Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[Diddy Kong]

Can you post a link to this manga please? Or even better, pictures in which these things happen?

Also, why can't Diddy have Going Bananas? Sure, you have to unlock Diddy mode in King of Swing but that doesn't justify Diddy not having it, especially when he's also there in the multiplayer mode. And yes, there is some sort of canon to Going Bananas, that's the explanation you get from Cranky when you begin the game. Dunno what he said about it though...

 

[Samochan]

Can you post a link to this manga please? Or even better, pictures in which these things happen?

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/pok_mon_adventures/

 

[the king of murder]

Diddy I know that this is not the final tier list. I just think how funny it is because ALink was always described as the stronger one. The Meta Knight match-up is a good example. TLink was able to beat MK even with Halberd at his disposal but at the same time ALink couldn't do **** against MK.

And clinton I think I don't need to argue anymore. I know what you want to say. We both have our opinions about how Pokemon should work.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

So, does everyone agree with Falcon here?

 

[the king of murder]

Yes, Falcon wins unless Link has something to stop Blue Falcon or Falcon Flyer.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Alright.

The long awaited ROUND 6 is here ladies and gentleman.

WINNERS ROUND 6

The Battle of the Deadliest..

Vs.

Current Match-Up:
THE KING OF DARKNESS Vs. THE SUPER BROTHER

Ganon Vs. Mario

Vs.

Round 6, Match 1.

Mario gave Samus loads of trouble... will he do the same to Ganon?

Overall Results

Wins +5:



Wins +4:

, , ,

Wins +3:



Wins +2:

, , , , , ,

Wins +1:

, :mewtwo:, , , ,

Neutral:

, , ichu:

Loss -1:

, , , , , ,

Loss -2:

, , ,

Loss -3:

,

Loss -4:

,

Loss -5:



Loss -6:

,

 

[the king of murder]

This is an interesting fight. But what can Mario do against Ganon? Ganon is completely invincible to Mario's assaults. But I have a feeling this MU needs a little disscussion since I never thought Mario could give Samus(even with speed booster) such trouble. We should wait for Mario supporters.

Anyway Ganon has so much more than just invincibility. I should make a list of Ganon's power when I have time to and believe me it's a very, very long list.

Btw I was hoping that Ganon would be paired up with Samus for epicness. We have to wait I guess.

 

[IsmaR]

Ganondorf is overrated IMO. But I'm leaning towards him beating Mario.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Ganon's said to be the best with or without invicibiltiy o_0

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I'll wait for a bit of discussion to start before I say anything.

 

[DoonKoon]

ganon too good

 

[_clinton]

Also, why can't Diddy have Going Bananas? Sure, you have to unlock Diddy mode in King of Swing but that doesn't justify Diddy not having it,

I still can’t see why you think Diddy’s mode should count…other than the fact that you are just trying to make him soundbetter than he is…

Diddy’s mode doesn’t have any story, or added purpose for the mode other than a REPLAY of the same game’s story with a different character for some different taste…but is harder because Diddy has some extras on to make the game harder for an experienced player (like you don’t find spare bananas…you have to kill foes to get your naners)

especially when he's also there in the multiplayer mode.

Yes…because there is so much data that you can get from multiplayer mode…

I guess you think Bubbles is an official member of the DK canon as well? Considering how he/she is a playable character in that game’s multiplayer mode…

Multiplayer never officially happened as far as canon goes in games IMO…it’s just a big what if thing…sort of like how Smash Brothers is like that…if you forget that things like Brawl have a story somewhat…granted it is in a world of trophies….as in not real itself…but I still feel things like ROB and G&W count for that…just none of the others really do…the characters pretty much could have been anything else and it wouldn’t have mattered as far the story goes…but G&W/ROB have a large part of that thing

Anyway…going on Canon wise with my point about multiplayer…you can’t tell me that things like the hunters in Metroid Prime Hunters are on an even level with Samus…

When for the single player game…you know…the canon part that actually has a story somewhat (as in not just an extra like the multiplayer mode)…I mean…there are questions as to if they even lived or not according to a description I read for the ending (I’ve never seen it myself…due to laziness)

And yes, there is some sort of canon to Going Bananas, that's the explanation you get from Cranky when you begin the game. Dunno what he said about it though...

The explanation from Cranky Kong consists pretty much of these words “tap this button (as in they have broken the 4th wall) to use this when you (the player) are in danger…it will cost you 20 bananas to use”

Not word for word of course…

In game explanations on how to do things or talking about how things work are again (in case you missed that last part of my other post and how I brought up how a bird or something teaches Lucas the combo system for the game) a bad example of canon power…I guess you think “timed hits” from Mario RPG are canon as well huh…you know…what with how creatures are just standing there waiting to get beat up?

I bet you think food healing people is a real example of how things are suppose to work as well huh (just smacking how DK can eat 10 bananas and somehow recover from after being lit on fire…or how food somehow heals in games all the time anyway)

And clinton I think I don't need to argue anymore. I know what you want to say. We both have our opinions about how Pokemon should work.

Yes...because things like Sephiroth's Super Nova in FF7 really happen when he is casts that power…even though he can use it more than one time for that fight…I guess we have more than one sun huh in our system?

And pokemon ranging from vendor trash things like Bidoof can somehow control the elements and flood the battlefield or such that it is on and EVERYTHING will be just fine even after the battle…hell RIGHT after the move…

Your way of how Pokemon should work is so much better…than what the games (OUTSIDE of the battles anyway with regard to things like Surf), anime, and manga say they work…

Ganon's said to be the best with or without invicibiltiy o_0

Dude…he doesn’t even have that so called invincibility…notice how things can still hurt him?

But he’ll “win” anyway again because of people thinking stuff like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard
Is a real good argument to keep barking around…

Because Ganondorf’s supporters seem to forget things like with how Mario (and like 90% of the other characters in this thread also have) has god power at his disposal as well and all that anyway…but only because they say this can hurt him only (which is again a very large use of double standards…when the stuff that hurts him anyway is the stuff 90% of the characters have use of anyway)

And said stuff is by far the stuff that makes him the most overrated character in this thread…even though he has a 0-9 or so losing record and said record is growing all the time…

 

[PowerBomb]

All right, let's see:

Does Mario have a weapon that can be used to combat the forces of darkness?

If so, does it deal enough damage to be a threat to Ganondorf?

If so, can Mario hit Ganondorf with it?

If so, can Ganondorf fall back on anything to prevent this from happening?

EDITwhatever: I still don't see how Mario tied with Samus, especially since he has no invincibility. He doesn't, right?

 

[ShadowLink84]

I find this kinda silly that basically, the reason Ganondorf is winning matches, isnt cause he is actually beating up the individual, its just cause he likes to take it in the *** and not pass out in the process.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Diddy I know that this is not the final tier list. I just think how funny it is because ALink was always described as the stronger one. The Meta Knight match-up is a good example. TLink was able to beat MK even with Halberd at his disposal but at the same time ALink couldn't do **** against MK.

Ok that's true. But now about those Links...

How did Toon Link actually beat MetaKnight then? The Halbert is huge, Ice and Fire Arrows really won't do ****. And if they would, OoT Link has them to. If give Toon Link the Wind Waker abilities to create storms (which is really only warping in his game, nothing else) shouldn't Link be able to use the Song of Storms from the Ocarina as well?

All Links have the same abilities really. I think it's a shame we don't have a seperate Twilight Princess Link on the list, considering he's a total different character altoghter really.

Anyways, Link should always be on about the same place as the others. And if Toon Link beats MetaKnight, Link could as well.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/pok_mon_adventures/

Ok thanks. I've checked it out a little just now, but couldn't really find anything specific about the Pokemon characters on this list. But it seems good enough.

Now match up related, Ganondorf should win. But maybe it's a draw. Are we still really sticking to Ganondorf only being able to get hurt by Master Sword & Light Arrows? Because I think if he'd get beaten to a point he can't get up or do anything anymore, that should count as a loss as well. Characters don't exactly have to fight to death to declare a winner. However, vs Ganon it would maybe be a wise choice to kill him if you could cause he's a wicked murderer but yeah..

 

[DoonKoon]

I find this kinda silly that basically, the reason Ganondorf is winning matches, isnt cause he is actually beating up the individual, its just cause he likes to take it in the *** and not pass out in the process.

whats that suppose to mean?

ohhh someones jealous

 

[ShadowLink84]

whats that suppose to mean?

ohhh someones jealous

Basically, the reason Ganondorf wins, is because apparently, knocking him out isn't good enough.

 

[DoonKoon]

Basically, the reason Ganondorf wins, is because apparently, knocking him out isn't good enough.

So? Do you mean his invincibility? Even then, Ganon's ability allows that, it's his own. And besides, he's the best even without immorality and invincibility.

 

[ShadowLink84]

So? Do you mean his invincibility? Even then, Ganon's ability allows that, it's his own. And besides, he's the best even without immorality and invincibility.

Currently, the only arguments that ar standing in regards to Ganondorf are.

"do they have a holy weapon"
If yes. He loses.

If no, he wins.

Every game says"you cant beat him without the master sword."

For Sonic, hasn't every single boss been said to be "only defeated by the power of the chaos emeralds."
Which Sonic does so by that logic, wouldn't that mean only a being with the same power of chaos emeralds would beat Sonic?

You see what I mean right?

 

[IsmaR]

Ganondorf is invulnerable to everything that you can find in the Zelda world/universe, save for usually the Master Sword and Light/Silver arrows and possibly the goddesses power. Way I see it, it's impossible to tell if he'd be invulnerable to everything from every other universe. But of course people will argue because _____ can survive/can only be killed by _____, they can't be killed/can't be hurt by anything else. What is proven is that Ganondorf can survive being stabbed, being unconscious in a castle as it collapses, being sent to another world/dimension(I still don't see how he'd get out, though, he required help getting out of the Twili's world), being burned by a dragon's fire, taking on armies of mortals, and taking an ***-whoopin' repeatedly by a fairy kid.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah but still... he's been beaten with other swords and weapons as well iirc.

 

[_clinton]

Does Mario have a weapon that can be used to combat the forces of darkness?

Yeah…as do like 90% of the characters in case you keep thinking that somehow Ganondorf > god power for some reason…

If so, does it deal enough damage to be a threat to Ganondorf?

I like how you think something like Bowser isn’t a threat…because unlike Ganondorf…Bowser HAS been a threat to the Mario world gods…because unlike Mario…Bowser is using his star power (YI DS) that he was born with for evil (and on top of that…he seemly isn’t aware that he has it)

Oh and besides Bowser…Mario’s resume is packed full of evil beings and such that he has beat…

EDITwhatever: I still don't see how Mario tied with Samus, especially since he has no invincibility. He doesn't, right?

I still love how you think Samus running really fast is invincibility…despite there being like 50 other reasons for explaining it as something else/pointing out the horrible logic behind it…such as a logical definition of what Samus is really doing when she is using the speed booster (most obstacles/things…just from what I know…shouldn’t be able to take a tackle going at 300+ m/s…especially when in truth…the amount of force needed to do any real harm to things IRL isn’t even 1/4th of the energy that would be produced from moving at that speed)

Oh and as far as “invincibility” goes…Power stars/insert Mario invincibility item here because the series is full of them sort of beat Samus running fast…you know…because they also pump in things like unlimited recharge time and Mario being able to hold whatever number of them you can get…

Basically, the reason Ganondorf wins, is because apparently, knocking him out isn't good enough.

Yeah and this thread keeps forgetting that the Zelda series isn't the only series out there that has the word "god power" in it...or if they are aware of it…than it is just this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard

Because I think it is kind of stupid for you people to think Ganondorf wouldn’t be harmed more than just a little bit by characters packing powers that can screw up worlds (read 90% of the characters here)

Way I see it, it's impossible to tell if he'd be invulnerable to everything from every other universe. But of course people will argue because _____ can survive/can only be killed by _____, they can't be killed/can't be hurt by anything else.

Which again…when people are doing character can only be killed by ____ (found in said universe only on top of that) they are doing this for an argument:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard

It’s stupid to think Ganondorf would be able to handle fighting things that have the power to also **** the universe up as well…as in they don’t just stop at world destroying power like he does (even then…it takes a lot of time for him).

 

[DoonKoon]

Clinton... try arguing Ganon with no invincibility or unvulnerability.. he'd still beat Mario.. and win this thread..

 

[the king of murder]

I knew someone would say that invincibility is Ganon's only option to win. Those people don't know Ganon good enough. Alright here is a list of his power:

The power and strength of a god
(OOT: Destroying castles with ease, when he punched the ground it created an earthquake that destroyed parts of the the floor and heavily damaged Link if the Earthquake hits him, lifting two heavy swords and destroying heavy pillars with ease which Link could not do with his powerful weapons.

WW: Knocking Link and Zelda unconscious with one slap everytime, he was so dangerous that the gods had to flood their entire world just to get rid of him and it didn't even worked.

TP: Destroyed a castle with a big explosion, broke free from heavy chains with ease, killed a sage with one punch, defeated and almost killed Midna who has great power of the Fused Shadows

Alttp: Destroyed parts of the Pyramids, created earthquakes that destroyed parts of the floors, ruled the Sacred Realm like a god.)

Teleportation(TP, OOT, FSA, OoA/OoS, Alttp)

Powerful magic with various elements like dark, lightning and fire to attack and do other things (Every game)

Flight(Oot, WW, Alttp)

Possession(Listen up! He did this more than just one time. TP: Zelda and Zant, Alttp: Agahnim)

Immortality(Why does he always return in almost every game?)

Invincibility to everything but the Master Sword, Light/Silver Arrows (Alttp, TP, WW, OOT Last battle)

Powerful swords together with good swordsmans skill(OOT, WW, TP)

Powerful trident that can attack with powerful magic and banish others into the Dark World (FSA, OoS/OoA, Alttp, OOT)

The Power to teleport other creatures against their will even without his trident(WW: Teleporting Zelda away, OOT, Alttp: He did this like 8 times. He banished Link, Zelda and the other Sages into the Dark World.

He can creat small earthquakes to stun the enemy or damage them(OOT, Attp, OoA/OoS: He does an earthquake to stun you before he shoots his powerful blast at you that does a lot of damage)

The power to revive even ancient creatures (OOT: Volvagia, WW: Bosses, TP Stallord)

Telepathy (WW, OOT)

Psychokinesis (OOT: Levitating a castle, levitating Zelda from far away, TP: Knocking out Link and Midna with this power)

Curses and manipulation(Every game but I will list some examples. OOT: Giving Deku Tree the death curse, Alttp: Turning Link into a helpless bunny, TP: Turning Link into a wolf and Midna into an imp.

Transform into a demon beast that is even more deadly and powerful(Every game except WW)

The Power to trap the enemy into a crystal so they can't move(OOT: Zelda, Alttp: all sages+Zelda)

Ganon has his horse so he doesn't have to run lol(TP,OOT)

Invisibility(The very first Zelda game)

He's very durable and has a very strong will that can't be breaked(He got stabbed in the chest at least 2times, got stabbed several times in the head, got paralyzed by the Light Arrows, tanked several blasts, Link, Zelda and Sages combined their attack to keep Ganon down and he still kept fighting. The list could go on.)

Intelligence(Well if he is not in his insane mode)

The Power to cast Barriers(Every game)

Summon Ghost Horsemens for attacking(TP)

Secret Darkness Technique. That means he is invulnerable to everything even the Master Sword and Silver Arrows as long there is no light source. (Alttp)

He has an armor for better defense(TP)

He has good dodging skills(WW: He blocks all of TLinks and Zeldas attacks unless you do the
Light Arrow deflecting tactic, TP: Good at blocking).

Perfect offense options
Perfect defense options

There you can see it. He has obviously more than just being invincible. And that's not everything. He has even more abilitys that I wont list now.

 

[IsmaR]

I can't really comment at this very instant to the post above. I'll edit in my thoughts slowly, whenever this vid finishes loading.

Edit: May have missed some things, but I got the gist of what I wanted to say. Not bothering to color it, either.

I knew someone would say that invincibility is Ganon's only option to win. Those people don't know Ganon good enough. Alright here is a list of his power:

For starters, it's well enough. And you don't know him as much as you think you do.

The power and strength of a god
(OOT: Destroying castles with ease, when he punched the ground it created an earthquake that destroyed parts of the the floor and heavily damaged Link if the Earthquake hits him, lifting two heavy swords and destroying heavy pillars with ease which Link could not do with his powerful weapons.

How can it be an earthquake if they're on the top of a castle? And it doesn't do THAT much damage, especially if Link has the final Great Fairy's defense boost. Going by how much damage something does isn't exactly releative to its power, either. You could get killed by the chickens in that game faster than most bosses. Does that make the chickens more powerful?

WW: Knocking Link and Zelda unconscious with one slap everytime, he was so dangerous that the gods had to flood their entire world just to get rid of him and it didn't even worked.

He punched out two little kids. That's not exactly the most compelling argument(something with the power to make earthquakes, as you said, can't kill two little kids in one hit?)

The gods flooded the whole kingdom in hopes of sealing away the land Ganon made his own.

TP: Destroyed a castle with a big explosion, broke free from heavy chains with ease, killed a sage with one punch, defeated and almost killed Midna who has great power of the Fused Shadows

The explosion was from him colliding, not just from his power. Breaking from 'heavy chains' isn't a great measure of strength, and the sages could be as easy to kill as a regular human. And Ganondorf said it himself, the Triforce > Midna's peoples' magic.

Alttp: Destroyed parts of the Pyramids, created earthquakes that destroyed parts of the floors, ruled the Sacred Realm like a god.)

Creating 'earthquakes' that make tiles fall doesn't make you god, for the 2nd time. And notice that despite him always ruling like a god, he always gets beaten. Could be just the game mechanics, but pointing it out.

Teleportation(TP, OOT, FSA, OoA/OoS, Alttp)

Limited range, save for TP. If he could teleport such long distances, why did he have to fly to the Pyramid in LttP? And where does he teleport at all in OoT?

Powerful magic with various elements like dark, lightning and fire to attack and do other things (Every game)

That's a given. But said elements could negatively effect him, no? Would a lightning attack from Ganondorf kill a ground type from Pokemon? Would a fire/heat based attack do less damage to Samus in her Varia Suit?

Flight(Oot, WW, Alttp)

Levitation for the first two, not flight. Shape shifting in to a bat would obviously give you flight.

Possession(Listen up! He did this more than just one time. TP: Zelda and Zant, Alttp: Agahnim)

...I do recall him saying somewhere in the game that Agahnim was his alter-ego. Even if he did possess them, it's not exactly like they had the power to resist him.

Immortality(Why does he always return in almost every game?)

Because Ganon is to Zelda as Bowser is to Mario? Ganon himself doesn't have immortality, the Triforce of Power gives it to him.

Invincibility to everything but the Master Sword, Light/Silver Arrows (Alttp, TP, WW, OOT Last battle)

If he were invincible, he would not be hurt by anything and would be unstoppable. You can hurt him with any weapon, for example, in OoT, but you can only finish him with the Master Sword. If he were truly invincible, his own magic blasts hit back to him wouldn't hurt him either.

Powerful swords together with good swordsmans skill(OOT, WW, TP)

Define powerful.

Powerful trident that can attack with powerful magic and banish others into the Dark World (FSA, OoS/OoA, Alttp, OOT)

He wasn't shown to have his trident at all in OoT, and note that he banished one of his own creations. Por que he could not have just banished Link in the final battle?

The Power to teleport other creatures against their will even without his trident(WW: Teleporting Zelda away, OOT, Alttp: He did this like 8 times. He banished Link, Zelda and the other Sages into the Dark World.

He didn't teleport Zelda away. That was an illusion to lure Link into his trap <_< He had to do a ritual to banish people in LttP.

He can creat small earthquakes to stun the enemy or damage them(OOT, Attp, OoA/OoS: He does an earthquake to stun you before he shoots his powerful blast at you that does a lot of damage)

Again with the earthquakes...

The power to revive even ancient creatures (OOT: Volvagia, WW: Bosses, TP Stallord)

Zant did the latter, but k.

Telepathy (WW, OOT)

K.

Psychokinesis (OOT: Levitating a castle, levitating Zelda from far away, TP: Knocking out Link and Midna with this power)

None of that is necessarily kinesis. Could all be magic, the sheer power of the Triforce, possession, etc.

Curses and manipulation(Every game but I will list some examples. OOT: Giving Deku Tree the death curse, Alttp: Turning Link into a helpless bunny, TP: Turning Link into a wolf and Midna into an imp.

He put a curse on an immobile enemy, he didn't turn Link into the bunny indefinitely, and he didn't turn Link into the wolf, the dark crystals found in the Twili's world did. Zant just implanted one onto his forehead.

Transform into a demon beast that is even more deadly and powerful(Every game except WW)

Would anyone let him transform in the first place in a real fight?

The Power to trap the enemy into a crystal so they can't move(OOT: Zelda, Alttp: all sages+Zelda)

K.

Ganon has his horse so he doesn't have to run lol(TP,OOT)

He can be knocked off the horse lol

Invisibility(The very first Zelda game)

He totally can't be seen or heard or smelled by any means at all when invisible, especially not items that reveal invisible things.

He's very durable and has a very strong will that can't be breaked(He got stabbed in the chest at least 2times, got stabbed several times in the head, got paralyzed by the Light Arrows, tanked several blasts, Link, Zelda and Sages combined their attack to keep Ganon down and he still kept fighting. The list could go on.)

As I mentioned before, all things that would be apparently devastating in the Zelda universe. But fine. He gets stunned, not paralyzed btw.

Intelligence(Well if he is not in his insane mode)

lol

The Power to cast Barriers(Every game)

Barriers that have ways to be destroyed/gotten around.

Summon Ghost Horsemens for attacking(TP)

Fairly easy to defeat, and not everybody would let him onto his horse in the first place.

Secret Darkness Technique. That means he is invulnerable to everything even the Master Sword and Silver Arrows as long there is no light source. (Alttp)

Because no one can create artificial light.

He has an armor for better defense(TP)

lol

He has good dodging skills(WW: He blocks all of TLinks and Zeldas attacks unless you do the
Light Arrow deflecting tactic, TP: Good at blocking).

"Good dodging skills" vary from game to game, series to series, thing to thing, etc. Point is that his defenses can be broken.

Perfect offense options
Perfect defense options

By no means are they perfect.

There you can see it. He has obviously more than just being invincible. And that's not everything. He has even more abilitys that I wont list now.

I'm listening to good arguments. I believe Ganondorf can win pretty much every MU. You, however, need to stop trying. I'm tempted to not bother replying to you anymore.

 

[_clinton]

I knew someone would say that invincibility is Ganon's only option to win. Those people don't know Ganon good enough. Alright here is a list of his power:

I like how you accuse people of not knowing Ganon enough...but you seem to think that the list of things Mario has fought/dealt with is minor…because the list you just made is easy to point out that Mario has dealt with it...I think I'll counter this list you have by talking about Bowser mostly...to point out that at least two people chances are will beat him…

The power and strength of a god

Yes...I'm sure Bowser is weak...or Mario for that matter...Mario lifts things effortlessly that require Link wearing something like Silver/Gold Gauntlets in OoT...

Bowser has moved whole masses of land with his strength (M&L:BIS)...Mario has picked up and thrown a castle (SMW)

I'm pretty sure Mario and Bowser both beat Ganondorf in strength…oh and I love how you think Ganondorf’s "EQs" are impressive…Both Mario and Bowser have done things that are like that in OoT in some way or another…

he was so dangerous that the gods had to flood their entire world just to get rid of him and it didn't even worked.

You see…this is funny…instead of the gods APPEARING before Ganondorf to get rid of the guy…they didn’t even consider him any threat at all and just flooded the world instead with a 40 day/night rain…it’s like they just flexed their muscles by comparison if it is a reference to another thing with said rain…and he was still out for 100 or so years (and until Link broke the seal…he certainly wasn’t fully recovered by then…I’m also pretty sure that they didn’t do anything again because they didn’t have to by the time of WW)

I think you are down playing the gods for the games and trying to make Ganondorf sound better than he is…because in case you haven’t noticed…Ganondorf has died from their weapons only being wielded by mortals…he hasn’t beat them yet at all…the moment you can say Ganondorf>gods is when the weapons stop working on him AND the gods appear before him and can’t kill him…

Oh…and unlike Ganondorf…Bowser has bested his world’s gods somehow (PM)

Hell…he even sealed them away just for kicks…because he does stuff like that

TP: Destroyed a castle with a big explosion, broke free from heavy chains with ease, killed a sage with one punch, defeated and almost killed Midna who has great power of the Fused Shadows

Yes…because Mario lifting a castle and throwing it isn’t impressive…hell he has destroyed another castle just by stomping it to the ground in that same game…

Teleportation(TP, OOT, FSA, OoA/OoS, Alttp)

I’ve never seen that power in any other game you know…not even with Bowser >_>

Powerful magic with various elements like dark, lightning and fire to attack and do other things (Every game)

Bowser…the bloody guy specializes in magic of destruction according to his canon…
Bowser…**** in SMB3 he screwed over the MAGIC kings of the mushroom world and showed them how much fun he can have with his polymorph magic…which is by far more fun than what Ganondorf has ever been shown to do with it (Oh…and he has screwed over entire kingdoms with his magic…the 1st game with him he turned the entire mushroom kingdom into stone)

Flight(Oot, WW, Alttp)

Mario can’t fly…he can “jump good” (cookie for reference)
And Bowser can as well…even higher than Mario if he wants (plus his magic is fun like that for other things)

Possession(Listen up! He did this more than just one time. TP: Zelda and Zant, Alttp: Agahnim)

He didn’t possess Zant…and Agahnim is in debate as well from what I’ve seen (but in dealing with Zant 1st off…according to Midna…that was the reason why he never became king…was because they could tell he was an evil *******…so he went over to Ganondorf of his own will is what that implies)

Oh and I love how you think Zelda should count…I mean she gave up her power to Midna in case you forgot (if anything…because I can’t think of any other example of the power being used in the story yet…they only time they’ve shown Ganondorf being able to possess someone such as Zelda…was when their life force is at risk or something like that)

Immortality(Why does he always return in almost every game?)

Bowser sure never says die huh? And Mario hasn’t kicked the bucket yet despite dealing with a ton of things that should have killed him…

Of course…I’m aware that there is no official stance on them being immortal yet despite them both having “god powers”

But they sure don’t die easily…and both sure are durable as hell…and I’m pretty sure that the way that shows Ganondorf coming back all the time is the same reason for Bowser coming back a few times when he “died” in some stuff (NSMB)

Invincibility to everything but the Master Sword, Light/Silver Arrows (Alttp, TP, WW, OOT Last battle)

Man…you have got to love bad tropes…and how double standards can arise when talking about them…anyway

-Magical Sword
-OoA/OoS can disagree with you still…the fact that he didn’t even have a mind made him more dangerous actually (he didn’t want to just rule…he was going to destroy all in that case)
-Oh and you have to love how he “fully” healed off that wound from the Sage’s sword…I mean…really…

Powerful swords together with good swordsmans skill(OOT, WW, TP)

Yeah…Bowser has natural weapons instead of just “pulling out” his weapons…and can form them using magic on top of that stuff (SMG and him rolling up into a boulder ball)

Also have you seen how some of his super moves in BIS work? Like the Magikoopa one? He boosts their magic attacks with his own magic adding to said thing’s damage overall…because he is the KING (not Ganon ^_^)

The Power to teleport other creatures against their will even without his trident(WW: Teleporting Zelda away, OOT, Alttp: He did this like 8 times. He banished Link, Zelda and the other Sages into the Dark World.

Link needed a gate to the dark world…you know…

Because 7 sexy women were sent there while dead/semi dead (in case you didn’t get that part of how LttP was censored during Nintendo’s fun with censoring death in their games). So yeah…again with the fact that they have to be weakened badly like Pokemon except when using the Master Ball seems to be the idea before he can do it against their will shows up for most…

And a lot of good the “banishing” of Link did for that game…his magic couldn’t overcome the moon pearl he had…hell Link had a way out as well when he wanted to leave…

Oh…and do I really have to defend Bowser on this when I’ve already brought up polymorph magic? If he can change something’s genetic structure against their will…he can do this…but just in case I do…you are aware that he trapped the residents of Peach’s castle in the walls in SM64 (although the question of if he did it before or after gaining the power of the castle is in question…the signs show that the wall trapping came 1st IMO…what with his history)

The power to revive even ancient creatures (OOT: Volvagia, WW: Bosses, TP Stallord)

Well…I’ve sure have never seen Bowser revive anything before…

Telepathy (WW, OOT)

When does he show telepathy again other then powers dealing with possession? (Also…just wondering what you mean by telepathy…because telepathy can be an umbrella term for a bunch of other powers like what Ness/Lucas have…)

Psychokinesis (OOT: Levitating a castle, levitating Zelda from far away, TP: Knocking out Link and Midna with this power)

It’s mainly telekinesis as far as that definition of what you are talking about is leading into…

Psychokinesis is mainly used as an umbrella term for a whole ****load of other powers that could be talked about (including telekinesis on that mark)

I’m not saying that Ganondorf doesn’t show signs of PK (because after all…that definition could be explained for all of his moves here…like his flight)…but his term used in his game…in case you forgot is “magic”

^_^

Bowser’s “magic” has also brewed up stuff like that (Crusher magic throwing out more than just a small amount of force on the land in M:RPG…but is the closest thing I can think of right now…without just pointing out that Bowser has also made his castle fly before in PM…but that is in debate of how that happened ATM I’m sure)

Curses and manipulation(Every game but I will list some examples. OOT: Giving Deku Tree the death curse, Alttp: Turning Link into a helpless bunny, TP: Turning Link into a wolf and Midna into an imp.

Transform into a demon beast that is even more deadly and powerful(Every game except WW)

Well…I wouldn’t call the Deku Tree’s example a curse…that is more of him summoning a monster from his pocket dimension that he has lying around somewhere to eat the thing alive from the inside IMO for how it is played out…

And the other stuff is just again polymorph magic like what Bowser has shown to be doing…and I’m pretty sure I don’t have to back up transforming into stronger things with Bowser do I?

The Power to trap the enemy into a crystal so they can't move(OOT: Zelda, Alttp: all sages+Zelda)

Bowser can’t seal things away right? ^_^

Ganon has his horse so he doesn't have to run lol(TP,OOT)

Bowser has futuristic tech. on his side and Mario still deals with him…

Invisibility(The very first Zelda game)

So…why don’t you think Mario hasn’t dealt with that before again?

He's very durable and has a very strong will that can't be breaked(He got stabbed in the chest at least 2times, got stabbed several times in the head, got paralyzed by the Light Arrows, tanked several blasts, Link, Zelda and Sages combined their attack to keep Ganon down and he still kept fighting. The list could go on.)

In BIS…Bowser (not real one…but if he was at 100% for that game instead) has used HIS fire to set himself on fire and rain fire on the field…hell…I’ve already talked about the durability of both of them anyway…

Intelligence(Well if he is not in his insane mode)

Yeah…Bowser’s intelligent when he isn’t in his insane mode as well…which is mostly brought on by Peach…

Oh…and Mario is a doctor/whatever in his spare time if anything as well…who has killed “the sun”

^_^

The Power to cast Barriers(Every game)

So…you think Bowser has never used his magic to cast a barrier before? SM64?

Summon Ghost Horsemens for attacking(TP)

Wouldn’t that just be another form of phantom Ganon?
And Bowser can summon help as well from his magic…

Secret Darkness Technique. That means he is invulnerable to everything even the Master Sword and Silver Arrows as long there is no light source. (Alttp)

Actually I’m pretty sure that is just him using his invincibly to hide (because he was almost beat by that point in case you couldn’t tell ^_^) + the SDT that he has that you are talking about…

And do you really think Bowser has never been almost immune to everything as well?

He has an armor for better defense(TP)

>_>

Right…armor…

He has good dodging skills(WW: He blocks all of TLinks and Zeldas attacks unless you do the
Light Arrow deflecting tactic, TP: Good at blocking).

Anyway…Bowser may be slow…except when he builds up speed for very long lines…in which case he is like 3x as fast as Mario for where it comes up…but the fact that he is pretty much immune to everything as far as durability goes never was brought up to you?

And it's not like his defense can't be busted...

He has even more abilitys that I wont list now.

Feel free to try…I have to leave for now though…

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Starman >>>> Most options that Ganon has. ☆

 

[Terywj [태리]]

☆ Starman >>>> Most options that Ganon has. ☆

This pretty much sums it up. The invincibilities from the Star overpower Ganon's abilities.

-Terywj

 

[Ganonsburg]

It doesn't matter if Mario has the Starman if he's trapped in a pink, magic crystal or surrounded by magic barriers. It's not like Mario's invincibility allows him great strength as well (which, btw, the ToP grants both, lol. Maybe not perfect invincibility, but way more than Mario has).

Also, as for Zant reviving Stallord, Zant received his power from Ganon. Not that it matters who did it, because Ganon has been shown to do it on his own anyway. So he definitely has the ability to do so.

Clinton, most of the cases you cited for Bowser, Mario had to go get help from others in order to beat him. In other words, he received help from outside sources (the stars, which only broke that specific barrier, the people in Paper Mario at the end, etc. It's as legit as Link getting help from Midna or Zelda or the sages....which is banned in this thread).

And before you say the that Triforce should be banned then, Ganon got that using his own (already incredibly superhuman) power, and it's an artifact. It has the power of the gods in it, but it's not a direct summoning of the gods. It's like if you dropped a quarter, and I used it to buy a soda. You kind of helped me by it, but only because I was able see the quarter, know what to do with it, and you were careless enough to drop it (or maybe you did it on purpose, for the good of someone else).

 

[BSP]

☆ Starman >>>> Most options that Ganon has. ☆

This pretty much sums it up. The invincibilities from the Star overpower Ganon's abilities.

-Terywj

But Super/Hyper Sonic wasn't enough? Seriously, in that match we said Ganon could posses people instantly and Sonic didn't have a chance (wrong, especially if Mario has a chance).

I don't have much to say on Ganon's powers, but if Mario has a chance, then other in people in this thread do too.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

But Super/Hyper Sonic wasn't enough? Seriously, in that match we said Ganon could posses people instantly and Sonic didn't have a chance (wrong, especially if Mario has a chance).

I don't have much to say on Ganon's powers, but if Mario has a chance, then other in people in this thread do too.

Why do you always drop by believing anyone's 'argument', and then using that as a key to help the character you, seemingly, like?

Starman doesn't last forever, whereas Ganon's invincibility is a part of him.

Also, Ismar, possession can't be withstood by anyone, except maybe the psychics (Lucas, Ness, Mewtwo). Unless anyone else shows 'mind resistance', they're getting possessed. Mario was never shown to have any mind resistance, and starman isn't invulnerable to possession.

 

[BSP]

Why do you always drop by believing anyone's 'argument', and then using that as a key to help the character you, seemingly, like?

Who's arguement did I claim to support? What I meant was that if starman mario is even being considered, why wasn't starman Luigi, super Sonic, or any other form of invincibility?

I'm believing what I saw in the matchup summary for Sonic vs. Ganon, assuming that it was generally agreed upon. If that's the case, I don't see why this discussion is taking place. Yeah, I want the characters I like to do well, but I won't let that get in the way of true facts and such. Honestly, who doesn't want their favorite people to win?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Who's arguement did I claim to support? What I meant was that if starman mario is even being considered, why wasn't starman Luigi, super Sonic, or any other form of invincibility?

I'm believing what I saw in the matchup summary for Sonic vs. Ganon, assuming that it was generally agreed upon. If that's the case, I don't see why this discussion is taking place. Yeah, I want the characters I like to do well, but I won't let that get in the way of true facts and such. Honestly, who doesn't want their favorite people to win?

It's not a matter of a discussion taking place or not, false discussions will ALWAYS take place. I find it unnecessary for you to be attaching to them for the benefit of yourself so quickly.

 

[IsmaR]

But is there any enlightenment on it as to its power and limits? Like could he possess somebody that was 100 miles away, or that he didn't even know was there? I don't recall anyone or anything stating the extent of Ganon's power in said case. On top of that, there's been people besides psychics who have resisted possession. Really hate to use Samus as an example, but aside from having the Luminoth tech bonding with her suit, she does have the blood of a race of god-like beings who were shown to have psychic abilities. Hell, he's only been shown to possess either weak-minded or people who were knocked out.

Either way though, with all his other abilities, Ganondorf doesn't even really need it, non? Unless Mario can find a way to beat out Ganondorf in less than a few seconds, even invincibility won't help him.

 

[BSP]

It's not a matter of a discussion taking place or not, false discussions will ALWAYS take place. I find it unnecessary for you to be attaching to them for the benefit of yourself so quickly.

I see what you mean.

We really should define all of Ganon's abilities and such. I do not think Mario has ever faced an enemy capable of possessing (or at least tried to posess him), so I don't really know how he could counter it if Ganon tried.

Can Mario even harm Ganon?

 

[ShadowLink84]

I knew someone would say that invincibility is Ganon's only option to win. Those people don't know Ganon good enough. Alright here is a list of his power:

Dont need it.
I follow the legend of zelda series to the T

The power and strength of a god
(OOT: Destroying castles with ease, when he punched the ground it created an earthquake that destroyed parts of the the floor and heavily damaged Link if the Earthquake hits him, lifting two heavy swords and destroying heavy pillars with ease which Link could not do with his powerful weapons.

you're running off the damage done to Link in that series?
Sonic smashes through friggin meteors and giant battleships like they were made of paper.
Let alone that those two heavy swords, he swung REALLY slowly.

WW: Knocking Link and Zelda unconscious with one slap everytime, he was so dangerous that the gods had to flood their entire world just to get rid of him and it didn't even worked.

Um.
The Goddess' could ahve just, you know, yanked his power away.
They just, went the asshat approach.
Let alone WW Link and WW Tetra(not zelda) are, no more than kids really.
WOMG CHILD ABUSE

Sorry...

TP: Destroyed a castle with a big explosion, broke free from heavy chains with ease, killed a sage with one punch, defeated and almost killed Midna who has great power of the Fused Shadows

The destruction of the castle was a result of Midna's attack against Ganondorf.
NOt Ganondorf's power alone.
Yes he was stronger than Midna, but then Link was stronger than Ganondorf by giving him an asswhipping at the end.
Twice.
Link>Ganondof

Alttp: Destroyed parts of the Pyramids, created earthquakes that destroyed parts of the floors, ruled the Sacred Realm like a god.)

The reason he ruled the sacred realm was because he had the Triforce, which is a fragment of the God's power.
Link beat him up and took the golden power.
Sorry, Ganon was not a god.
his wish was to create a realm which he would rule over.
Which is what it granted him

Teleportation(TP, OOT, FSA, OoA/OoS, Alttp)

Short range and couldn't force upon others

Powerful magic with various elements like dark, lightning and fire to attack and do other things (Every game)[/uote]
*points to Sonic' and Mario's ability to ripa part reality and time and space*

Flight(Oot, WW, Alttp)/quote]
Sonic flies way faster.

Possession(Listen up! He did this more than just one time. TP: Zelda and Zant, Alttp: Agahnim)

TP Zelda was not even inside her body. It is supported that her soul was with Midna.
Zant was not possessed, he was a lackey.
Agahnim was possessed but he was a weakling.

Immortality(Why does he always return in almost every game?)

Link is immortal by that logic.
Hey did yo ever think that maybe its a DIFFERENT GANONDORF!?

Invincibility to everything but the Master Sword, Light/Silver Arrows (Alttp, TP, WW, OOT Last battle)

Fishing pole.
Link1 and Link 2 did not use the Master sword to beat Ganondorf.
TP you can use the ordon sword (hack) wood sword (hack) or fishing pole to beat him.
Let alone he was not invulnerable because the sage's sword did great harm to him.
He was very powerful, but not invincible

Powerful swords together with good swordsmans skill(OOT, WW, TP)/quote]
Link is better.
Did you know he dies in each of those games? Except OOT of course.

Powerful trident that can attack with powerful magic and banish others into the Dark World (FSA, OoS/OoA, Alttp, OOT)

I don't recall it the trident being in OOT.
In LTTP the trident was broken by Link.
It was merely used to channel his own power.
Let alone he didn't banish anyway, he sucked them along with him when he teleported in LTTP.

The Power to teleport other creatures against their will even without his trident(WW: Teleporting Zelda away, OOT, Alttp: He did this like 8 times. He banished Link, Zelda and the other Sages into the Dark World.

If i recall correctly, wasn't Zelda kidnapped when unconscious in WW?
OOT I dont recall this occurring.
In LTTP, No.
He was already residing within the dark world.
Agahnim was possessed and acted as his pawn in the regular world.
in LTTP, he had gone through great care and used several rituals to bring the sages intot he darkw orld.
He didn't do it with ease. He never has.

He can creat small earthquakes to stun the enemy or damage them(OOT, Attp, OoA/OoS: He does an earthquake to stun you before he shoots his powerful blast at you that does a lot of damage)

Jump.
Many different charatcers have the ability to avoid it.
Link sure as hell did.

The power to revive even ancient creatures (OOT: Volvagia, WW: Bosses, TP Stallord)

They were his minions.

Telepathy (WW, OOT)

what will this do?

Psychokinesis (OOT: Levitating a castle, levitating Zelda from far away, TP: Knocking out Link and Midna with this power)

*facedesk*
Ganondorf used magic to have the castle levitate, NOT psychokinesis.
Zelda was also, as usual, in a helpless state.

TP: Dont recall this occurring. You mean the Zant part?

Curses and manipulation(Every game but I will list some examples. OOT: Giving Deku Tree the death curse, Alttp: Turning Link into a helpless bunny, TP: Turning Link into a wolf and Midna into an imp.

Deku tree is a WEAKLING!

LTTP: This was the result of the triforce NOT Ganon.
in the dark realm, your true self is seen.
hence why Link turned into a pink fuzzy bunny.
TP: That was the result of LINK'S triforce protecting him.
The other time it wa sa magical artifact that was FORCED onto him after being defeated by Zant.

Transform into a demon beast that is even more deadly and powerful(Every game except WW)

Which gets beaten down each time.

The Power to trap the enemy into a crystal so they can't move(OOT: Zelda, Alttp: all sages+Zelda)

LTTP=rituals
OOT=She didn't defend herself in time. He just, shoop da whooped them.
If he was so powerful, he would ahve found Zelda in less than 7 years.

Ganon has his horse so he doesn't have to run lol(TP,OOT)[/uote]
yeah like the horse will help
Link has Epona.

Invisibility(The very first Zelda game)

Again, not going to help.
Lens of truth.
Time freeze
he gets beaten down.

He's very durable and has a very strong will that can't be breaked(He got stabbed in the chest at least 2times, got stabbed several times in the head, got paralyzed by the Light Arrows, tanked several blasts, Link, Zelda and Sages combined their attack to keep Ganon down and he still kept fighting. The list could go on.)

Your point being?
He can take a beating.
can he fight back?

Intelligence(Well if he is not in his insane mode)

So is...everyone else

The Power to cast Barriers(Every game)

After lots of preparation.

Summon Ghost Horsemens for attacking(TP)

Which were destroyed with ease.

Secret Darkness Technique. That means he is invulnerable to everything even the Master Sword and Silver Arrows as long there is no light source. (Alttp)

*facepalm*
He wasn't.
You just couldnt SEE him.
-.-

He has an armor for better defense(TP)

Sonic and Mario and alot of others have TRUE invincibility.

He has good dodging skills(WW: He blocks all of TLinks and Zeldas attacks unless you do the
Light Arrow deflecting tactic, TP: Good at blocking).

So he can dodge very fast sword movements but not dodge a deflected arrow with HILARIOUS start up time

Perfect offense options

What?

Perfect defense options[/uote]
What?

There you can see it. He has obviously more than just being invincible. And that's not everything. He has even more abilitys that I wont list now.

Sonic: *timestops*
GAME!

Why do you always drop by believing anyone's 'argument', and then using that as a key to help the character you, seemingly, like?

Starman doesn't last forever, whereas Ganon's invincibility is a part of him.

Also, Ismar, possession can't be withstood by anyone, except maybe the psychics (Lucas, Ness, Mewtwo). Unless anyone else shows 'mind resistance', they're getting possessed. Mario was never shown to have any mind resistance, and starman isn't invulnerable to possession.

Name one time where Ganondorf has possessed an individual that either

A. was not his servant (agahnim)
B. Not lacking their soul/was actually conscious (TP zelda).

Right now.

Cause frankly, this possession nonsense makes NO sense.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ I won't count Mario down for the count, Mario has beaten the impossible. But that being said, Ganon doesn't die or really get's harmed by any attacks. †

 

[Lucario1337]

Ganon has survived a lot of things. (sword impalement through body about 3 times i know so far! one was in the skull"ww")

Besides that if he didn't have his magic im sure hed have enough brawn and smarts to take on mario.

 

[_clinton]

And before you say the that Triforce should be banned then, Ganon got that using his own (already incredibly superhuman) power, and it's an artifact. It has the power of the gods in it, but it's not a direct summoning of the gods. It's like if you dropped a quarter, and I used it to buy a soda. You kind of helped me by it, but only because I was able see the quarter, know what to do with it, and you were careless enough to drop it (or maybe you did it on purpose, for the good of someone else).

Holy ****…I wasn’t aware that my quarter could “think” for itself is all I have to say for your example of you saying Ganondorf deserves the ToP…

Of course you don’t seem to understand already that I’m ok with Ganondorf having that power part of the full triforce…because like I said before…the triforce is pretty much the same as the power of the dragon/earth from the mother games (only that power actually has a “good” lock on it if you ask me about it…what with the owners of it truly being linked to it and all before the stuff gets taken out) and some other powers talked about in this thread

Oh and on your “facts” about Mario…the stars which were used in SM64 to break the barriers Bowser put up around the castle are by far more qualified to be under the term of “powerful artifact” than what the triforce is…those stars for that game do not show any sign of being anything more than a power source of some sort (unlike so many other things in these threads)

Oh and as far as Paper Mario goes…Mario did by far more to defeat Bowser in the end than the star spirits did for that case IMO…I mean…Bowser “beat” the gods at the start of the game before he went to Mario…and they were begging for Mario’s help overall…who was still alive after being BBQed and thrown out of the castle in the sky from Bowser’s + their power…

Hell…look at this quote:

Mamar: Oh, thank heavens! He's been gravely injured, but I think he'll recover.

****…they just if anything sent him on his journey to rescue THEM only a little bit faster than he would have been able to go if it wasn’t for their recovery…

Oh and I really have to question why you think Power star items don’t buff Mario’s power…when the descriptions for them in games talking about them point out that they do buff Mario’s power, speed, and of course defense

Of course…I don’t know why I’m chatting like Bowser is so great…when canon wise w/o any buffs…Mario has been shown to be more powerful canon wise than him (maybe I’m just talking about Bowser because when chatting about a character…a good source of pointing out how powerful a hero is…is just to talk about the things they fight)

Have you ever noticed that Mario doesn’t really use them for much besides opening doors/giving them back to their original owners? In fact…he doesn’t seem to use them on Bowser at all despite clear evidence showing that he knows how to use them……he just strips Bowser of the main use of them so that they are on “even” terms (and with Mario naturally being more powerful than Bowser…guess who wins?)

But that shouldn’t surprise you…after all…the way the Mario series seems to be set up these days is more along the lines that Mario and Bowser see themselves as rivals to a point…hated rivals of course and maybe another reason Mario isn’t using those powers to also **** Bowser is maybe because you could skull **** him even more never to use them again or something…after all…Mario is only just getting the powers back and kicking his *** w/o out them…it clearly drives a point across that Bowser having those powers won’t do him any good vs. Mario in the end…

Oh and what makes you think Ganondorf will trap Mario in a large crystal? Hell the only reason I think that worked for Zelda was because she gave a ****load of her power to Link (Light arrows are her main power source you know)

Oh and finally as far as you thinking that Link couldn’t beat Ganondorf w/o direct outside help (this part is coming up because I think this thread is undermining Link’s role in this stuff)

May I remind you of Zelda 1, LttP, or the final fight in TP (where he challenges that Link to a sword fight…and if you ask me…I don’t think he is holding back in that)

Hell…even in OoT the only reason the sages where able to seal Ganondorf away was because Link kicked his *** (and in MM…that same Link is a lot stronger after that)

Starman doesn't last forever, whereas Ganon's invincibility is a part of him.

Starman don't last forever...but in case you haven't noticed...they can be recharged...and starman are only just one of the power ups that Ganondorf would have to deal with...

And again...I don't see how Ganondorf's invincibility is going to help him...when again...Mario is packing powers LIKE his (god power)

Also, Ismar, possession can't be withstood by anyone, except maybe the psychics (Lucas, Ness, Mewtwo). Unless anyone else shows 'mind resistance', they're getting possessed. Mario was never shown to have any mind resistance, and starman isn't invulnerable to possession.

I'm pretty sure the term 'mind resistance' can be classified as more than just having telepathic psychic powers to match said telepathic powers...

After all...I certainly don't see Link having mental powers like that (of course I guess the ToC could possibly be used to explain Link's case...maybe)

And I really want to know why Mario couldn't avoid it...when again...in Bowser's 1st canon appearance...he turned the residents of the Mushroom Kingdom into stone with his Magic...but not Mario and Luigi for whatever reason (maybe because they have powers as well that are also star powers...how about that?)

It's not a matter of a discussion taking place or not, false discussions will ALWAYS take place.

Like Lucas not having access to his full canon powers for a BS reason...despite him overall having more of a right to them than what Ganondorf has a right to the ToP when you compare them…

Sonic smashes through friggin meteors and giant battleships like they were made of paper.

I'm pretty sure Mario breaks through things as well when he wants to...SMG/SMB3 sure showed the results of what happened to a fleet Bowser had...

Link>Ganondof

Actually it should be IMO...

Link>Ganondorf>Midna

Flight(Oot, WW, Alttp)/quote]
Sonic flies way faster.

I don't even really see Ganondorf's thing as flight anyway to a point...

Hey did yo ever think that maybe its a DIFFERENT GANONDORF!?

You certainly have a point...after all...the series is going through a ****ed time line as a result of Zelda sending Link back through time in OoT in case some of you people forgot that...

TP you can use the ordon sword (hack) wood sword (hack) or fishing pole to beat him.
Let alone he was not invulnerable because the sage's sword did great harm to him.
He was very powerful, but not invincible

No offense...but hacks don't count...
Canon wise Link had the master sword for fighting Ganondorf in TP...don't try and argue the canon

Of course...Ganondorf's magic can be reflected by some strange things...of course I really have to question how serious they are about them (bottles, and a bug-catching net people?)

Of course...Ganondorf in his ultimate form...has been beat w/o the master sword (OoA/OoS)

LTTP: This was the result of the triforce NOT Ganon.
in the dark realm, your true self is seen.
hence why Link turned into a pink fuzzy bunny.

Well...I guess that does knock off natural polymorph magic off Ganondorf's list of skills then when you look at that...

Of course...with Link turning into a bunny rabbit...what does that say about him is what I want to know... ^_^

Sonic and Mario and alot of others have TRUE invincibility.

Sonic and Mario and a lot of others have game mechs. that give the player an illusion of true invincibility...nothing more...

Again...please show me a spear that breaks through everything and a shield that blocks everything...

So he can dodge very fast sword movements but not dodge a deflected arrow with HILARIOUS start up time

Well...you are aware that the real reason it hit was because of him not expecting that...which also calls into question his powers of telepathy and such (if he can read minds...why didn't he get that?)

Cause frankly, this possession nonsense makes NO sense.

Because it is BS... ^_^

♪ I won't count Mario down for the count, Mario has beaten the impossible. But that being said, Ganon doesn't die or really get's harmed by any attacks. †

Yeah...way too many of the Zelda games don't agree with you on that whole Ganondorf doesn't get harmed thing...**** if it wasn't for the ToP in OoT/general constantly reviving him...he would have been beaten w/o even the master sword...after all...Link lost it during the during the 1st part...

Oh and it's not like the ToP is attached to him...after all...I'm sure that someone like Bowser would want power just as much as Ganondorf...and because the triforce chooses who can hold it BASED off who wants what more than the others...who would the triforce go to in a Bowser vs. Ganondorf fight?

Ganon has survived a lot of things. (sword impalement through body about 3 times i know so far! one was in the skull"ww")

He didn't live through that skull **** with the sword the “2nd time” (WW) it happened and even the 1st time (OoT)…yeah he was pretty much done in the match when that happened

WW's story goes OoT or something, WW, PH, ST from what I can see...Ganondorf hasn’t been in PH or ST…hell the triforce seems to be missing after WW through ST

Besides that if he didn't have his magic im sure hed have enough brawn and smarts to take on mario.

So...the fact that I've pointed out that Mario has brawn and smarts as well isn't enough for you?

Oh yeah…and as far as it matters…Sonic is on the list of characters that I think would skull **** Ganondorf as well…

 

[Ray_Kalm]

_clinton, your logic on Ganon's invincibility could also be used for Mario, you should know that. Also, possessing/turning to stone the main character(s) of the game would be ironically dull to the storyline.

ShadowLink84, I'd reply to the rest of your post, but for now, let me tell you, that there is only ONE Ganondorf throughout the Zelda series.