Smash on the Rocks - Date under Plans (Rocky Mount, NC)

[vZakat]

Wow Josh, I've been thinking about that very same thing recently. I'm probably going to make a topic about it in the melee section soon.

 

[Lightsyde]

Wow Josh, I've been thinking about that very same thing recently. I'm probably going to make a topic about it in the melee section soon.

Viverette, Joshua. "Improvement Through Character Diversity." Shines, Knees & ****: A Guide to Feeling Nothing. 1337. 1. Mute City: Smashboards, 2010. Web.

I went ahead and provided you an MLA style citation for whenever you make the thread.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah, for some reason people don't understand that learning learning other characters makes you better faster overall because it teaches you about different aspects of the game/characters/match ups, and forces you to learn skills which your main might not be so intensive on.

This brings me to something that I've been meaning to talk about here lately anyway:

This is why I think EVERYONE should learn how to play Fox/Falco/Falcon, to some degree. Last night, my roommate Matt asked me a question while he was watching me goof around with Falco: "What exactly does the shine do?"

It took me 10-15 minutes to fully explain its functionality as a kill move (fox's vs falco's), a combo tool (starting vs ending), shield pressure (pillaring, shine grabs, double shine), a movement tool (shine turnarounds, wavelands, ledge options etc), a stall (momentum alternation, dropping into aerials etc), a defensive option (OoS), a safe approach (SH -> shine -> waveland onto a platform) and probably more.

Just by learning, performing and applying JUST shine stuff, you learn a whole new dimension of the game and you fundamentally understand two of the most common (yet most poorly played) match ups for any character. Couple that with having to learn to SHFFL perfectly (since you tend to get punished SO hard for every missed L cancel), which means reacting to whether your aerial hits them, hits their shield, or whiffs (all of which have different L cancel timings, especially Fox's Dair). There's infinitely more to be learned from them as well, but that would take all day so I'll move on.

And then Falcon teaches you tech chasing probably better than any other character. Falcon's run speed is top notch (which accomodates for a lack luster grab range, compared to Marth/Sheik/Jiggs) but has to react faster/predict more accurately than Fox in order to really get those essential tech chases. Falcon has TONS of different things he can do during tech chases (stomp, knee, raptor boost, regrab etc) that lead to combos which can be death, but if you make an error, a good spacie will shine you into their own combo very quickly. Falcon's entire game against fast fallers is so tech chase intensive that you will develope reaction skills and keep a mental tally of techs more adamantly than you likely ever have before. All his movements need to be so precise (read: Nair spacing is TOO important) overall that it's going to make you a better player.

Kevin: I would like your feedback on this and possibly request this conversation to make it over to HLS, the topic essentially being something like "Overall improvement by diversifying your character selection."

K, back to work.

Yeah I've been meaning to talk about this. It really should go into the HLS group but I mean while I'm here...=p

It's important to learn higher tiered characters, every single one if you can. This increases your knowledge of the game and expands your skillset as an individual, as different characters rely on some attributes more than others(as Josh already stated).

Beyond that though, there's another critical advantage one gets when playing **** characters: learning how to beat them. Think about it. What better way to figure out how to defeat a good character then to show yourself the many ways they can be defeated? You play a character, learn how to win with them, when they are vulnerable or when their moves lag, and even common metagame strategies(because it's not enough to have a sucky high tier obviously =p). Then when you fight a character/come up with strategy vs them, you know exactly what they're trying to do and which moves don't work and even the matchup from their perspective. All of this information adds up to give you a more complete view of not only the opponent's character/options but the matchup itself.

^my immediate thoughts


Edit: Maria's case is separate from this in that motivation wasn't present when she played a top tier character. Only when she picked one that was more enjoyable/intuitive/satisfying/etc did she feel the desire to improve. That's sort of like the stuff Taj talks about in that big ol thread I encourage you all to read where he says intuition/connection with a character can produce better results than if you stuck to bread and butter Fox in attempt to do well in tourney without really enjoying it.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

yall stop talking so much.


that's not how u get good.



i play puff, aks ab me

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

I'm asking about you.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

:jiggs:

nurr

 

[Ocean]

 

[vZakat]

But there's no reason why you can't learn some of those playstyles while still playing a low tier. Things like tech chasing, shield pressure, and spacing can all be learned with anyone. The main reason we may not focus primarily on that with a character is because it's not the most efficient way to play said character. Sometimes when playing to learn you're going to have to do somethings that might not seem smart just to learn a skill.
I think it's more a matter of looking at the game at an objective stand point instead of looking at it through your characters eyes. I do think that playing other characters helps but isn't necessity. Honestly I don't think it helps you improve any faster than if you stayed with one character. By reading guides and watching videos you can learn about other characters without needing to play them.

Edit - I put that smiley thing there by accident. lol.

 

[BEHR]

who from gboro is goin to this?

 

[Dr Peepee]

But there's no reason why you can't learn some of those playstyles while still playing a low tier. Things like tech chasing, shield pressure, and spacing can all be learned with anyone. The main reason we may not focus primarily on that with a character is because it's not the most efficient way to play said character. Sometimes when playing to learn you're going to have to do somethings that might not seem smart just to learn a skill.
I think it's more a matter of looking at the game at an objective stand point instead of looking at it through your characters eyes. I do think that playing other characters helps but isn't necessity. Honestly I don't think it helps you improve any faster than if you stayed with one character. By reading guides and watching videos you can learn about other characters without needing to play them.

Edit - I put that smiley thing there by accident. lol.

Low tiers having less options tends to make learning how to exploit such skills harder because they're typically on the losing end of a fight. I mean you could do it, but why would you when you get the added bonus of learning how a high tier works?

Another point I forgot to make is that when you hit a plateau, taking a break from your character somewhat and branching out to secondaries and other characters(including low tiers) increases your mastery of the game itself and hones those skills more relevant to characters different from your main. THAT is a definite way some learn to break through walls while being efficient with your time so as to learn new characters/skills while your main becomes unstale and your mind reopened to creativity in smash.

 

[vZakat]

I was trying to think of something else to say but can't. I'm not very good at playing the devil's advocate. *shrugs*

 

[Dr Peepee]

I'm doing a liiiittle of that too so don't worry lol.

discussion is fun.

 

[Moophobia]

How good/bad of a character is doc?
DISCUSS

 

[Dr Peepee]

Look at shroomed winning tournaments/placing top 3 all the time.

doc *****

 

[Moophobia]

actually **** it lol.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

lmao **** it indeed.

 

[Lightsyde]

Whole hearted agreement with what Kevin said about branching out and even moreso about why learning low tiers isn't AS helpful as learning top tiers.

 

[Diatenshi]

Edit: Maria's case is separate from this in that motivation wasn't present when she played a top tier character. Only when she picked one that was more enjoyable/intuitive/satisfying/etc did she feel the desire to improve. That's sort of like the stuff Taj talks about in that big ol thread I encourage you all to read where he says intuition/connection with a character can produce better results than if you stuck to bread and butter Fox in attempt to do well in tourney without really enjoying it.

ditto, havent found a character i enjoy yet

marths just a cop out cause ive played him the most

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Ice Climbers have always been my go-to character for a good time. I don't think that I've ever not enjoyed playing IC.

Playing a "cop-out" character will probably drain you of your ambition to play this game faster than anything.

 

[Diatenshi]

Ice Climbers have always been my go-to character for a good time. I don't think that I've ever not enjoyed playing IC.

Playing a "cop-out" character will probably drain you of your ambition to play this game faster than anything.

no i still have fun playin ths game, cause i dont take it very seriously

its more like ill never care 2 get good without a character to do so

 

[Lightsyde]

ditto, havent found a character i enjoy yet

marths just a cop out cause ive played him the most

That was how Jiggs was for me when I first started playing. I didn't really enjoy playing her so much as I enjoyed winning and for the skill level I had at the time, she was by far my best choice.

I remember going to Charlotte for the first time and meeting/playing Ali and it inspired the **** out of me to play Falcon. I played mainly Falcon for a long while and it's just so hard to get off the ground with such a difficult character with so little overall experience/game knowledge so I stagnated some until I learned Fox.

I had been messing around with Falco in spots for years because he's always been super fun but I just wasn't technically sound enough to win with him at tourney level until recently. I've got a lot of tricks and stuff from having played Falcon so long, but I really feel like Falco can be played the way my brain works with the game and it's helped me think more abstractly.

Last night when I was playing with Aasem I realized that Falco vs Peach might be my favorite match up to play. Yes, I still think Falco loses and it can be VERY frustrating, but if you do smart things, space well and combo hard, it's almost poetic the way you have to play against her. Watch Mango's Falco vs Armada from Apex and you'll see what I mean.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

besides, if Marth's the character you play the most, that must mean you enjoy him.

I can't see myself playing characters that I don't like for extended periods of time. Then again, I enjoy playing like all the chars in this game except for Zelda. Other characters I really like, they just confuse me, like Jiggs, Peach and Samus.

 

[Diatenshi]

besides, if Marth's the character you play the most, that must mean you enjoy him.

I can't see myself playing characters that I don't like for extended periods of time. Then again, I enjoy playing like all the chars in this game except for Zelda. Other characters I really like, they just confuse me, like Jiggs, Peach and Samus.

play him most because im best w/ him and so on and so forth... it reinforces itsself

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Oh

well

**** you.

>=[

 

[Dr Peepee]

I think Falcon has plenty of abstractions available to him.

Creativity comes in different forms for that character though.

SS and Mango's Falcons make me smile.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Mach Dash's Falcon makes me giggle.

 

[ZIO]

While I agree for everything that's being said (Dam adam saying I'm improving and I feel it just a little only because I decided to try out Falco, still need work as always) I need something done -

Who knows they're definitely attending, who's on the fence (I'll convince you otherwise), and whatnot? Just need to know so we can set up the garage and see what we can do about foods/drinks.

 

[~Twitch~]

me and kevin are confirmed cuz we would not miss this for the world.

on another note, we should host a item side tourney at this. :D

 

[bossa nova ♪]

schedule-wise, im great for this thing. and i ****in REALLY wanna come, it sounds like it'll be a blast.


i just need a ride

 

[Moophobia]

Cam if you're gonna be in chapel hill I can give you a ride. :3

 

[Juno McGrath]

Moo lemme ride witcha main.

 

[Moophobia]

Aight dawg :D

 

[Ocean]

I'm coming to this.

I have struggled with maining a character since I've been playing.

 

[Moophobia]

I'm coming to this.

I have struggled with maining a character since I've been playing.

Yes me too.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

I knew from the moment I first desynched that was in love with IC! =D

 

[Diatenshi]

ppl reccomend me a characterrr

anytime i played any SF i played Ryu, and i played Chipp in guilty gear

i like the faster chars a lil, but i dislike fox and falco, so they are out....

 

[Gardevior]

CAPTAIN FaLCON.

 

[Diatenshi]

well nuthin doin till after TO6 but ill try it

 

[Ocean]

whats wrong with marth?

also, having other people pick your character won't work.

 

[Gardevior]

whats wrong with marth?

There's a long list.