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Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

_clinton

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Naw, man

Get the Metal Suit Z (armor upgrade) and both explosions and falling rocks deal less than 1/8 of damage


About the size of an onion or orange, give or take

The fact the rocks break into pieces upon impact suggests they're falling at a pretty fast rate meaning it'll hit harder than a foot step
The rocks are bigger than an orange, you can collect an orange and other fruit like it in the games and the rocks are bigger than that.

The fact that Olimar's suit and other suits like it have survived a crash or two while flying into earth's atmosphere is another testament to how durable his equipment is, but whatever. Like I said, this is only towards certain foes like Pikachu, Jigglypuff, or Pichu, and not something like Lucario, trainer, or Yoshi (who will destroy him).
 

ElPanandero

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@Clinton

I've played and beaten Pikmin 2...

...I know full well what the "Earth" there is composed of. (Let's not forget the element of otherworldly plasma-like aether monster in that one dungeon with the odd means of disposing of).

Anyway, my inability to successfully make size comparisons comes from my inability to use that skill in general, not my lack of pikmin knowledge. Regardless, the rocks in that world are still comparable to boulders, or at least in my opinion.
 

JOE!

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the boulders are MINICULE compared to yoshi's foot

being tepped on would do the damage of 1000 of those boulders to olimar
 

Diddy Kong

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Comparing Yoshi to Olimar is like... comparing us to sky scrapers, which would be able to jump about 5 miles of distance in the air just to stomp on us.

So yes. Yoshi should win.
 

Diddy Kong

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So far, Olimar has only been losing. Against what characters you guys think he does have a chance? Excluding the failing R.O.B and Mr.Game & Watch here. Pichu would even be a problem me thinks.
 

_clinton

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The fact that he lost to pokemon like Jigglypuff, Pichu, and Pikachu is just BS and the only reason why things like Pikachu have been winning at all is because people think the game mechanics are canon, despite what the dex says on it (Pichu can't even hurt a human canon wise).
 

ElPanandero

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Well Pikachu I'm not sure of, but Pichu and Jigglypuff he might have faired ok against. I'll need to check up on their dexes.
 

_clinton

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When Jigglypuff is singing is holding it's breath according to the dex. Any foe that has a hard time falling asleep pretty much endangers it's life. That sucks for it is all I have to say about that, Jiggs isn't anything like Darkrai that is for sure. That is a fun pokemon, the dex says it only uses its power for keeping people away from it (although canon wise the way you get a certain other pokemon may say otherwise).

Pichu canon wise can't even really harm a human or store it's energy that well. Pikachu can't harm humans that well as well, to a point, a burst sounds like it could hurt, but unless the thing is in a group it might regret that because, if it uses too much power it endangers its life as well. Raichu is the opposite of that, the thing has so much power that it could be a threat to others just because of that.
 

REL38

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Where are you getting that Pikachu's electricity can't harm a human?

or even store it well?

or too much electricity could kill it?


As far as I'm concerned, Olimar is the 3rd worst character here beating only GnW and ROB by default


@JOE

The only guys here I can see Olimar tanking a footstep would be from the smaller characters
I think it'd make more sense for Yoshi to eat Olimar is all :p


@Diddy

Pichu has Thunderbolt, Toxic and Raindance
As long as it doesn't physically take Olimar on, he'll beat em'
 

_clinton

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Where are you getting that Pikachu's electricity can't harm a human?
Please read it again:
Pichu canon wise can't even really harm a human or store it's energy that well.
The statement is about Pichu mostly, the next part is about Pikachu:
Pikachu can't harm humans that well as well, to a point, a burst sounds like it could hurt, but unless the thing is in a group it might regret that because, if it uses too much power it endangers its life as well.
Pikachu sounds like it has to really fling off a lot of energy canon wise to hurt a human:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pikachu_(Pokémon)#Pok.C3.A9dex_entries_3

When it releases pent-up energy in a burst, the electric power is equal to a lightning bolt.
Oh and as far as energy goes and how it can be a threat if it runs on empty:
It occasionally uses an electric shock to recharge a fellow Pikachu that is in a weakened state.
That shows that stored energy is important for it and the family when you can see them jump start each other like
how my car needs a jump all the time >_>
. Plus you see other things like how a lot of power does things like pump up Raichu, why wouldn’t the opposite be true as well?

As far as I'm concerned, Olimar is the 3rd worst character here beating only GnW and ROB by default
How? Olimar defense wise has shown that his suit can handle entry into Earth’s atmosphere as far as taking a hit goes. When have Pikachu, Jigglypuff, or Pichu taken a hit like that?

Pikachu is only 10.4x bigger height wise than Olimar, there are plenty of things that seem that large in game, why wouldn’t the stun spray work again? Why would Pikachu’s electricity work on him or yellow Pikmin?

Pichu has Thunderbolt, Toxic and Raindance
As long as it doesn't physically take Olimar on, he'll beat em'
How will Toxic work on Olimar? Or why couldn’t Olimar rescue any hit by Pikachu’s waste? Why would raindance work? (And I’m still complaining about the range of learning the move and how it goes from Ratata to Arceus on a different point)
 

REL38

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If by canon, you mean the Pokedex entries, I don't see Pikachu having weak electrical powers or being harmed by electrical use

None of the Pokedex entries suggest an electrical attack won't harm a human when even Pichu's entries say it can "zap" a human adult

Pretty darn sure Pikachu would hit hard

Thunderbolt would kill any non-Yellow Pikmin, been over that
Toxic would cause Pikmin to go off in a frenzy mixed with Rain Dance possibly causing Pikmin to drown would scatter the Pikmin to an even higher degree
Repeated usage would leave Olimar with less and less Pikmin


Note how I mentioned not physically attacking
Spray would get Pichu into a death-lock, but Substitute could prove otherwise allowing for physical attacks to pretty much kill Olimar



Olimar falling from into the atmosphere isn't impressive
Especially given his size

Drop a cockroach from the Empire State Building and it'll live
Drop a rat and it'll die
That's given the "reality" logic often times throw around this thread
 

_clinton

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If by canon, you mean the Pokedex entries, I don't see Pikachu having weak electrical powers or being harmed by electrical use
I'm not saying he'll be harmed from his own "electrical use," I'm saying he'll be harmed from using too much energy. Running out of energy seems to be the equivalent from oh say the Charmander family's tail going out from what the dex sort of gives a hint at.
Of course, on that note now sense you brought it up, Pikachu sounds like it could be harmed by its own power now that I think about it, that seems to be what the tail is there for in the 1st place you know, see Raichu for example.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Raichu_(Pokémon)#Pok.C3.A9dex_entries_3
Its long tail serves as ground to protect itself from its own high-voltage power.
This is chances are why Pikachu and Pichu are also protective of their tails:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pichu_(Pokémon)
It plays with others by touching tails and setting off sparks.
So, the fact that Raichu’s tail clearly serves as a protector from its own power according to the dex (who btw has Thunder bolt as a move in the dex as well when it comes to how strong the things attacks are, unlike Pikachu) is clearly suppose to mean something. Yet Pichu can touch other Pichu tails without any real rick; that really only kind of tells me that the power they have isn’t much of a threat yet.

Well, thankfully they have their tail huh?

None of the Pokedex entries suggest an electrical attack won't harm a human when even Pichu's entries say it can "zap" a human adult

Pretty darn sure Pikachu would hit hard
"Zapping" a human adult isn't saying much. How much of a "zap" is it? Is it equal to something like just rubbing your feet across a shag carpet? Because they certainly don't make it sound effective (It's a baby pokemon, none of them are impressive. They aren't suppose to be fighters or “deadly” yet) and based off how Pichu act in general with their tails and the like, it certainly sounds more like just the equivalent to a shag carpet rub or such.

And I already said Pikachu could possibility maybe harm an adult human, but that will only happen if it releases a ****load of energy according to the dex, which could be a risk, because the dex clearly hints at it hardly having “unlimited power.”

Thunderbolt would kill any non-Yellow Pikmin, been over that
Toxic would cause Pikmin to go off in a frenzy mixed with Rain Dance possibly causing Pikmin to drown would scatter the Pikmin to an even higher degree
Repeated usage would leave Olimar with less and less Pikmin
How would rain dance cause Pikmin to drown? It is raining all the time in Pikmin. A simple call saves Pikmin from poisoning anyway at the off chance you do get them put in there. Plus it’s not like Toxic sounds like it has a super effective range, after all it just seems to be pokemon waste or so which certainly would explain why “pretty much every” pokemon can learn it, oh and as far as poison goes, the “gas” is what seems to really kill pikmin, not pokemon ****.

Note how I mentioned not physically attacking
Spray would get Pichu into a death-lock, but Substitute could prove otherwise allowing for physical attacks to pretty much kill Olimar
You are aware that while attacking, Pikmin hold their victim down as well right? Plus how hard would it be for pikmin to break through an energy substitute and just continue smacking Pikachu? You are aware that “multi-hit” attacks **** subs right? Plus Olimar also has that other spray that makes pikmin super fast strong and more durable as well for a pretty good time frame.

Drop a cockroach from the Empire State Building and it'll live
Drop a rat and it'll die
That's given the "reality" logic often times throw around this thread
I don’t know if you can compare things possibility burning up in the earth’s atmosphere while “falling” to just a drop like that. Still whatever, it's not like Olimar's suit hasn't been shown to protect him from a lot already, or at least that lot from what the people in the pokemon world use for pets.
 

Samochan

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Haven't we been over the fact that Olimar simply cannot even hope to catch pikachu with his pikmin, while pikachu can just spam some good moves like surf that'll drown most of his pikmins and otherwise discharge to just kill a large area full of pikmins? There's no chance pikmins can take light ball boosted surfs when they drown on normal water nor stabbed discharge when it hits basically everywhere (everywhere, as in both moves also hit your ally). Discharge can also paralyze 30% of the time. Pikachu can also substitute/protect whenever it seems it's gonna take some damage or status. Olimar is very small and slow, while pikachu is bigger and quite fast in pokemon standards. Pikachu has a big range while Olimar has almost none, pikmin need to make physical contact in order to attack pikachu. Static can also paralyze any pikmin that somehow has managed to get close enough to attack pika. There's no BS in pikachu winning, vice versa would be full of BS. Olimar out of pikmins means Olimar loses, no? >_>

"It stores electricity in the electric sacs on its cheeks. When it releases pent-up energy in a burst, the electric power is equal to a lightning bolt. "

Yea, not dangerous at all...

Last time I checked, lightning bolt can easily kill a human. >_>
 

Diddy Kong

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Olimar being defeated himself should actually count as a lose. Same with Pokemon Trainer (however, the trainer himself is completely helpless, while Olimar would at least be slighty stronger than most of his Pikmin).

_clinton doesn't agree with Pikachu winning cause iirc he doesn't think Pokemon leveling up makes sence. Personally, I think it does make sence, so Pikachu should be more powerful than _clinton implies.

I agree with him on Pichu however, cause it's canon wise a just hatched Pikachu. No way it would get to level 100 on itself and not evolve.
 

JOE!

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So far, Olimar has only been losing. Against what characters you guys think he does have a chance? Excluding the failing R.O.B and Mr.Game & Watch here. Pichu would even be a problem me thinks.
honestly guys, you may want to do what i did with my thread...

instead of dragging it on for all 1557 MUs or so, after enough rounds have passed to detirmine who can do what exactly, just do a general sweep per character and see who's they definatley beat/be beaten by, then discuss the ones everyone isnt sure about...

to avoid the stuff like yoshi vs Olimar which is a no-brainer, and just wastes space
 

Diddy Kong

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It's basically already what we're doing. You think me and _clinton's walls only discuss one battle at a time? :p But I agree though. Would make it a lot easier for WhatIsRaizen as well.

Oh and I want us to discuss the Assist Thropy characters as well. There are a lot of interesting characters there. Isaac from Golden Sun for example. Isaac vs Ness for example would be an awesome match up.
 

Nova9000

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honestly guys, you may want to do what i did with my thread...

instead of dragging it on for all 1557 MUs or so, after enough rounds have passed to detirmine who can do what exactly, just do a general sweep per character and see who's they definatley beat/be beaten by, then discuss the ones everyone isnt sure about...

to avoid the stuff like yoshi vs Olimar which is a no-brainer, and just wastes space
I helped by makin the chart...smh...no respect...
 

ElPanandero

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Olimar being defeated himself should actually count as a lose. Same with Pokemon Trainer (however, the trainer himself is completely helpless, while Olimar would at least be slighty stronger than most of his Pikmin).

_clinton doesn't agree with Pikachu winning cause iirc he doesn't think Pokemon leveling up makes sence. Personally, I think it does make sence, so Pikachu should be more powerful than _clinton implies.

I agree with him on Pichu however, cause it's canon wise a just hatched Pikachu. No way it would get to level 100 on itself and not evolve.
Technically speaking Pichu evolves when it is happy and comfortable with the trainer (although I don't exactly see how that makes sense), so if a pichu had a mean trainer/terrible life, it could mature to the "lvl 100" maturity level and still be a pichu...but that really has no impact.
 

REL38

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Have you even played the game, Clinton?

It has never rained in either Pikmin games

The raining in the Brawl stage ain't canon either


Samo covered electrical power

You have no evidence of how much electricity Pikachu can store so whatever happens when Pikachu is low on juice isn't much of an issue


Olimar in Pikmin had no clear, concrete indication of "falling through the atmosphere".
His Dolphin fell apart high in the sky, he awoke on the ground stating he blacked out
He could of fallen 1000ft in the sky or 50ft from being ejected from his ship
How high he fell is pure speculation
 

_clinton

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Haven't we been over the fact that Olimar simply cannot even hope to catch pikachu with his pikmin,
Oh how? Sense when does Pikachu have super speed or anything of a hint towards that? Last I checked physically it would pretty much be a normal big ****ing mouse w/o the electric properties.

while pikachu can just spam some good moves like surf that'll drown most of his pikmins and otherwise discharge to just kill a large area full of pikmins?
I still like how you think flash flooding a field makes sense still, it still doesn’t make as much sense, again it might as well be equal to Sephiroth using super nova to destory when the canon threat for FF7 was the meteor magic.

There's no chance pikmins can take light ball boosted surfs when they drown on normal water
They only drown if you leave them there and don’t rescue call them, and there are still foes in Pikmin that fire water off as a projectile in the 1st place (like the final boss of Pikmin 2).

nor stabbed discharge when it hits basically everywhere (everywhere, as in both moves also hit your ally). Discharge can also paralyze 30% of the time.
Olimar is going to be using yellow Pikmin, you can save them from water easily and they are 100% immune to electricity just like Olimar is.

Pikachu can also substitute/protect whenever it seems it's gonna take some damage or status.
Yeah, and Olimar has a special spray that makes his pikmin go bat **** crazy, chances are they’ll break through a sub easily, you have to love how much HP and defense Pikachu has, It doesn't take that long for Pikmin to rip through things when they hyped up, and how will protect stop the beatings when they are already on him, it’s not like Pikachu won’t counter the things by doing that.

Olimar is very small and slow, while pikachu is bigger and quite fast in pokemon standards.
Pikachu isn’t much bigger compared to some other pikmin foe as far as standards go, and Olimar is overall faster than every pokemon as well, but when he is using that spray they do become faster than him.

Pikachu has a big range while Olimar has almost none, pikmin need to make physical contact in order to attack pikachu. Static can also paralyze any pikmin that somehow has managed to get close enough to attack pika.
Olimar can throw yellow Pikmin pretty far actually as far as range goes, and I’m pretty sure static counts as electricity again in some way (plus Pikmin sort of attack with their leaves in the 1st place, I’m pretty sure that isn’t fully direct attacking). But whatever, voltage is proportional to the length of the bolt I guess, so how much length will less than 100,00 volts get?

Last time I checked, lightning bolt can easily kill a human. >_>
Yes, because that statement totally means that it is equal to this:


So what about this statement:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pikachu_(Pokémon)#Pok.C3.A9dex_entries_3
When several of these Pokémon gather, their electricity could build and cause lightning storms.
Did you forget that in order to get anywhere near a real lightning storm the game clearly says you need a group of the little ****ers?

So, I’m pretty sure the “lightning bolt” that Pikachu has also isn’t anywhere near the power that a real natural bolt of lightning has by far more power than what something like even Raichu has been shown to use.

But on that note, just who do you think Pikachu will really beat canon wise anyway? I really want to know.

Olimar being defeated himself should actually count as a lose.
Well, yeah of course.

Too bad Olimar is a lot more durable and stronger than his pikmin overall and I don’t see how you would beat him w/o beating his Pikmin 1st, he even has an auto repair system that kicks in if you give him a chance to use it.

Pokemon leveling up makes sence.
That is hardly the only reason, the dex clearly shows that as far as pokemon go, Pikachu really isn't that strong, a lot of moves that pokemon can learn make no sense, the stats don't make much sense, you name it.

Really, how is it winning?

However, to be fair and show that I do look at both views, I could see why you would think that the leveling system does make sense, the fact that some pokemon (ok most of them) evolve when they level, I'm still not ok with that though because the closest thing towards leveling up is nowhere near 100 (plus you can find ones that aren’t at their level range that the game says you need, ever see a level 5 Pidgeotto? I have!).

I agree with him on Pichu however, cause it's canon wise a just hatched Pikachu. No way it would get to level 100 on itself and not evolve.
It chances are would be a Raichu at "level 100" actually, not a Pikachu.

In fact that goes for all pokemon really that evolve, the game even explains why they would in the 4th generation games (strength is the reason, the pokemon that don’t evolve are in fact “perfect” as far as the demands on living go)

The only way a “weak” pokemon won’t evolve is in a special case like this one:
http://www.serebii.net/heartgoldsoulsilver/pichu.shtml
Professor Elm's Research

If you take the Spiky Eared Pichu to Professor Elm's and have it at the front of your party, you will get some backstory of the Pichu. Professor Elm will say that Professor Oak has recently discussed Celebi's time travel abilities and that the Pichu proves his theory. The Spiky-Ear Pichu arrived in this time by Ilex Forest through time travelling with Celebi, which explains why it cannot be traded and why the trainer needs to take care of it.

In addition to that, all the time travelling it has done has also caused its body to stick in its current state. Professor Elm then goes to contact all the Pokémon Centre attendants to prevent the Spiky Eared Pichu from being used in game to game trades
That shows that a pokemon not evolving is something that doesn't make sense and chances are that sucks (Pichu is almost like Porky!)

Oh and I want us to discuss the Assist Thropy characters as well.
I'd rather do more than just that, bosses, stickers, trophies, outsiders that aren't in Brawl, you name it!

Have you even played the game, Clinton?

It has never rained in either Pikmin games
You think it doesn't rain at all in the games? Olimar clearly hints at it:

Plus I don’t see how IRL rain is that much of an issue for bugs really anyway.

You have no evidence of how much electricity Pikachu can store so whatever happens when Pikachu is low on juice isn't much of an issue
Chances are he can’t fling as much as Raichu can.

His Dolphin fell apart high in the sky,
Which made him directly exposed to that, after all his ships compartment to protect him from the threat of space was one of the things he was exposed to.

How high he fell is pure speculation
Another issue is Louie and what he takes in Pikmin 2 at the very start of it, but he certainly doesn’t take as much as Olimar takes.
 

REL38

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Kids learning psychic powers doesn't make sense, but we don't go about questioning it
My Gengar can explode, make the sun shine and summon electricity to strike his opponents
I could care less for how he manages it
Same applies to every other Pokemon

So with moves like Quick Attack, I'm guessing it's got some speed
Especially when it outpriotizes various Pokemon moves

In regards to lightning bolt, a Lightning storm covers a huge area. The electricity built up from a mass of Pikachu indicates their immense power as it can create an electrical storm
Cuz, ya know, those cover miles in the sky
If you ask me, that shows how much power Pikachus posses
Enough to create natural phenomena
Imagine the power just one can possess

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSdgN-74JyY

Again, how high that is speculation
1000ft or 50ft
You tell me

Louie's fall was from the height of a tree, onto soft snow given the indent he made in the snow
Not very notable

To add about Olimar, he ain't faster than ANY Pokemon
Spicy Spray makes Pikmin fast by the game's standards, but relatively slow from an overview perspective. He ain't gonna catch Pikachu
Bitter Spray won't work on a Substitute for obvious reasons and Pikmin attacks probably won't make it easy to break when Pika can tank much greater hits than what Pikmin have to offer

Also, it's obvious it rains in the Pikmin world, but it's never shown that Pikmin are capable of enduring it when above ground
Especially a "heavy rain" which is pretty much guarantee to cause Pikmin to scatter and hinder movement

Too add to a point I missed, Toxic poisons the opponent
I'm pretty darn sure animal crap doesn't poison upon impact wherelse a toxin of some sorts kinda does
 

Diddy Kong

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^ Exactly. Especially implying that you still think Ness and Lucas can somehow controll time and space, which I still don't believe in.

Pokemon should be able to have access to all TM moves they can learn in game. So yes, Pikachu on his own can / should be able to create lightning. Cause besides from game mechanics, there isn't really all that much we can tell about Pokemon characters anyway.

And I'm ok with discussing bosses and throphies, but stickers and characters outside Smash are a little too much. Throphies already will be difficult imo. How are we gonna know whos stronger between generic enemies anyway??? O.o
 

_clinton

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Kids learning psychic powers doesn't make sense, but we don't go about questioning it
The funny thing is those kids that are learning psychic powers is actually explained in the canon for why they and others can learn psychic powers in the 1st place (there isn't as much real info on "how come," but the why part certainly is explained).

In fact, the reason for why Ness and Lucas being special in the 1st place is also explained (again, not much info for how come, but again why certainly is there), you have to love how in Mother 1 Giygas was afraid of someone appearing like Ness even still.

Mother 1 is fun btw and actually has a back story for its game in the NES times (which certainly is something), just saying.

My Gengar can explode, make the sun shine and summon electricity to strike his opponents
I could care less for how he manages it
Same applies to every other Pokemon
So, you must certainly seem ok with the 4 move limit then don't you? >_>

I still like how weather control is actually seen as something special in the pokedex for a few pokemon that can use it, but for some reason your common field mouse can do it if "trained right."

So with moves like Quick Attack, I'm guessing it's got some speed
Especially when it outpriotizes various Pokemon moves
Fun fact, 96 or so pokemon learn quick attack, which hardly means **** because it is the same for all of these “speed attack” moves. The fun fact though is that the users base speed ranges from 60-130 counting only final form pokemon, if “speed” is how they learn the moves, then results certainly don’t match up.

Crobat’s 130 base speed which is a so called “symbol of agility” for some certain users in this thread for some reason doesn’t even learn quick attack or any priority based move naturally (as in by level, it is an egg move for example with quick attack).

So for this note, how come something like Masquerain manages to learn it? By level up even, I mean 60 speed isn’t much when the average stat in the pokemon world is considered 85 (yeah, just saying, that is considered the average IIRC in the metagame, so how is Pikachu “super fast” again when it only has a stat that is only a bit higher than that?).

Umbreon certainly doesn’t seem that fast as well. I mean Metagross is the only thing to learn bullet punch as well by level besides Scizor, and both of them certainly don’t have a “high speed” stat as well. Dewgong, Empoleon learning aqua jet? Come on!

There is clearly more to priority based attacks than just “speed,” general info about how aggressive certain pokemon could be sounds like a better trait to talk about them, because it certainly would explain how some of them learn it better.

In regards to lightning bolt, a Lightning storm covers a huge area. The electricity built up from a mass of Pikachu indicates their immense power as it can create an electrical storm
Yet, they never actually mention things like size, duration, or that stuff that is also important. I'm pretty sure it isn't something like a supercell thunderstorm is all that I'm saying. Especially when rain dance by itself pretty much only seems like a single cell.

In fact, based off the other info about it, this is what it sounds like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-mass_thunderstorm

If you don’t want to check the link, then note that I mean a very weak one, because it certainly doesn’t sound like Zapdoes and how it “for some reason” appears only when a severe thunderstorm is going on “dropping lightning” from the sky because it makes severe thunderstorms in the 1st place by just flying in general. Oh and you still have to love how Zapdoes learns the same “rain dance” move game play wise, you just do.

Imagine the power just one can possess
It certainly shouldn't be enough to use the move "rain dance" by itself, not when the dex says you need a group of them.

Louie's fall was from the height of a tree, onto soft snow given the indent he made in the snow
Not very notable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0_lSRUja_8
4:10
The ship also hit a tree (or tree branch, sense we have to be "super detailed about this apparently such as you seem to be trying to be with toxic, I really don't care about "the super detailed" part of stuff like this) which knocked him out of it in the 1st place while going at a super high speed, but whatever.

To add about Olimar, he ain't faster than ANY Pokemon
Spicy Spray makes Pikmin fast by the game's standards, but relatively slow from an overview perspective. He ain't gonna catch Pikachu
Already pointed out that 85 base speed is pretty much a 3/5 in the competitive stats, it certainly isn’t super speed, and I already talked about priority based moves.

Bitter Spray won't work on a Substitute for obvious reasons and Pikmin attacks probably won't make it easy to break when Pika can tank much greater hits than what Pikmin have to offer
Ah no to that “tanking thing,” what with considering how Pikachu’s defenses really are only comparable to weak weak bug pokemon:
35 HP, 30 Defense, 40 Sp. Defense=105 total

Caterpie:
45 HP, 35 Defense, 20 Sp. Defense=100 total (I’d still take that just because of the HP)
Wurmple:
45 HP, 35 Defense, 30 Sp. Defense=110 total

Also, just also pointing that out weak part really fast, fun fact, don’t look at some of the other low form bug pokemon. Oh and I like how you think Pikmin don’t break through much when they just so happen to bust apart metal based foes like for example the final bosses gear or that Man-at-legs foe.

Too add to a point I missed, Toxic poisons the opponent
I'm pretty darn sure animal crap doesn't poison upon impact wherelse a toxin of some sorts kinda does
So, why does every pokemon learn that again for the most part if you teach it? Plus Toxic is a "special poison" in the 1st place as well that is different from “other poison based moves that cause poison," like how as it builds it gets worse and worse to the point where you get KOed faster with it than just poison if you don’t remove the pokemon from the stuff. It certainly starts off weaker than "normal poison," but if you stick around it.

Oh **** I’m going to throw up just from writing about this, compared to a simple "whiff" of the stuff which almost makes me throw up 90% of the time at the wrong moment, like someone throwing it on me would be.

^_^
 

PowerBomb

Smash Master
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_clinton, you know how the egg groups don't make sense?

Cynthia states somewhere in the Arceus events that Arceus itself makes every egg from nothing and gives it to every Pokemon couple. Apparently, no mating involved, just Arceus spam.
 

Diddy Kong

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Maybe actual 'mating' doesn't even happen in Pokemon. I think this is somehow a way of Nintendo explaining to the kids where Pokemon eggs come from, or something.

Apperantly Arcues is a sexist though, cause the baby Pokemon always comes from the evolution chain (may there be one) of the female Pokemon. :p

Also, wisdom teeth surgery is a *****.
 

PowerBomb

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Maybe actual 'mating' doesn't even happen in Pokemon. I think this is somehow a way of Nintendo explaining to the kids where Pokemon eggs come from, or something.

Apperantly Arcues is a sexist though, cause the baby Pokemon always comes from the evolution chain (may there be one) of the female Pokemon. :p

Also, wisdom teeth surgery is a *****.
Ouch. I had mine out last year. Not fun. Jamba Juice is fun though ;)
 

Diddy Kong

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The surgery itself it nothing really. What comes afterwards is more painful. Can't really open your mouth too wide, or the wound opens up again. This lasts about 2 / 3 days they say. Could be worse though, I had only one removed, while before they said I needed 3 to get out so I'm not complaining. (:

What's Jamba Juice btw?? O.o
 

PowerBomb

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The surgery itself it nothing really. What comes afterwards is more painful. Can't really open your mouth too wide, or the wound opens up again. This lasts about 2 / 3 days they say. Could be worse though, I had only one removed, while before they said I needed 3 to get out so I'm not complaining. (:

What's Jamba Juice btw?? O.o
Oh, I guess it's a California thing.

I had 4 Wisdom Teeth removed at the same time >_>
 

WhatIsRaizen?

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Win = +1. Loss = -1. Draw = no change.

Current Match-Up:
JIGGLYPUFF Vs.
KIRBY


Jigglypuff Vs. Kirby

:jigglypuff: vs. :kirby:

Loser's Round 6, Match 8.

Overall Results

Wins +6:

:ganondorf:, :samus2:

Wins +5:

:ike:

Wins +4:


Wins +3:

:ness2:, :fox:, :bowser2:, :luigi2:

Wins +2:

:sonic:, :peach:, :metaknight:, :pt:, :lucas:

Wins +1:

:mewtwo:, :mario2:, :toonlink:, :younglinkmelee:, :wolf:, :lucario:, :dk2:

Neutral:

:pichu:, :diddy:, :snake:, :falco:

Loss -1:

:wario:, :kirby2:, :pit:, :falcon:, :marth:

Loss -2:

:jigglypuff:, :link2:, :pikachu:

Loss -3:

:dedede:, :zerosuitsamus:, yoshi2:

Loss -4:

:gw:, :zelda:, :roymelee:

Loss -5:

Loss -6:

:rob:, :popo:, :olimar:

Vs.
 

JOE!

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kirby

seriously raizen, theres are so many MU's like this that could be swept past by doing a sweep per char "does X beat a,b,c,d,e,f?", alot of Mus like this really dont need discussion...
 

JOE!

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Well, there wouldn't be any fun in doing that, would there?
At the same time, what fun is there posting MUs like yoshi vs Olimar where it is PAINFULLY obvious who wins, and the discussion would be 1-2 posts?

just for example (brings out my bat and dead horse), essentially everyone so far vs ganondorf. Only wielders of master-sword / stuff like that, or with invulnerability can actually contend with him AT BEST, that rules out sooooo many fighters vs him right off the bat....


catch my drift?
 

Ganonsburg

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Man oh man, I am so glad I can't see Clinton's posts right now, because JOE!'s comment is going to have him writing some sort of novel or trilogy or something.

:034:
 

Diddy Kong

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Marth, Link, Ike and Young Link should beat Ganondorf. Maybe Ness and Lucas to, but I'm not too sure yet.

Kirby should win btw.
 

PowerBomb

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Why should Marth beat Ganny? He can canonically beat Link >_>

Only reason Link ever beats Ganny is because everyone else helps him.
 
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