Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[blackghost]

Square Enix rep is probably DLC and it's probably Geno and itll probably happen early 2019.

I feel like people have talked themself into believing this abd will be disappointed when it doesnt happen. Geno is not a good rep for se. Hes not big enough to be such.

 

[Opossum]

I mean I certainly applaud trusting your gut. I don't mean anything hurtful by saying you're better than this.

I just personally think that so many of you are smart intelligent people and I can see some reasons to believe it, but ya'll are swearing by it and it's just something to me with far too many assumptions based on ''This can't change" to make it set in stone.

You said one of them yourself just there. The Square character has to be DLC.

And that's to me why I can't co-sign. Normally I would be on a side with people of the nature that are co-signing this theory, but there's just far far far far too many variables that you guys are assuming are not gonna happen to make it work.

I get that, but at the same time I just feel like people are completely writing it off far too easily. Ideally, yeah, there would be a middle ground, but people seem to either be completely in one camp or the other with no give to be had.

The only other thing I could think of is maybe Square Enix had an issue with their characters being on the box, meaning we'd get Incineroar, 2SE, Ken, and another echo in Ken's row (Medusa/Ms. Pac-Man/Celica if you stretch it), but that just takes even more assumptions into play.

 

[MargnetMan23]

I mean, remember the Smashdown segment in the last direct? They showed a 7 row roster there, I'd have to imagine the character select screen would look similar.

So, any theories regarding music? (not that dang website one)

From what we've seen so far, and taking Smash 4's music into account, I'd say we can estimate 200-sumthin to about 400-500 sumthin unique tracks. Unless Spirits mode or the Other section is jam-packed with more, how would we reach the total of 800?

Also, regarding the box: is it outlandish to believe that simply not every character would be on it?

I'm pretty sure there's way more than 200 songs in Smash 4. I think it's prob like, 500 or so thereabouts. Add like 50 from freaking Splatoon and Castlevania alone and... maybe bring back some Brawl and Melee music tracks that were cut? IDK how many of those there are... and the rest are brand new. Prob.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Those 5 new stages HAVE to be tied with new characters, because if they were just returning stages from past games, then why even bother hiding them instead of showing them with the rest?

 

[Pakky]

If spirits is like SSE, who do you guys hope to see teaming up?

I need it

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Everything just fits way too well that Ken and Incineroar are all that's left to me. Personally I'm banking on the Square Enix character being DLC that gets announced early a la Mewtwo.

I mean you're fine to not believe it, but saying I'm "better than this" isn't really cool, man. :/ I just think this has a lot going for it. It's the same feeling I had with the ESRB leak, and I trusted my gut then, so I'll do so again now, is all.

All this is taking me back to the ESRB leak, when people (myself included) were saying that it must have been an incomplete profile because Sakurai “HAD to include Mewtwo and Ridley,” and that Shulk, Duck Hunt, and Bowser Jr. “just COULDN’T” be the final characters.

 

[SlickWylde]

I think people are setting themselves up for disappointments thinking that "Spirits" mode is gonna be like SSE. I mean, that would be awesome, but based on Sakurai's comments in the past and all the new stuff/hard work they've been putting into the characters and trailers, I really doubt they'd have enough time to do something similar, especially since there are more than 20 more characters than there were in Brawl :/

 

[Deleted member]

I haven't bothered to actually dig through this thread for it, but I guess as an alternative subject. I'm curious to hear Smashboards' opinions on the Castle Siege / Black Knight thing that came up after the august direct.

The guy in the background on Castle Siege was never Black Knight, so it means nothing.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I feel like people have talked themself into believing this abd will be disappointed when it doesnt happen. Geno is not a good rep for se. Hes not big enough to be such.

Excuse you? Excuse me for excusing you? Is it even right to excuse this? Ouch, man.

 

[Potato_]

Those 5 new stages HAVE to be tied with new characters, because if they were just returning stages from past games, then why even bother hiding them instead of showing them with the rest?

I'm leaning towards this too, but remember they could just be other stages from series without character representation, and they hid them to prevent speculation on whether those series would get characters.

I do agree though, hidden stages implies there's a reason as to why they would hide them, which past stages have no reason for.

"Alright we revealed 90% of the stages from past games, but those ones? Nah they stay hidden."

Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[papagenos]

Those 5 new stages HAVE to be tied with new characters, because if they were just returning stages from past games, then why even bother hiding them instead of showing them with the rest?

They could also be stages with no characters but they are new.

we have things like hanenbow and the tomodatchi life stage.

monster hunter/minecraft/rhythm heaven these could all get stages and they could be "new" series and be repped with just the stages and no characters, or of course we could just get new stages for existing series.

just saying its possible.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Those 5 new stages HAVE to be tied with new characters, because if they were just returning stages from past games, then why even bother hiding them instead of showing them with the rest?

You’re ignoring the very possible idea that they’re new stages that aren’t tied to a newcomer, like we already see in New Donk City and Great Plateau Tower.

 

[KMDP]

Just because Sakurai said this does not = truth in this theory or it being Nintendo's mindset that revealing final number is okay.

The fanbase has misconstrued what Sakurai('s translator) has said before, and we'll invariably do it again.

When Sakurai talked about there being 103 Stages: even if he intended that to be taken as the final number by the fans, he could have been... you know... lying or otherwise misleading us. When he said about all stages being pre-unlocked, he could have been referring specifically to the 103 stages we could see on the screen during that segment.
Saying "[there's] a few more characters" could be deliberately downplaying the number.

Both statements could also be 100% accurate; we don't know yet and can't know.

The box theory may or may not be true. We won’t officially know until either it releases or we get an echo not between Paly and Cloud or two newbies.

What’s annoying about it is it shut down everything. We can’t speculate anymore, since invariably one or more people will come in and tell us it’s impossible since the box exists. Speculation for DLC, if the box is true, should then still be valid, but all speculation here just focuses on solely Ken and Incineroar.

At this point, I’d just be interested in gettihg more news that doesn’t involve the same rehashed topics. Has anyone found any cool new mechanics from the Best Buy demos?

"WHO DARES SPECULATE AGAINST THE MIGHTY VERGELBERGEL!?"

Seriously, though, Vergeben's list might be incomplete (and I believe he's actually said as much himself), you know, just like Gematsu.

I get not wanting to get your hopes up, but don't drag others down with you. If they end up disappointed, that's their problem, not yours.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'm pretty sure there's way more than 200 songs in Smash 4. I think it's prob like, 500 or so thereabouts. Add like 50 from freaking Splatoon and Castlevania alone and... maybe bring back some Brawl and Melee music tracks that were cut? IDK how many of those there are... and the rest are brand new. Prob.

I know Smash 4 had around 400-sumthin, now I'm remembering it nearing 500.

So, I guess it wouldn't be far off from 800 in reality I was starting to estimate 600-700 sumthin, but that still fits what Sakurai says since it was likely his own estimate.

 

[PsySmasher]

Those 5 new stages HAVE to be tied with new characters, because if they were just returning stages from past games, then why even bother hiding them instead of showing them with the rest?

They could be from franchises, either 1st or 3rd party, that don't have any playable reps. The Monster Hunter boss stage will more than likely have an actual stage counterpart, which hasn't been officially revealed/confirmed yet.

Plus if the "box theory" is true, we more than likely wouldn't be getting Monster Hunter in the base roster.

And then there's Verg's Minecraft prediction.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

You’re ignoring the very possible idea that they’re new stages that aren’t tied to a newcomer, like we already see in New Donk City and Great Plateau Tower.

They could also be stages with no characters but they are new.

we have things like hanenbow and the tomodatchi life stage.

monster hunter/minecraft/rhythm heaven these could all get stages and they could be "new" series and be repped with just the stages and no characters, or of course we could just get new stages for existing series.

just saying its possible.

I agree with these but still, why hide stages even if they're new? It's not like they cause a lot of hype like character reveals or anything, theýre just stages.

 

[Pakky]

I feel like people have talked themself into believing this abd will be disappointed when it doesnt happen. Geno is not a good rep for se. Hes not big enough to be such.

Costumes man. Costumes.

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

if box theory is true, can you all please stop blaming people because nintendo failed the hype period?

Assuming box theory is true, like if they swapped around Inceneroar and Krool, and maybe left Dark Samus to be revealed alongside Ken, then the reveals would have had a much better pace, and the game would leave it's fans with a good feeling as the big request k rool caps off the hype period.

When announcing and releasing a game, it's better to announce the game with a big bang, and likely a month or less away from the final launch, leave fans with a serious sense of excitement. The Previous smash titles had the benefit of not showing their full hand pre release, which this one doesn't. Plus, this is the biggest smash deal since brawl, and arguably bigger than brawl, the switch is a bigger system, and they put every chip into Smash this year. Why do something anyone with moderate knowlege of the fanbase would probably not appreciate, end on the obligitory pokemon from newest reigon that every fan can see coming?

And don't give me "Fans expected too much anyway". This is an issue of pacing, Nintendo has full, 100% control of who, what and when every element of their games get revealed to the public. You could take the exact same amount of content, shuffle it around, and surprise, different public opinion. That's how marketing works, hype is a powerful tool that shouldn't be abused past your limits.

 

[Mr. Trumo]

I think people are setting themselves up for disappointments thinking that "Spirits" mode is gonna be like SSE. I mean, that would be awesome, but based on Sakurai's comments in the past and all the new stuff/hard work they've been putting into the characters and trailers, I really doubt they'd have enough time to do something similar, especially since there are more than 20 more characters than there were in Brawl :/

Absolutely. It would be awesome, but I don't see it happening.

 

[Deleted member]

I know Smash 4 had around 400-sumthin, now I'm remembering it nearing 500.

So, I guess it wouldn't be far off from 800 in reality I was starting to estimate 600-700 sumthin, but that still fits what Sakurai says since it was likely his own estimate.

Smash 4 has over 450 without DLC, and over 500 with.

 

[zauberdragon]

I’m reading all the talk about roster sizes and box theory, sat here just wishing the roster was organised by game series rather than chronological from their appareance in smash. That’s the real struggle facing ultimate.

 

[Exalt4747]

I really want to see this box issue settled. We've run enough circles to make a slinky.

 

[Pakky]

I really want to see this box issue settled. We've run enough circles to make a slinky.

SPRINGMAN!!!!!

 

[osby]

If spirits is like SSE, who do you guys hope to see teaming up?

and
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and
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and
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and

 

[majora_787]

That's the thing with "a few more reveals" and "don't expect too many newcomers".

- A few more reveals lowers expectations and allows room for surprise, since when people think 'a few' they usually think like. Literally three. But alternatively he could have said "A lot", which would cause problems, or he could have said "Some" which is almost a nonstatement.

- "Too many newcomers" is kind of devoid of context. I said earlier, but if we got 8 more characters, 4 newcomers and 4 echoes -- My maximum guess -- we would have a roster just a little larger than Melee's in terms of unique newcomers added. Is that too many? It would be distinctly less than Brawl or Smash 4. We also, as far as I can tell, don't know if he means fully unique fighters or echo fighters.

A lot of conclusions can be made, but these statements aren't horribly conclusive. But that's probably for the best, since it's still letting speculation go out and be what it is.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

if box theory is true, can you all please stop blaming people because nintendo failed the hype period?

Assuming box theory is true, like if they swapped around Inceneroar and Krool, and maybe left Dark Samus to be revealed alongside Ken, then the reveals would have had a much better pace, and the game would leave it's fans with a good feeling as the big request k rool caps off the hype period.

When announcing and releasing a game, it's better to announce the game with a big bang, and likely a month or less away from the final launch, leave fans with a serious sense of excitement. The Previous smash titles had the benefit of not showing their full hand pre release, which this one doesn't. Plus, this is the biggest smash deal since brawl, and arguably bigger than brawl, the switch is a bigger system, and they put every chip into Smash this year. Why do something anyone with moderate knowlege of the fanbase would probably not appreciate, end on the obligitory pokemon from newest reigon that every fan can see coming?

And don't give me "Fans expected too much anyway". This is an issue of pacing, Nintendo has full, 100% control of who, what and when every element of their games get revealed to the public. You could take the exact same amount of content, shuffle it around, and surprise, different public opinion. That's how marketing works, hype is a powerful tool that shouldn't be abused past your limits.

I'm kind of shocked that people seem to think everyone will just accept that the last few characters are Ken and Incineroar after like a month or two.
There is a large, LARGE number of people who, to this day, are still bitter and pissed off about Sm4sh's roster.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I agree with these but still, why hide stages even if they're new? It's not like they cause a lot of hype like character reveals do or anything, theýre just stages.

Maybe because they’ll be something to cause some excitement and discussion if there really are only two characters left.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

If spirits is like SSE, who do you guys hope to see teaming up?

I wanna see Mario team up properly with Sonic and Megaman.

I wanna see Link and Cloud do a fight then work together. The fanbase would go wild.

Bring back the trio of Marth, Metaknight and Ike.

Have Chrom find a fainted Pokémon trainer and do the Awakening opening scene.

Snake, Falco, Bayo and Palutena purely for the snark fest

Have Sheik and Greninja work with Corrin being like his/her Ninjas from Birthright.

Have Bowser, Dedede, Ganondorf and K Rool fight together and then each other for the true King Tussle.

Have Ryu just literally wandering between all the little teams as that’s what he does.

The return of Samus and Pikachu, but then force them to begrudging work with Ridley.

Ness and Shulk can try to stop the calamity because of Psychic powers and future sight.

The possibilities are endless.

 

[Noipoi]

Am I the only one who likes the fact that the fighters are ordered by chronological order? I dunno, it just feels like i'm going through Smash history whenever I look at it.
However, I do hope there's some way to order it by series for those less sentimental than me.

 

[Potato_]

If spirits is like SSE, who do you guys hope to see teaming up?

I just want to see Bayo with anyone. And hopefully she has voice lines.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Those 5 new stages HAVE to be tied with new characters, because if they were just returning stages from past games, then why even bother hiding them instead of showing them with the rest?

Only two alternate theories on that

A. Because they're tied to bosses like Dracula
B. Because they're retro stages that needed more time in the oven like Rainbow Road 3DS or Mute City Melee (Complete Remake of a 3DS game and redoign a stage that was 90% fog.)

That said, I still think that a new series is involved.

 

[Opossum]

Attempt 2:
View attachment 164953
In game, the bottom row would be centered. Any less than 13 splits up the N64 characters, and I hate that. This also puts all the new guys on the bottom.

I know it's just a funny Incineroar stand-in, but this gave me the best mental image.

*Final Direct, Tigger trailer plays*
*Sakurai sits at his desk in a Tigger onesie*

Sakurai: That's right, we've truly made the impossible possible. The lovable hoo-hoo-hoo-hooligan of the Hundred Acre Woods, Tigger springs into action. This once in a lifetime feat is only possible due to fan demand. During the Smash Ballot, Tigger ranked as the number one choice in both North America and Japan, and was second in Europe.

*Hundred Acre Woods*

Sakurai: We've also added a new stage, The Hundred Acre Woods. Bosses from throughout the series appear.

*Flashes to various "enemies" including a Heffalump, a Woozle, a Jagular, and the Backson*

*Music*

Sakurai: We've also added 68 songs from the Winnie the Pooh franchise, which is a favorite among our music team.

*Eeyore*

Sakurai: Finally, we've added Eeyore, son of Eroyee, as an Assist Trophy. The rain cloud above his head will shoot out lightning, so don't get too close.

...

Sakurai: Well, that's everything.

And then the website puts up a new song, "The Wonderful Thing About Tiggers (Rap Ver.)."



...Carry on with the box talk, folks.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm leaning towards this too, but remember they could just be other stages from series without character representation, and they hid them to prevent speculation on whether those series would get characters.

I do agree though, hidden stages implies there's a reason as to why they would hide them, which past stages have no reason for.

"Alright we revealed 90% of the stages from past games, but those ones? Nah they stay hidden."

Doesn't make sense to me.

Only thing I could think of if they were bringing something back, but it wasn’t done yet. Woolly World and Orbital Gate both were graphically intense so it may just not be finished in time for 8.8.

Or not. I’m really just spitballing. The only thing I know now is that nothing is out of the question now.

We need another news dump. The last direct just gave us one cute little puppy, not even a new remix in her trailer.

There’s probably still at least one major surprise coming, whether in the roster or stages or this new mode...

 

[DJ3DS]

The Unown is a nice touch for Incineroar the mystery final box theory character.

Don't get me wrong, I believe Incineroar is on his way, but if I put an Unown there it apparently upsets fewer people!

I believe that a roster of this size won't have rows of 15 characters, since it's already difficult enough to find your fighter due to the size. Having everything on 5 rows seems extremely counter-intuitive, but that's just my opinion.

Don't forget also that that roster was made in Roster Maker, which uses Vertically long Character Images, while Smash itself uses Horizontally long Character Images, DJ3DS' hypothetical roster would be incredibly wide.

OK, I can't believe I'm doing this, but I will give you another arrangements to illustrate a point.

First though, you need to understand the point I'm making. The CSS screen will be chosen to fit the roster, not the other way round. This idea seems to be a relic from the beautifully arranged Brawl roster that conveniently forgets Brawl had characters axed during development. Stop looking for hypothetical "nice" numbers for roster selection! We are all guilty of doing it when making our fantasy rosters, but the truth is it's never gonna happen that way. This is a plain and simple fact that is true independently of whether you subscribe to the box theory or not.

Anyway, here you go:

You could also have the first and bottom row indented for more symmetry. I don't care which you prefer. Point is you can easily arrange things to make it work and stop pretending otherwise just to help dismiss a theory out of hand.

 

[TheCJBrine]

If Spirits isn't a new story mode, what do yall think it could be?

It may just end up as something completely new, but I'm thinking it's some sort-of Adventure Mode, maybe on a level between Melee's and Brawl's SSE. The new bosses could be fought in this mode.

Or it's "Smash Run DELUXE"

 

[osby]

I just want to see Bayo with anyone. And hopefully she has voice lines.

I don't even need full voice acting, just make her pull a "ask your mom" to K.Rool.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I know it's just a funny Incineroar stand-in, but this gave me the best mental image.

*Final Direct, Tigger trailer plays*
*Sakurai sits at his desk in a Tigger onesie*

Sakurai: That's right, we've truly made the impossible possible. The lovable hoo-hoo-hoo-hooligan of the Hundred Acre Woods, Tigger springs into action. This once in a lifetime feat is only possible due to fan demand. During the Smash Ballot, Tigger ranked as the number one choice in both North America and Japan, and was second in Europe.

*Hundred Acre Woods*

Sakurai: We've also added a new stage, The Hundred Acre Woods. Bosses from throughout the series appear.

*Flashes to various "enemies" including a Heffalump, a Woozle, a Jagular, and the Backson*

*Music*

Sakurai: We've also added 68 songs from the Winnie the Pooh franchise, which is a favorite among our music team.

*Eeyore*

Sakurai: Finally, we've added Eeyore, son of Eroyee, as an Assist Trophy. The rain cloud above his head will shoot out lightning, so don't get too close.

...

Sakurai: Well, that's everything.

And then the website puts up a new song, "The Wonderful Thing About Tiggers (Rap Ver.)."



...Carry on with the box talk, folks.

And Sora is behind a tree in every scene in the background. Crying.

 

[Deleted member]

I know it's just a funny Incineroar stand-in, but this gave me the best mental image.

*Final Direct, Tigger trailer plays*
*Sakurai sits at his desk in a Tigger onesie*

Sakurai: That's right, we've truly made the impossible possible. The lovable hoo-hoo-hoo-hooligan of the Hundred Acre Woods, Tigger springs into action. This once in a lifetime feat is only possible due to fan demand. During the Smash Ballot, Tigger ranked as the number one choice in both North America and Japan, and was second in Europe.

*Hundred Acre Woods*

Sakurai: We've also added a new stage, The Hundred Acre Woods. Bosses from throughout the series appear.

*Flashes to various "enemies" including a Heffalump, a Woozle, a Jagular, and the Backson*

*Music*

Sakurai: We've also added 68 songs from the Winnie the Pooh franchise, which is a favorite among our music team.

*Eeyore*

Sakurai: Finally, we've added Eeyore, son of Eroyee, as an Assist Trophy. The rain cloud above his head will shoot out lightning, so don't get too close.

...

Sakurai: Well, that's everything.

And then the website puts up a new song, "The Wonderful Thing About Tiggers (Rap Ver.)."



...Carry on with the box talk, folks.

Oh my god...
That is the best timeline, so long as one of those 68 songs is the Winnie the Pooh's Home Run Derby theme.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The Square Enix DLC thing also sits wrong with me because of the very nature of ''Everyone is Here" they started out with.

Let's just say by chance Geno just barely didn't get finished and they're releasing him as DLC (since I think we can all agree he's the most likely choice we're looking at), now let's look at Ridley and K. Rool who really go into the whole ''Everyone is Here" ultimate experience.

You're essentially saying to one fanbase. ''Sorry you just didn't make the cut, but you're a consolation prize."

Yeah, no. I can't see that happening with this game.

 

[KMDP]

OK, I can't believe I'm doing this, but I will give you another arrangements to illustrate a point.

First though, you need to understand the point I'm making. The CSS screen will be chosen to fit the roster, not the other way round. This idea seems to be a relic from the beautifully arranged Brawl roster that conveniently forgets Brawl had characters axed during development. Stop looking for hypothetical "nice" numbers for roster selection! We are all guilty of doing it when making our fantasy rosters, but the truth is it's never gonna happen that way. This is a plain and simple fact that is true independently of whether you subscribe to the box theory or not.

My point about your roster wasn't necessarily that it would look good or bad, my point was that it wouldn't fit on the screen.