Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Overhyped? Perhaps. But I still like him!
And despite my jokes it would be nice to see him in Smash, not my top pick but it'd still be cool!
He's a ghost type archer that's rad! So don't even start with me!

Dude I was just joking, chill out.
Also you kinda gave the impression that you don't like him, but I won't argue over personal tastes.

 

[SlickWylde]

Why are people so against third parties? There's more hype outsiders than remaining Nintendo characters for me.

I think most of the anti 3rd party people are probably the old schoolers. I've been playing Smash Bros since 1999 with SSB64, and the whole point of the game was "Nintendo's All Stars battle it out!".

But the game has evolved. It's now becoming "Gaming's biggest All Stars battle it out!". For someone who remembers the original idea, it can seem like the franchise is going in an unfamiliar direction. So I totally see why some people don't want a bunch of 3rd parties. I'm open to it, but I kinda have to force myself to be open to it. Though I think I'm more hesitant to accept brand new characters, regardless of party. Inklings in Splatoon makes perfect sense, because they're a Flagship franchise for the Switch's success. But when people start talking about adding characters like the character from Mighty Number 9, (who I haven't really seen take gaming in any new directions, and wasn't that successful) I definitely start to balk a little bit. Steve from Minecraft would make a lot of sense, but it definitely isn't something that I desire. I'd rather have an old school Nintendo character.

 

[PhantomShab]

Whatever new Pokemon gets in it'll be whatever Gamefreak decided ahead of time will be 7th gen's artificially popular Pokemon they've been marketing the most. I'm gonna guess it's that Tony the Tiger looking thing.

 

[Noipoi]

Dude I was just joking, chill out.
Also you kinda gave the impression that you don't like him, but I won't argue over personal tastes.

Sorry, I just woke up from a fever and my brain is frizzy.
Let's just drop it.

 

[blackghost]

Not against 3rd Parties if they are significant to gaming as a whole, though I start to put on my "objective man hat" when in discussions about multiple characters from a series.

- Are they important to the game?
-Are they popular
- Or are they just easy to implement .

it sounds easy to qualify but we've had people on this very forum insist that a character at the level of laura croft isn't big enough to be in smash.
also for the earlier part
add: Sephiroth
promote: Rodin
block: king k

 

[YoshiandToad]

Here’s something fun to try:

Add one, promote one, and rosterblock one. (Add a newcomer, promote an AT, pokeball, boss, item, hazard, game element, trophy), and deny a roster addition to an unconfirmed newcomer.

Add one: Elma
Promote one: Takamaru
Rosterblock one: Ashley

Add one: Captain Toad
Promote one: Meowth
Rosterblock one: Geno

Well let'd have multiple games going at once.

What are your following answers to these roster scenarios

Best Outcome:

Satisfying Outcome:

Basic Outcome/Simply Meh:

Worst Outcome:



-----
Best Outcome: I, and most others get our most wanted through the base roster or DLC

Satisfying Outcome: At least half of of my top picks get in somehow

Basic Outcome: King K Rool gets in

Worst Outcome: We get a bunch of a niche nobodies and Echo fighters and no one else.

Best Outcome: I get Captain Toad, a handful of newcomers whom I like(Dee, Dixie, Impa, Chibi Robo, Isaac, etc) and a few surprises.

Satisfying Outcome: I get Captain Toad, a newcomer I like(see above) a few surprises and one or two I'm less fussed about.

Basic Outcome: I don't get Captain Toad, but do get Dixie/Dee/Impa and a bunch of others.

Worst Outcome: I don't get Captain Toad, Dixie, Dee, Impa, Chibi, etc and instead get newcomers I feel dislike or feel nothing for only(Ashley, Shadow the Hedgehog, Geno, K. Rool)

 

[DarkFalcon]

Ashley doesn't have a plethora of readily available moves that translates into fighter ability in Smash, but not everyone does. She has enough though IMO. Recovery? Check. Uses staff for magic? Check. Shoots purple lightning out of her hands? Check. There's enough there. So lack of moveset potential isn't really an issue. It's just she doesn't have a TON to directly take from that translates into a full moveset. It wouldn't be hard to give her one though.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Whatever new Pokemon gets in it'll be whatever Gamefreak decided ahead of time will be 7th gen's artificially popular Pokemon they've been marketing the most. I'm gonna guess it's that Tony the Tiger looking thing.

So Magearna then?

I mean it was the first Gen VII design revealed and had a movie. Kinda feels like they wanted to make it the Lucario of Gen VII, at least at the time the roster was decided.

 

[Rockaphin]

Add: Paper Mario
Promote: Skull Kid
Roster Block: Waluigi

...Man I'm dying to see some news outside of stuff we already know. Just call me greedy.

 

[Iridium]

Coool but inaccurate. Meta Knight should be on the NES not the gameboy as his debut was Kirby's Adventure. Also Pichu whould be by itself in the Game Boy Color. And if goign the full distance, Sonic should be on Arcade thanks to Rad Mobile.

Yeah, he fixed that after suggestions. Here is the revised one:

Edit: Well, at least he fixed Meta Knight, but he did acknowledge Pichu.

 

[Murlough]

As mamaluigi said, no. She is a witch so you can just base a moveset of that as we don't have a hex character.

Before people hate on me and prove me wrong that you can take every single little thing she does in a game and make a Moveset out of it, she comparatively has less potential than other possible newcomers.

That's lame.
I thought such a popular character would have some kind of moveset potential within her games, but I guess it's just "everything and a kitchen sink".

From what I understand Captain Falcon's moveset was completely made up.

So its not like Sakurai couldn't make a witch moveset work. Heck, I think making a witch play like a witch would be easier than making a race car driver fight in general.

When it comes to Ashley I just like her design and personality. The potential for a witch moveset if she gets in is also pretty cool.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I believe I've played the original, so I'm aware of that.
Is there nothing to draw moveset potential from, though?

She can cast spells. Also, she'd have a sidekick - a red demon, named Red lol. He can transform into a broom, wand, bat (animal), etc. So there's some interesting stuff there. I could see her playing like a mix of Robin and Rosalina&Luma.

 

[Wyoming]

I think most of the anti 3rd party people are probably the old schoolers. I've been playing Smash Bros since 1999 with SSB64, and the whole point of the game was "Nintendo's All Stars battle it out!".

But the game has evolved. It's now becoming "Gaming's biggest All Stars battle it out!". For someone who remembers the original idea, it can seem like the franchise is going in an unfamiliar direction. So I totally see why some people don't want a bunch of 3rd parties. I'm open to it, but I kinda have to force myself to be open to it. Though I think I'm more hesitant to accept brand new characters, regardless of party. Inklings in Splatoon makes perfect sense, because they're a Flagship franchise for the Switch's success. But when people start talking about adding characters like the character from Mighty Number 9, (who I haven't really seen take gaming in any new directions, and wasn't that successful) I definitely start to balk a little bit. Steve from Minecraft would make a lot of sense, but it definitely isn't something that I desire. I'd rather have an old school Nintendo character.

Eeeeh I am not sure about that. Oldschoolers have moved on from gaming, moved to Sony/Microsoft, or are Nintendo fans with open minds about other games from what I've seen. I think it is a brand loyalty kind of deal. Some people love Nintendo and just want to stay there. It's fine, I just wouldn't be able to do that myself. They tend to go on droughts and there's a reason why people have been demanding third party titles on Nintendo again. We're now at a golden age of gaming in terms of accessibility and developers creating content in the media. It seems too limited to stick by one side nowadays.

I guess they did promote it as "Nintendo's All-Stars duke it out!" but that changed 10 years ago. It's nothing new and people shouldn't outright dismiss any third party addition because the big N didn't make them.

You can attribute Melee's success and Snake's reveal as the true beginning of Smash hype/speculation. Before that people liked the series, but it wasn't anywhere near the level it is now. It made people talk Smash and anticipate what they are doing next. Gameplay wise the community remains fractured, but Snake's reveal changed the whole ball game in terms of marketing and discussion for the franchise.

 

[Deleted member]

From what I understand Captain Falcon's moveset was completely made up.

So its not like Sakurai couldn't make a witch moveset work. Heck, I think making a witch play like a witch would be easier than making a race car driver fight in general.

When it comes to Ashley I just like her design and personality. The potential for a witch moveset if she gets in is also pretty cool.

She can cast spells. Also, she'd have a sidekick - a red demon, named Red lol. He can transform into a broom, wand, bat (animal), etc. So there's some interesting stuff there. I could see her playing like a mix of Robin and Rosalina&Luma.

I strongly encourage both of you to read the rest of the discussion for different reasons.
Now excuse me, I have to go somewhere.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Ashley's got potential, dude!

Like Mamaluigi said, she's a witch. Anything magic would fit her, she could have debuff hexes or self buffing spells.
She changed a potted plant into a giant plant monster in one game, cursing objects could be her gimmick.
Not to mention her demon buddy Red can transform into objects, giving her a slightly wider variety of things to work with.
Besides this is Sakurai we're talking about! He made a moveset household objects work!

sorry for the text wall, I just get kinda sad when people say Ashley has no potential.
(Lookin at you, Imadethistoseealeak!)

Sorry I don't mean to talk bad about your character, I actually think a hex based character would be really cool! Whether it's Ashley or Skull Kid I welcome them.

But the truth is, for both of those characters, is that going to their games doesn't give a lot more inspiration for what they can do. Ashley is a Witch, Skull Kid is a trickster with a cursed mask. That's all you get across from their games. My point was just that Lampy shouldn't get his hopes up to see some cool abilities that he hasn't heard already.

I will totally admit I did leave out Red though, as using Red fo various attacks does fill up her moveset. Anyway what I think I was trying to say is that she doesn't do a lot in her games, a long with any other Wario Ware character, because you don't play as them directly. (And I mean in Game&Wario you just rode a broom right? I forget).

From what I understand Captain Falcon's moveset was completely made up.

So its not like Sakurai couldn't make a witch moveset work. Heck, I think making a witch play like a witch would be easier than making a race car driver fight in general.

When it comes to Ashley I just like her design and personality. The potential for a witch moveset if she gets in is also pretty cool.

As Lampy said , that doesn't have to do with his original question about playing her game for moveset insperation. I'm not saying Ashley doesn't have moveset potential, just that she doesn't do much in her games.

If Captain Falcon wasn't in the game and you were like I'm gunna play his game to find out a moveset for him I'd say the same thing.

Anyyyyyway if anyone else just says "Ashley has moveset potential!" without reffering to what we were saying she does in her game, I'll just ignore it now lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Did you guys see this? Pretty cool seeing how much a console is representative

Credit:https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/8vhpvp/console_representation_in_ssbu_so_far/

Dr. Mario can technically be in both NES/Famicom and Game Boy.
Dr. Mario was originally released on both systems as the same time in Japan.

 

[RandomAce]

Here's a question.

What is the character with the most recent debut that you think will get in?

Both for unique characters and echoes.

For Base, A Gen VII Pokemon, after that Elma. (Jesus the Wii U era was empty.)

For DLC, Rex and Pyra and Spring Man as well.

Corrin is still the most recent character in the base roster. So having those two for the base would make them the most recent.

 

[RouffWestie]

Here’s something fun to try:

Add one, promote one, and rosterblock one. (Add a newcomer, promote an AT, pokeball, boss, item, hazard, game element, trophy), and deny a roster addition to an unconfirmed newcomer.

Add one: Elma
Promote one: Takamaru
Rosterblock one: Ashley

Add Banjo-Kazooie
Promote Kamek
Block Elma

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

Well let'd have multiple games going at once.

What are your following answers to these roster scenarios

Best Outcome:

Satisfying Outcome:

Basic Outcome/Simply Meh:

Worst Outcome:

Best Outcome: Marx, Ashley and K Rool. oh and Brinstar Depths coming back.

Satisfying Outcome: A Kirby rep, A DK rep, an Earthbound Echo, Krookodile, Xurkitree or Incineroar (in any role) and a mention of Kraid somewhere,

Basic Outcome: A couple of new echos and characters from various series.

Worst Outcome: Only unannounced newcomers are Pokemon, FE, and Xenoblade.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You know, I used to be against third parties in general - at least outside of Sonic. But once we got 3/7 third party DLC, I opened up to it, and started supporting my own fantasy third-party.

I’d still hope that the roster doesn’t get bloated with third parties, but there are a decent number of obscure Nintendo characters who matter less in the grand scheme of gaming than the third parties we’ve got.

I guess if they’re renowned enough that even non-gamers will at least recognize them, I’m okay with it. But they should have shown up on a Nintendo console at least.

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, he fixed that after suggestions. Here is the revised one:

Edit: Well, at least he fixed Meta Knight, but he did acknowledge Pichu.

Clearly the moral here is that we need Chandelure to buff up the number of DS characters.

 

[ThyCheshireCat]

Clearly the moral here is that we need Chandelure to buff up the number of DS characters.

Either that or Krookodile.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Fair enough, the GBC was treated more like the DSi was to the DS rather than the 3DS.

I just had a thought, 3rd parties would be cool with Echos, even on the base game because all new characters would need...

amiibos!

And because of people like me, they still sell by the bucketload.

 

[Slavic]

Best Outcome: Marx, Ashley and K Rool. oh and Brinstar Depths coming back.

Satisfying Outcome: A Kirby rep, A DK rep, an Earthbound Echo, Krookodile, Xurkitree or Incineroar (in any role) and a mention of Kraid somewhere,

Basic Outcome: A couple of new echos and characters from various series.

Worst Outcome: Only unannounced newcomers are Pokemon, FE, and Xenoblade.

;0; your worst outcome is pretty great for me, RIP me.

Though Kraid and Depths definitely need more Smash love.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's a question.

What is the character with the most recent debut that you think will get in?

Both for unique characters and echoes.

I am just going to say Pokemon Sun and Moon.
Game is popular and if Smash Bros. Ultimate shifted by adding Gen 7 Pokemon in Pokeballs, than we will get a Gen 7 Newcomer.

 

[osby]

Sorry I don't mean to talk bad about your character, I actually think a hex based character would be really cool! Whether it's Ashley or Skull Kid I welcome them.

But the truth is, for both of those characters, is that going to their games doesn't give a lot more inspiration for what they can do. Ashley is a Witch, Skull Kid is a trickster with a cursed mask. That's all you get across from their games. My point was just that Lampy shouldn't get his hopes up to see some cool abilities that he hasn't heard already.

I will totally admit I did leave out Red though, as using Red fo various attacks does fill up her moveset. Anyway what I think I was trying to say is that she doesn't do a lot in her games, a long with any other Wario Ware character, because you don't play as them directly. (And I mean in Game&Wario you just rode a broom right? I forget).

As Lampy said , that doesn't have to do with his original question about playing her game for moveset insperation. I'm not saying Ashley doesn't have moveset potential, just that she doesn't do much in her games.

If Captain Falcon wasn't in the game and you were like I'm gunna play his game to find out a moveset for him I'd say the same thing.

Anyyyyyway if anyone else just says "Ashley has moveset potential!" without reffering to what we were saying she does in her game, I'll just ignore it now lol.

Like, Palutena's speacials were cool but personally, most interesting things about herkes fighting style was how she combines her design (staff, shield) with "stuff she'd do" (laser and beams).

For example.

 

[spinalwolf]

Yeah, he fixed that after suggestions. Here is the revised one:

Edit: Well, at least he fixed Meta Knight, but he did acknowledge Pichu.

Uuuh unless I'm missing something, Roy's debut was on gba not Gamecube. Unless you count him appearing in Melee first.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Yeah, he fixed that after suggestions. Here is the revised one:

Edit: Well, at least he fixed Meta Knight, but he did acknowledge Pichu.

We need more DS reps.

Pls add Chorus Kids and Ashley.

 

[Pacack]

Uuuh unless I'm missing something, Roy's debut was on gba not Gamecube

Roy actually was included in Melee before he was in his own game.

 

[Opossum]

Uuuh unless I'm missing something, Roy's debut was on gba not Gamecube. Unless you count him appearing in Melee first.

He's counted as GameCube because Melee came out before The Binding Blade.

Which is dumb because by that logic Lucario should be on the GBA because of his Red Rescue Team cameo.

 

[UserKev]

What I really dislike about third party characters, they make the game more difficult to balance. Cloud has crazy air game and seeing that back makes Smash uneasy to play again as if Bayo's godly air game wasn't terrible enough.

The anime characters are for noobs, I swear.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He's counted as GameCube because Melee came out before The Binding Blade.

Which is dumb because by that logic Lucario should be on the GBA because of his Red Rescue Team cameo.

Wait Lucario made a cameo in those games? Jesus Game Freak tried to hype the **** out of it

 

[92MilesPrower]

You know, I used to be against third parties in general - at least outside of Sonic. But once we got 3/7 third party DLC, I opened up to it, and started supporting my own fantasy third-party.

I’d still hope that the roster doesn’t get bloated with third parties, but there are a decent number of obscure Nintendo characters who matter less in the grand scheme of gaming than the third parties we’ve got.

I guess if they’re renowned enough that even non-gamers will at least recognize them, I’m okay with it. But they should have shown up on a Nintendo console at least.

In my opinion, Third Party characters should be relegated to who's considering "gaming's finest" right now, as long as the character or their franchise has appeared on a Nintendo console, and if the franchise and/or developers have a good history with Nintendo, that stuff helps majorly. A character like Simon Belmont is synonymous with Nintendo, he's deserving to be in Smash. Rabbids, for example, are arguably not considered "gaming's finest" since they're still hated by plenty of people, and Rayman would be a better choice with many liking him. However, both are supported by the clear friendship between Ubisoft and Nintendo.

Although some characters such as Lara Croft, Steve and Shovel Knight do fit the bill for who fits as a 3rd party rep in my opinion, characters that are more synonymous with Nintendo should get priority.

 

[Opossum]

What I really dislike about third party characters, they make the game more difficult to balance. Cloud has crazy air game and seeing that back makes Smash uneasy to play again as if Bayo's godly air game wasn't terrible enough.

The anime characters are for noobs, I swear.

Being a third party character doesn't inherently make a character harder to balance.

 

[Slavic]

Wait Lucario made a cameo in those games? Jesus Game Freak tried to hype the **** out of it

Can’t forget Bonsly and Munchlax in XD, and Munch in Destiny Deoxys too! Pokemon was pumped for Sinnoh. It’s a shame that’s not the region getting a remake this year

 

[Megadoomer]

What I really dislike about third party characters, they make the game more difficult to balance. Cloud has crazy air game and seeing that back makes Smash uneasy to play again as if Bayo's godly air game wasn't terrible enough.

The anime characters are for noobs, I swear.

Cloud was designed to be easy for people to use because Sakurai felt that a lot of new players would want to try him out, (look for the question "And why is that?") while Bayonetta's insane combos are staying true to her series' gameplay.

 

[UserKev]

Being a third party character doesn't inherently make a character harder to balance.

I was referring to those specific third party characters. In my perspective, Cloud should NOT be in Smash.

 

[RandomAce]

I’m surprised by the lack of DS debut characters.

But to be real here, aside from Lucario and Pokémon, Nintendo didn’t do much from the handheld system.

The only other character to have a chance from the DS era is a Rhythm Heaven Rep.

 

[Opossum]

I’m surprised by the lack of DS debut characters.

But to be real here, aside from Lucario and Pokémon, Nintendo didn’t do much from the handheld system.

The only other character to have a chance from the DS era is a Rhythm Heaven Rep.

Even then, Rhythm Heaven debuted on the GBA, so it'd need to be someone who wasn't in the first one.

 

[spinalwolf]

Roy actually was included in Melee before he was in his own game.

I know but I just don't think I would count him as a gamecube rep.