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Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

Ganonsburg

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I'm just saying. You're acting as if Ganon will be defeated in one hit by Mario, and when I counter it, you assume that I'm doing the same to Mario. I swear, you're either Galekill reincarnated or Galekill was the prototype you or something.

:034:
 

IsmaR

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Now that that is out of the way, I'll start with the guy who said Tanooki Suit Mario would be an obstacle. First of all, why do you assume she'll be running straight at him? As someone else said, she could run around in circles, or better yet, run into him before he can even react/use the Tanooki Suit. Furthermore, I'm not even sure that the Tanooki would count as an obstacle, since it's Mario himself, not just a specific block/wall. For all we know, she'll drag it along without doing any damage to him until it runs out. Secondly, by the time he even uses any time stopping moves/items, she could already have achieved a form of invincibility/have gotten enough distance between them to run out the clock, so to speak. And it doesn't matter if her chances of hitting Mario aren't that great, Mario's chances of hitting Samus are next to impossible with his start-up time to even get a dash in, let alone use an attack/item. Samus has better weaponry, better stamina, and better skills than Mario, thus can defeat him more easily than he could defeat her. Simple as that.

_clinton, the topic of her invincibility has been argued to death and back, and you keep coming back to your same arguments. Get over the fact that the character(s) you prefer won't always win, and that some characters have broken abilities. Samus' speed booster has been stated to give her invincibility and hasn't been said otherwise/contradicted thus far. On top of that, if other characters can get certain game-specific abilities for their overall selves(Adult Link getting both TP and OoT power-ups, Mario getting abilities/items from more than one game/subseries, Pokemon being able to learn TMs from different games(they were different in gens 1&2, unless that isn't allowed, which hasn't been brought up at all, really), and several other characters/examples), then why can't Samus get the SM Speed Booster, which is stated to give her invincibility? And this is battles about video game characters, not RL. Invincibility/invulnerability exist in their games, and this is them being true to their games/canon, no?

And just lol @ Bullet Bills moving at the speed of a real bullet. All my arguing is null if you truly believe that. Mario can only run up/jump off ofcertain walls(evidenced by him not being able to do so off of every single wall in each game), he can only run on top of water when he's Mini/Mushroom Mario(though Luigi was able to run on water in SM64DS), and his endurance is being compared to some weak "humans" or Toads. Comparing it to various things, he does indeed have super-human abilities/runs pretty fast/jumps pretty far, but there are better things. Sonic and Samus(and anyone else I'm missing who can run that fast) can jump canyons/mountains/pits/etc., and hell, they're restricted by the games. If Samus could use the Speed Booster somewhere that isn't inside/surrounded by ridiculously hard matter(which could arguably be a game mechanic, Nintendo doesn't want Samus to just run through room to room like nothing)/was out in the open, she'd do much crazier **** with the Speed Booster/High Jump/Space Jump/Screw Attack combo, and maybe even with her other gear(cling onto airplanes/jets with the Grapple Beam, run across water with the Speed Booster, blow obstacles out of her way with Super Missiles/the Hyper Beam/any other powerful weapon, and so on). It's all arguable, but given all the **** she can do, I'd think she'd come out on top. Mario's not a pushover, but he can't constantly fight a planet destroying machine forever.

Now with all that out of the way, make him face an even more broken opponent. Mario's tough, he could put up a fight, maybe win in some way(not saing it's impossible and all), but the odds are in the basically demon thief king God He-Man pig thing right now.
 

justaway12

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I'm starting it up again because I believe she can win. The Stop Watch has a four-second start-up lag, right? Samus is basically running in a huge circle around Mario while pelting him with her Beams o' doom. I doubt Mario can catch to her considering how fast she's running in the time given to him with the Stop Watch. And if he continually uses it, she has four seconds each start-up to run just a bit farther. He might never catch her.
Beams of doom don't matter if she can't hit him. =/

He has an extra for seconds while he is stopping time to, you know.

@IsmaR: She'll stop because he is an obsticale in the game too =/
 

the king of murder

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I'm just saying. You're acting as if Ganon will be defeated in one hit by Mario, and when I counter it, you assume that I'm doing the same to Mario. I swear, you're either Galekill reincarnated or Galekill was the prototype you or something.

:034:
Ignore him. That's what I do. He basically has nothing good to say for Ganon. EVERYTHING Ganon did in his game(like claiming the Triforce, almost destroyed the world, cursing entire dimensions and even ruling those dimensions) is just minor for clinton. And he ignored my points and always accused me of thinking that Ganon is better than the three goddesses even though I never said something like this or meant it.

And someone said that Mario has no tools of being invincible. That's not true. He has shown to have invincibility(like Starman or Boo Sheet). However those things are limited.
 

_clinton

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I'm just saying. You're acting as if Ganon will be defeated in one hit by Mario,
Last I checked I haven't said anything about Ganondorf being defeated in one hit by Mario actually; I'm merely saying that he is "destined" to lose because so far you haven't brought up anything Mario hasn't dealt with before with that huge list some of you have.

you assume that I'm doing the same to Mario.
That is because you guys (well I'm not sure 100% with you, I'm not always 100% paying attention to who is posting what at least here) have actually said it so far or heavily implied it in this thread, in case you haven't noticed that.

More than once as well actually; I mean on top of everything the worse so far IMO was acting like Ganondorf living from a dragon's fire was a big deal and you compared it to Mario's durability, despite the fact that the number of fire breathing things like that on Mario's list includes more than just Bowser (who pretty much beats that Dragon or is tied with it IMO anyway).

Samus has better weaponry, better stamina, and better skills than Mario, thus can defeat him more easily than he could defeat her. Simple as that.
Mario has the power of the heavens as part of his weaponry in case you've missed several of my posts pointing that out.

Mario also has a high stamina, in the third Mario and Luigi game, he could withstand (for the most part) a dark energy blast from the Dark Star when Luigi had a difficult time shaking it off. Hell, Mario has to at least have to have "protection" around Samus' varia suit at least (of cource, it is more than that if you look at some other examples he has, but I’ll get to them later) based off some of the things he can do in extreme temps (such as not be bothered by them).

Going on about Mario’s endurance, he has withstood attacks from a being that can consume time and space (Culex), when btw has Samus done that?

Oh and what makes you think she has better "skills" than Mario?

the topic of her invincibility has been argued to death and back, and you keep coming back to your same arguments.
Oh, you mean the arguments about it that make sense: such as there is a more logical reason for why Samus is plowing through foes when using the speed booster in game and why she might not get hurt because of it (even though there are things that can cause her damage), or how invincibility is a common thing put into platform games for helping the player?

Get over the fact that the character(s) you prefer won't always win, and that some characters have broken abilities.
Mario has potentially unlimited invincibility actually if you want to get into these debates about who has “a better invincibility” more, so how is that going to allow him to lose at all.

Oh and the main reason I’m pissed at the invincibility argument is because a lot of the characters that have it (Diddy Kong) are only getting wins because of it vs. clearly superior fighters (Falcon).

Plus another reason the argument is stupid is because it takes away from other skills the character might have that are clearly stronger/better than it. Stone/metal Kirby sucks for one thing compared to pretty much every other ability he has, but does anyone talk about them that much after talking about stone/metal?

Samus' speed booster has been stated to give her invincibility and hasn't been said otherwise/contradicted thus far.
Except for the fact that it has been talked about IN GAME (not just an instruction book) with what the speed booster really is and Adam in MF never thought for some reason that invincibility was an important fact to mention with the thing. So, why was that left out? Just wondering, it sure would seem to be important to talk about if you ask me.

Plus on top of that Metroid is trying to be a “realistic” game to a point (or at least as realistic as you can get with sci-fi, nukes don’t work that way is all I’m saying), there are actual explanations for why Samus’ things work, they have given plenty of “reasoning” for why Samus can do plenty of things, even her morph ball.

Why would a series that is being “realistic” to a point give for a way on how things work not give any reason at all for why Samus is “invincible” while using the speed booster?

then why can't Samus get the SM Speed Booster, which is stated to give her invincibility?
Oh and btw, the SM Speed Booster that you are talking about, only the instruction booklet says that it is invincibility. There were plenty of other official media sources for when Super Metroid came out that never brought up invincibility; and their stuff they were talking about came from the people that made it. The thing they got closer to talking about was supersonic speed.

Invincibility/invulnerability exist in their games
For helping the player only, even when the stuff is talked about in game, there still is a reason that it is not “real” invincibility (Kirby’s stone/metal, please find me an invincible Kirby enemy if you really want me to think that it is “real”).

But whatever, if you really think Invincibility/invulnerability is really in their game, I guess you must think bottomless pits are real as well, or for some reason are ok with Kirby dying in on. You must be a fan of buildings having bottomless pits and spike traps as well huh?

Sonic and Samus(and anyone else I'm missing who can run that fast) can jump canyons/mountains/pits/etc., and hell, they're restricted by the games.
Oh and you think Mario isn’t being restricted by the games?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4j7bwFDnoQ&feature=related
The guy who made this says it right away in his comments

Oh and I don’t see how Mario is unable to move fast through mountains and such as well, It seems more along the line that the player is really the one who is restricted when you see some of the Mario 64 runs, and you look at what Mario can do in various cutscenes for some other things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeRO1g9UT3A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POOMF_klGoY&feature=related

I'd think she'd come out on top. Mario's not a pushover, but he can't constantly fight a planet destroying machine forever.
So the whole Star Child thing and how they are universal influences keeps slipping past people in this thread huh?

but the odds are in the basically demon thief king God He-Man pig thing right now.
Yes, because your little list of Ganon abilities sounds so deadly to Mario, what with how he has dealt with all of them in some way or another >_>

Oh and Samus beats Ganondorf IMO, just saying overall.

EVERYTHING Ganon did in his game(like claiming the Triforce, almost destroyed the world, cursing entire dimensions and even ruling them) is just minor for clinton.
Maybe it is because Mario has dealt with things that have done that as well? Maybe you didn't notice that for some reason.

And he ignored my points and always accused me of thinking that Ganon is better than the three goddesses even though I never said something like this or meant it.
This is the quote you brought up:
he was so dangerous that the gods had to flood their entire world just to get rid of him and it didn't even worked.
I’ll admit that you are not directly saying that Ganondorf is better than the gods, but it felt to me that you were thinking the gods flooding the world was a big deal to the gods. So that was why I felt like pointing out that Bowser has pretty much bested his universe’s gods to the point where they BEGGED Mario for help in stopping him in PM (of course according to SMG there may be a stronger force than the star rod, because Bowser sure was a bigger threat in that game).

My point with my reply was that I have yet to see the gods of Zelda need any help in dealing with Ganondorf themselves, they either just watch as he fails, or after winning let him have his fun for a while before they get sick of hearing people ***** about Ganondorf being an ****er and take matters into their own hands, which is like nothing to them.

Oh and I like how you said I ignored your points though, that is the best part. I’m sorry if I point out that Bowser has beat the gods and Ganondorf hasn’t is ignoring your points, or how Mario has been sent to hell and made it back, and so on.

He has shown to have invincibility(like Starman or Boo Sheet). However those things are limited.
Yes: Starman, red essence, the ghost hat, the metal hat (same argument that I keep saying is BS for Kirby when it comes to the hats, but if you guys are going to use them I'm going to use them), and so on being able to be recharged an unlimited number of times sure is limited.

Of course, you are going to ignore this anyway because you think I'm ignoring you (fun fact I'm not, its just that Mario's list of impressive canon info beats Ganondorf's impressive canon info in more than just number, fun fact the universe being at risk is a larger threat than just a world threat) so I don't know why I even responded to you.
 

_clinton

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Re-charged? Where could he re-charge invincibilty? Sorry, I've just never actually heard of that.
Red Essence is "get a freebie" if you time the command at the right, so Mario potentially has unlimited Red Essence, and you are aware that as far as 2D games go, the 2nd Mario finds a star or whatever the power up is, there are others that will start to show up so that you can just cruse through the level if done right. Several games have this feature.

Um Clinton, how is Mario going to find a metal hat in a nuetral battlefield?
So, is this going to be the same argument for every other power up as well? (After all where are the Toad houses on this battlefield and such?) Mario has clearly been shown being able to hold items.
 

-Coco-

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Red Essence is "get a freebie" if you time the command at the right, so Mario potentially has unlimited Red Essence.
This is actually incorrect getting a freebie is completely random as shown by the GFAQS boards


geno_16
Posted 9/5/2008 6:33:53 PM
Freebies are random, someone here (I forget who exactly, Super Jumper Mario2 I think) already tested it and determined that it determines whether you get a freebie or not when you are in the item menu, before you even get the chance to "time" it.


also that jump good reference you made a while ago is a reference to samurai jack, I can has cookie?
 

BSP

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So, is this going to be the same argument for every other power up as well? (After all where are the Toad houses on this battlefield and such?) Mario has clearly been shown being able to hold items.
No. I've actually seen Mario hold the other items, but when you get a metal cap (or any of them), you had to use it right then, or has that been considered a game mech? If so, my bad.
 

PowerBomb

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Water has surface tension, it's why bugs that can skit along the surface of the water don't sink. Mind you, mini-Mario is... mini, as are the bugs.

Mario can't hold the iron hat. Unless you have proof of that or something, he uses the iron hat automatically when he picks it up.

justaway12 said:
Beams of doom don't matter if she can't hit him. =/

He has an extra for seconds while he is stopping time to, you know.

@IsmaR: She'll stop because he is an obsticale in the game too =/
Extra four seconds for what? I don't get this. She can hit him, why wouldn't she be able to? The Stop Watch has a four second lag time, right? She can take advantage of that.
 

Samochan

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All the while, what the f can mario do to invincible Samus? >_> I mean, if she's frozen in time, so is her invincibility state lol. She can just spam speed booster and hyper mode till mario gets fed up of using stop watch or till she takes advantage of those 4 seconds lag.

And who knows, invincible things are usually immune to stuff, such like hyper mode samus. She can't take damage from anything else besides phazon. Why would time stop work at her then if it doesn't work on certain bosses that are immune to it's effects? Does stop watch work on star rod bowser for example? I don't think so.

And stop watch is basically Mario's best bet in this matchup, otherwise he has no hope in catching or even harming Samus. And if he does, the damage will be miniscule because of her suit and defences (unless somethign really heavy hitting, which I don't think will even hit) and he'd be left totally open for some real damage samus can dish *cough hyper beam phazon cough*.
 

_clinton

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also that jump good reference you made a while ago is a reference to samurai jack, I can has cookie?
K, I knew someone would get it or bring it up at some point:

Also, it even comes with this free mouse that has been bugging me!

Mario can't hold the iron hat. Unless you have proof of that or something, he uses the iron hat automatically when he picks it up.
So we are on purpose limiting Mario's items just because they come out of blocks, which could really just be a game mech for that game, thrown onto the player to prevent free use of items whenever they want, because Mario has been seen clearly to be able to use items whenever he wants.

All the while, what the f can mario do to invincible Samus? >_> I mean, if she's frozen in time, so is her invincibility state lol. She can just spam speed booster and hyper mode till mario gets fed up of using stop watch or till she takes advantage of those 4 seconds lag.
Mario's Invincibility State has been shown to out power other invincibility states actually. Of course there are several reasons why invincibility talk should be dropped, and that is one of them.
 

justaway12

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All the while, what the f can mario do to invincible Samus? >_> I mean, if she's frozen in time, so is her invincibility state lol. She can just spam speed booster and hyper mode till mario gets fed up of using stop watch or till she takes advantage of those 4 seconds lag.

And who knows, invincible things are usually immune to stuff, such like hyper mode samus. She can't take damage from anything else besides phazon. Why would time stop work at her then if it doesn't work on certain bosses that are immune to it's effects? Does stop watch work on star rod bowser for example? I don't think so.

And stop watch is basically Mario's best bet in this matchup, otherwise he has no hope in catching or even harming Samus. And if he does, the damage will be miniscule because of her suit and defences (unless somethign really heavy hitting, which I don't think will even hit) and he'd be left totally open for some real damage samus can dish *cough hyper beam phazon cough*.
Again, his badges won't make her hit hard or that often.
His tanooki is will act as an obsticle.
Immortality =/= omnipotency
This whole conversation feel very deja vu-y~ I wonder why?
 

the king of murder

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so I don't know why I even responded to you.
For the sake of arguing of course. Not going to respond to your other posts because I'm done arguing with you. >_>.

As for the Samus vs Mario I say it's 55:45 in Samus favor or maybe still a tie.

Samus has powerful weapons(Sonic Boom, Dark/Sunburst, Hyperbeam) combined with incredible speed and invinciblity(Speed Booster and Hyper Mode) and tons of other options like freezing, burning ect.. Seriously it's not even funny anymore.

Still Mario has shown to give everyone a lot of trouble. He is quite strong, fast and has powerful weapons himself like Fire Burst, Fire Bomb, Ice Storm, Ultra Hammer. He has good upgrades like Mega Mushroom, Ice Flower, Cape Feather and invincibility options like Starman or Boo Sheet and time freezing ability like Stop Watch.

Ack this one gives me a headache. I will think for a while.Btw Ganon wins.
 

Diddy Kong

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Can Ganondorf win this already? Apperantly, nothing beats him anyway...
 

_clinton

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Not going to respond to your other posts because I'm done arguing with you. >_>.
Ah, is it because I think Ganondorf's list of things is lackluster compared to a lot of other characters here and I've given a reason as to why I think that.

Because it certainly seems that way.
 

_clinton

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Last I checked Samus power and Mario's power had potential universal threats (god at the end of SMG the universe had to start over for one, and Samus says she is a universal power somehow), what was Ganondorf's again?
 

PowerBomb

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Again, his badges won't make her hit hard or that often.
His tanooki is will act as an obsticle.
Immortality =/= omnipotency
This whole conversation feel very deja vu-y~ I wonder why?
So? My whole point is that Mario gets hurt regardless. If Samus can hurt him but he can't hurt her, then why doesn't she win?
 

DoonKoon

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wth guys.

In gamefaq battles Sonic Is beating Ganondorf in semi finals! That thing's more of a fanbass than anything else!
 

PowerBomb

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justaway12, what makes you think Mario will even reach her? Remember, Samus is running extremely fast (and that is a gross understatement).
 

justaway12

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I do belive I saw something that gave Mario super speed, there was also a time he jumped over a mountain quickly, but, as it's past midnight over here, I shall not bother to research...tonight anyway.
 

WhatIsRaizen?

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Vs.


Current Match-Up:
THE BOUNTY HUNTER Vs. THE PSYCHIC CHILD

Samus Vs. Ness

:samus2: Vs. :ness2:

Round 6, Match 2.

Overall Results

Wins +6:

:ganondorf:

Wins +5:

:samus2:

Wins +4:

:ike:, :fox:, :ness2:

Wins +3:



Wins +2:

:bowser2:, :sonic:, :peach:, :luigi2:, :wolf:, :toonlink:, :younglinkmelee:

Wins +1:

:diddy:, :mewtwo:, :lucas:, :snake:, :metaknight:, :pt:, :mario2:

Neutral:

:lucario:, :pikachu:, :pichu:

Loss -1:

:wario:, :dk2:, :kirby2:, :pit:, :roymelee:, :link2:, :falco:

Loss -2:

:marth:, :zerosuitsamus:, :jigglypuff:, :falcon:

Loss -3:

:zelda:, :dedede:

Loss -4:

:gw:, :yoshi2:

Loss -5:

:olimar:

Loss -6:

:rob:, :popo:

Well.. came to a conclusion.
 

_clinton

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So, what will win? An psychic blast that is super effective vs. everything or a so called dash/mode that protects from everything for no real reason other than the side saying it is?
 

Kewkky

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Samus uses hyper mode as soon as the match starts for quick invincibility while picking up speed for her Speed Booster, while shooting at Ness with rapid-fire defense-piercing plasma beams, then switches momentarily to phazon beams while she finishes activating her Speed Booster. 2-3 seconds into the match and Samus is now completely invincible, drops her hyper mode, and keeps spamming a barrage of beams on Ness while invincible... She could even equip her Imperialist and shoot Ness constantly, as well as her wide array of status-inducing weapons like entanglers, to stop Ness in his tracts and make her targeting easier. She also has her darkburst for an easy end to the match, if Ness is ever caught frozen or encased.

She's immune to PK Flash due to her armor's inherent defenses, where it's obvious Samus is immune to mind control (Ing's failed possessions), bright flashes (explosions or thermal visor while looking at fire), loud noises (large-scale explosions such as self-destructing stations and planets), poisonous substances (infectious phazon only harms her whenever she comes in contact with it, except in MP3 where she heals by touching it... And poison never affects her), high temperatures (varia suit), atmospheric and space-time irregulations (gravity suit), and who knows what else...


What can Ness do against all of this?



PS: Samus wins against Mario... She can outrun Mario's 4-second startup by an ENOOOORMOUS distance, and stopwatches don't last long enough for Mario to catch her. Running up walls, jumping over tall obstacles, landing without taking damage in certain games? Have you guys ever heard of parkour and how it's slightly similar to Mario's stunts? I hardly believe Mario has to go super fast to run up a wall. Just look at this!

So much sporadic stopping, stopwatch-activating, and accelerating over and over again will slow him down considerably. Much less when you figure out that stopping time locks Samus in her current state, meaning that she's still invincible when time's stopped. If Stopwatch takes 4 seconds to start up, once Samus hits Tanooki Mario and stops, she can activate Hyper Mode, start running, and in 2-3 seconds have her invincibility up again and be well on her way to escaping Mario's reach yet again. Not to mention she has a SNIPING WEAPON THAT TRAVELS AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT (imperialist), meaning that she can play the 'keep away' game and snipe Mario to death from anywhere at all. She can afford to miss, since she's a great distance away, and everytime Mario starts activating a stopwatch, she can activate her speed booster from the safety of miles away, keeping her lead intact.
 

IsmaR

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I meant that for this MU, Raizen. lol. It's more trying to convince you not to let this go on forever over the same arguments over and over again.

Btw _clinton, it's a psychic blast, not an psychic.
 
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