Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ThyCheshireCat]

Here’s something fun to try:

Add one, promote one, and rosterblock one. (Add a newcomer, promote an AT, pokeball, boss, item, hazard, game element, trophy), and deny a roster addition to an unconfirmed newcomer.

Add one: Elma
Promote one: Takamaru
Rosterblock one: Ashley

Add one: Marx
Promote one: If we're only counting older games then Kraid, if the upcoming game is counted then Kumatora (who is currently part of Lucas' FS as of Smash Ultimate)
Block one: Steve

 

[PeridotGX]

Add: King K. Rool
Promote: Samurai Goroh
Block: Shadow

That graph does show a surprising lack of SNES characters. Weird considering that's where people view it as the golden age of gaming for Nintendo.

On a side note, Villager is not N64.

Actually yes it is. The First AC game was Japan exclusive for the N64, which later got a Gamecube Port. We got the Gamecube one.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Did you guys see this? Pretty cool seeing how much a console is representative

Credit:https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/8vhpvp/console_representation_in_ssbu_so_far/

Coool but inaccurate. Meta Knight should be on the NES not the gameboy as his debut was Kirby's Adventure. Also Pichu whould be by itself in the Game Boy Color. And if goign the full distance, Sonic should be on Arcade thanks to Rad Mobile.

 

[Wyoming]

Huh, that's neat. Kind of explains why they were so blocky, even for early GCN.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

This is cool. Really surprised by the lack of DS character representation as the console was super successful... but were there even many breakouts during that period? All we got were stuff like Nintendogs or Brain Age which are a bit unconventional. I guess there's professor Layton for 3rd party options?

Stuff like Rhythm Heaven and Golden Sun could still work their way up for GBA representation, and Wii U has Elma at least.

The Ouendan and Elite Beat Agents were notable enough by fans to be Smash requests for a while.

 

[AlphaSSB]

What's the game we're playing now? Add a character, promote a character, block a character? Sure.

Add: Slippy Toad
Promote: Krystal
Block: Just about any 3rd Party of Fire Emblem character could take this spot. If I had to choose one though, probably Steve from Minecraft.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Add: King K. Rool
Promote: Samurai Goroh
Block: Shadow.

You, yeah, you, I like you.

 

[Wyoming]

Why are people so against third parties? There's more hype outsiders than remaining Nintendo characters for me.

 

[blackghost]

One FE newcomer that I think would be great for Smash is Fjorm. A lancer so no one can complain about sword fatigue, and she has ice powers how 'cool' is that?

if she got in i'd want to see the Waluigi fans reactions.
i'm a terribe person.

 

[Cosmic77]

Why are people so against third parties? There's more hype outsiders than remaining Nintendo characters for me.

For me personally, it's because I grew up with Nintendo. Most of these popular third-parties don't interest me in the slightest, and I'd honestly be fine if we didn't get any more in this game. Seven is already a decent number.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know how relevant to the topic this is, but I plan on trying out one of the DS WarioWare games soon, to see where all the Ashley hype comes from.
I usually don't go out of my way to learn what a character is all about like that, but since WarioWare games aren't supposed to be very long and I'm not in the middle of any other important game right now, I figured I might as well give them a go.

 

[SlickWylde]

so July 1st is here. Sonic and Knuckles is on the blog. Was there not lots of leaks pointing to a reveal today for either Banjo-Kazooie or King K Rool. So we can now dismiss how many leaks? On to the next which says July 9th seems to be the next one in line. LOL

It'll just keep happening and being postponed, and people will keep giving it attention.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Why are people so against third parties? There's more hype outsiders than remaining Nintendo characters for me.

For me it's primarily because I mostly only play Nintendo games and so those are the characters I'm most interested in. I'd also perfer to keep this a celebration of Nintendo, so I don't mind a rep of Nintendo's history (Sonic, MegaMan) but I don't think the series as a whole needs representation.

And then for some reps, I just think Nintendo characters have more polish and are better designed (looking at you Crash and Rayman).

But it's all just personal and subjective so I don't expect to influence others nor do I really argue about it with others. If anything maybe I'll partake in a discussion about third party series getting multiple reps.

I don't know how relevant to the topic this is, but I plan on trying out one of the DS WarioWare games soon, to see where all the Ashley hype comes from.
I usually don't go out of my way to learn what a character is all about like that, but since WarioWare games aren't supposed to be very long and I'm not in the middle of any other important game right now, I figured I might as well give them a go.

Heads up if you've never played a Wario Ware game before the characters have little to no influence in the game. Seriously, everything you know about Ashley know will be what you get out of any of the games with her in it. Warioware reps are kind of hard to represent, which is why we haven't got one yet and why only the popular Ashley is even mentioned.

 

[Roberk]

So if Chrom was an echo of Ike, what properties would he have to differentiate him? In the GameXplain interview with Bill Trinen and some other Nintendo representative, they said that an Echo must borrow weight, speed, animations, and other things to really be an "echo" (Probably includes jump height, fall speed too).

What would they change about Chrom? Just knockback angles and some minor visual stuff, sort of like what it appears Daisy is getting?

Other than Lucina with no tipper actually making quite a difference, Echoes at this point are such minimal changes in gameplay that they are more like alt costumes with their own slot on the CSS with unique victory animations, taunts, etc.

At this point, I really don't care about characters having big new gimmicks or different stats for gameplay. I just want to play as the character. I think that's the mentality of Chrom Echo supporters (and all Echo supporters), they don't care that he wouldn't be different, they care that they get to fight as their favorite character in Smash.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

so July 1st is here. Sonic and Knuckles is on the blog. Was there not lots of leaks pointing to a reveal today for either Banjo-Kazooie or King K Rool. So we can now dismiss how many leaks? On to the next which says July 9th seems to be the next one in line. LOL

Now they're just gonna move the goalposts to the anniversary of Diddy Kong Racing

 

[MBRedboy31]

Why are people so against third parties? There's more hype outsiders than remaining Nintendo characters for me.

Some things I’ve seen said are that it’s because it’s supposed to be a Nintendo fighting game, so third parties should stay out or only have smaller roles as part of being “guests,” so, a type of purism.

Really, though, while Smash used to be a Nintendo fighting game, it’s becoming more of a celebration of gaming in general of series that have appeared on Nintendo hardware. In this field, it has no equal; as Sakurai said, it is the most ambitious crossover in all of gaming. Where else are we going to find these kinds of matchups? Will any equitable series ever exist? Why try to diminish how amazing of an event in gaming history this is? For characters people don’t care about, why not use this as an opportunity to learn about them and learn why they’re so beloved?

 

[Wyoming]

Not sure how you guys coped with Nintendo's drought of games. There's plenty of quality games outside of Nintendo waiting to be played. Each to their own, though. I was exposed to both sides of gaming young, so that helps I am sure.

But for Nintendo characters they are four left for me to be excited about: K. Rool, Dixie, Black Shadow, and Paper Mario (64-SPM inspired only). Comparing that to the plethora of 3rd parties such as Master Chief, Rayman, Banjo, Phoenix Wright, Bomberman (RIP), and even ones from exciting titles I've never played like Sora, Lara Croft, Crash Bandicoot, Simon Belmont and Scorpion it's a no brainer which ones I'd be more personally excited about.

We're now at the point that Smash has had more games with third parties than without 'em. It's no longer breaking tradition, really.

 

[Roberk]

I mean personally my Wind Mage preference lies elsewhere.

Anima mage to open the door to limitless echoes when.

 

[Deleted member]

Heads up if you've never played a Wario Ware game before the characters have little to no influence in the game. Seriously, everything you know about Ashley know will be what you get out of any of the games with her in it. Warioware reps are kind of hard to represent, which is why we haven't got one yet and why only the popular Ashley is even mentioned.

I believe I've played the original, so I'm aware of that.
Is there nothing to draw moveset potential from, though?

 

[Noipoi]

Another game? Alrighty then.

Add One: Mimikyu
Promote One: Ashley (From AT and Mii costume)
Block One: Steve or Rabbids


Best Outcome: The remaining fan favorites get in. K. Rool, Geno, Ashley, everyone! But Sakurai still gets to be little crazy with the other newcomers.

Satisfying Outcome: Ashley. That's all I need.

Basic Outcome: We get a few newcomers that aren't stupid (Like the Rabbids) and i'm fine. Really this game already looks amazing it would take a lot at this point.

Worst Outcome: The game has barely any content for single player, that would suck. Also NO ASHLEY!

 

[Roberk]

We need a character reveal soon. I have a feeling whoever gets shown next will probably be some new waifu character or feminine anime boy, though, so I'm worried.

Seriously though, what the hell happened to good character designs? Are Japanese game designers afraid to stray away from the generic anime face?

People come for the usual waifu/husbando, but they stay, for the personality.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Add One: Banjo & Kazooie
Promote One: Isaac
Rosterblock One: As much as I would like to block Shadow (because for a start I don't really like Shadow, I'd prefer Tails and secondly I don't like the idea of a third party echo fighter, it feels like it sort of cheapens the third party roster to have a clone character in it) I'll pass on this, because honestly I don't think I'd have any place blocking anyone if I were to get my two most wanted characters.

I'd only really consider blocking Shadow if I thought it made Tails more likely. (but it probably wouldn't, so I don't think I'd block anyone)

I thought about blocking Steve, but I don't think he's that likely to begin with so I didn't bother.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Why are people so against third parties? There's more hype outsiders than remaining Nintendo characters for me.

I love having those as much as the next guy, but I think it's best to have one character representing a third-party series at a time, otherwise there'd be less third-parties showing up. Anybody else that's noteworthy from the same series should be an AT, this way it won't crowd the roster and everyone will be glad that they can get some chance to fight.

Plus as long as they showed up on a Nintendo-related game at some point in time, it's fine. I don't think it would sit well with people if characters like Master Chief showed up.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Not sure how you guys coped with Nintendo's drought of games. There's plenty of quality games outside of Nintendo waiting to be played. Each to their own, though. I was exposed to both sides of gaming young, so that helps I am sure.

But for Nintendo characters they are four left for me to be excited about: K. Rool, Dixie, Black Shadow, and Paper Mario (64-SPM inspired only). Comparing that to the plethora of 3rd parties such as Master Chief, Rayman, Banjo, Phoenix Wright, Crash Bandicoot, Bomberman (RIP), and even ones from exciting titles I've never played like Sora, Lara Croft, Simon Belmont and Scorpion it's a no brainer which ones I'd be more personally excited about.

We're now at the point that Smash has had more games with third parties than without 'em. It's no longer breaking tradition, really.

And this is where the subjectivity comes in because none of those third party characters interest me (although I'd like to see Banjo just for the sheer havock that will be caused, in a good way).

And instead of just 4 or 5 Nintendo characters I have like 15 or 20 I'd love to see, but most probably won't happen lol.

Side note that isn't to say there are no third parties I want. I'd really love Travis Touchdown, Jill Valentine and Joker from Persona and that's just because my experiences with those games. They're not very likely though

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I believe I've played the original, so I'm aware of that.
Is there nothing to draw moveset potential from, though?

I mean Wario himself hardly takes anything from the WarioWare series aside from Wario Bike, so I imagine not a lot.
That said she is a mage, which means moveset potential is literally infinite. You could pretty much have her do anything related to magic and it'd fit her character.

 

[Pakky]

Why are people so against third parties? There's more hype outsiders than remaining Nintendo characters for me.

Not against 3rd Parties if they are significant to gaming as a whole, though I start to put on my "objective man hat" when in discussions about multiple characters from a series.

- Are they important to the game?
-Are they popular
- Or are they just easy to implement .

These three things waver from character to character but that's how I look at things.

Steve for example deserves a seat at the table but anyone else from Minecraft needs to sit outside.

Sonic makes all the sense in the world, Shadow is just bitter sweet, where Eggman would be a god send.

 

[Wyoming]

I love having those as much as the next guy, but I think it's best to have one character representing a third-party series at a time, otherwise there'd be less third-parties showing up. Anybody else that's noteworthy from the same series should be an AT, this way it won't crowd the roster and everyone will be glad that they can get some chance to fight.

Plus as long as they showed up on a Nintendo-related game at some point in time, it's fine. I don't think it would sit well with people if characters like Master Chief showed up.

Chief showing up in Smash with that classic Halo intro jingle would make me spontaneously combust that it is happening in reality. The moveset could be so fun and the Halo stage would be gorgeous or atmospheric.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I believe I've played the original, so I'm aware of that.
Is there nothing to draw moveset potential from, though?

As mamaluigi said, no. She is a witch so you can just base a moveset of that as we don't have a hex character.

Before people hate on me and prove me wrong that you can take every single little thing she does in a game and make a Moveset out of it, she comparatively has less potential than other possible newcomers.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Why are people so against third parties? There's more hype outsiders than remaining Nintendo characters for me.

Because I'd rather see B and C tier Nintendo characters make it in over a lot of top tier 3rd parties. I don't want them to ignore Nintendo characters just because the top choices are all in.

Everyone freaked out over Snake coming back, and while it's cool and all, I really didn't care. I was more excited for Pichu. I love Nintendo and want to keep seeing characters be represented. I'm not entirely against 3rd parties but when I see lists full of 3rd parties and not as many Nintendo characters it kinda makes me sad.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

With like two or three exceptions every Nintendo character that we need in Smash, in my eyes, is already there.

If there comes a Smash game where the newcomers are 80% third party, bring it. Especially if they're all fun to play as.

 

[Noipoi]

I believe I've played the original, so I'm aware of that.
Is there nothing to draw moveset potential from, though?

Ashley's got potential, dude!

Like Mamaluigi said, she's a witch. Anything magic would fit her, she could have debuff hexes or self buffing spells.
She changed a potted plant into a giant plant monster in one game, cursing objects could be her gimmick.
Not to mention her demon buddy Red can transform into objects, giving her a slightly wider variety of things to work with.
Besides this is Sakurai we're talking about! He made a moveset household objects work!

sorry for the text wall, I just get kinda sad when people say Ashley has no potential.
(Lookin at you, Imadethistoseealeak!)

 

[Deleted member]

I mean Wario himself hardly takes anything from the WarioWare series aside from Wario Bike, so I imagine not a lot.
That said she is a mage, which means moveset potential is literally infinite. You could pretty much have her do anything related to magic and it'd fit her character.

As mamaluigi said, no. She is a witch so you can just base a moveset of that as we don't have a hex character.

Before people hate on me and prove me wrong that you can take every single little thing she does in a game and make a Moveset out of it, she comparatively has less potential than other possible newcomers.

That's lame.
I thought such a popular character would have some kind of moveset potential within her games, but I guess it's just "everything and a kitchen sink".

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Something tells me that IF Steve did get in he would get a full blown redesign. I don't see Sakurai keeping ugly, blurry, block dude because of how he'd look next to the characters. Honestly, that's the only easy I'd be ok with him getting in.

I also feel that Sakurai will look for a character from Microsoft that would please the hardcore fans though. And if that's the case then I think it'll be Banjo-Kazooie.

 

[Slavic]

I do want third party additions, but I want them to help represent Nintendo and their relationships with other companies or their history in general, and so far they've been doing a great job at that! My fear is when and if third party characters are added just because they can be. A lot of third party choices are anti-hype for me, not giving specifics because I don't want to demean anyone's wishes, and I just wouldn't want the roster to be overbloated with characters that have little or no actual connection to Nintendo for the sake of it while Nintendo still has a plethora of good and, for me at least, exciting choices.

I also don't think having two reps for a third party franchise is a terrible idea, especially big franchises with a deep history with Nintendo, like Sonic and Mega Man.

 

[Noipoi]

That's lame.
I thought such a popular character would have some kind of moveset potential within her games, but I guess it's just "everything and a kitchen sink".

Call Ashley lame again, I dare you, I double dare you!

 

[DarkFalcon]

That's lame.
I thought such a popular character would have some kind of moveset potential within her games, but I guess it's just "everything and a kitchen sink".

>Calling Ashley lame.

Excuse me sir, why don't you take a step in my office.

 

[Opossum]

Crash - Ugly. I will never look at him.

Please do not bully my fuzzy orange son.

 

[Deleted member]

Ashley's got potential, dude!

Like Mamaluigi said, she's a witch. Anything magic would fit her, she could have debuff hexes or self buffing spells.
She changed a potted plant into a giant plant monster in one game, cursing objects could be her gimmick.
Not to mention her demon buddy Red can transform into objects, giving her a slightly wider variety of things to work with.
Besides this is Sakurai we're talking about! He made a moveset household objects work!

sorry for the text wall, I just get kinda sad when people say Ashley has no potential.
(Lookin at you, Imadethistoseealeak!)

"Sakurai made a moveset for anything" isn't an acceptable argument since I want to try and make my own moveset for them.
That said, those are some interesting points there. Still going to check out the games first though.

Call Ashley lame again, I dare you, I double dare you!

Hey, you called Decidueye overhyped the other day.
I think that's a valid comeback.

 

[Noipoi]

"Sakurai made a moveset for anything" isn't an acceptable argument since I want to try and make my own moveset for them.
That said, those are some interesting points there. Still going to check out the games first though.

Hey, you called Decidueye overhyped the other day.
I think that's a valid comeback.

Overhyped? Perhaps. But I still like him!
And despite my jokes it would be nice to see him in Smash, not my top pick but it'd still be cool!
He's a ghost type archer that's rad! So don't bully Ashley!

 

[Wyoming]

Lycanroc is better than both because rock is an unsung type. If only GameFreak made the typing relevant outside of Stealth Rock.