smash composers is "DAAAA NA NA NAAAAA NAAAAAAAAAA". While this remix isn't bad, it has too much padding in the middle that sounds like it's about to lead into something, but never does. It just loops back to the main theme. 5/10

I like this one. It has a nice, although admittedly repetitive melody. 6/10

It's bright, happy, and fun, but kinda suffers from the same repetitive problems Galaga Medley does. I'd listen to it in Smash and enjoy it, but I don't know how often I'd choose to listen to it outside of playing the game. 6/10

This one caught me off guard! I really like that they went with something so different for an Animal Crossing song. It fits a frantic, high energy game like Smash but is also pretty reminiscent of the relaxing pace of the game it comes from. 7/10

They managed to take a soundtrack that is SUPER hit and miss and make a remix that is definitely a hit. I'm very excited for both this song, and whatever songs from Wooly World make it in. It's just so dang bouncy and happy, I love it. 7/10

This one right here is FIRE. I can't not think Sonic Adventure 2 when I hear it (Probably because of the composer!), and that makes me love it even more. 8/10

Hey, you got your Kingdom Hearts in my Street Fighter! And I LOVE it! I'm a sucker for any of Yoko Shimomura's music, so this is an easy win with me. 8/10

It's Kirby music. It was already god tier, all this does is simply reinforce that. 9/10

Legit got chills when I listened to it for the first time in June. The amount of Metroid love Ultimate is giving is almost enough to make this Metroid fanboy cry, lol. 9/10

Mario 3 is my jam, and the soundtrack from it is some of the best Mario has to offer. The fact it also sounds very Sonic-esque doesn't hurt, either. 9/10

Everything about this is amazing. I can't really put it into words, it's so, so dang good. F-ZEROOOOOOOOOOO/10

I have nothing to say other than Callie is best girl. Callie/10.

Music can make me pretty emotional when it touches me, and hoooooo boy does this one get me choked up. It brings up all the magical memories I have of playing BotW, and the wonder that game gave me the entire way through. Easily 10/10

I love Tomodachi Life and Miitopia so much, and the music is a big reason why. I mean, the 3DS version was already perfect, but this remix somehow manages to blow it away. 10/10

Easily the best track in the game for me personally. The beat, the fast rhythm, the goofy rap segments, and the fact it came from (in my opinion) the best character reveal trailer Smash has had yet makes this truly a masterpiece in my eyes. K. Rool being revealed was such a big moment for Smash fans, and this remix is very fitting and worthy of that. 10/10

I don't feel like going through all the songs, so i'll just do my top five if that's okay.

5
Happy Home Designer
It's Animal Crossing with electric guitars. That's good stuff.

4/10
Tomadachi Life
I love Tomadachi life. Such a funny, silly game.
This song takes me back to those summer days in 2014, pairing my friends up with memes and video game characters.
Ah, those were the days...
5/10

3
Champion Steven
I'm a huge Pokemon fan, so this remix pleases me.
It reminds me of this one time where I was fighting Steven with my Blaziken, and it kept missing blaze kick!
From that day on I have honored all my Blaziken with the honored title of "Stupid Chicken".
Now can we just get Lance/Red's theme in here? Please?
6.5/10

2
Bomb Rush Blush
I love this song, it's the best. It's energized, it's cute, it's got that unique Splatoon sound, it's great.
Marie is still best girl though.
9/10

1
Gangplank Galleon
This song. THIS SONG.
This song is absolutely incredible. I still listen to it almost daily.
The beat is ridiculous, the energy is incredible, those trumpets give me life, that rap is hysterical, even the bass is amazing.
This song got me to play Donkey Kong Country. This song got me to kinda like K Rool after not caring for him at all.
This song is the best song Ultimate's come out with so far, and i'm so sad it's a DK song because I want it to play everywhere.
10 OUT OF 10

 

[MainJPW]

The main difference is that while Ridley and K Rool are known for being highly requested characters, their fandoms aren't really seen as toxic like with Waluigi and Ashley.

K. Rool fans are man children who threaten Sakurai for not putting him in For. Or so I’ve heard.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Have you been living under a rock? After the August 8th Direct, one Ashley fan said Castlevania was a dead franchise, another said he literally wanted to murder Sakurai, and then that was all it took. Ashley fans have been vilified ever since and they have a reputation that they will likely never shake off.

You seem to be taking an ant and making an anthill about it, I have seen nothing like this since after that direct happened.

You seem to just like taking shots at people who like Ashley.

A few characters getting in due to relevancy dos not suddenly mean the ballot stopped existing, if we're playing the "explain this" card tell me why Ridley, K. Rool and Chrom got in, surely the ballot had nothing to do with that right?

I didn't say the ballot stopped existing, you're putting words in my mouth. Ridley and K Rool obviously got in by fan demand, Sakurai even stated Chrom and Dark Samus too. The foolishness is to think that is the only way characters are getting into the game.

 

[Makai Wars]

Have you been living under a rock? After the August 8th Direct, one Ashley fan said Castlevania was a dead franchise, another said he literally wanted to murder Sakurai, and then that was all it took. Ashley fans have been vilified ever since and they have a reputation that they will likely never shake off.

The same day the internet was full of art of Ashely getting brutally beaten up by K. Rool or burned at a cross by Simon, why aren't those fanbases considered toxic now too? Almost like judiging an entire fanbase off the action of some salty dude with a twitter account is a bad call.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Have you been living under a rock? After the August 8th Direct, one Ashley fan said Castlevania was a dead franchise, another said he literally wanted to murder Sakurai, and then that was all it took. Ashley fans have been vilified ever since and they have a reputation that they will likely never shake off.

I don’t remember that...Do you have a link?

 

[Llort A. Ton]

My ranking for the remixes stands as

Spoiler: long

1. Gangplank Galleon
2. Snake Eater
3. Brinstar Depths
4. Vega Stage
5. Fortress Boss/SMB3 Boss
6. Bloody Tears & Monster Dance
7. F ZERO Meledy
8. Bomb Rush Blush
9. City Trial
10. Battle With Steven
11. Mega Man 4 Melody
12. BOTW Theme
13. Afternoon on the Island
14. Galaga melody
15. Gear Up For...
16. Animal Crossing Theme
17. Yoshis New Island Theme
18. Pikmin Theme
19. Noisy Notebook

 

[ZephyrZ]

Have you been living under a rock? After the August 8th Direct, one Ashley fan said Castlevania was a dead franchise, another said he literally wanted to murder Sakurai, and then that was all it took. Ashley fans have been vilified ever since and they have a reputation that they will likely never shake off.

I've seen people call the Riddley fanbase toxic a handful of times. I've only heard the Ashley fanbase called that once or twice and have seen far more people trying to defend it.

These things are just drama. Most people will probably forget it in time. I'm sure even the Waluigi anti-fanbase will move on from that twitter harassment in time.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

A few characters getting in due to relevancy dos not suddenly mean the ballot stopped existing, if we're playing the "explain this" card tell me why Ridley, K. Rool and Chrom got in, surely the ballot had nothing to do with that right?

Look, we're not saying the Ballot doesn't matter. We're saying that it doesn't matter as much as you think it does. Sakurai is obviously using it, but not for all of his picks. Additionally, if Simon did well on the Ballot, we can throw out most fan polls because he didn't perform well enough on them, which leads to my point that we don't know how well characters did on the Ballot.

 

[P.Kat]

Honestly, in regards to Dante in Smash, I think there's one major thing holding him back.

Kamiya has said before that he wants Dante and Bayonetta to meet on his own terms. This is the reason Bayonetta didn't show up in Project X Zone. As big of a deal as Smash is, I just don't see that being the stage he wants to set up for them. Could it be? It could. But I don't really think so. The way he put it makes it seem like he'd want something more than them sharing the spotlight with dozens of others and maybe just having a trailer together.

Kamiya also was the director/writer of Okami so if anything, he could also choose Ammy.

 

[Nekoo]

Everyone not putting the F-Zero medlay with the Daytona guy as their number 1 have bad taste and should be banned to the shadow realm

 

[TheCJBrine]

Of course we can't cite the ballot I just believed Simon could've done well because of what Verge said,

but with how Sakurai seems to be focusing on characters with high fan-demand, and even mentioned Geno being one who get's a lot of requests back in Smash 4, I think we could at least expect him alongside either Sora, or Slime or whatever Dragon Quest protagonist.

 

[Idon]

The difference between Ridley/K. Rool and Waluigi/Ashley is that Ridley and K. Rool's fanbases didn't literally become memes because of how awful they were/are. Okay, maybe Ridley's kinda did, but K. Rool's certainly didn't.
Everyone associates Waluigi fans with stupid 5 year old memelords and everyone associates Ashley fans with weeaboos and people who make unironic death threats towards Sakurai now because both of those became widespread perceptions as soon as they were deconfirmed.

Except they aren't.
Again, that's just a select amount of people that demonize the entire community for the actions of a few.

 

[Graizen]

Its just that... This is alot of coincidences.

People compare the two games, the Japanese public love Tamagotchis and Tomodachi Life
They go and pick the guy that made the Songs for the last 2 Big Digimon Games to Remix a song from Tomodachi Life
And they put the Song on the Smash Site on the same month Digimon Battle Spirit was lauched in Japan
Digimon Battle Spirit was the first Digimon Fighting Game, and the first Digimon Game on a Nintendo console

Im just saying, this is alot of details, i can't ignore it

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Have you been living under a rock? After the August 8th Direct, one Ashley fan said Castlevania was a dead franchise, another said he literally wanted to murder Sakurai, and then that was all it took. Ashley fans have been vilified ever since and they have a reputation that they will likely never shake off.

We shouldn’t take a few people actions and force that reputation onto the entire fan base. It’s like saying every Video game is horrible because Sonic 06 And Bubsy the Bobcat are trash.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

People seem to also forget that the Smash fandom is a massive mess of like 30+ fandoms, and often are seen at their most worst and toxic.

So many opinions can be flung around that you can plant a target on just about anything and say "X has a toxic fanbase because of this one person I saw"

 

[ThatOneAnon]

You seem to be taking an ant and making an anthill about it, I have seen nothing like this since after that direct happened.

You seem to just like taking shots at people who like Ashley.

Believe it or not, I actually think Ashley would make a good addition to the roster. I'm simply saying, from the general consensus that I've seen, at least on places like Twitter, the fanbases of characters like Ashley and Waluigi are considered to be toxic.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

So a possibility of Smash having a Direct this month?


Hmm that does sounds interesting. I just don't know if they will actually do it or hold it until next month when the release is getting closer. Didn't Nintendo do a Direct of Smash right before and after 3DS was released?

 

[Deleted member]

It's good to keep in mind a handful of people in a fanbase being hateful and toxic shouldn't be what makes you hate something or blanket an entire fanbase as "being that way". As someone who had Waluigi in their top 5, it makes me a little sad to see people get so riled up about it sometimes. Yes, there are people who behaved shamefully, but not all of us are like that.

 

[KMDP]

There's literally nothing wrong with wanting Geno in Smash, it's weird seeing people try to discredit the character's chances when they're higher than ever thanks to the ballot.

If anything, Geno and Isaac are currently the two characters who best benefit from our projected Ballot results.

The question is if Sakurai chose to use them (also whether or not our exit polls were accurate).

 

[Pyra]

one Ashley fan

ayyye lmao

People seem to also forget that the Smash fandom is a massive mess of like 30+ fandoms, and often are seen at their most worst and toxic.

So many opinions can be flung around that you can plant a target on just about anything and say "X has a toxic fanbase because of this one person I saw"

The "toxic" part of any franchise tends to be loud enough to overshadow the rest.

Everyone's best bet is to like what they want to like and if people ruin things for you it's okay to avoid talking to those people lol

Fun fact: I like Homestuck but have intentionally made no friends based around that.

 

[Noipoi]

I used to hang around the Ashley thread, no one made any death threats. And we all hated it whenever some moron on twitter did.
We just really liked Ashley, we're sad she's an assist trophy again, and we're hoping she gets a chance in the next game. Sure there are some nasty fans out there but literally any fan base can say the same.

It's not exclusive to Ashley. it's not exclusive to Waluigi. Every fan base has some stupid people in it.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

SE hasn't created geno hype. they themselves have been silent fans have created hype for geno. let's not get that confused. gneo has been in no way acknowledged by SE.

I must have worded that funny because no one seems to understand what I'm talking about with that post

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Its just that... This is alot of coincidences.

People compare the two games, the Japanese public love Tamagotchis and Tomodachi Life
They go and pick the guy that made the Songs for the last 2 Big Digimon Games to Remix a song from Tomodachi Life
And they put the Song on the Smash Site on the same month Digimon Battle Spirit was lauched in Japan
Digimon Battle Spirit was the first Digimon Fighting Game, and the first Digimon Game on a Nintendo console

Im just saying, this is alot of details, i can't ignore it

Spoiler: ???

I've talked about mental gymnastics before, but this. This gets the Gold Medal for mental gymnastics right here. We've truly gone above Olympic level.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Believe it or not, I actually think Ashley would make a good addition to the roster. I'm simply saying, from the general consensus that I've seen, at least on places like Twitter, the fanbases of characters like Ashley and Waluigi are considered to be toxic.

When he says making a mountain out of a molehill, he’s not talking about how much you like Ashley, he’s talking about how you take the minority of said characters fan base and say it’s toxic because there are a few cruddy people there. People like Noipoi per say, who wanted Ashley, is fine.

 

[Idon]

Spoiler: ???

View attachment 167959

I've talked about mental gymnastics before, but this. This gets the Gold Medal for mental gymnastics right here. We've truly gone above Olympic level.

COINCIDENCE?
I THINK NO- Yeah probably.

 

[Noipoi]

Another great character icon! Did you draw it yourself? I drew mine.

Spoiler

I totally drew it myself.
I call it Count Noipula

 

[Pyra]

Its just that... This is alot of coincidences.

People compare the two games, the Japanese public love Tamagotchis and Tomodachi Life
They go and pick the guy that made the Songs for the last 2 Big Digimon Games to Remix a song from Tomodachi Life
And they put the Song on the Smash Site on the same month Digimon Battle Spirit was lauched in Japan
Digimon Battle Spirit was the first Digimon Fighting Game, and the first Digimon Game on a Nintendo console

Im just saying, this is alot of details, i can't ignore it

I was going to say that these are kinda stretches, but it'd be much more entertaining if you ended up right.

 

[Makai Wars]

The "toxic" part of any franchise tends to be loud enough to overshadow the rest.
Everyone's best bet is to like what they want to like and if people ruin things for you it's okay to avoid talking to those people lol

This, I've been seeing people absolutely FUMING that Shovel Knight got stuck as an Assist trophy but Shantae hasn't been deconfirmed. Positively livid. But I'm not going to say "yeah Shovel Knight fans are toxic bc this one dude got up in my face" that's just dumb. There are plenty of SK fans just happy he's in the game at all, but people willingly ignore them to point out the bad egg. The exact same thing is going to happen if Shantae gets deconfirmed, some idiot is gonna rant on Twitter and you'll screencap them and say "THIS IS THE ENTIRE SHANTAE FANBASE LOOK AT HOW TOXIC THEY ARE" and that's just...blatant misinformation.

Fun fact: I like Homestuck but have intentionally made no friends based around that.

Spoiler

N1C3

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Batman and Shantae would be huge if they were announced for Smash.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

When he says making a mountain out of a molehill, he’s not talking about how much you like Ashley, he’s talking about how you take the minority of said characters fan base and say it’s toxic because there are a few cruddy people there. People like Noipoi per say, who wanted Ashley, is fine.

I never said the Ashley fanbase was toxic. I said that the general perception was that the Ashley fanbase was toxic. I'm not the one making a mountain out of a molehill, the rest of the community is.
Seriously, go on Twitter and search "Ashley Smash Bros." and scroll down.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Inkling, Isabelle and Daisy probably got in due to fan demand as well, to be honest. And there would have been far more vocal requests for Simon if people believed he actually stood a chance.

 

[blackghost]

Peter Pan Ham & Cheese... Sephiroth!

Umm... Before Characters like:
Pheonix Wright
Leon
Monster Hunter
Amaterasu
Yeah... I don't think so...

leon is close.
monster hunter is not a character that is not how that franchise works.
Amaterasu isn't even on the same planet as the rest of your list. okami has to be continuously rereleased because it never sells. it is beautiful, has a great story, and incredible charatcers. it is not a huge hit. never has been.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

This, I've been seeing people absolutely FUMING that Shovel Knight got stuck as an Assist trophy but Shantae hasn't been deconfirmed. Positively livid. But I'm not going to say "yeah Shovel Knight fans are toxic bc this one dude got up in my face" that's just dumb. There are plenty of SK fans just happy he's in the game at all, but people willingly ignore them to point out the bad egg. The exact same thing is going to happen if Shantae gets deconfirmed, some idiot is gonna rant on Twitter and you'll screencap them and say "THIS IS THE ENTIRE SHANTAE FANBASE LOOK AT HOW TOXIC THEY ARE" and that's just...blatant misinformation.

Spoiler

N1C3

The problem is most of the "good ones" Dont shove the fact they are a fan in people's faces, unlike the "toxic ones". So people's only real exposure is the most vocal part, even if they are the minority

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Inkling, Isabelle and Daisy probably got in due to fan demand as well, to be honest. And there would have been far more vocal requests for Simon if people believed he actually stood a chance.

Where's Cutie Gwen to point out this revisionist history right here?