Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pazzo.]

Aren’t you “that guy” who made multiple fake Agumon leaks just to get people to talk about him?

It may be needed just to ignore.

 

[Graizen]

And again i post something about Agumon's chances.
Some guy apear and start talking how Agumon has no chances.

Everytime.

At least tell me why Agumon has no chances.

 

[Deleted member]

Except, those were all Smash 4 Mii costumes
I get why you think he has a chance though


Can you blame me for being pessimistic Fisher

Right, and I wanna say this.

Counterattack!! is easily the most notable Xenoblade Chronicles 2 song. However, they didn't even include that. Of all the songs you can put in, you forget to add Counterattack? That should be the biggest red flag, if I'm gonna be blunt.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Alright, here's ZeRo's full tier list. Ranked in order of best to worst from left to right, up to down. I think this is the final version of his list for now until the game's out.

Keep in mind that this doesn't take after the buff list made by the mexican players... and also the tech that may be discovered through this game... and the advanced tech that we haven't been shown...

 

[Diem]

Allow me to add more to their characters.

Rex is an aspiring teenager who picks up his own weight and makes a living for himself, unlike most people his age (even those in their 20's, like me). He also supports his family back home, is ridiculously nice to a fault, and always tries to see the best in others. He's put in situations where violence is the only option however, so he's not entirely an All-Loving Hero as one might perceive him to be. He also has the ability to reason with how others go about their goals and tries his best to find a middle-ground that satisfies both parties, and has gone on record to changing

Spoiler

one of the main antagonist's perceptions of humanity through sheer admiration of his race and the amazement of the world that's built off of Blades and Titans alike.

When he's not chipper and playfully smug, he's convincingly-sad and broken, and it's pretty awful seeing him in those moments. The voice-acting is definitely an issue here and there, but it's not enough to deter my experience. In fact, it's rather charming in a So Bad, It's Good way.

As for Pyra, let me divert from her a bit for just a moment. A not-so-bright friend of mine wants Pyra to be playable by herself and reasons that she can hold her own without Rex. Popular opinion says otherwise, but I can agree with his points regarding her. Putting that aside, he doesn't see eye-to-eye with KOS-MOS, who he believes is only popular because "she's hot." I can't even call him a hypocrite at this point because me wanting KOS-MOS has nothing to do with her attractiveness at all, but you can sure as hell attribute his desire to want Pyra in Smash because he gawks about her constantly for the very reasons he thinks people want KOS-MOS. Ahh, what an ******...

Anyway, so Pyra... She's a god damn cinnamon roll. The only other characters capable of competing for that title are Kasandra, Crossette, and Haze. Pyra's got a motherly warmth to her, has a soothing voice that's easy to listen to, and has such a relaxing disposition that she's quite literally "Good Vibes: The Character." She's quite reluctant in the main campaign of the game due to fearing her own strength, but this isn't some delusional chuuni hyperbole. She's incredibly dangerous within the context of the whole game, having the same potential as the main antagonist

Spoiler

(Malos)

to wipe the world asunder had her original partner been the pseudo-antagonist

Spoiler

(Amalthus)

instead. The expansion goes on to capitalize on her past experiences, which makes her role in the main campaign all the more tragic. Pyra is very sweet and loving, but she's

Spoiler

suicidal in the beginning of the game by the time Rex awakens her. He learns later that she came into being as a Tulpa to Mythra, as a coping mechanism for all the horrors she was subjected to 500 years before the events of the main campaign. As such, her journey with Rex starts off with wanting to meet the man who created their world and seek oblivion for the atrocities they were a part of. What's worse is that her other personality, Mythra, had minor sociopathic tendencies. The aftermath of the war left them guilt-ridden, and it takes Rex to help them break out of their shell, which would eventually earn them their true appearance.

Really, I think she's a fantastic character. I'd be a liar if I didn't say she was gorgeous, but that's just a bonus honestly. There's a reason she's my favorite party blade and Kasandra's my favorite optional blade. Personality comes first to me.

Thank you for taking the time to write all this out. It was very informative. The characters actually sound fairly unique and fleshed-out.

Shame they have to have such poor character designs. I haven't played any of the Xeno games, but Xenoblade Chronicles and whatever the Wii U game was called (I forget) both seemed to have okay designs. Wonder why this one had to be so bizarre.

 

[Idon]

Right, and I wanna say this.

Counterattack!! is easily the most notable Xenoblade Chronicles 2 song. However, they didn't even include that. Of all the songs you can put in, you forget to add Counterattack? That should be the biggest red flag, if I'm gonna be blunt.

Yes, but consider this:

Every series has notable absent and popular songs as well. What would make Xenoblade different?

 

[BlueMagician]

ZeRo's looking at who seems good based on footage, which is fine, but I do wonder how well predictions from before the game release will hold up.

 

[Luigi The President]

Right, and I wanna say this.

Counterattack!! is easily the most notable Xenoblade Chronicles 2 song. However, they didn't even include that. Of all the songs you can put in, you forget to add Counterattack? That should be the biggest red flag, if I'm gonna be blunt.

Tots we ain't even seen the full track list

 

[Paperchampion23]

I do think that Geno not being in base could hypothetically maybe be a little explained by the fact that Squenix is just...so damn stingy.

No matter WHO it was their second rep would be DLC.

What y'all think?

I'm confused though, Geno has a costume, which essentially means SE greenlit SMRPG content for smash already. Now, I'm sure there is a discrepancy between a fighter and a costume, but I feel like he already got approval for Geno

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

Alright, here's ZeRo's full tier list. Ranked in order of best to worst from left to right, up to down. I think this is the final version of his list for now until the game's out.

I’m literally surprised about Ridley’s placement. I’ll still play him regardless of tiers but it would be nice to see him move up a bit after release and be a frequent sight in the competitive scene.

However Mewtwo and K.Rool please me so far. Also, that Pichu placement tho

 

[staindgrey]

Look I know this is pages old and hours old now, but comparing Cloud, a character from a storied franchise with it's roots in Nintendo to cool looking sword girl from a game Nintendo has never had but they own a tiny stock in her company and they made a game together that's doing well...

Phew.

That's a reach my bud.

Your parents wouldn't be Elastigirl and Mr. Fantastic would they?

To be clear:

1) I don't care one bit for Katalina. I'm not for her being in. But the argument that she isn't relevant to Nintendo consoles doesn't hold water when Cloud is already in the game.

2) The Fantastic Four are my favorite Marvel franchise, full disclosure.

 

[Luigi The President]

I'm confused though, Geno has a costume, which essentially means SE greenlit SMRPG content for smash already. Now, I'm sure there is a discrepancy between a fighter and a costume, but I feel like he already got approval for Geno

BIG difference between a Geno costume and him being a full-on character

 

[KingofKoopas]

And again i post something about Agumon's chances.
Some guy apear and start talking how Agumon has no chances.

Everytime.

At least tell me why Agumon has no chances.

IDK why anyone would say anyone not from games or game like devices like the original digimon has no chances after PIRANHA PLANT got in

 

[MyDude213]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mUTDP5TF1Q

Nintendo Nomura daddy Sakurai does not play any games.

 

[monadoboy]

All this Rex talk and no one's mentioned he has a cool af hand anchor. I love his anchor and all the things they did with it in the game.

 

[Deleted member]

>Ridley low tier
I can never escape Low Tier Main Hell I guess

Shulk was not low tier in Smash 4 you simpleton.
Yes I know you main Ganon, but Ganon is great.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Cloud is relevant to Nintendo by the pure fact he's the most iconic hero from a franchise that is iconic to Nintendo.

Katalina is just a hero in a mobile game that is made by a company Nintendo is working with. There's nothing connecting her to Nintendo. She's a six degrees of Kevin Bacon situation far more than Cloud will EVER be.

 

[Idon]

IDK why anyone would say anyone not from games or game like devices like the original digimon has no chances after PIRANHA PLANT got in

Yeah that's the thing.
Everyone has a chance,

Buuuut, some characters have a bigger chance than others.

 

[Pazzo.]

And again i post something about Agumon's chances.
Some guy apear and start talking how Agumon has no chances.

Everytime.

At least tell me why Agumon has no chances.

It's less of Digimon's actual (low) chances and more your persistence in telling us why the character is a shoe-in while ignoring everyone else.

 

[KingofKoopas]

Yeah that's the thing.
Everyone has a chance,

Buuuut, some characters have a bigger chance than others.

Fair enough.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Thank you for taking the time to write all this out. It was very informative. The characters actually sound fairly unique and fleshed-out.

Shame they have to have such poor character designs. I haven't played any of the Xeno games, but Xenoblade Chronicles and whatever the Wii U game was called (I forget) both seemed to have okay designs. Wonder why this one had to be so bizarre.

It could be worse, one optional sword has a design that would fit better in Sekirei or Maken-Ki than a Xenoblade game.

Yeah that's the thing.
Everyone has a chance,

Buuuut, some characters have a bigger chance than others.

Fair enough.

Plus there's characters that people want to support more right now , so priorities are on who's speculated on frequently.

 

[Graizen]

It's less of Digimon's actual (low) chances and more your persistence in telling us why the character is a shoe-in while ignoring everyone else.

Ok.

 

[Arcanir]

Also, to show how varied initial impressions have been, here's Abadango's initial impressions:

今の印象https://t.co/jOuyksomfI pic.twitter.com/VL1ZBkUOsP

— あばだんご🍡 | SNB (@Abadango) November 5, 2018

For reference: the list goes 'seems strong', 'seems normal', 'seems weak', 'don't know yet'.

As you can see, a number of characters are similar between the two lists (Pikachu, Zelda, Samus/Dark Samus, Bowser Jr.), but some like Young Link move up/down a tier while others like Ken drop like a rock. It's all up to interpretation based on limited data, and that can lead to starkly different impressions depending on what's being seen and who's doing the assessment.

 

[Robertman2]

Y'all aware Nintendo partially owns Cygames, right?

 

[SvartWolf]

It's doing really well. The average player spends three times as much money on Dragalia Lost as they do Fire Emblem Heroes. Which is why it's Euden everybody should be worried about.

Dont have any issue with dragalia lost content in smash.. but please, anyone BUT the shulk knockoff.. nothing against shulk, but i prefer my shulks being... well.. shulk.

 

[Deleted member]

Shulk was not low tier in Smash 4 you simpleton.

Bottom of mid tier isn't much better, and he's far from being a viable pick regardless.

unless it's F that's considered the start of low tier and not E

 

[Tree Gelbman]

BIG difference between a Geno costume and him being a full-on character

Not necessarily. Sakurai already has image rights to Geno otherwise he'd have nothing in the game. They'd be no icons, Spirit, costume, anything.

If Square didn't want him using Geno at all they wouldn't be allowing the things they're allowing now. And considering how much Sakurai is aware of his demand, why would he leave all these breadcrumbs if they said no about him being playable?

The situation doesn't add up.

Something is going on there, and I'm not entirely convinced it's pessimistic like you perceive it to be.

''Here take the image rights to this character, we don't mind, but don't do the thing that will make us the most money off you having them."

 

[NineS]

Except, those were all Smash 4 Mii costumes
I get why you think he has a chance though


Can you blame me for being pessimistic Fisher

Could you perhaps try "realism"?
I've tried it. It's fantastic. It doesn't crush other's souls as much as pessimism, and it doesn't crush your own soul as much as optimist.

I speak from experience. Because, at one point, I too was once extremely optimistic for a few years. Then extremely pessimistic... Now Realism fits me best.

I do think that Geno not being in base could hypothetically maybe be a little explained by the fact that Squenix is just...so damn stingy.

No matter WHO it was their second rep would be DLC.

What y'all think?

I don't get why everyone keeps calling Squenix Stingy. Is it because of the music thing?
They've recently seemed to be pretty gracious when it comes to crossovers.

Granting, considering DLC is something they'll make money out of, it'll probably have to be a character they've really been pushing for or really want to push for in marketing.

 

[Idon]

All this Rex talk and no one's mentioned he has a cool af hand anchor. I love his anchor and all the things they did with it in the game.

The hand-anchor is undoubtedly cool.
However, I just don't like the rest of his design.

The diver helmet that hangs off him like a hoodie, his ramshackle diver suit that doesn't even cover him, and his skin-tight swimsuit underneath, just... don't appeal to me.

I actually actually really like his design when he goes diving and is completely covered up. It's like a mix between a knight's armor and a diving suit.

 

[PsySmasher]

Y'all aware Nintendo partially owns Cygames, right?

When did that transaction actually take place though?

 

[Deleted member]

Bottom of mid tier isn't much better, and he's far from being a viable pick regardless.

Shulk being bottom of mid tier? That is what the tier lists say, but I disagree.

The middle of mid tier works better for me, in my opinion.

 

[kylexv]

People seem to agree that Pikachu is very good.

He may be the first character the be the top character in two different Smash games at this rate.

 

[MyDude213]

And again i post something about Agumon's chances.
Some guy apear and start talking how Agumon has no chances.

Everytime.

At least tell me why Agumon has no chances.

From my experiences dealing with the same type of **** from people who have something against Sora in Smash they never actually have anything to say and are only saying it because it conflicts with whatever character they want instead. What I'm trying to get at is just ignore they're already biased there's no arguing with people like that.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Also, to show how varied initial impressions have been, here's Abadango's initial impressions:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

For reference: the list goes 'seems strong', 'seems normal', 'seems weak', 'don't know yet'.

As you can see, a number of characters are similar between the two lists (Pikachu, Zelda, Samus/Dark Samus, Bowser Jr.), but some like Young Link move up/down a tier while others like Ken drop like a rock. It's all up to interpretation based on limited data, and that can lead to starkly different impressions depending on what's being seen and who's doing the assessment.

Man, must be a monster among the levels of , , and

Has the Rat returned?

 

[Deleted member]

He may be the first character the be the top character in two different Smash games at this rate.

Sheik says hi.

EDIT: just noticed "the top." I lied.

 

[Lynn Eslie]

The idea that a character like Rex or another 1st party character getting in being "old news" is really the point. People like the character. Japanese fans sincerely love XC2 and Rex was a frontrunner for DLC.

XC2 also has Torna: The Golden Country. Sakurai has played, and loved the game, and it happened to be during Smash Ultimate's development time, so I imagine that had something to do with the Mii Fighter costume.

I simply don't think, after every fan rule has been BTFO, game after game, that we should start making new fan rules for future DLC characters. I would simply lay out the "eligible" characters as anyone who isn't already a playable character, a boss, or Assist Trophy. Maybe even lump stage elements in there.

The eligible characters, potentially, are anyone who happens to be a Spirit or a Mii Fighter Costume. That's my opinion anyway.

Agreed, especially on the matter of what is "eligible."

We ought be wary of labeling newer elements as deconfirmation in the same vein as Assist Trophies. We can assume with a reasonable degree of certainty that ATs will not also be Playable due to such an event never occurring throughout multiple sequels, which established a clear and consistent pattern. Due to this observation -though nothing says an AT can't be a fighter, and the possibility of it happening does technically exist- it's "safe" to consider such an occurrence statistically improbable, making ATs the closest we have to "Hard" deconfirmation.

The same can't be said of Mii Costumes. There are already several examples of playable fighters with costumes, such as Fox, Captain Falcon, and Link. Of course, one can argue that no character has had a Mii Costume before being added as DLC, but that's much shakier ground to stand on. While the claim is not untrue, there have currently only been 7 DLC fighters added in Smash post-Mii Costumes, so it has an incredibly small sample size to draw a conclusion from. We also do not yet know if the Inkling, Isabelle, and King K. Rool costumes have been removed, which adds further ambiguity to the idea. So then, the most compelling argument we have for "Mii Costumes won't be added for future DLC characters" is the idea that it would be at least a little strange to spend resources to develop a Mii Costume entirely as a temporary holdover. That argument still holds water, of course, but I would consider it more of a "Soft" deconfirmation, as it diminishes odds, but does not seem sensible to assume it entirely removes characters from the running.

Spirits, on the other hand, are a complete unknown that we simply do not know enough about to make calls any which way on. Assist Trophies, Mii Fighter Costumes, Pokeball Pokemon, Stage Hazards, etc have Spirits. Even if we assume a complete absence of playable fighter Spirits, until we actually get DLC in a post-Spirits world, we have no frame of reference by which to ascertain their capacity as a deconfirmation notice.




P.S.: I appear to have missed a long conversation about KOS-MOS two days ago; woe is me.

 

[Iridium]

Uh, Piranha Plant codes apparently have been sent out already to some people. Get yours if you can (if you want) soon.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Well, if that rumor is true, Thursday will be interesting.

 

[Noipoi]

Alright, here's ZeRo's full tier list. Ranked in order of best to worst from left to right, up to down. I think this is the final version of his list for now until the game's out.

Inkling, K Rool and Mewtwo in Promising
Isabelle, Pichu and Trainer in good
Incineroar in decent

It's over for you guys.

 

[Opossum]

Okay, favorite quote from any appearance a Smash Bros character is in...

Ready, GO!

Spoiler

"TAKE ME TO YOUR MASTER!" -Simon

"KING KAY ROOL, professional bad guy!" -K. Rool

This scene from Shadow Dragon singlehandedly made Marth one of my favorite Nintendo characters.

Nyna:
“Marth…perhaps you should let that wait, just until you are able to share their joy with them. We could send someone in your stead-“

Marth:
“No, that would not do. Today is a momentous day for my kingdom and my people. I must celebrate with them now, not later. Anything else would be a disservice to those who died to save Altea. I am a prince before I am a son or a brother. Come, Malledus. Let us go greet my people.”

Chrom's "You deserved better from me than one sword and a world of troubles" is also a great one, given the context.