Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Guybrush20X6]

Only thing I could think of if they were bringing something back, but it wasn’t done yet. Woolly World and Orbital Gate both were graphically intense so it may just not be finished in time for 8.8.

Or not. I’m really just spitballing. The only thing I know now is that nothing is out of the question now.

We need another news dump. The last direct just gave us one cute little puppy, not even a new remix in her trailer.

There’s probably still at least one major surprise coming, whether in the roster or stages or this new mode...

Speaking if remixes, everyone betting on an Animal Crossing one this week?

 

[majora_787]

Admittedly, an improved Smash Run that's like the subspace maze with actual game bosses sounds... intriguing? In its own way.

 

[Mr. Trumo]

I know it's just a funny Incineroar stand-in, but this gave me the best mental image.

*Final Direct, Tigger trailer plays*
*Sakurai sits at his desk in a Tigger onesie*

Sakurai: That's right, we've truly made the impossible possible. The lovable hoo-hoo-hoo-hooligan of the Hundred Acre Woods, Tigger springs into action. This once in a lifetime feat is only possible due to fan demand. During the Smash Ballot, Tigger ranked as the number one choice in both North America and Japan, and was second in Europe.

*Hundred Acre Woods*

Sakurai: We've also added a new stage, The Hundred Acre Woods. Bosses from throughout the series appear.

*Flashes to various "enemies" including a Heffalump, a Woozle, a Jagular, and the Backson*

*Music*

Sakurai: We've also added 68 songs from the Winnie the Pooh franchise, which is a favorite among our music team.

*Eeyore*

Sakurai: Finally, we've added Eeyore, son of Eroyee, as an Assist Trophy. The rain cloud above his head will shoot out lightning, so don't get too close.

...

Sakurai: Well, that's everything.

And then the website puts up a new song, "The Wonderful Thing About Tiggers (Rap Ver.)."



...Carry on with the box talk, folks.

Darn it. I want Tigger now.

 

[Potato_]

Speaking if remixes, everyone betting on an Animal Crossing one this week?

It's all but a given at this point, unless Sakurai decides to throw convention out the window.

 

[Noipoi]

If spirits is like SSE, who do you guys hope to see teaming up?

&. Old man Mario has to keep the fresh young delinquent out of trouble and (literally) clean up her messes.

&. The team up the worlds been waiting for (besides the Olympic games).

&&. The return of Samus and Pikachu, this time with THE BABY.

&&&. Bishie boys unite.

&&&. Trouble Kings.

& Isabelle. This is 100% based on those cute pictures, I will not lie.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

It's all but a given at this point, unless Sakurai decides to throw convention out the window.

I don' think they replace the glass in that window any more given how often he does that.

 

[Wyoming]

Ken and Incineroar make sense as "late" additions. They both wouldn't do so well as DLC compared to others. I'd have to guess that those two are non-ballot additions (definitely not Incineroar anyway due to timing)

I imagine they have other newcomers they wanted but they didn't have the time to promise them for the base roster, so "only" two more characters seems plausible.

 

[KMDP]

If spirits is like SSE, who do you guys hope to see teaming up?

Some fun pair-ups off the top of my head.
and
and
and
and Tails
and Isaac
and
and
and
and
and

 

[T-Hell]

I'm going to give them a bit more time, a few days at most, before I believe it is legit.

I mean, they SHOULD have already said something about it if it is a misprint or something because if that's the case they are spreading false information. But yeah, let's give them like a week. Come next Monday nothing have been stated by them, I'll personally take it as an unintended (or is it?) leak.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think people are setting themselves up for disappointments thinking that "Spirits" mode is gonna be like SSE. I mean, that would be awesome, but based on Sakurai's comments in the past and all the new stuff/hard work they've been putting into the characters and trailers, I really doubt they'd have enough time to do something similar, especially since there are more than 20 more characters than there were in Brawl :/

If that's the case, why even keep the mode a secret then? Unless it's a slightly more elaborate take on Melee's adventure mode.

The fanbase has misconstrued what Sakurai('s translator) has said before, and we'll invariably do it again.

When Sakurai talked about there being 103 Stages: even if he intended that to be taken as the final number by the fans, he could have been... you know... lying or otherwise misleading us. When he said about all stages being pre-unlocked, he could have been referring specifically to the 103 stages we could see on the screen during that segment.
Saying "[there's] a few more characters" could be deliberately downplaying the number.

Both statements could also be 100% accurate; we don't know yet and can't know.

Exactly! It's vague enough that we have no concrete idea how much there is left to reveal. It's finite enough to bring up in the next two months, that's all we know.

I really want to see this box issue settled. We've run enough circles to make a slinky.

Sadly, I don't think much will happen until after the 30th.

At least there's a couple more songs left to reveal until then.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I would like to see Ryu being himself, wandering alone and looking for challenges and keeps getting confused about where the hell he is and how things like Isabelle, Ridley and Pokémon have escaped notice in the world.

Then Bayonetta shows up and she’s like “Seems pretty tame to me...”

 

[Luigi The President]

Just got up and apparently Vergey snapped so hard in a GameFAQ's thread they made it unavailable for viewing LOL

 

[Noipoi]

While a new Subspace would be awesome, all I need Spirits to be is a fleshed out Melee adventure mode to be happy.

 

[GAINAX]

I don't think the Smashdown theory holds much water. If the final roster doesn't end up being divisible by 4, I'm sure the game will just remove a few characters from the roster at random when you start. They'll have to do this anyway to accommodate for future DLC characters.

Unless they plan to add them in waves of 4 characters at a time.

 

[osby]

Okay, Sonic and Mario may be cool but behold: & &

 

[Mc.Rad]

If spirits is like SSE, who do you guys hope to see teaming up?

& you know why

&& Look, they were the best group in SSE, they need a reunion tour. I'd also love to see thrown into the mix

& I want to see how Cloud can tolerate Pit's cheeriness

& Inkling would totally hang around somebody like Sonic.

Also if it happens, I kind do want to see Deathborn and Ridley team up.

 

[Deleted member]

Things the Smash fanbase considered or considers more sensical than the Box Theory:
-"don't expect too many fighters" is Sakurai trolling
-Music Theory
-furniture in the background
-Loz18
-CoroCoro having one bit of undisclosed info when they were just covering old info
-The CEO Demo leak
-Soren as a Robin Echo

Feel free to add onto this list

The Square Enix DLC thing also sits wrong with me because of the very nature of ''Everyone is Here" they started out with.

Let's just say by chance Geno just barely didn't get finished and they're releasing him as DLC (since I think we can all agree he's the most likely choice we're looking at), now let's look at Ridley and K. Rool who really go into the whole ''Everyone is Here" ultimate experience.

You're essentially saying to one fanbase. ''Sorry you just didn't make the cut, but you're a consolation prize."

Yeah, no. I can't see that happening with this game.

Is being a playable fighter really a "consolation prize"? Geno is not the only character with a fanbase and in this scenario he would at least be playable. You wouldn't make this argument about Waluigi, Ashley, Zero, etc. being left out, would you?

 

[Pakky]

While a new Subspace would be awesome, all I need Spirits to be is a fleshed out Melee adventure mode to be happy.

Spoiler: Bayo vs woomy

Simple wants.

Also MAKE THIS A WEAPON IN 3!!!

 

[KMDP]

Those 5 new stages HAVE to be tied with new characters, because if they were just returning stages from past games, then why even bother hiding them instead of showing them with the rest?

What if... let's say Mute City Melee has a huge visual overall and Sakurai wants to reveal that closer to release for reasons known only to the dev team(s).

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Am I the only one who likes the fact that the fighters are ordered by chronological order? I dunno, it just feels like i'm going through Smash history whenever I look at it.
However, I do hope there's some way to order it by series for those less sentimental than me.

It's great when you consider Ultimate as a celebration of the series, it releases just before Smash's 20 year anniversary aswell. It might be confusing for more casual players, and I'm not going to pretend every hardcore Smash fan loves it either, but personally I love it, going through the characters' numbers takes me back to how I felt when each of them were first revealed (at least for every character past the Melee roster).

 

[Aeon Lupin]

I just figured Echoes were Sakurais way of including some fan favorites that he either didn’t want to give full development time to, or couldn’t.

Sakurai tries to please as many people as possible, honestly I don’t think Ken is too weird of an echo to end on though. Back when he was first introduced he was basically Ryus echo. Heck the two of them even created the term “Shotoclone” which several fighting games have based several special moves and move inputs off of.

Even though as I stated pages and pages ago, Ken has diverged from Ryu, people still remember him from SF2 being a Ryu clone who had better kicks and fire.

Although with how Ryu takes a bit from SF4 as well, I’d be a little disappointed if they couldn’t do an Isabelle with Ken considering that’s how much the two have differed since SF2.

Then again if the box theory is ******** then I can totally hope/expect Shadow as well as Ken. But I can even in DLC.

Dark Samus and Samus have different animations and effects. I can see Ken's focus attack animation being his SF4 one, and flame effects added to his Shoryuken.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

if box theory is true, can you all please stop blaming people because nintendo failed the hype period?

Assuming box theory is true, like if they swapped around Inceneroar and Krool, and maybe left Dark Samus to be revealed alongside Ken, then the reveals would have had a much better pace, and the game would leave it's fans with a good feeling as the big request k rool caps off the hype period.

When announcing and releasing a game, it's better to announce the game with a big bang, and likely a month or less away from the final launch, leave fans with a serious sense of excitement. The Previous smash titles had the benefit of not showing their full hand pre release, which this one doesn't. Plus, this is the biggest smash deal since brawl, and arguably bigger than brawl, the switch is a bigger system, and they put every chip into Smash this year. Why do something anyone with moderate knowlege of the fanbase would probably not appreciate, end on the obligitory pokemon from newest reigon that every fan can see coming?

And don't give me "Fans expected too much anyway". This is an issue of pacing, Nintendo has full, 100% control of who, what and when every element of their games get revealed to the public. You could take the exact same amount of content, shuffle it around, and surprise, different public opinion. That's how marketing works, hype is a powerful tool that shouldn't be abused past your limits.

I believe the reason why the reveals are so frontloaded is because of pre-orders. Having hype reveals early on gets people to pre-order early, which gives retailers and Nintendo a better estimate of how exactly well the game will sell, along with making consumers to stick with their purchase of the game even if it is deemed underwhelming. People don’t really cancel their pre-order unless the developers mess up in a major way, and I can’t see a possible way that Smash could mess up, most people would buy the game already if it came out tomorrow with only what’s currently confirmed.

And the strategy worked so far, Smash Ultimate is best selling game of the year on Amazon, and that’s purely going by pre-order sales.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Real talk if you claim you're still excited for Ultimate after this theory you're lying to yourself

 

[osby]

While a new Subspace would be awesome, all I need Spirits to be is a fleshed out Melee adventure mode to be happy.

I'd be down for it if "fleshed out" means all franchises being included and the last bosses not being Mario characters with a paint job.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So this could be our final roster...
How would Ya'll rate it from a Scale of 1 to 10?

 

[MSmariosonic]

Real talk if you claim you're still excited for Ultimate after this theory you're lying to yourself

I couldn't be more excited for ultimate

 

[Mc.Rad]

Ken and Incineroar make sense as "late" additions. They both wouldn't do so well as DLC compared to others. I'd have to guess that those two are non-ballot additions (definitely not Incineroar anyway due to timing)

I imagine they have other newcomers they wanted but they didn't have the time to promise them for the base roster, so "only" two more characters seems plausible.

I'm gonna be real with you chief this don't seem right at all.

Like I could name a lot of more popular characters that could get in before them. I also honestly don't think we're getting any new Pokemon character since they oddly made this the first game where there is no new unique Mario Character. So if they're giving restraint to the Mario franchise, they will be giving restraint to other franchises as well. That's why I also assume that we'll just have Chrom in and that we will only get an Echo fighter for a Pokemon.

I also believe that Black Shadow is more likely to be a semi-clone of Falcon which is a shame, since I do wish they was more probability of this being a bigger splash like how some franchises get two newcomers like Mario or Kirby.

 

[DJ3DS]

In my very recent frustration that people think the roster number not being "nice" mathematically for a CSS is a good reason to dismiss the box, I actually whipped something up in the roster maker. Look at this and remember that I literally made it in 5-10 minutes on a fanmade program with no expertise in any kind of graphics whatsoever:

Spoiler: with echoes

Spoiler: echoes stacked

I kind of want box theory to be true now just for this

 

[Deleted member]

Real talk if you claim you're still excited for Ultimate after this theory you're lying to yourself

Uh...no? I was excited for Ultimate at E3. Any other characters after that were icing on the cake. You don't get to decide whether or not I'm allowed to be excited.

 

[Luigi The President]

Things the Smash fanbase considered or considers more sensical than the Box Theory:
-"don't expect too many fighters" is Sakurai trolling
-Music Theory
-furniture in the background
-Loz18
-CoroCoro having one bit of undisclosed info when they were just covering old info
-The CEO Demo leak
-Soren as a Robin Echo

Feel free to add onto this list

Is being a playable fighter really a "consolation prize"? Geno is not the only character with a fanbase and in this scenario he would at least be playable. You wouldn't make this argument about Waluigi, Ashley, Zero, etc. being left out, would you?

Where is the Corocoro correction?

 

[Potato_]

So this could be our final roster...
How would Ya'll rate it from a Scale of 1 to 10?

Give it a solid 9. There's no character that I see there and think "why the **** are they there?" Even Daisy I can see an argument for.

Plus oh my god Ridley and Chrom are characters


Only sad part is Dark Samus not having a unique moveset, and a few stragglers that I think should be represented in Smash. (Dixie, Isaac, Skull Kid, Geno, Banjo.)

 

[Mega Bidoof]

If spirits is like SSE, who do you guys hope to see teaming up?

*cracks knuckles

Isabelle and Snake or Ridley

K. Rool and Dedede, and maybe Wario too

Mario and Sonic

Captain Falcon and Incineroar

Link and Cloud

Simon, Richter and Luigi

Samus and Mega Man

Robin and Lucas

Olimar and Pokémon Trainer

Wolf and Ridley

Marth, Chrom, and Lucina

Bowser and Ganondorf (with Ganon being super stoic and Bowser being more comic)

Toon Link and any FE character

The Miis and Mr. Game & Watch

Probably a bunch more I can’t think of right now

 

[osby]

So this could be our final roster...
How would Ya'll rate it from a Scale of 1 to 10?

7/10. Not bad, Isabelle reveal pulled it up from 4.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Real talk if you claim you're still excited for Ultimate after this theory you're lying to yourself

Except maybe some of us are just really happy that all veteran are returning and don't mind Incineroar? We're talking about a roster that's pushing 70 unique fighters here.

 

[domriver]

Smash fans, after K.Rool reveal: "I can't believe every single newcomer is from the ballot and Sakurai loves the fans! "
Smash fans, after Isabelle reveal: "I can't believe K.Rool and Ridley were the only ballot picks and the rest is all promotional. Sakurai hates from the fans! "

I expect riot if next reveal is not Geno/Skull Kid/Isaac neither.

VS

and

which will result in if Geno is not in Smash Ultimate.

 

[Opossum]

Real talk if you claim you're still excited for Ultimate after this theory you're lying to yourself

Not at all. I get to play as Chrom in a Smash Bros. game, how could I not be excited?

 

[monadoboy]

Real talk if you claim you're still excited for Ultimate after this theory you're lying to yourself

Why?

EVERYONE IS HERE! is the hypest thing possible.

 

[Deleted member]

So this could be our final roster...
How would Ya'll rate it from a Scale of 1 to 10?

10, but not for any of these losers.

These guys are where it's at:

 

[drag0nscythe]

I'm confused. Aren't we agreeing?

We maybe. I am in to many places at once.
Sorry.

Is you icon Gundam Wing?

 

[papagenos]

if box theory is true, can you all please stop blaming people because nintendo failed the hype period?

Assuming box theory is true, like if they swapped around Inceneroar and Krool, and maybe left Dark Samus to be revealed alongside Ken, then the reveals would have had a much better pace, and the game would leave it's fans with a good feeling as the big request k rool caps off the hype period.

When announcing and releasing a game, it's better to announce the game with a big bang, and likely a month or less away from the final launch, leave fans with a serious sense of excitement. The Previous smash titles had the benefit of not showing their full hand pre release, which this one doesn't. Plus, this is the biggest smash deal since brawl, and arguably bigger than brawl, the switch is a bigger system, and they put every chip into Smash this year. Why do something anyone with moderate knowlege of the fanbase would probably not appreciate, end on the obligitory pokemon from newest reigon that every fan can see coming?

And don't give me "Fans expected too much anyway". This is an issue of pacing, Nintendo has full, 100% control of who, what and when every element of their games get revealed to the public. You could take the exact same amount of content, shuffle it around, and surprise, different public opinion. That's how marketing works, hype is a powerful tool that shouldn't be abused past your limits.

legit, part of the reason i think geno will be base roster and the final reveal. ridley at e3, k rool at the smash direct, geno at the end as a surprise final character (kept off the box and stuff). three highly requested ballot choices and spread out throughout the smash reveal cycle, and it fits with vergeben.

this way we end on character #70 instead of #69 in a game with emphasis on numbering the characters.

and while i dont really agree with the smashdown theory (as it would be unplayable until the roster is fully unlocked and you wouldnt be able to buy just one dlc character or you'd throw off the needed smash down roster number) i do think it makes sense that the base roster of the game SHOULD work cleanly for smashdown, just from a development point of view you'd think when coming up with the idea it should "work" and playing it should have you exhaust the full roster by the end.

that said, Box Theory actually DOESNT fit with smashdown. smashdown needs 72 characters, which appears to fit with Box Thoery (in fact I thought it did myself and have been saying as much) BUT smashdown DOESNT involve the Mii fighters and box Theory DOES.

So we end up with 71 fighters for smash down...unless you add one MORE character to the Box Theory, as in Vergebens final character, a square rep saved for the end as a surprise kept off the box and promotional material and placing us at character #70 instead of ending at an awkward #69 AND actually getting smashdown to the assumed necessary number of 72.

im not concerned about genos chances and base roster or dlc with vergebens leak he seems extremely likely BUT legitimately I think the evidence is there that we are getting geno base roster as the final reveal.