Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[Diddy Kong]

Such long walls everytime... Lets keep it simple, should Ganon be able to get hurt by other things than the Master Sword and Light Arrows? I personally say yes.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

True to his game, Ganon's invulnerable to everything BUT light/silver arrows, and the master sword. Having god powers, as how _clinton is describing, doesn't defy the word 'but' or 'only' in that sentence. A few other weapons may hurt him, but they can not kill him.

 

[Diddy Kong]

He's been hurt and probably killed by other magical swords as well. Silver Arrows, Light Arrows. Master Sword, Gold Sword (alttp). I don't think Ganon really is invurnable for anything. I think anyone who has something that fights evil or darkness should be able to hurt him. Though, I can't think of any character at this moment now...

EDIT: But now I can. I said this before, but Marth, Roy and Ike should be able to at least damage Ganondorf, as well as Pit. As well as of coarse any other Zelda character.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Once again, Ganon can be hurt, but, besides the weapons that you and I have listed, he can not be killed. There isn't anything said anywhere that Ganon is vulnerable (in terms of being killed) to anything else other than those weapons, that is what the words 'only' or 'but' defies.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yes, but does he HAS to be killed to be defeated then? If he gets beaten to a point he cannot fight back, he loses to right?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

That's true. I would like to see a character make him reach that point, though.

 

[JOE!]

Ganon wins, only the master sword (and link...it is written y'know) can defeat Ganon


(which again, after all this time I say: why bother even discussing Ganon's MU's when it's as simple as : does the character he's facign have a name that begins with L and ends with INK? if no, Ganon WINS.)

 

[Diddy Kong]

That's true. I would like to see a character make him reach that point, though.

So would I... The only characters that might come far are Samus, Sonic, Ike and maybe Pokemon Trainer (if it's about offence only). But if they'd beat him...

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Sonic already lost to him. Ike, I'm not so sure of. Pokemon Trainer & Samus might come close.

 

[JOE!]

But if they'd beat him...

that's the problem, nobody but Link can defeat ganondorf as they lack the tools...

so I ask: why even have these debates? When it comes time to do a Ganon match it should just be an auto +1 to Ganon

Edit: also, why are young/toon link higher than adult link?

 

[the king of murder]

How can it be an earthquake if they're on the top of a castle? And it doesn't do THAT much damage, especially if Link has the final Great Fairy's defense boost. Going by how much damage something does isn't exactly releative to its power, either. You could get killed by the chickens in that game faster than most bosses. Does that make the chickens more powerful?

Well, can't complain about the damage part. But the chicken thing was just easter egg.

Maybe I didn't use the right words. Shockwaves instead of earthquake.

He punched out two little kids. That's not exactly the most compelling argument(something with the power to make earthquakes, as you said, can't kill two little kids in one hit?)

Ganondorf doesn't want to kill Link and Zelda because he needed the Triforce.
Also I like how you are downgrading TLink and TZelda just because they are kids. Ness and Lucas sure are weaklings, right?

The explosion was from him colliding, not just from his power. Breaking from 'heavy chains' isn't a great measure of strength, and the sages could be as easy to kill as a regular human. And Ganondorf said it himself, the Triforce > Midna's peoples' magic.

He can do it anyway.

Creating 'earthquakes' that make tiles fall doesn't make you god, for the 2nd time. And notice that despite him always ruling like a god, he always gets beaten. Could be just the game mechanics, but pointing it out.

I never said that creating earthquakes makes you a god.

And of course he is going to lose if someone carries your weakness around+support of deitys and/or spirits together with two Triforce pieces combiened.

Limited range, save for TP. If he could teleport such long distances, why did he have to fly to the Pyramid in LttP? And where does he teleport at all in OoT?

Phantom Ganon could teleport through the paintings.

Levitation for the first two, not flight. Shape shifting in to a bat would obviously give you flight.

Fine then. Don't forget he can levitate in TP as well.

...I do recall him saying somewhere in the game that Agahnim was his alter-ego. Even if he did possess them, it's not exactly like they had the power to resist him.

If you possess someone, your mind and your soul is in another body. You have a second identity then. And you know how we call this person that is in you? Alter -ego.

Because Ganon is to Zelda as Bowser is to Mario? Ganon himself doesn't have immortality, the Triforce of Power gives it to him.

So? He still has it.

If he were invincible, he would not be hurt by anything and would be unstoppable. You can hurt him with any weapon, for example, in OoT, but you can only finish him with the Master Sword. If he were truly invincible, his own magic blasts hit back to him wouldn't hurt him either.

He is invulnerable to everything but the MS+L/S Arrows. It is stated in the games.

Sorry I argued with various other peoples about this. I have no intention of repeating myself all the time. You have your opinion and I have mine. We should respect our opinions and not bash each other.

Define powerful.

The big swords he had in OOT. Final battle.

He wasn't shown to have his trident at all in OoT, and note that he banished one of his own creations. Por que he could not have just banished Link in the final battle?

Phantom Ganon has a trident in OOT. He is a creation and clone of Ganondorf. So it's logical that everything PG can do Ganon can do better since he got his power from him.

In Alttp and FSA he banished Link without rituals into the Dark World

And why didnt he do it in the final battle? Why does Bowser not wish Mario dead since he has the Star Rod to wish for anything? Why didn't he killed Zelda instead of slapping her unconscious in WW? Ahh the questions.

Zant did the latter, but k.

And you know who gave Zant all his power? Ganondorf.

None of that is necessarily kinesis. Could all be magic, the sheer power of the Triforce, possession, etc.

Well we can just assume. But we can say for sure that he has a similar power.

He put a curse on an immobile enemy, he didn't turn Link into the bunny indefinitely, and he didn't turn Link into the wolf, the dark crystals found in the Twili's world did. Zant just implanted one onto his forehead.

An immobile object who has enough power to guard a tribe and forest from evil forces.

The crystal is part of the evil magic. Even Zelda could't heal him. It was a creation of evil magic(that belongs to Ganondorf). Zelda stated this herself.

Would anyone let him transform in the first place in a real fight?

They have no choice. Or he could just start his fights in his transformed modus.

He can be knocked off the horse lol

lol

He totally can't be seen or heard or smelled by any means at all when invisible, especially not items that reveal invisible things.

Calm down a bit. I'm not saying it is his trump card or a broken power. I just listed it as one of Ganons abilitys.

Barriers that have ways to be destroyed/gotten around.

Sure. If the enemy has the power.

Fairly easy to defeat, and not everybody would let him onto his horse in the first place.

Why does he have to be on his horse to summon them?

Because no one can create artificial light.

Did I say this ability is unbeatable? Well, if you think so.

I'm listening to good arguments. I believe Ganondorf can win pretty much every MU. You, however, need to stop trying. I'm tempted to not bother replying to you anymore.

Do what you want. I'm not stopping you. However I did not say that his other abilitys are better than all charas. And I said "Those people don't know Ganon good enough" because you guys are only bringing up his invincibility and how much he sucks without it. I listed up his powers because I wanted to prove that he has so much more than that. Those people gave me the impression that the only thing they know about him is his invicibility.

Yeah Ganon's invincibility is flawed at some points. But so are other charas invincibilitys. Nobody coplains about the invicibility of other charas(except maybe 1-2 persons) even though their invincibility is flawed as well.

@ShadowLink
I will reply to you tomorrow. I don't have enough time right now.

@JOE!
Look a few pages back.

 

[ShadowLink84]

True to his game, Ganon's invulnerable to everything BUT light/silver arrows, and the master sword. Having god powers, as how _clinton is describing, doesn't defy the word 'but' or 'only' in that sentence. A few other weapons may hurt him, but they can not kill him.

If we go strictly by what is true to their games, then unless they are using the equivalent of well, Gods themselves Sonic isn't going to be harmed.
Even more so since they aren't exactly carrying machines meant for Chaos energy now do they.
Sonic +6 wins plox?

_clinton, your logic on Ganon's invincibility could also be used for Mario, you should know that. Also, possessing/turning to stone the main character(s) of the game would be ironically dull to the storyline.

DON't try to call plothole when very often, te main reason for possession was explained.
Ganondorf does have the ability to possess an individual, but only under certain circumstances as we have seen thus far.

ShadowLink84, I'd reply to the rest of your post, but for now, let me tell you, that there is only ONE Ganondorf throughout the Zelda series.

THat's all good that you are saying it but there is no evidence to support such a thing.
if anything, it is contradicted by the OOT timeline split.
What about Link 1 and 2?

I'm pretty sure Mario breaks through things as well when he wants to...SMG/SMB3 sure showed the results of what happened to a fleet Bowser had...

my point was that we have characters who perform greater feats of strength and for some reason, they still lose.

Actually it should be IMO...

Link>Ganondorf>Midna

Midna is a female
Female's>All

I don't even really see Ganondorf's thing as flight anyway to a point...

Again same as before, others do it better.

You certainly have a point...after all...the series is going through a ****ed time line as a result of Zelda sending Link back through time in OoT in case some of you people forgot that...

****s traight.

No offense...but hacks don't count...
Canon wise Link had the master sword for fighting Ganondorf in TP...don't try and argue the canon

Actually the fishing pole was usable, and it is indeed possible to retain the wooden sword (until you get the Master sword.)
Let alone the sword he was impaled with was not exactly on par with the Master sword to be sure.

Of course...Ganondorf's magic can be reflected by some strange things...of course I really have to question how serious they are about them (bottles, and a bug-catching net people?)

Its hilarious

Of course...Ganondorf in his ultimate form...has been beat w/o the master sword (OoA/OoS)

Correct.

Well...I guess that does knock off natural polymorph magic off Ganondorf's list of skills then when you look at that...

Of course...with Link turning into a bunny rabbit...what does that say about him is what I want to know... ^_^

he is a nice guy, and horny.

Sonic and Mario and a lot of others have game mechs. that give the player an illusion of true invincibility...nothing more...

Again...please show me a spear that breaks through everything and a shield that blocks everything...

In the event that you reach a paradox the universe would remove them both.
The shield wont break, the spear attempts to break through.

Sonic and Mario have tinvncibility that required SPECIFIC situations to break.

Well...you are aware that the real reason it hit was because of him not expecting that...which also calls into question his powers of telepathy and such (if he can read minds...why didn't he get that?)

Simply because Ganondorf isn't as godly as people portray.

Because it is BS... ^_^

Exactly.

Yeah...way too many of the Zelda games don't agree with you on that whole Ganondorf doesn't get harmed thing...**** if it wasn't for the ToP in OoT/general constantly reviving him...he would have been beaten w/o even the master sword...after all...Link lost it during the during the 1st part...

Oh and it's not like the ToP is attached to him...after all...I'm sure that someone like Bowser would want power just as much as Ganondorf...and because the triforce chooses who can hold it BASED off who wants what more than the others...who would the triforce go to in a Bowser vs. Ganondorf fight?

Once it has chosen to be with someone it won't leave them.
Ganondorf emulated power, it was meant for him to possess.
The only reason Link lost the ToC was because he went into another universe.

He didn't live through that skull **** with the sword the “2nd time” (WW) it happened and even the 1st time (OoT)…yeah he was pretty much done in the match when that happened

WW's story goes OoT or something, WW, PH, ST from what I can see...Ganondorf hasn’t been in PH or ST…hell the triforce seems to be missing after WW through ST

OOT~~>WW
VVV
TP~~~>New game coming out.

THe triforce is in existence in the Zelda universe, it just hasn't been found.


@Joe: We evaluate the matchups to a T. Frankly, the fact that Ganondorf is winning is not because his abilities are greater that he actually defeats his opponent, but just because of the fact that he doesnt DIE.
Does not mean you cannot knock him out or seal him.
Abilities that several characters possess.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

www.Zeldalegends.net/index.php?n=article_25
^ This should explain why & how there's only one Ganondorf throughout the series.

"Under certain circumstances" could lead to a lot of confusion. Bowser's only capable of wishing with his starrod through the power of the star spirits, for example. The more rings Sonic has, the longer he stays super, but where will he find those rings in a plain neutral battlefield?

It was never proven, or shown anywhere that Sonic can't be harmed by anyone except "gods", no canonical evidence. Ganon has his evidence, it HAS been proven for him.

 

[Samochan]

Basically, ganondorf stays invulnerable to stuff when he retains his triforce piece of power. However, if you were to negate or take it away from him somehow, he'd become "mortal" again and could be killed. Till that happens, he stays immortal against other stuff besides master sword and light/silver arrows, even if he had suffered a mortal blow beforehand (see sages sword in tp). But he does retain the damage, he cannot regenerate as seen on tp again when sage's sword left a lasting impression on him. Triforce can be stolen, as ganondorf did and he also used those of zelda and link. And didn't his ToP fade away in the ending of TP? Unless I recall totally wrong.

So unless someone has something to negate ganon's triforce of power, aka special power (not an item even tho triforce is an artifact, it's more akin to power boost as it's essence is imbued to him), you can't kill ganny. Knocking him out of the battle is a different story tho, you could port him out of the arena, render him incapable to fight or possibly knock him out. All those should account for a victory. I've yet to see him resist mind control for example. Even if he can possess unconscious people and seems adept in mind arts himself, doesn't mean he can resist those himself. While ToP may make his body invulnerable, his mind is not.

 

[_clinton]

your logic on Ganon's invincibility could also be used for Mario, you should know that.

I have to wonder if you even understand the point that I’m making with Ganon’s “invincibility” anyway?

Logically…let us look at the meaning of invincibility again shall we?

“Incapable of being overcome or defeated; unconquerable.”

The term “Nigh Invulnerability” in case you can’t tell is what Ganondorf really has…if even that…

Also, possessing/turning to stone the main character(s) of the game would be ironically dull to the storyline.

So…are you saying that the reason Link isn’t being possessed is because of story mechs?

I like how you are just making him sound more powerful than what he is if you are…Of course… ShadowLink84 already replied to you on how it happened…

ShadowLink84, I'd reply to the rest of your post, but for now, let me tell you, that there is only ONE Ganondorf throughout the Zelda series.

But the timeline is split…

True to his game, Ganon's invulnerable to everything BUT light/silver arrows, and the master sword. Having god powers, doesn't defy the word 'but' or 'only' in that sentence. A few other weapons may hurt him, but they can not kill him.

So…I wonder how many times I’m going to bring the Magical Sword up before people finally get the point…

Oh and I have to love how you keep avoiding OoA/OoS and passing it off as not good because he was just revived…even though Link has been thrown into that land in the 1st place anyway because of the triforce and one of the theories to those games is that you are “in” the triforce…

Ganon wins, only the master sword (and link...it is written y'know) can defeat Ganon

I'm pretty sure you have never asked WHY Link can beat him or why the master sword can hurt him...because if you did...and then actually looked at other canons...you would actually see that plenty of other things logically should hurt/be a danger to him...

So would I... The only characters that might come far are Samus, Sonic, Ike and maybe Pokemon Trainer (if it's about offence only). But if they'd beat him...

Dude…it took Ganondorf 7 years to rule Hyrule…other characters can destroy the world in like a few minutes at worse…

Here are a couple…

-Roy-The Sword of Seals is the strongest out of the legendary weapons that are in the game overall…the legendary weapons put together could destroy/shape the world…and the sword of seals isn’t considered in that group…it is in its own class (I don’t think it has more power than the others put together…but it certainly could do more damage by itself than the others)

-Ness/Lucas-right…you can see the results of them using their power directly in Mother 3’s end…said to be universal power

-7 Star Kids-universal power if put together…

And why didnt he do it in the final battle? Why does Bowser not wish Mario dead since he has the Star Rod to wish for anything? Why didn't he killed Zelda instead of slapping her unconscious in WW? Ahh the questions.

Again…Bowser considers Mario more of an hated rival…he’d rather just make him suffer as much as possible (plus if you actually look at the script for that game…Bowser though Mario was no longer any threat to him after having the star rod because of Kammy Koopa’s thinking…so if anything…he didn’t just kill him because he didn’t see him as a threat)

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/n64/file/198849/52842

Uh...Kammy Koopa! You ARE sure that Mario can never defeat us, right?

Even more so since they aren't exactly carrying machines meant for Chaos energy now do they.

You really aren’t doing any favors for the argument when you bring up this IMO…you pretty much are saying what the Zelda side is saying with “Only Link can defeat Ganon”

We both feel the argument “only Link can defeat Ganon” is BS…but I feel it is BS because I’m looking at the WHY for how Ganondorf is harmed by things…

Chaos Energy has a definition for how it works in the 1st place…and it has shown what the powers of it can do if used…

Fighting a being that can destroy the world or another that eats dimensions for starters…because the term “chaos” implies to things like that when they have unlimited potential energy…
But if you look closely…a lot of other powers have world/universe destroying/altering properties as well (such as the triforce as well)…so…the next question in regards to this debate is…who has more of that energy at their use?

my point was that we have characters who perform greater feats of strength and for some reason, they still lose.

Yeah I know…however, I just also wanted to point out that Mario does a lot of things as well that make him a one-man army (As in…I was using your point of saying that Sonic > Ganondorf to help strengthen my point of Mario > Ganondorf…and to lower friction with any Sonic > Mario or Mario > Sonic debates that might come up right now)

Actually the fishing pole was usable,

I never said the fishing pole was a hack…I was talking about using the wooden sword to fight him…you canon wise can’t use the wooden sword to beat him…

The fishing pole thing is just more of a counter argument for anyone who tries to say Ganondorf is smart ^_^

he is a nice guy, and horny.

Ah man…why did you have to reply to this…I wanted to “keep it a secret from everyone!” ^_^

In the event that you reach a paradox the universe would remove them both.
The shield wont break, the spear attempts to break through.

Sonic and Mario have tinvncibility that required SPECIFIC situations to break.

So does Ganondorf according to the debates…and you should know how I feel about this stuff and trying to say something like “only Link can defeat Ganon” (why is of course the thing I’m going to bring up…then how come that stuff works on him will be the next point I’ll bring up)

 

[Ganonsburg]

lol, Clinton. It didn't take Ganon 7 years to take over Hyrule. He took it virtually instantly. Link opened up the sacred realm, Ganon took the ToP, then he took Hyrule. In fact, he started taking it even without the ToP, because we see him chasing out Zelda as he began his siege.

Also, you assume that we know which games go in what order. We don't. We just know that the timeline split. But at one point, they were the same person, with all the same powers. Because we can't know for sure when most of the games happen, we have to assume that Ganon has all of the powers he's demonstrated. And don't go grabbing just any timeline you find online. They're all theories, there's virtually no set-in-stone timeline that we have (....yet).

Also, you missed my point with the example. The point was that the original owner had no influence over the way the finder uses it. Don't take everything so literally. Even though the Triforce is intelligent, it can't do anything on its own, really. It talked to Link in aLttP, but it didn't force Link to do anything.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So, to summarise; Ganondorf can be hurt now.

 

[DoonKoon]

did you guys notice how deep the voice narrator for brawl's voice gets when he says Ganon's name? It's like he's afraid to get murdered lol

 

[PowerBomb]

did you guys notice how deep the voice narrator for brawl's voice gets when he says Ganon's name? It's like he's afraid to get murdered lol

Same for Wolf and Bowser... just an FYI

@Diddy: According to Samochan, Ganny has shown protection for body, but not to mind or something.

 

[Ganonsburg]

So, to summarise; Ganondorf can be hurt now.

We had already covered it some pages back, but yes. It's just that he has to be hurt in specific ways, and he can take a lot more of a beating than most people can take (or give...).

 

[IsmaR]

Well, can't complain about the damage part. But the chicken thing was just easter egg.

Maybe I didn't use the right words. Shockwaves instead of earthquake.

Very well.

Ganondorf doesn't want to kill Link and Zelda because he needed the Triforce.
Also I like how you are downgrading TLink and TZelda just because they are kids. Ness and Lucas sure are weaklings, right?

Lucas and Ness actually have powers, though. Toon Link doesn't even have the Triforce the first time he gets hit by Ganondorf, and Tetra only has a fragment of it that she didn't even know was the Triforce. On top of that, he didn't know either of them had the Triforce the first time he met them.

I never said that creating earthquakes makes you a god.

I was implying that you were implying it, since you brought it up so many times.

And of course he is going to lose if someone carries your weakness around+support of deitys and/or spirits together with two Triforce pieces combiened.

No johns.

Phantom Ganon could teleport through the paintings.

He could also be taken off/knocked off his horse by common arrows.

Fine then. Don't forget he can levitate in TP as well.

K.

If you possess someone, your mind and your soul is in another body. You have a second identity then. And you know how we call this person that is in you? Alter -ego.

So Zelda possessed a Sheikah mirite?
All seriousness aside, this has to do with what I mentioned before, that Ganon's possession technique(s) has never really been detailed.

So? He still has it.

He's been shown to lose the power, and with that I'd assume his immortality would too. I lol every time people count him getting stabbed at the end of WW counts as him "surviving" a stab to the head.

He is invulnerable to everything but the MS+L/S Arrows. It is stated in the games.

It's shown in the game(s) that that he can be hurt by other things, but only be killed by the strongest weapons you can get in the game. I'd argue that there has to be something else that could hurt him out there, but that could be argued later on.

Sorry I argued with various other peoples about this. I have no intention of repeating myself all the time. You have your opinion and I have mine. We should respect our opinions and not bash each other.

Agreed. I apologize if I came out as harsh, but it is what I was feeling.

The big swords he had in OOT. Final battle.

It's arguable that the pillars can only be broken by Ganondorf as a game mechanic. It adds to him being oh-so much more powerful than you/making it more difficult because you can't get items back whenever you'd like.

Phantom Ganon has a trident in OOT. He is a creation and clone of Ganondorf. So it's logical that everything PG can do Ganon can do better since he got his power from him.

Wasn't aware that that was a trident, but alright. But there is no real evidence that he uses the trident in that game other than 'he could use it.' Why Ganondorf chose to fight without a weapon in the first fight is still beyond me.

In Alttp and FSA he banished Link without rituals into the Dark World

Alrighty then.

And why didnt he do it in the final battle? Why does Bowser not wish Mario dead since he has the Star Rod to wish for anything? Why didn't he killed Zelda instead of slapping her unconscious in WW? Ahh the questions.

Meh.

And you know who gave Zant all his power? Ganondorf.

I wasn't to argue or deny that, but k.

Well we can just assume. But we can say for sure that he has a similar power.

Define similar. You can assume someone beats someone else because they have similar powers/weapons and such. In OoT he shot off dark energy waves that kept Navi from locking onto him, is that not similar in that Ganon's power drove Midna away?

An immobile object who has enough power to guard a tribe and forest from evil forces.

He alone couldn't keep the evil out of the forest, and he didn't guard them in a specific way.

The crystal is part of the evil magic. Even Zelda could't heal him. It was a creation of evil magic(that belongs to Ganondorf). Zelda stated this herself.

They were found in the Twilight Temple, which I doubt Ganondorf would have had anything in putting them there. The 'evil magic' wasn't his necessarily, it is only stated Zant used them, not that he/Ganondorf created them.

They have no choice. Or he could just start his fights in his transformed modus.

Just because Link follows the code of honor/the DBZ mantra of watching your enemy power up while doing nothing doesn't mean everybody would. In those few seconds someone might power up, set up a trap, or start attacking him. And he'd actually be more vulnerable in this state, methinks, as Ganon usually has a gaping weakness in this form(unless he's been permanently turned into Ganon)

Calm down a bit. I'm not saying it is his trump card or a broken power. I just listed it as one of Ganons abilitys.

M'kay.

Sure. If the enemy has the power.

K.

Why does he have to be on his horse to summon them?

Because he's never been shown to summon them any other way?

Did I say this ability is unbeatable? Well, if you think so.

You're the one who was implying that. lol

Do what you want. I'm not stopping you. However I did not say that his other abilitys are better than all charas. And I said "Those people don't know Ganon good enough" because you guys are only bringing up his invincibility and how much he sucks without it. I listed up his powers because I wanted to prove that he has so much more than that. Those people gave me the impression that the only thing they know about him is his invicibility

Yeah Ganon's invincibility is flawed at some points. But so are other charas invincibilitys. Nobody coplains about the invicibility of other charas(except maybe 1-2 persons) even though their invincibility is flawed as well..

Very well then.

The way I see it, people can beat Ganondorf until he's either the giant floaty head thingy/a form of Ganon, find a way to render him submissive(which would be ridiculously hard considering his abilities) or fail/let Ganondorf turn back to normal, rinse, repeat.

That all said, I still don't see Mario being able to pull that off. He has a few things to stall with(any invincibility-giving item, a few KO-preventing items(Shells/Charms in BiS for example, and Repel Gel or w.e) and some time-altering attacks/items from what I collect. Eventually all of that'll run out, though, and he doesn't have the required offensive abilities to take Ganondorf head on.

 

[BSP]

The more rings Sonic has, the longer he stays super, but where will he find those rings in a plain neutral battlefield?.

Everyone can come to these battles fully prepared, correct? That being said, Sonic can come with the his max amount of rings. We're actually limiting him at 1104 (? I kinda forgot) since the only reason it stopped there was because that was the highest amount of rings in a single level, but he can probably carry more.

It was never proven, or shown anywhere that Sonic can't be harmed by anyone except "gods", no canonical evidence. Ganon has his evidence, it HAS been proven for him.

The only people that could harm SS were dark Gaia, Solaris, and Super Ix. And even then, the most they could do was reduce the # of rings he has, not actually hurt him. Did anyone one else notice that the only way to lose Sonic's boss fights is to knock Sonic out of his super form so he would be unable to battle? No one has been able to outright kill Super Sonic. Correct me if I am wrong.

Are Sonic's games not canonical evidence?

 

[ShadowLink84]

www.Zeldalegends.net/index.php?n=article_25
^ This should explain why & how there's only one Ganondorf throughout the series.

The min issue is interpretation and the fact that he BLATANTLY twists the words around.

The man's name was Ganondorf, and his common name was Ganon of the race of evil thieves. Indeed, the King of Evil Ganon, the one who has threatened Hyrule so, was born at this time. (Zethar-II's translation)

According to Zethar, that last sentence implies or assumes that the reader already knows who Ganon is. "Duh," the reader is supposed to think, "they're talking about Ganon from the NES games." This sentence is saying that the Ganon we all know and love from the NES games was born right here.

I'll disagree with this part, why?
Simple.

"Ding dong, the witch is dead.
Which old witch?

Its that kind of thing, as in recognizing a previous character.
This, howeve, leads to poor interpretation.

"The one who threatened Hyrule thus so".
This actually is referring to future tense.
As in, this is the Ganondorf born in THIS tim (game) and has threatened Hyrule by doing the following, or will do the following.

Of course those who played the NES games would recognize, butthe main issue is that Link is a completely different being in this game.
Ganondorf also has a different history (its usually rehashed just like Link's is, havem't you noticed Link is always alone in the beginning? I guess every Link is the same link)

(On a side note, Wind Waker corroborates this story about "Ganon" being Ganondorf's common name. The names "Ganon" and "Ganondorf" are mixed almost interchangably in TWW. In fact, he is most often called Ganon by those who know about him best (such as the King, Valoo, Jabun, etc.) Sometimes they call him Ganondorf, and he calls himself Ganondorf.)

Irrelevant.

Cue Dr Robotnik being called Eggman while his formal name is Dr Ivo Robotnik.

Congratulations, he has the SAME NAME from game to game.
Considering the fact that this Ganodorf is from the OOT time line in which his beast form is called Ganon, it is no surprise the names are used interchangeably.

During the time when Link is an adult, conditions are intensified. Ganon, from the Super NES game, is a human form before he transforms into a monster. Ganon's elements change during the adult, since he changes into a monster
This time, the story really wasn't an original. We were dealing with the "The Imprisoning War of the Seven Sages" from the SNES edition Zelda. To give that game a little "secret" recognition, I thought that keeping the "pigness" in Ganon would be the correct course. So we made him a beast "with the feeling of a pig."

These two quotes should make it pretty obvious that Ocarina of Time is meant to be a further explanation of the Imprisoning War account in the ALttP manual. It should also be obvious that Ganon(dorf) in OoT and Ganon in ALttP are the same person, because, well, the creators said so.

*head explodes*

This is called twisting words around. Its very, very bad to do.
If one has not realized, miyamoto tend's to be very straight forward and hence as a result, people tend to look at things more deeply.
in Short, it was a comparison.

He ganon from the NES game was the basis for the Ganon in N64 Ganon.
In terms of their personality and behavior (you really dont see much of Ganon during childhood era).

He also stated that in the Adult era, Ganon is much more monstrous, much more evil and gluttonous and greedy.

Considering the fact he is speaking IMPLICITLY about OOT, and only used NES as a COMPARISON, it is incorrect to say "oh this proves All ganon's are one and the same."
Especially when this does not address the many other Zelda games.

Now let's get to the second quote, the primary part which really shows that all this is, is a big *** strawman.

This time, the story really wasn't an original.

basically, the storyline in regards to OOT zelda was based ON LTTP's storyline, but is not a continuation of that timeline.

Even more evidence points to the fact that this is IMPOSSIBLE to use as proofing wheny ou consider, EVERYTHING else.

There is no mentioning of Ganondorf in the stories of OOT except what occurs during the present period.
No statement on such a great evil known as Ganondorf appearing in the past.
Let alone geography is different by a MASSIVE amount.
No stories about Ganon being stopped in the past.
No story about Ganon being revived.

Stop reaching or straws, because nothing has EVER been said to imply that Ganondorf is the same person in every single game. Game canon surely does not state it either.

"Under certain circumstances" could lead to a lot of confusion. Bowser's only capable of wishing with his starrod through the power of the star spirits, for example. The more rings Sonic has, the longer he stays super, but where will he find those rings in a plain neutral battlefield?

For Ganondorf to possess an individual they needed to be willing to give him control (Agahnim) or were in a catatonic state (Zelda).
Those were the times he possessed people.

Super Sonic is a result of the Chaos emerald's, not the rings.
THe only thing the rings have ever done is act as a TIMER.
They have never had any influence on Super Sonic's abilities.

Bowser I do not know about.

It was never proven, or shown anywhere that Sonic can't be harmed by anyone except "gods", no canonical evidence. Ganon has his evidence, it HAS been proven for him.

Ganon's evidence is the same as Sonic's.

Why?
Sonic Heroes.

Eggman: OMG METAL SONIC WENT AWESOMNESS. ONLY THE EMERALDS CAN BEAT HIM!
Sonic and friends: We have them oh so conveniently.
Ensue sonic transforming and icking Metal Sonic's ***.

Metal Sonic < Sonic.
Thus
Sonic<?
Well then we come to SA1


Chaos.
The only way to defeat him was to seal him, or to use the power of the CHaos emeralds against him.
Event hen the Chaos emeralds did not kill him, they only nullified his abilities (positive and negative) and purified him

Concerning Super Sonic, the only beings who have hurt him are the following.
Machines from eggman SPECIFICALLY attuned to Chaos Energy.
iblis who was capable of tearing apart reality.
Chaos energy is the power of reality.
The only thing that apparently causes harmt o Sonic is, beings of chaos energy or those who tear apart time and space and reality.

So by that logic, everyone here loses because, they cant do the same thing Sonic can.

At least what i am saying has merit.

The only thing with Ganon is what he even says himself "I cannot be kiled by crap that isn't holy"

Wel evne if he cannot be KILLED, he can still take damage and can still be harmed as has been seen in SEVERAL of the Zelda games.

Obviously there is a contradiction.
Sonic's is consistent and while implied, is still there.

 

[_clinton]

In regards to the king of murder; I noticed in your newest post that you still think Ganon just sent Link into the Dark World against his will in LttP; so did you forget the fact that Link had reasons for having to go there or what? What with the 7 maidens having their blood spilled on Ganon’s seal that keep him in the Dark World being broken, it was only a matter of time before Ganon would get out, unless Link did something about that.

Plus, considering how Link didn’t really have free access to the Dark World (logically, he canon wise only had a glimpse of what it was like by that point) already. Ganon sort of did Link a favor sending him there. Plus he didn’t have a choice; Link was kicking his *** in case you forgot that, and if Ganon lost his vessel into the light world that he had with the wizard then, chances are he would be set back even more (or there would have been nothing Link could have done to stop Ganon from being free, except find another path into the dark world himself)

Oh and it’s not like Link was trapped there; remember the magic mirror?

That all said, I still don't see Mario being able to pull that off. He has a few things to stall with(any invincibility-giving item, a few KO-preventing items(Shells/Charms in BiS for example, and Repel Gel or w.e) and some time-altering attacks/items from what I collect. Eventually all of that'll run out, though, and he doesn't have the required offensive abilities to take Ganondorf head on.

Ah no, Mario is a star child who is canon wise more powerful than Bowser is according to the back story behind YI DS. Again, the star children when all of their powers are put together have universal level power.

1/7th or so (if all of them are to be seen as equal, which we know they aren’t because Mario appears > Bowser) of a universal as in “one god” power is a lot more impressive IMO than a guy who’s god power is only a fraction it seems of the 1/3rd “one god” that made it (if you think the triforce parts are = to the respective god that made them, I’m going to have to disagree with you)

Hell, things like Majora seemed more powerful than Ganondorf from OoT is IMO.

It didn't take Ganon 7 years to take over Hyrule. He took it virtually instantly. Link opened up the sacred realm, Ganon took the ToP, then he took Hyrule. In fact, he started taking it even without the ToP, because we see him chasing out Zelda as he began his siege.

Ganondorf was still being secretive about his “siege” by the point Zelda fled from the castle IIRC, considering how only a lone guard died in the back alley of Hyrule Town, and no one else was in a panic about things going on (even at the castle) shows that.

He only started his real up front conquest when he had the ToP, and considering how he had to go to some extremes with some other races of Hyrule (Gorons and Zoras of course), and because of how the game is worded from when Link shows up (IIRC, the Gorons where just done being imprisoned for Volvagia; who sounds like it was just revived when Link showed up) shows that the things of Hyrule didn’t just bend over for him.

But yeah, I guess you have a point; chances are it was faster than just 7 years for him to conquer it. Still though it certainly didn’t look like people were very 100% afraid of his rule yet, because as WW shows; when they did truly start to lose hope, they begged the gods to do something about him.

He certainly wins in the end of his world control (not just Hyrule, which BTW is the only area said to be fully taken over in OoT if you think about it) w/o a “chosen one” or two to stop him, but it doesn’t just happen right away.

Also, you assume that we know which games go in what order.

Ah, no I don’t actually. Notice how I never said any of the Ganondorfs are the same at all or “this one is a different one from this one” when I said the timeline was split. I also never said that his abilities should be divided at all in case you didn’t notice that, in fact I think his abilities should be pooled into one. However, I’m also aware that there are more than just one Ganondorf because of what the series says, but I don’t think it matters any.

In case you didn’t know, I’m under the theory that all of the Links, Zeldas, and such should be counted as one character, because the series supports the notation of them being reborn (well “revived” with Ganon’s case). Plus I feel it would just make some things easier, seeing as to how the timeline is ****ed up.

Of course, I also feel that way about Ninten, Ness, and Lucas just to let you know because of how PK works anyway in theory, and of course canon wise their power source is quoted as being the same name at least once as “the power of the earth”.

Even though the Triforce is intelligent, it can't do anything on its own, really. It talked to Link in aLttP, but it didn't force Link to do anything.

I also disagree with that considering how the only reason Ganondorf doesn’t have the full thing is because the triforce has a safe guard on it.

Considering that the Zelda series supports the idea of a “chosen one” shows that someone/thing of some higher power chose Link and Zelda to be the wielder of the ToC and the ToW, and considering how whenever the gods intervene personally, their response it to **** the world instead of just dealing with the problem in person; I don’t see the gods as being the ones who chose Link and Zelda to hold their parts. Not when it is clear the triforce is aware of what is going on as well. However, that is just my view on it.

We had already covered it some pages back, but yes. It's just that he has to be hurt in specific ways, and he can take a lot more of a beating than most people can take (or give...).

Most of the characters talked about in this thread have powers that amount to dealing massive destruction to large amounts of land or world sized areas easily and/or have dealt with world + size threats.

They most certainly are not out matched for dealing with Ganondorf.

The only people that could harm SS were dark Gaia, Solaris, and Super Ix. And even then, the most they could do was reduce the # of rings he has, not actually hurt him.

You are aware that rings are used as a representation of a life bar in Sonic right? (Except the RPG, where they are money only) As in, if he is losing them somehow, he is being hurt (which could also imply that being super hurts him when you think about it)

Oh and Super Ix caused him to lose “HP” (because that is the RPG that I’m talking about), and Super Sonic vs. Dark Gaia in the PS360 game is represented by a life bar (that you can restore with rings) instead of the same system used pretty much in Sonic 06.

Oh and canon wise, Knuckles has knocked Sonic out of super form, and Eggman himself in Sonic Unleashed ****ed him up pretty badly in his super form after tricking him (and Sonic called Knuckles a knucklehead ^_^ oh and you can’t tell me he wasn’t hurt after that event)

"Ding dong, the witch is dead.
Which old witch?

Remember, never sing that song at a funeral or going to a funeral; you’ll look like an ******* (sorry, the only thing I can think of when I see that is the Simpsons)

 

[DoonKoon]

its deeper for Ganon powerbomb

 

[ShadowLink84]

You are aware that rings are used as a representation of a life bar in Sonic right? (Except the RPG, where they are money only) As in, if he is losing them somehow, he is being hurt (which could also imply that being super hurts him when you think about it)

Oh and canon wise, Knuckles has knocked Sonic out of super form, and Eggman himself in Sonic Unleashed ****ed him up pretty badly in his super form after tricking him (and Sonic called Knuckles a knucklehead ^_^ oh and you can’t tell me he wasn’t hurt after that event)

Actually they haven't.
They have only functioned as a timer. Or as a method of dictating how much energy he has left in his super form.
Of course in Sonic Unleashed this is kinda thrown out the window @_@

I truly do think the rings are just a timer, only because of the fact hey serve NO other purpose.

The knuckles thing was a plothole.
He NEVER repeats it, ever, in fact,t he whole reason it occured was so that when you first play the game, you dont break it by being super Sonic.
Plothole is plothole
In Sonic Unleashed Eggman DRAINED his super form's energy and turned him into REGULAR form.

So let's see, we'll go by the Ganon logic here.

Unless you can specifically drain Chaos Energy, are an actual being that transcends time and space, you can't hurt Sonic.

+6 Sonic wins now?
At least my argument would make sense while the ones with Ganondorf are so **** iffy.

Oh and Super Ix caused him to lose “HP” (because that is the RPG that I’m talking about), and Super Sonic vs. Dark Gaia in the PS360 game is represented by a life bar (that you can restore with rings) instead of the same system used pretty much in Sonic 06.

Sonic and the dark brotherhood doesn't even exist canon wise.
Its like the rush series.
Its a spin off that never happened.
Forgot to address that.

 

[_clinton]

Actually they haven't.
They have only functioned as a timer. Or as a method of dictating how much energy he has left in his super form.

Dude, they function as a timer for a health system when you think about it. Looking at how the game play mechs. are used in those games, also notice how the rings have canon importance (they have scripted info on them for canon fights such as in SA2)?

So looking at those facts; are you really going to try and tell me they aren't a measure for a health bar in various games? They clearly are used for a health bar in the PS360 version of SU as you are aware of.

I truly do think the rings are just a timer, only because of the fact hey serve NO other purpose.

Too bad they have info in the canon story script showing that they aren't as far as I can see huh?

I mean look at how Super Sonic has evolved for how the games he has been in:
For three games+ they are used as a timer (StH3, SA, SA2 for starters), for another (Sonic 06) timer + "health bar of some sort", for another they did away with the timer (SU except in the PS2/Wii version) entirely and just rewrote that bar system.

I personally think there is a reason for why they have been on a timer instead, ever wonder why many characters can't swim in games despite there being no real good reason for it?

I mean, are you aware of how hard it can be to program new ways to play in games for one thing? Memory is only one issue for the things with swimming in case you don't know (And how pointless it would be for these most of the time in Super Sonic's case? I mean the thing would only really be used for one thing in the games!)

So it is clear that the people who made Sonic don't see Super Sonic as being invincible really.

The knuckles thing was a plothole.
He NEVER repeats it, ever, in fact,t he whole reason it occured was so that when you first play the game, you dont break it by being super Sonic.

Here is a fun fact for you in case you forgot this info, Knuckles has only been Sonic's enemy for the canon story for really only one time for StH3 (SA1 for the DC is more of a misunderstanding for their fight, and Sonic wasn't super of course)

So, in that he has only canon wise "faced" super sonic one time. Not twice, not three times, just once. Realistically speaking for the canon of that game, Sonic only has proof of him going super for the final D-Day Zone in it (unless you want to try and explain to me why he didn't just fly in several areas of that game in super form).

However, Sonic isn't the only character Knuckles has faced in a super form (Metal Sonic in Knuckles Chaotix with the chaos rings) and he has hurt the thing, without even matching super energy for himself in that fight.

So, factoring that stuff in and his history with controlling the Master Emerald to make things that use chaos energy weaker canon wise (Knuckles is stronger canon wise than Sonic IMO because of this little fact); don't you think he could hurt Sonic in his super form again if he really wanted to?

In Sonic Unleashed Eggman DRAINED his super form's energy and turned him into REGULAR form.

Yeah, and when that happened you are aware that Sonic was hurt from it being forced?

So let's see, we'll go by the Ganon logic here.
At least my argument would make sense while the ones with Ganondorf are so **** iffy.

Well at least you aren't serious with it so far, or else I would have blown a gasket or something ^_^

Sonic and the dark brotherhood doesn't even exist canon wise.
Its like the rush series.
Its a spin off that never happened.
Forgot to address that.

I don't really see it as never happened, I see it more of a "what if?"

After all, it does source other Sonic games that did canon wise happen with it (Sonic Battle)

 

[the king of murder]

Um.
The Goddess' could ahve just, you know, yanked his power away.
They just, went the asshat approach.

Don't you think it would be a lot easier just to take away his power instead of flooding everything they have created?

Sorry, Ganon was not a god.

Ganon is not a god. However his power is compareable to one.

TP Zelda was not even inside her body. It is supported that her soul was with Midna.
Zant was not possessed, he was a lackey.
Agahnim was possessed but he was a weakling.

I'm sure that Ganon has strong power of manipulation. He did brainwash all the Hyrule Soldiers after all in Alttp.

Zelda part is true but he still took over her. It's questionable if he could still do this with Zelda's soul in her body. But he has atleast the power to mess around with someone's mind.

Zant part is true. But what made me think that Zant was possessed is his character change. If an insane madman gets power from a "god" they usually get more insane. But he acted almost like Ganon. Calm, arrogant and like a master tactician. Of course he is in his usual insane self when you meet him the last time probably because Ganondorf was reborn in the Light World and didn't need him anymore thus leaving him behind. That's just a theory so don't bother with this.

And we absolutly know nothing about Agahnim except that he is a wizard(priest in JP version). Calling someone weak without knowing him/her is prejudice with no back-up.

Link is immortal by that logic.
Hey did yo ever think that maybe its a DIFFERENT GANONDORF!?

Ganondorf has the power of immortality.
Link has not. Simple as that.

Fishing pole.
Link1 and Link 2 did not use the Master sword to beat Ganondorf.
TP you can use the ordon sword (hack) wood sword (hack) or fishing pole to beat him.
Let alone he was not invulnerable because the sage's sword did great harm to him.
He was very powerful, but not invincible

Wait a minute! Hacks doesn't count. I saw a video and tried this myself. Ordon Sword and Wood Sword didn't touch Ganondorf or Ganon at all.

The Fishing pole is an easter egg that's not canon in-games. It's just a silly thing the creators did for the lulz. Same with the bottle glitch.

Ganondorf got the ToP after he was stabbed. When he pulled the sword out of his chest, he clearly showed no pain. And you know invincibility=/=healing power. He still had the wound because he got it before the ToP activated.

Did you know he dies in each of those games? Except OOT of course.

Actually, we don't really know what happened to him. It wasn't clear enough.

They were his minions.

Volvagia and Stallord lived way before Ganondorf was born.

*facedesk*
Ganondorf used magic to have the castle levitate, NOT psychokinesis.
Zelda was also, as usual, in a helpless state.

TP: Dont recall this occurring. You mean the Zant part?

Zelda was in a helpless state because she was trapped by that power.

And yeah Zant got all his power from Ganondorf.

Btw Ganondorf himself used it on Midna too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxpxB6X-wn8&feature=related

After a lots of preparation.

Actually it takes less than a second to create one.

Sonic and Mario and alot of others have TRUE invincibility.

No, they don't. In fact their invincibility is just as flawed as Ganondorf's.

So he can dodge very fast sword movements but not dodge a deflected arrow with HILARIOUS start up time

Yeah game mechanics. And he didn't had the ToP at the end.

Sonic: *timestops*
GAME!

*Teleports Sonic into the Dark World.*

Just because Link follows the code of honor/the DBZ mantra of watching your enemy power up while doing nothing doesn't mean everybody would. In those few seconds someone might power up, set up a trap, or start attacking him. And he'd actually be more vulnerable in this state, methinks, as Ganon usually has a gaping weakness in this form(unless he's been permanently turned into Ganon)

Well he can start in the transformed modus. And the only time he had a weak point was in OOT.

Because he's never been shown to summon them any other way?

Doesn't mean he can't.

You're the one who was implying that. lol

I was?

Very well then.

The way I see it, people can beat Ganondorf until he's either the giant floaty head thingy/a form of Ganon, find a way to render him submissive(which would be ridiculously hard considering his abilities) or fail/let Ganondorf turn back to normal, rinse, repeat.

That all said, I still don't see Mario being able to pull that off. He has a few things to stall with(any invincibility-giving item, a few KO-preventing items(Shells/Charms in BiS for example, and Repel Gel or w.e) and some time-altering attacks/items from what I collect. Eventually all of that'll run out, though, and he doesn't have the required offensive abilities to take Ganondorf head on.

Agreed. But to think Mario was able to tie with Samus (who is in my opinion really broken) is impressive. That's why we should analyze a character's abilitys more deeply so everyone has a fair chance.

Btw with giant floaty head thing you mean that flaming big head of Ganon in TP, right? I was wondering about that form too.

 

[IsmaR]

TP Ganon had that kinda big and hard to miss scar on his underbelly.

 

[Ganonsburg]

TP Ganon had that kinda big and hard to miss scar on his underbelly.

In order to use it, you'd have to hit that specific spot, the other places were covered up by his armor. Meanwhile, Mario, with no armor, is running around. Maybe there's no specific weak spot, but his entire body is exposed. Depending on the attack Mario uses, Ganon could just teleport out of the way, sidestep it, block it, turn around, etc. Mario would have a harder time blocking and sidestepping because he has less room for failure (Ganon can sidestep and be okay with his arm being hit...Mario not so much).

 

[JOE!]

Holy ****, what is with the back and forth walls of text?

anywho, it seems you all have come to the conclusion that nothing but light/gold arrows and master sword can kill, let alone harm ganondorf.

on that note, who the hell on the cast ('sides link...and zelda?) can possibly actually face him?


Would Samus's Light Beam be of any effect?

 

[IsmaR]

Said it before, he can be harmed by just about anything, but not killed. Hookshot, Deku Nuts, regular/magic arrows, and the Megaton Hammer/Biggoron's Sword all work in OoT, just need to finish him with the Master Sword. I'm not 100% sure, but I think you can hit Ganondorf during the swordfight in TP with regi;ar arrows/anything fast enough to use repeatedly to get him off guard(which isn't too common when he's carrying around the ball and chain and whatnot), and he can be hurt by Wolf Link's teeth in his beast form/arrows to the forehead.

And I was referring to Beast Ganon, not Ganondorf, Ganonsburg. I do agree that Mario has a much bigger consequence coming to him if he messes up, though. Ganon Ganondorf Ganonsburg Gannonbanned God**** Ganon. There I never wanna say Ganon again.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Dude, they function as a timer for a health system when you think about it. Looking at how the game play mechs. are used in those games, also notice how the rings have canon importance (they have scripted info on them for canon fights such as in SA2)?

So looking at those facts; are you really going to try and tell me they aren't a measure for a health bar in various games? They clearly are used for a health bar in the PS360 version of SU as you are aware of.

*facepalm*
Do you see rings come flying out of Sonic when he is hit?
No.
Don't you think its a wee bit incosistent that if the rings were a form of health for him that they would be noted as they are in EVERY single game?

hell the rings have nothing to do with Super SOnic because its a result of CHAOS ENERGY.
The rings only unction as a timer, and the fact that you can remain as Sonic indefinitely in Sonic Unleashed in the PS3/360 version is proof that they weren''t involved in that boss battle.

N SA2 they say "We'll take turns so we can conserve energy".

Not "So we can conserve our rings"
Let alnoe they are hit repeatedly by tons of stuff, they aren't losing rings so obviously, the rings are not health bar's but timers.

Too bad they have info in the canon story script showing that they aren't as far as I can see huh?

link please.
I own most if not all the canon Sonic games (Sonic 06 never occurred canon wise).

I mean look at how Super Sonic has evolved for how the games he has been in:
For three games+ they are used as a timer (StH3, SA, SA2 for starters), for another (Sonic 06) timer + "health bar of some sort", for another they did away with the timer (SU except in the PS2/Wii version) entirely and just rewrote that bar system.

Um no.
In Sonic 06, once you ran out of rings, you fell out of super form and DIED.
Why? Because Solaris was capable of actually hurting you, so the rings werent actual health.
You lose rings=losing energy=your timer is cut because you do not have as much energy.
Otherwise, they wouldn't replenish themselves whenever you switch out the hogs, even though there were OBVIOUSLY no rings present in neither SA2 nor in Sonic 06.

In Unleashed same thing, and considering how EXHAUSTED Sonci was afterwards, its obvious they werent at all representative of his health as they were a timer and have consistently remained a timer.

In fct, Sonic Unleashed wii shows this by the fac tthat whenever he does is insane im going to knock your eyes uot move, he consumes the rings, further evidence they are a timer not health.

I personally think there is a reason for why they have been on a timer instead, ever wonder why many characters can't swim in games despite there being no real good reason for it?

Sonic runs across water

I mean, are you aware of how hard it can be to program new ways to play in games for one thing? Memory is only one issue for the things with swimming in case you don't know (And how pointless it would be for these most of the time in Super Sonic's case? I mean the thing would only really be used for one thing in the games!)

Super Sonic can fly.
only reason he didnt fly in Sonic 3?
it would ahve broke the game to the point where it is point A -B. Hell Super Sonic already broke the game, it would have made it completely borin to ignore all the loop de loops and springs and what not.

So it is clear that the people who made Sonic don't see Super Sonic as being invincible really.

because being crushed by two slo moving blocks makes TONS of sense right?
No.

Here is a fun fact for you in case you forgot this info, Knuckles has only been Sonic's enemy for the canon story for really only one time for StH3 (SA1 for the DC is more of a misunderstanding for their fight, and Sonic wasn't super of course)

So, in that he has only canon wise "faced" super sonic one time. Not twice, not three times, just once. Realistically speaking for the canon of that game, Sonic only has proof of him going super for the final D-Day Zone in it (unless you want to try and explain to me why he didn't just fly in several areas of that game in super form).

Sonic 3 came out and was an incomplete game.
Wen Sonic3 & Knuckles came out, it revealed the complete game along with the ability to fly.
To program the ability for Sonic to fly in super form would have completely ruined the entire point of playing.
COMPLETELY.

SF2 Akuma would be considered crap compared to how broken Super Sonic would ahve been if he could fly during the regular levels.

Lt alone the fact that it was NOT explained, the fact that it makwes absolutely no sense because of characters (Metal Sonic) who duplicated Knuckles ability was UNABLE to repeat it despite the increased amountof power they possessed, obviously hints to it being a plot hole.

However, Sonic isn't the only character Knuckles has faced in a super form (Metal Sonic in Knuckles Chaotix with the chaos rings) and he has hurt the thing, without even matching super energy for himself in that fight.

Chaos rings=/=Chaos emeralds.
The fact Metal Sonic could be harmed after using the Chaos rings obviously shows they were an inferior form.
you can hurt him with Vector and Charmy and Espio and they are not in tune with Chaos energy like Knuckles is.

So, factoring that stuff in and his history with controlling the Master Emerald to make things that use chaos energy weaker canon wise (Knuckles is stronger canon wise than Sonic IMO because of this little fact); don't you think he could hurt Sonic in his super form again if he really wanted to?/quote]
Nope.

Fact of the matter is, Sonic beats the hell out of Knuckles. Its part of why he faded as a rival, because Sonic is that much better.
your IMO is meaningless because of allt he abilities that Sonic has when in comparison to knuckles.
great he can tell the master emerald to shut off the Chaos emerald's power. That doesn't mean anything.
Let alone that even if it turned out that for some reason, which i emphasize has never been repeated, knuckles could knock Sonic out of super form, it wouldn't matter because Knuckles is not in this tierlist.

Yeah, and when that happened you are aware that Sonic was hurt from it being forced?

Um dur?
Now read what you posted.

Well at least you aren't serious with it so far, or else I would have blown a gasket or something ^_^

*shrugs*

I don't really see it as never happened, I see it more of a "what if?"

What if's? =/= Canon

After all, it does source other Sonic games that did canon wise happen with it (Sonic Battle)

Don't you think it would be a lot easier just to take away his power instead of flooding everything they have created?

Ensue knuckles argument.
Yeah it makes no sense, its a plothole.

Ganon is not a god. However his power is comparable to one.

It isn't, because he isn't capable of recreating an entire world like the actual goddesses' of his games did.
He is powerful yes, he isn't anywhere near a god.

I'm sure that Ganon has strong power of manipulation. He did brainwash all the Hyrule Soldiers after all in Alttp.

Yet he didn't brainwash the King or the sage's descendants.
Gee, makes you think, what happened there?
Instead he killed the king and imprisoned the descendants.
If his manipulation was that strong, he would NEVER have needed to imprison the descendants or kill off the King.

Zelda part is true but he still took over her. It's questionable if he could still do this with Zelda's soul in her body. But he has atleast the power to mess around with someone's mind.

Zelda's soul was not in her body.
End story. Thats the reason he possessed it. Cause it was empty.
Otherwise, he could have just done it again.
Obviously he can't do it to a strong willed individual or an individua with their soul still inside.
Now you are just trying to make up abilities.

Zant part is true. But what made me think that Zant was possessed is his character change. If an insane madman gets power from a "god" they usually get more insane. But he acted almost like Ganon. Calm, arrogant and like a master tactician. Of course he is in his usual insane self when you meet him the last time probably because Ganondorf was reborn in the Light World and didn't need him anymore thus leaving him behind. That's just a theory so don't bother with this.

Actually your theory is incorrect.
Primarily because Zant acted like a fathful servant even before Ganondorf's influence upon him.
Madmen are very good at appearing sane, what caused him to crack was the fact that his plan's to retain power were falling apart.

And we absolutly know nothing about Agahnim except that he is a wizard(priest in JP version). Calling someone weak without knowing him/her is prejudice with no back-up.

Never said Agahnim was weak.
Note the word OR (thre shold be an OR).
Agahnim allowed himself to be possessed.

Ganondorf has the power of immortality.
Link has not. Simple as that.

Immortality=/= invincibility.
The fact that he was also reduced to a big floating fog head probably means he can die, but that he won't move on per sei and can thus be revived in a body.

The fact he needed to be reborn is enough to say his TP version can die.

Wait a minute! Hacks doesn't count. I saw a video and tried this myself. Ordon Sword and Wood Sword didn't touch Ganondorf or Ganon at all.

hmm, then most likely I am mistaken.

The Fishing pole is an easter egg that's not canon in-games. It's just a silly thing the creators did for the lulz. Same with the bottle glitch.

Still did damage.

Ganondorf got the ToP after he was stabbed. When he pulled the sword out of his chest, he clearly showed no pain. And you know invincibility=/=healing power. He still had the wound because he got it before the ToP activated.

when you are insane it tends to overrule pain, cause if you noticed, Link merely bounced his own magic attack at him when he possessed zelda, and that obviously hurt.
As did getting his *** knocked over by midna or getting shot in the face with a bow.
(yes you can knock pig Ganon over with a bow)

Actually, we don't really know what happened to him. It wasn't clear enough.

We do, he died.
If he didn't die, he would have come back.
Has he come back? no.
He is dead.
If he's not dead, he is sealed, which obviously means he can be defeated, and the fact he can't rip open dimensions means Sonic could warp him to an empty dimension and leave him there.

Volvagia and Stallord lived way before Ganondorf was born.

Then something happened that was not explained.
*shrugs*
Either Volvagia and Stallord did not truly die, or their essence was still left behind to be revived.

Ether way reviving people is meaningless.

Zelda was in a helpless state because she was trapped by that power.

Somewhat, but she also didnt exactly have a chance to defend herself.
If he was soooo incredible, he would have found Zelda long ago.

And yeah Zant got all his power from Ganondorf.

Btw Ganondorf himself used it on Midna too.

I am kinda confused, what part of the vid are you referring to exactly?

Actually it takes less than a second to create one.

Which incarnation?
It isn't the same Ganondorf.

No, they don't. In fact their invincibility is just as flawed as Ganondorf's./quote]
Sonic is harmed only when he meets a power equal to his own.
Which is basically the ability to rip apart reality.
Don't know about Mario.

Yeah game mechanics. And he didn't had the ToP at the end.

Neither did Link and Tetra.
hell it hasn't shown itself to do anything except make him really durable.

*Teleports Sonic into the Dark World.*

*moves to the side as the beam misses*
or
*moves away*

or

*rips apart reality and comes back*

Yeah Super sonic can do that.

Well he can start in the transformed modus. And the only time he had a weak point was in OOT.

He was capable of being harmed in LTTP without a weak point.
He also suffered pain from being shot in the face with a light arrow.
Link also can't reach that high to hit him.

Agreed. But to think Mario was able to tie with Samus (who is in my opinion really broken) is impressive. That's why we should analyze a character's abilitys more deeply so everyone has a fair chance.

Btw with giant floaty head thing you mean that flaming big head of Ganon in TP, right? I was wondering about that form too.

He died.
He had to be reborn.
his soul doesn't move on probably acuse oft he ToP or he is too strong willed.
Either way, he died, and has done so repeatedly but needs to be revived.
key word , DIED, many of his incarnations have died.

anywho, it seems you all have come to the conclusion that nothing but light/gold arrows and master sword can kill, let alone harm ganondorf.

NO WE DID NOT.


Put in caps lock because apparently you don't know how to read very well.

Would Samus's Light Beam be of any effect?

no.

 

[JOE!]

so he can be hurt, but not killed by anyone else?

so how can he be beaten again?

(also, he'd at best just tie with ike as he cant hurt ike through his blessing, etc)

 

[YesNoMaybeSo]

True to his games, Super Sonic's ring = his timer for his Super Sonic form.

 

[_clinton]

In order to use it, you'd have to hit that specific spot, the other places were covered up by his armor.

I’m pretty sure the main points that are to be said about Ganondorf’s sword wound is that it affected him pretty badly throughout the entire game of TP.

Also I like how you think Mario has no armor on, haven’t you played the various Mario games out there and notice what he can take? Chances are the clothing that Mario is wearing is either “blessed” because the kingdom is filled with magic or very durable as well if anything. Hell, there are plenty of canon examples showing that Mario’s just fine in the “armor” department; weapons aren’t the only things Mario can come across in the various games.

Just because Mario isn’t in the dark ages like Ganondorf is doesn’t mean his suit that he is wearing is bad, hell I think you are giving too much credit to Ganondorf’s armor on that note when you actually look at the armor his stuff is based off of (there are tons of traits that are to be thought of when looking at suits of armor, such as the flaws dealing with how many parts of the body are still open)

Said it before, he can be harmed by just about anything, but not killed.

Yeah, instead the main way of finishing him off comes in the form of the tools made by the various goddess'

And I still want to know why the Zelda/Ike FE fans think that Zelda's/Ike's goddess' > everything else in the other games here

Do you see rings come flying out of Sonic when he is hit?

Again, this is my point about programming different types of play (it’s bloody hard to do)

I mean, how are you going to show Sonic losing rings when the way he restores said energy in the 1st place is to pick up the ring? If done wrong (and it would have been easy to do wrong) you could have just non-stop picked them up again and again if he was just to keep losing rings, and they didn’t want that of course.

But you are aware that Sonic has had “rings” being shown sucked out of him before right? (Sonic Advance 1 & 2 IIRC has Sonic lose rings if he gets trapped by certain things)

hell the rings have nothing to do with Super SOnic because its a result of CHAOS ENERGY.

It’s a result of chaos energy yes, but my point is rings are being used as a measure of how much chaos energy is left out of that transformation in case you don’t get my point on this subject.

The rings only unction as a timer, and the fact that you can remain as Sonic indefinitely in Sonic Unleashed in the PS3/360 version is proof that they weren''t involved in that boss battle.

Instead the rings were only used as the way to restore the health bar, which works just fine because I’ve said already that rings seem to be a way to canon wise “measure” the remaining chaos energy for used in the game.

Here are some quotes for SA2 about that situation where they talk about rings do:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/file/533012/38551

[02]: Shadow, how's your Ring energy? Before you're depleted, make sure to
switch places with me and collect more Rings.
[07]: Shadow, switch places with me! You're out of Rings!
[08]: Shadow, at this rate your Super Form won't last! Get back to the Colony!

[02]: Sonic, I'll collect the rings, why don't you give it a try?
[05]:
SONIC: Shadow! Take care of him! I'll collect the rings; keep him busy
for a while!

SHADOW: Done! I'll take care of him!

There are quite a few other quotes really about rings, I mean overall in case you didn’t know the canon definition for rings in the Sonic games like the chaos emeralds has never been really explained as far as I can tell

Boy it sure would be nice of Sega to actually give some background info on where these things came from and what they really are huh? But instead they would rather just keep saying that Sonic is some great hero (as shown in SA1, and StH3 the Echidna race left drawings saying that Sonic would be fighting Chaos, and Eggman in those games in said such zones like the finals of SA1 and StH3)

You lose rings=losing energy=your timer is cut because you do not have as much energy.

I think I need to point out what I mean by energy really fast with this thing:

In physics, energy is a scalar physical quantity that describes the amount of work that can be performed by a force, an attribute of objects and systems that is subject to a conservation law.

The reason I think Sonic is tired (and btw there is more than just one example showing him being tired after super forms) after Sonic Unleashed’s super sonic thing is because of that meaning I gave just now, and is further proof IMO that shows that he could be hurting himself in that form if he overexerts himself in the stuff.

Sonic runs across water

That wasn’t my point I was trying to make (Still, I haven’t seen him do it in any of the newer games lately, have you? Oh I wonder why they would never have something like that repeat itself in a new game?)

^_^

Also the max speed that Sonic has ever reached according to the various sources of canon info that we have on him is 3800 MPH from the Sonic Adventure DX instruction booklet.

Oh but that info is from an instruction booklet so who cares, it’s not like anyone in this thread takes info from instruction booklets seriously because of how bad the info usually is (I like to kid myself sometimes).

HOWEVER, from Sonic Unleashed’s actual GAMEPLAY the best speed you can reach is only 2000 MPH or so!

Which BTW going on that really more, 2000 (or 3800) MPH isn’t anywhere near fast enough to run on water, I mean to move on water looking at the realistic facts about it you would need speeds hitting 28,800 km/hour or 17,896 MPH!

But whatever, I really shouldn’t have to explain this little link that I want to post again already because this thread is talking about Metroid:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale

Chaos rings=/=Chaos emeralds.
The fact Metal Sonic could be harmed after using the Chaos rings obviously shows they were an inferior form.
you can hurt him with Vector and Charmy and Espio and they are not in tune with Chaos energy like Knuckles is.

The Chaos rings were made using the energy of the chaos emeralds though; they clearly are the same thing. Just arguably in different amounts and with a possible chance that the rings when they run out of energy, they won’t be able to revive themselves (which may be why they haven’t shown up again)

Oh and even though YOU THE PLAYER can choose not to use Knuckles for that fight in the game, canon wise as far as story goes; everyone in that game that can be played was there, including Knuckles.

Fact of the matter is, Sonic beats the hell out of Knuckles. Its part of why he faded as a rival, because Sonic is that much better.

Actually I’m pretty sure the reason why Knuckles “faded” as a rival was because “Original the Character” came around; who could do what Sonic can do…BUT BETTER or at least it seemed like that after a while (although now a day’s Sonic seems to be recovering from the attempt to make Shadow better than him as far as I can tell, and there has been more focus on Knuckles with various spin offs on top of that)

your IMO is meaningless because of allt he abilities that Sonic has when in comparison to knuckles.

So um…what does he have again as far as more abilities?

Knuckles is able to match Sonic in speed to a point, nothing like 2000 (“or 3800”) or so MPH that Sonic has of course (and even then Sonic has to be really kicking it to hit those speeds I bet based off what you have to do in Unleashed) “but what I mean is he can run on water just like Sonic can as seen in StH3.”

^_^

He can also glide, swim, scale various surfaces, and is by far stronger than Sonic; which of course I have to bring this up I mean he can somehow split the hydrogen in the air based off how strong he is:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale

He even has his own version of the “light speed attack” in case you forgot ^_^

great he can tell the master emerald to shut off the Chaos emerald's power. That doesn't mean anything.

He can tell the master emerald to shut off the chaos emerald’s power for Sonic only is what I’m saying. Knuckles can control how much energy the emeralds can admit off, as in build it down (or up I guess in case that ever comes around in a game where they don’t have to STOP THE CHAOS EMERALDS from going out of control, which really is the only time the master emerald seems to show up these days)

Let alone that even if it turned out that for some reason, which i emphasize has never been repeated, knuckles could knock Sonic out of super form, it wouldn't matter because Knuckles is not in this tierlist.

Yeah I know he isn’t here on this tier list (unless the TC wants to start including stickers/trophies into these debates), this is a separate argument that I feel like starting in this thread just for the heck of it.

What if's? =/= Canon

We seem to be just fine with using other what if situations for this thread (Paper Mario hell the Mario RPGs in general are largely seen as a spin off last I checked)

It isn't, because he isn't capable of recreating an entire world like the actual goddesses' of his games did.
He is powerful yes, he isn't anywhere near a god.

Let me add my view of kicking Ganondorf in the balls to your reply on this if you don’t mind ^_^

Only close to 1/3rd of “One all powerful god” is the key word that the king of murder should have really be using for this to talk about Ganondorf’s power, because:

A. Din only has 1/3rd of the requirements needed to make a real world according to the Zelda canon, I mean last I checked it took THREE “separate but equal” (and I’m happy I get to use that phrase at least once in this post lol) gods to make the world, not just ONE like tKoM seems to be saying.
B. The ToP =/= Din’s full power, really anyone who thinks the triforce is equal to all three of the gods needs to check their facts again

The fact that he was also reduced to a big floating fog head probably means he can die, but that he won't move on per sei and can thus be revived in a body.

Ganondorf is more like Sephiroth, or Castlevania Dracula when it comes to dying IMO, in that his influence or something like that has caused him to be revived several times.

I notice that is a very popular way to come back to life actually in fiction ^_^

(yes you can knock pig Ganon over with a bow)

Canon wise speaking that bow belonged to an older incarnation of Link according to the games (which only adds to my point that all of the Links and Zeldas should be counted as one character people)

If he was soooo incredible, he would have found Zelda long ago.

In all fairness he found Link, but only let him run around because he knew Zelda would expose herself at some point. I’m thinking maybe Zelda shouldn’t have showed herself at the Temple of Time ^_^, because for some reason Ganondorf just let “Shiek” help him whenever or he didn’t know about their meetings, that is a possibility as well. After all Zelda does say she is risking herself by exposing herself.

Sonic is harmed only when he meets a power equal to his own.
Which is basically the ability to rip apart reality.
Don't know about Mario.

And basically the ability to rip apart reality rests in the hands of like 90% of the characters in this thread (or at least what one of the meanings for something like "god power" would imply ^_^)

*rips apart reality and comes back*
Yeah Super sonic can do that.

Am I the only one who understands that LttP Link chose to go into the dark world willingly to save the souls of 7 sexy ladies?

I mean it’s not like he was even trapped or screwed going there:
A. He could resist the dark world’s power
B. He had a way out

The only thing he didn’t have before going there was an actual true WAY there! ^_^

Oh and it’s not like Ganondorf sent him there because he was winning as well

Link was kicking Agahnim’s ***, and if that priest/wizard died; Ganondorf would have LOST his free access to and from the light world!

no.

So, why do people think Samus couldn’t beat him again?

 

[Ganonsburg]

lol, Clinton. My point wasn't that Ganon's armor is super or anything, I was just pointing out that in order to abuse Ganondorf's weak spot, you'd have to hit it in that spot, which is surrounded by armor. No matter who you are, defensively armor>no armor. Unless you're that good at dodging. Not to mention, you're just speculating about Mario's defenses. This is true to their games, not your imagination.

Clinton, do you want to compare some of Mario's defenses to Ganon's? "Here we go!" Mario dies if he falls into lava and loses 1/8 of his life if he's hit by fire, at least (N64, I haven't played many others). Ganon gets hit across his whole body, 100% consumed by fire in WW, but he comes out without a single burn. Without armor, I might add. In fact, he's virtually naked with respect to exterior defenses. That's just one way, off the top of my head. I'll think of more later.

Ismar, my bad. Stupid misread of mine. Haha.

I'd argue that in this fight, Ganon/Ganondorf doesn't have the scar in his chest. If these characters are at the top of their powers, then Ganon shouldn't have the giant hole. Just saying.

Also, if Ganon were simply reduced to a head, I'd argue that he would do his fire head thing that he did in TP and harness his powers that way.

 

[_clinton]

Ganonsburg, I'm not speculating about Mario's defenses the RPGs clearly show that Mario has better armor than what you think of. Several pieces of armor that you can pick up in those games have Mario packing "blessed" armor as well as various strong suits of clothing, don't underestimate strong ballistic vests is all I'm saying.

Oh and even not factoring in Ganondorf's wound that we have been talking about, the armor that Ganondorf has sucks when you actually look at the stuff it is suppose to be (plate mail it seems)

And Mario doesn't always die if he falls into lava or losses up to 1/3rd of his health or so if hit by lava/fire. You are aware that the durability that Mario has varies between the games? Showing that the real amount of damage (if any) that Mario does take is based off the game play of it. Platform games are a by far different type of game than RPGs. Mario is a master of fire as what a certain game shows. Chances are he has some sort of heat resistance.

Oh and I like how you think Ganondorf taking that fire from the dragon means anything, did you ever notice how after that Ganondorf didn't chase after you despite you thinking it did nothing to him?

Anyway because I'm tired of this, I'm going to start a happy list of foes that Mario has taken a part of in beating:

Culex (SMRPG)-A being that can according to him: seems that he can consume matter and time. As a result of it he can see your past and future. He considers Mario this world's "strongest knight." Granted Mario beat him with the help of two other star children, a star warrior...and Mallow ^_^

Oh and I haven't even talked about the elemental control he has.

The Shadow Queen (TTYD)-She destroyed an ancient civilization and began a conquest on the entire world. The war itself would be described as a great cataclysm where "the earth shook and skies roared." Mario had help from his friends, Peach, and the crystal stars (which btw where made by the Shadow Queen herself and are an example of a power source that Mario could use BTW)

Dark Star/Fawful (PiT)-The Star is an ancient evil that attacked the mushroom Kingdom in the olden times, it sounds like an evil star warrior IMO. Said thing copied Bowser's DNA (a star child) for the final battle. However, before then it clearly was running from Mario and Luigi to get the DNA (so possibly that shows that the star was no match for them itself as it was). So the final battle required the efforts of 3 star children, Mario, Weegee, and Bowser.

Cackletta (M&L:SSS)-This witch wanted control over the bean star to (guess people ^_^) take over the world (I swear Mario must have a hand in saving the world at least once a week). She has lightning magic and as far as other magic attacks go she can transform into a pack of bats, and seemly **** up reality it seems (making holes in the ground). She refused to say dead after the 1st beating, and for the final parts of the game possessed Bowser, and for the 1st time the Mario bros. became lunch that I can think of. So Mario had Luigi's help to do this, but the final foe was Bowser + Cackletta really.

I'm too tired to want to continue chatting about foes right now, but please if you would be nice enough to, show me an example of Ganondorf doing anything that sounds as impressive as Culex if you would be nice enough to (for the record Samus can do something close to that except for the time eating thing).

 

[Diddy Kong]

IIRC, some of those bosses in Mario RPGs couldn't get hurt normally as well... Mario should be able to hurt Ganondorf imo.

 

[the king of murder]

It isn't, because he isn't capable of recreating an entire world like the actual goddesses' of his games did.
He is powerful yes, he isn't anywhere near a god.

That's something only gods can do. That's why they are called gods. Only gods have the ability to create worlds. Godly power=/=being a god.

Yet he didn't brainwash the King or the sage's descendants.
Gee, makes you think, what happened there?
Instead he killed the king and imprisoned the descendants.
If his manipulation was that strong, he would NEVER have needed to imprison the descendants or kill off the King.

He didn't brainwash the Sages because he wanted to break the seal of the wise men. In order to do that he banished them into the Dark World and imprisoned them.

And the King was just a hinderance that has to be eliminated. He killed him so he can rule the kingdom for himself or because he felt like it.

Zelda's soul was not in her body.
End story. Thats the reason he possessed it. Cause it was empty.
Otherwise, he could have just done it again.
Obviously he can't do it to a strong willed individual or an individua with their soul still inside.
Now you are just trying to make up abilities.

I'm not trying to making up abilitys. But the fact he has that power at all. It's not like anyone could do this.

Also he didn't do it to Zelda again because the game would be boring like that.

*possesses Zelda*
*got defeated and unpossess her*
*possesses her again*
*got defeated again*
Should we go on?

Why should he do something that didn't help him last time.

Actually your theory is incorrect.
Primarily because Zant acted like a fathful servant even before Ganondorf's influence upon him.
Madmen are very good at appearing sane, what caused him to crack was the fact that his plan's to retain power were falling apart.

Well it was a theory. I never said I was right.

Agahnim allowed himself to be possessed.

We don't know how Ganon possessed Agahnim. We just know that he possessed him.

Immortality=/= invincibility.
The fact that he was also reduced to a big floating fog head probably means he can die, but that he won't move on per sei and can thus be revived in a body.
The fact he needed to be reborn is enough to say his TP version can die.

Yeah, he can be killed. But only by something that repels evil itself. Otherwise he will always stay conscious.

Still did damage.

Are you kidding me? It distracted him not damaged him. lol.

when you are insane it tends to overrule pain, cause if you noticed, Link merely bounced his own magic attack at him when he possessed zelda, and that obviously hurt.
As did getting his *** knocked over by midna or getting shot in the face with a bow.
(yes you can knock pig Ganon over with a bow)

Ganondorf not showing pain through insanity, you say? That's an assumption.

He was harmed by all those things because you needed a way to beat him. Simply put: Gameplay mechanic. Now let's view this from another point.

Why does the Ordon Sword or Wood Sword or other items not even touch Ganondorf in TP?

Why couldn't the Master Sword harm him when it lost it's power to repel evil.

Why wasn't he harmed when a dragon gave him a full fire blast in the face?

Why is it not possible to finish him off with any other weapon but the Master Sword(not even Light Arrows)?

Not even that but it is stated in-games and cutscenes. If cutscene and gameplay are conflicting, the cutscene wins because it is closer to the story. Also it has been proven in gameplay as well since you cannot hurt him with other weapons.

Cutscene+prove>Gameplay mechanics

We do, he died.
If he didn't die, he would have come back.
Has he come back? no.
He is dead.
If he's not dead, he is sealed, which obviously means he can be defeated, and the fact he can't rip open dimensions means Sonic could warp him to an empty dimension and leave him there.

Funny. He has been sealed numerous times into a dimension , yet he always breaks the seal of the gods and comes back.

And yes, he came back numerous times.

Btw Ganondorf's teleport ability is not range limited. Like Zant he can teleport from very far away.

Then something happened that was not explained.
*shrugs*
Either Volvagia and Stallord did not truly die, or their essence was still left behind to be revived.

Ether way reviving people is meaningless.

You're bringing up assumptions again.

I am kinda confused, what part of the vid are you referring to exactly?

The part where Ganondord used his power to knock Midna unconscious.

It is around 3:40.

Which incarnation?
It isn't the same Ganondorf.

Yes it is. The creators themselves said that the Alttp Ganon is the same Ganon from OOT. The Ganondorf from WW and OOT are the same. That's undeniable. There's a good possibility that the TP Ganondorf is the same too. And I think that Ganonsburg made a really good point.

We don't. We just know that the timeline split. But at one point, they were the same person, with all the same powers. Because we can't know for sure when most of the games happen, we have to assume that Ganon has all of the powers he's demonstrated. And don't go grabbing just any timeline you find online. They're all theories, there's virtually no set-in-stone timeline that we have (....yet).

Sonic is harmed only when he meets a power equal to his own.
Which is basically the ability to rip apart reality.
Don't know about Mario.

Super Sonic can drown.
SS gets crushed.
Knuckles knocks him out of his super form.
Some bosses hurt him.
Dr. Eggman was able to drain all his energy despite him being invincible.

It's not that I don't believe that SS is invincible. It's just that Sonic has his flaws just like Ganondorf and other characters.

hell it hasn't shown itself to do anything except make him really durable.

Uhm..what?

*moves to the side as the beam misses*
or
*moves away*

or

*rips apart reality and comes back*

Yeah Super sonic can do that.

I don't believe Sonic can do that. But just in case you're right.

*Wishes with his entire Triforce to disable Sonic's power and that he can't move anymore*

*Ganondorf uses an uber powerful Warlock Punch or super powerful magic blast explosion *

It's super effective.

He was capable of being harmed in LTTP without a weak point.
He also suffered pain from being shot in the face with a light arrow.
Link also can't reach that high to hit him.

Master Sword and Silver Arrows. That's his weakness.

He died.
He had to be reborn.
his soul doesn't move on probably acuse oft he ToP or he is too strong willed.
Either way, he died, and has done so repeatedly but needs to be revived.
key word , DIED, many of his incarnations have died.

I think I have answered this already.