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Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

Diddy Kong

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Yeah but I don't get the link really.. Is this game supposed to be somehow related to WW's story? It just makes me wonder why you know... Everybody pretty much loved TP's graphics, why didn't they just continue with them?

**** it though, DKC > all. :D
 

Ganonsburg

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Yeah but I don't get the link really.. Is this game supposed to be somehow related to WW's story? It just makes me wonder why you know... Everybody pretty much loved TP's graphics, why didn't they just continue with them?

**** it though, DKC > all. :D
Apparently the Skyward Sword will become the Master Sword later in the game, placing it before OoT.

I agree that DKC looks pretty cool. I never got the chance to play the original.

:034:
 

-Coco-

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A tie would be the best answer I guess based off what is known about Weegee anyway, even though canon wise he has by far more power than any of the other star children. Canon wise Mario and Luigi have saved each other a good number of times as well, so no to saying that Luigi wins just because canon wise he has a major game where he saves Mario from a bunch of boos (which btw really shows off how powerful boos can be, **** pokemon ghosts even if they are by far some of the biggest nightmare fuel pokemon, King Boo would destroy them all).

I think the edge goes to Mario just because of the Paper Mario games where he held the different badges I guess it could be argued that Luigi would be able to do the same but even then if you bring up an example like the Mario and Luigi series even then there were badges that were exclusive to each bro so idk a tied I can see but I'm not sure <.<

Edit: It was the pants in the M&L series that were exclusive not the badges my mistake xD
 

Diddy Kong

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Apparently the Skyward Sword will become the Master Sword later in the game, placing it before OoT.

I agree that DKC looks pretty cool. I never got the chance to play the original.

:034:
Yeah I was kinda hoping that we got to play as the Hero of Time as shown in tWW after I saw the cel shadedness, so apperantly it's true then? So it's Skyward Sword > Ocarina of Time > Wind Waker now?

And how come you didn't play DKC? O_O Seriously, pick the series up as soon as you can. DKC2 indeed IS the best out of the series by a lot, but I think you should play all. You'll beat DKC1 pretty quick anyway.
 

Ganonsburg

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Yeah I was kinda hoping that we got to play as the Hero of Time as shown in tWW after I saw the cel shadedness, so apperantly it's true then? So it's Skyward Sword > Ocarina of Time > Wind Waker now?

And how come you didn't play DKC? O_O Seriously, pick the series up as soon as you can. DKC2 indeed IS the best out of the series by a lot, but I think you should play all. You'll beat DKC1 pretty quick anyway.
http://kotaku.com/5564576/live-from-nintendos-e3-briefing

I didn't play DKC because I never had the system. My family was kind of (really) slow getting into computers and such, and the only reason we started with consoles (our first was a Gamecube, only a year or two before the Wii came out) was because my mom liked the look of DDR. But I got to watch my cousins play it occasionally when we visited them every few years, and I always liked watching them play it.

:034:
 

Diddy Kong

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Apperantly DKC4 will have the same sort of health system as DKC. Looks like I can't win this DK vs Wario anymore now. *roll eyes* Couldn't care less anymore though, seeing as theres a ****ING DKC4 BEING MADE! (:

Topic related: Mario likely will beat a big ammount of the cast. Imo Mario < Mewtwo, Ganondorf, Samus, Ness, Lucas, Fox, Falco, Wolf (not sure about the space animals though, but likely yes) and probably Bowser. I considered Marth, but Mario could most likely OHKO him anyway with a Mega Mushroom or something, so no.
 

PowerBomb

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I saw the cel-shaded Link. OoT Cel-shaded. Doesn't look terrible. Nice on the eyes.

Now Epic Yarn on the other hand... truly looks epic. That art style is so hilarious it's good.

k back to business guys
 

Ganonsburg

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Mario vs:

-1) Bowser - Lose
+2) Captain Falcon - Win
+3) Diddy Kong - Win
+4) Donkey Kong - Win
-5) Falco - Lose
-6) Fox - Lose
-7) Ganon - Lose.
+8) Ice Climbers - Win.
+9) Ike - Win
+10) Jiggly Puff - Win
+11) King Dedede - Win
+12) Kirby - Win
+13) Lucario - Win
-14) Lucas - Lose
/15) Luigi - Tie
/16) Mario - N/A
+17) Marth - Win
+18) Metaknight - Win
-19) Mewtwo - Lose
+20) Mr. Game & Watch - Win
-21) Ness - Lose
+22) Ocarina of Time (OoT) Link - Win
+23) Olimar - Win
+24) Peach - Win
+25) Pichu - Win
+26) Pikachu - Win
+27) Pit - Win
+28) Pokemon Trainer - Win
+29) R.O.B. - Win
+30) Roy - Win
-31) Samus - Lose
+32) Snake - Win
-33) Sonic - Win
+34) Toon Link - Win
+35) Twilight Princess (TP) Link - Win
+36) Wario - Win
-37) Wolf - Lose
+38) Yoshi - Win
+39) Young Link - Win
+40) Zelda - Win
+41) Zero Suit Samus - Win

Win: 29 (29 x +1 = +29)
Lose: 10 (10 x -1 = -10)
Tie: 1 (1 x 0 = 0)
Undetermined: 0 (0 x 0 = 0)
Total: 40 ( sum = +19)

I agree with this mostly, but would like people to check it and especially take note on:
Space Animals
Luigi
Bowser
Earthbound Boys
Ike
Pokemon (Mewtwo and Pokemon Trainer specifically)
Sonic

:034:
 

_clinton

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Dr. Andonuts' office is BS IMO, overall though I'm ok with a "new Lufia," a new Mortal Kombat, and some other things of course like DKCR (although I would like it if there was more than just DK and Diddy as PCs, and some other things of course, but whatever).

GnG: Gold Knights looks cool as well, even if it is on the iPhone.

Apperantly DKC4 will have the same sort of health system as DKC.
If you count DK and Diddy seemly taking 2 hits as the same, then yes it does have the same system (which is BS, the two hit system that is, but whatever)

Topic related: Mario likely will beat a big ammount of the cast. Imo Mario < Mewtwo, Ganondorf, Samus, Ness, Lucas, Fox, Falco, Wolf (not sure about the space animals though, but likely yes) and probably Bowser.
Ok, while I'm still saying the same things about Samus and Ganondorf and how it is BS how they "win."

BS "plot coupon" and BS "invulnerability" are funny, even though Mario has them in spades, really I want to know why Mario's "star power" isn't a match for Ganondorf who doesn't even have "1/3rd of a full god's power" canon wise? And why is Samus so called unstoppable when in Phazon and speed booster even though the games certainly don't support that notion with the game play?

I also really want to know why you think Fox, Falco, and Wolf would win, when Mario can just use some of his star power and blow them out of the sky or something else that is long range, and on ground them having guns is still an issue for someone who also has even more long ranged attacks still. lol at a tank, Mario has sent stuff like that back at the tank firing it (like for example in SMG2).

Cloaking devices, and jet packs won't work that well as well IMO. Oh and how come Wario isn't on that list as well? Sense his 1st appearance canon wise he has gotten a lot stronger (plus Mario is the reason why Wario doesn’t like him canon wise anyway but whatever).

I considered Marth, but Mario could most likely OHKO him anyway with a Mega Mushroom or something, so no.
Oh and let us not forget about the other 50 or so power ups Mario has that have a large focus on offense up close.
 

Diddy Kong

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I'm just recalling the final fight of TP here now, and yes... I think unfortunatly Ganondorf really cannot be killed. At least, not by things that do not directly repel evil. Yes, he can be defeated. But not killed. So unless the other character he's facing here owns him so badly that he can't do anything, he'll win.

I've recently played FE:Radiant Dawn again, and I still think that Ike > Marth, but only slightly. For now. Marth has no answer to Aether, so eventually Ike would beat him.
 

_clinton

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I'm just recalling the final fight of TP here now, and yes... I think unfortunatly Ganondorf really cannot be killed. At least, not by things that do not directly repel evil.
So, how does Mario not have something that wouldn't "repel evil?"

How is the fact that he does canon wise have access to both a sort of "god power" in several of his games and that he himself is linked to a "god power" because of what a "star child" is defined to be canon wise is not a source of something that wouldn't "repel evil?"

Having a special tool with the words: this thing "Repels evil or is holy based" really only seems to matter if you are mortal IMO, or are you really saying that if the "gods of Hyrule" for example didn't have something like the "master sword" at their hands "right away" they themselves couldn't beat Ganondorf or something?

Really why does having a tool to "repel evil" matter if you have attained some sort of "god hood" in some way or have another tool like it that makes you a threat to such a thing? (Which is really what the master sword does do btw, nullify powers up to limited "god" powers if they are in misuse, adding on to the natural semi god power Link has, it really is no wonder why a little "elf" child ****s Ganondorf 9 times out of 10 all the time)

I'm pretty sure someone who has pretty much defined himself as a "demigod" or something like it at least canon wise like Mario has (in case you don't see my point) would make short work of Ganondorf, who is 100% mortal w/o the triforce of power (which I'm aware that him having that makes him sort of a "demigod" as well, but unlike Mario's case, he certainly doesn't have as many impressive uses of that power, and it isn't natural like Mario's as well).

Again, the ToP is if anything a very small amount of god power really, I mean does anyone here really think it has Din's "full power" in it? Please speak up if you do, I'm more than willing to kindly debate with you on why that isn't so logically.

Yes, he can be defeated. But not killed.
He has been killed canon wise more than 3 times (because of the split timeline it really is funny like that).

The 1st Zelda
LttP
OoA/OoS
WW
TP

Plus again, there are plenty of foes canon wise in the Zelda series itself who would make short work of Ganondorf logically as well. Again why would Majora lose?

I've recently played FE:Radiant Dawn again, and I still think that Ike > Marth, but only slightly. For now. Marth has no answer to Aether, so eventually Ike would beat him.
Why again does Aether matter when time line that made the FE games only "makes" Ike look better than Marth? Again, I'm saying that game mech. wise all of the FE characters seem sort of limited in a way just off of 1st looks (you have to love how they just "take turns" attacking each other in case you don't get my point), but Marth is worse off when talking about them because of the time his games were made it seems.

However, what makes you think Marth's orbs wouldn't protect him from Ike's special skills? There are skills in FE that turn off Ike's Aether, why wouldn't the orbs at least nullify it, which are pretty much designed to protect, not turn off Aether or some other offensive skills? They have been shown to null critical hits and the like as well you know, and they do also pump up the dodge and hit rate of Marth, so why wouldn't they maybe stop Ike's special which already canon wise has a semi-low chance of activating (which if anything is also showing that it is hard to "set up" in a real setting, besides of course preventing the game from being too easy to beat).

They are both trained swordsman still though, and they still seem to have defensive skills of some sort.
 

PowerBomb

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If Mewtwo's Embargo can act quick enough and can sustain itself...

PT always loses to AoE attacks. If something hits PT, he dies. Rather easily, if I may add. Again, he's only a 10 year old kid. Most of the attacks these characters have are more than enough to shut down and destroy PT.
 

Ganonsburg

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If Mewtwo's Embargo can act quick enough and can sustain itself...

PT always loses to AoE attacks. If something hits PT, he dies. Rather easily, if I may add. Again, he's only a 10 year old kid. Most of the attacks these characters have are more than enough to shut down and destroy PT.
Alright, I was just thinking that if Mewtwo could win against Mario, then PT should be able to because PT may have Mewtwo on his team. However, I forgot about how vulnerable PT is.

Do any of you know whether Ganon will feature in this new game?
We don't know for certain yet, although I'd bet that he's not. Although, if the Triforce is mentioned before we're told whether he's in it or not, I'd say it's a safe bet that he's there. The Triforce and the Master Sword in a game have always meant Ganon is also there. But with just the Master Sword so far, I'd say Nintendo will probably have a different villain.

:034:
 

_clinton

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Why am I the only one who finds it easy for PT to command his pokemon to protect him again? He can clearly order two around on the field for starters without any trouble if double battles are canon. Plus keep in mind that while he is a kid, canon wise he is a very "special" pokemon trainer (as in he is a prodigy at it usually or "something" based off what the games show). Is it that hard to see that canon wise he is dealing with "the mob," or insane cults filled with people who canon wise are using pokemon to **** up things, they clearly are using their pokemon to **** with people as you can see in the games, what would stop them from using them to hurt someone? The games do clearly give that feeling off very well.

Plus several pokemon are clearly dangerous as well, not all of them are willing to "the trainer's friend" if you get my drift. Not all of them are cute little woodland creatures like Pikachu, Pichu, or Jigglypuff. Just because a beginning trainer's 1st pokemon is suppose to be "easy to train, a very small real threat to the trainer if he screws up, and is pretty much a pet" doesn't mean that all of them are nice.

You can even see just how long some people take to become better trainers if you look at the types of trainers you face. If the pokemon world is accurate, than a person gets his 1st pokemon when he is 10 years old. So you see your youngsters (clearly the same age as the trainer) with little rats, bugs, and the like. However then later as you go on you see your "cool trainers" (who are clearly older btw) with a "50 foot dragon" or a thing that has been known to destroy cities and the like if it is out of control. Yet this "special trainer" which is to be your main character who is only 10 because the game gives no hint at real aging except across other games beats them at it.
 

Lord Viper

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Only Kirby characters Mario have a chance to win against would be King Dedede. Kirby and Meta Knight overpower Mario if you focus on Kirby Super Star/Ultra or Squeak Squad.
 

Lord Viper

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It would really depend on the battle. Which Mario is being used, his platforming or his RPGs? Or has the rules changed... anyways, Meta Knight moves too fast for Mario to react or avoid, not to mention Meta Knight using Mach Tornado in battle. >.<

Kirby's case, he can switch to the right ability to fight at will. Or just inhale what ever item Mario is going to use.
 

Diddy Kong

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That's... actually pretty smart. O_O Kirby COULD eat Mario's items right?
 

_clinton

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It would really depend on the battle. Which Mario is being used, his platforming or his RPGs? Or has the rules changed... anyways, Meta Knight moves too fast for Mario to react or avoid, not to mention Meta Knight using Mach Tornado in battle. >.<
How does MK move to fast for Mario to handle? Mario is thrown through the universe at super high speeds and can handle those speeds just fine. Plus in general the amount of land Mario can cover in such a short time shows that he has super speed as well, and the games give clear hints at him having super speed as well based off what various NPCs say about Mario. You have to love how there is always a certain NPC in the Mario games who is known for having super speed/super athlete skills, yet Mario beats them.

I really shouldn't have to bring this up as much as I do in this thread, because how on earth do you people think Mario could jump like he does (oh and the amount of control he has over his air time as well) if he didn't have super speed on top of that super strength he has?

Plus Mario is always dealing with timed missions as well that require him to cover huge amounts of ground in a short amount of time in the games (SMS he has to save a huge number of NPCs pretty much located around a town from the "goop" of that game more than once, and SMG pretty much has a huge number of timed missions in it as well).

And no at a tornado or "high speed spin that to the point where it creates a tornado" being a threat to Mario, Mario has been using tornadoes as a mere platforming gimmick sense super Mario Brothers 3, but it is very clear in SMG 1&2 on how he can use them as well.

Personally, I want to know just how long it will take for Mario to use that hammer of his and break MK's mask off.

Kirby's case, he can switch to the right ability to fight at will. Or just inhale what ever item Mario is going to use.
Mario can switch his ability at will as well actually, granted I don't know if Mario's "bag of holding" is like Kirby's with his stomach, but overall for the most part Mario has never really had an issue with holding items compared to when they are needed.

Plus Mario has been shown to eat certain power ups such as mushrooms and flowers in order to unlock there use in game (Mario & Luigi RPG show it, SMG shows it with NPC text), so if Kirby was going to try and steal a power up from Mario, he really only has a small limited time of which to do it.

On that note, I'm pretty sure Mario's spin attack would chances are destroy some of Kirby's abilities as well, such as fire and ice, because Mario has been seen using that spin attack in such games as SMG to remove various hazards and also to rip things out of the ground/pull things closer to him.

So why wouldn't Mario steal Kirby's sword or something like that with the amount of force Mario has been shown to use with his spin attack that he pretty much makes tornadoes a tool for him to use? Kirby certainly isn't immune to him having his powers robbed from him in case the games haven't made that clear with each one having a power stealing foe sense KDL2 (oh and the amount of force needed to make Kirby drop the power certainly isn't an issue as well).
 

warpd

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pfft. Forget close range combat all Kirby needs his warp star and the laser ability. The spin attack can't block lasers. Long range camping ftw. Mario is stated to be fast, but he is not super-sonic speed fast. Besides those NPC's tend to exaggerate everything. The speeds that Mario attains in SMG is not his own ability. MK is stated to be fast and have teleporting abilities that he can use in battle.

If what I heard is correct, Kirby can't die in his next game. Course he is made of some epic yarn.
 

REL38

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Mario isn't fast all that fast

"Running through mountain ranges" on the home world map hardly means the 20 seconds he took in the level equals the entire mountain range

He only runs a small portion of the area, being the level, and winning means you bypass the entire area


Airtime control is achieved by various characters and isn't very notable


Just to add, Mach tornado =/= wind tornados
 

_clinton

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pfft. Forget close range combat all Kirby needs his warp star and the laser ability.
Right, because Mario also himself doesn't have about 50 or so vehicles for long range combat or a good long range game in general with just items, he has vehicles such as this btw:

http://www.mariowiki.com/Sky_Pop

He pretty much out flew an entire army of war machines and the like with that, I'd say Mario is pretty formidable in the air with the right stuff.

So, why can't Mario just fire off a ton of star bits at Kirby if he tries to camp and why can't Mario just take out some of the other 50 or so long range weapons he has?

http://www.mariowiki.com/Star_Bits
http://www.mariowiki.com/Shooting_Star_(Paper_Mario)
http://www.mariowiki.com/Art_Attack
http://www.mariowiki.com/Supernova

Just to name a few.

Really, what is with this thread and you guys thinking characters like Mario and Wario don't have range?

The spin attack can't block lasers.
Maybe not, but Mario certainly has ways of avoiding them effortlessly as he blasts Kirby away.

Mario is stated to be fast, but he is not super-sonic speed fast. Besides those NPC's tend to exaggerate everything.
Right, he totally has no examples of super human speed at all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyMprtCs8g4&playnext_from=TL&videos=J8TdkL8HTUU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INOk78OBsNM&playnext_from=TL&videos=I4UZkivHK_Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3leV4BiKrF8&playnext_from=TL&videos=6J_jxDgDhW4

The speeds that Mario attains in SMG is not his own ability.
Yes, because a star child becoming a form of energy for him at a certain spot and then him controlling that said energy to allow him to fly and stuff is still not an impressive feet. You have to love how the toads are unable to use that energy as well and have a space ship they are using instead. In fact, the toads can't use Mario's power ups as well according to SMG, except in some ****ed up cases like NSMBW.

He also seems perfectly ok after flying into walls, rocks, and the like as well just off of him using that super speed flying. Bowser is able to use that energy as well, and Luigi can, in fact again have you not noticed how the 7 star children (except for DK so far) can use it? SM64 really makes this clear as well with who can use it, considering how the power of the castle is pretty much also the same as the energy in SMG.

Also, speaking about Mario's skills a bit and how the player really seems limited on purpose except for when Mario is in a cut scene or something; I'd like to talk about Mario's jump, it isn't like Mario hasn't shown super jump skills in like 50 of his other games, I mean an easy example would be to just look at the sewer system at Isle Delfino's plaza, ever notice just how much hang time Mario gets from jumping out of some of those drains?

But, have you noticed how they really like to limit your jump in game play by comparison? I certainly have.

MK is stated to be fast and have teleporting abilities that he can use in battle.
Mario has dealt with fast, teleporting foes before as well. Bowser certainly fits the description for starters, but there are by far more.

BTW you are aware that one of the main features of various Mario RPGs is that Mario dodges attacks right? Just saying the list of teleporting fast foes from those games hits a large number.

If what I heard is correct, Kirby can't die in his next game. Course he is made of some epic yarn.
I can't tell if you are trying to be serious and present this as an actual point or are just joking around.

Mario isn't fast all that fast

"Running through mountain ranges" on the home world map hardly means the 20 seconds he took in the level equals the entire mountain range
It took him less than three minutes to save an entire large village of people from Bowser Jr. dumping fire goop on them in Super Mario Sunshine, while he is carting around like a ton of water on his back or something like that (FLUDD) because for some odd reason FLUDD won't just go into Mario's pocket like the rest of his power ups.

He only runs a small portion of the area, being the level, and winning means you bypass the entire area
Really, how are they “small portions?” Entire armies are located on each one of them.

YI itself in SMW is only divided into like 7 levels as well (Yoshi’s house, the plains, a mountain climb to a hidden switch palace, another mountain area, a lake, and a castle) considering how that is the 1st “world” of the game and Mario is trying to locate Bowser’s hideout in the 1st place (which pretty much means he would be searching well, which pretty much bypasses your whole idea of “small portions of land” as well considering how Bowser has been known to hide away in different dimensions, and in SMW he hid under the ocean).

Looking at the 2nd level of SMW itself shows that Mario is clearly covering a large stretch of land as well.

I’d say exploring an entire island in about “7 moves” is pretty impressive.

The games also have him doing things like traveling to multiple planets in just a single level for SMG, fighting armies of people packing equipment for war, which includes large air ships such as SMB3 (really, SMB3 pretty much is across the entire Mushroom World), exploring multiple dimensions (SM64 paintings), and doing it pretty much by himself minus help from some people like Luigi sometimes isn’t an example of fast work?

Oh and the real time for this is also shown as short, but that is another issue.

Airtime control is achieved by various characters and isn't very notable
I don’t know, I’d say Cloud Mario has pretty darn good control over said stuff like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv4aHaFDQr0&feature=related

Just to add, Mach tornado =/= wind tornados
Yes, instead it is just him spinning around really fast and slowly dropping, because Mario doesn’t have a spin attack as well that is like that to a point (he has been using it sense SMW) only it is done with his fists that break through walls w/o much effort. SMS is a fun game btw (those videos I showed, they are awesome).

Oh and I’m aware that Mach Tornado isn’t a “tornado,” but MK has made tornadoes with his powers, so I was just covering that because it seems like that was a by far better ability than just spinning around a lot.

On another note Sonic can make them as well w/o his super form.
 

Diddy Kong

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Mario is real difficult to estimate, but a jump on the head powered by the Mega Mushroom is gonna hurt. It defeated Bowser in 3 hits in NSMB DS (though it didn't kill him) yet, it's a pretty straight forward attack, and highly predictable. Mario in general doesn't really have any specific powerful abilty that I can think of and it seems to me Meta Knight could beat him as well.
 

-Coco-

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Mario is real difficult to estimate, but a jump on the head powered by the Mega Mushroom is gonna hurt. It defeated Bowser in 3 hits in NSMB DS (though it didn't kill him) yet, it's a pretty straight forward attack, and highly predictable. Mario in general doesn't really have any specific powerful abilty that I can think of and it seems to me Meta Knight could beat him as well.
yet _Clinton has listed on several pages what Mario is capable of even though he prefers chaacters from the Mother series if you're gonna bother to even participate please look at previous pages instead of saying things like Mario in general doesn't really have any specific powerful abilty that I can think of and it seems to me Meta Knight could beat him as well" <_<
 

JOE!

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_clinton also stated Mario to have super speed while showing him slide around a tiny village as proof
 

-Coco-

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_clinton also stated Mario to have super speed while showing him slide around a tiny village as proof
And the Mario 64 speed run which he covered vast land and the SMW reference which again is impressive. He makes valid points reguardless of how you feel of the village part.


And the rocket nozzle allows super speed as well ^_^


Edit: meant turbo nozzle
 

ElPanandero

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ElPanandero
Why am I the only one who finds it easy for PT to command his pokemon to protect him again?
I've been saying that since I joined the Thread...though i vaguely recall you arguing it against me...then again I think I see you arguing everything when I think of this thread. Anywho, PT has plenty of pokemon with plenty of moves to defend himself.

As for the Maio Match-ups, I'd say he's considerably fast, maybe on Par with Meta (Though I haven't seen Meta's speed in game). Think of his feet when he gets running in SMW and the 2D games after that. While that isn't really a measure of speed per se, I think it's supposed to give the impression of speed, while still allowing the game to be played.
 

warpd

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The speed and power of Kirby's power star is severly underestimated. Kirby could fly across the universe with ease with it. Those projectiles that Mario throws at Kirby could be thrown right back at him, you know the whole swallow and spit back thing is kind of Kirby's basic power. Switching between laser and rock would work for offensive and defensive abilities.

It was an E3 demo, I hope it is not that way in the real game. Unless they make simular to a Wario game.
 

PowerBomb

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_clinton, what do you mean with the various Team's Pokemon ****ing stuff up? The individual team members are such trash. Since this is technically Red from RBY/FrLg, the Team he would've defeated is Team Rocket, most of whom have Ratata, Ekans, and Zubat. Giovanni might have stronger Pokemon capable of doing stuff (such as Rhyhorn/Nidoking), but the grunts are pathetic.

Plus, in HGSS, even the executives are all like 'Ohey, you defeated my Pokemon, here's your key/password to something'.

Not very dangerous imo.

EDIT: PT vs. Mario. Why can't Mario just do an AoE attack and kill PT on the spot?
 

ElPanandero

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Don't mean to be ignorant, but What Area of Attack Move(s) does Mario have? And Teleport stalling for the win.
 

JOE!

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And the Mario 64 speed run which he covered vast land and the SMW reference which again is impressive. He makes valid points reguardless of how you feel of the village part.


And the rocket nozzle allows super speed as well ^_^
that is NOT super speed.

get back to me when it is hard to actually see the landscape go by and we'll talk
 

ElPanandero

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ElPanandero
Ture while it he is faster than given credit for, I don't think ti's super speed.
 

warpd

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It's more like super agility than super speed. Mario keeps his momentum allowing for most of his stunts.
 

_clinton

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yet _Clinton has listed on several pages what Mario is capable of even though he prefers chaacters from the Mother series if you're gonna bother to even participate please look at previous pages instead of saying things like Mario in general doesn't really have any specific powerful abilty that I can think of and it seems to me Meta Knight could beat him as well" <_<
I find it funny that JOE thinks Mario hopping around a “small” village like I showed in those videos and saving the population in less than 3 minutes isn’t impressive, of course I can just add it to the list of what JOE thinks in general that I find to be funny because he completely just chose one small part of my argument and then said it was all bad, which of course I’m adding to the big list as well.

Still, how is something like this little 38 seconds of play not impressive?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INOk78OBsNM&playnext_from=TL&videos=ab9KgsiFJug

Oh and the village is directly stated to be on one of the largest single structures on the island. As in a huge ****ing tree, that from looking at the game’s Island Map you can see it is pretty much “length wise” around the size of that small island that is holding that amusement park there or that volcano where Bowser is hanging out, so I hardly consider a “small” village to be on that tree. After all, the village is built on a “huge giant ancient tree.”

Which is another thing, that tree would die if the shine spirits weren’t around, in fact that entire Island is ****ed without them in case the game doesn’t make that clear in the 1st 10 minutes of play. So, things like how main part of the population on that island have mini “trees” growing on their heads as well, and they argue about which one is “bigger” a lot as well. You can really see what their life is about huh?

Of course, the danger of the island without the shine spirits still doesn’t excuse the Kangaroo Court System they have on the Island and how the islanders are a bunch of ****ers in general (“I’m a chuckster!”).

And the rocket nozzle allows super speed as well ^_^
I wouldn't count that in a Mario vs. something because of FLUDD being a separate character completely, even if it is still a tool.

Of course, if you want an example of just how good Mario is with his tools and items, then you really don’t have to look far, I mean find me a better example than FLUDD really fast. ^_^

Just look at what he can do with FLUDD, the entire game of SMS is pretty much build based off how Mario uses FLUDD and the game still shows that Mario is quite capable without FLUDD in that game, because FLUDD is taken from Mario every now and then as well such as what that 38 second video shows. Really the speed boost that allows Mario to run on water really isn’t that off from what he can already use in the game.

...though i vaguely recall you arguing it against me...
You think me, the guy who has been in support of the non-BS examples of the pokedex (because a lot of them are used in the pokemon game’s story and some other things like how not all of them are made to be complete BS) has been saying that the trainer has no control over his pokemon?

Anywho, PT has plenty of pokemon with plenty of moves to defend himself.
And Mario has plenty of ways to attack and defend himself with as well,
which is why I have issues with Mario vs. PT.

As for the Maio Match-ups, I'd say he's considerably fast, maybe on Par with Meta (Though I haven't seen Meta's speed in game).
MK’s speed is hard to judge actually, which I also blame on things like Kirby Air Ride and how that game puts 30 some odd MPH as a good racing time.

While that isn't really a measure of speed per se, I think it's supposed to give the impression of speed, while still allowing the game to be played.
Which is what I think because it is common as **** in games in general really. It is funny how games like Sonic do that as well with so many things like bullets being showed and the like as well.

Yet no one complains about that, which is funny because when it comes to Mario I’m sure it is in truth just because a large number of people have a perception of Mario always being the “average stat character” in so many things despite so many games clearly not showing him as average is the real reason for this (I'm temped right now to post a certain music video of Average Man).

**** I’ve seen posts in this thread putting into question stuff like his super strength, durability, and even his jumping as well (which again would go hand in hand with super speed btw) in this thread so far.

Of course I guess this isn't this threads fault, after all Nintendo hasn't really said anything about Mario's abilities in pretty much anything, even the jump info is pretty limited. Really the only game I've seen talk about Mario's ability is in SMRPG:Lot7S, and that game isn't even made by Nintendo for starters (oh and it is trying to be funny as well).

Still, there are all sorts of other things showing off how agile and fast Mario is (again with certain foes as well), but only Sonic is counted out of these two because of his games are so based on speed gameplay to the point where they can’t work right as well how about that?

Which is funny because some of the certain games he has after all such as the M&L RPGs has him for the gameplay dodging attacks before he gets a single attack and the like, or countering foes as well when they are attacking, which is just to show off how fast he is really as well (and because someone at Nintendo hates basic RPGs). And of course his durability, super strength, and so on comes up as well with just examples (but those are easier to defend still).

The speed and power of Kirby's power star is severly underestimated. Kirby could fly across the universe with ease with it.
The powers linked to Mario have allowed him to travel large landscapes as well, such as traveling the worlds of his full universe as well as a large number of different dimensions linked to it as well and all at ease as well.

Those projectiles that Mario throws at Kirby could be thrown right back at him, you know the whole swallow and spit back thing is kind of Kirby's basic power.
You think Mario has never thrown projectiles back at foes as well even though I sort of brought it up almost right away at the start of this?

Of course on this case I also just want to know why you think Mario couldn’t just recover thrown back star bits? I mean they are sort of always just being flung around the universe anyway and they sort of just drawn to Mario anyway.

Switching between laser and rock would work for offensive and defensive abilities.
Funny how Mario can be offensive while being defensive as well just with his power ups and items in general. Of course I want to know why you think Kirby is going to be switching so much so fast as well?

Since this is technically Red from RBY/FrLg
No, I’m pretty sure the “trainer” we are talking about is not really “Red” from RBY/FrLg, this is because SSBB is just mainly showing him off because he is the main “symbol” of a “Pokemon Trainer” in the 1st place (who btw that symbol in the 1st place is suppose to be mainly “you” as well, as in the player).

So, in truth we are just talking about a “symbol” for this character, a large symbol of it in fact, which really opens up the stuff we can talk about. I mean he certainly isn’t the only symbol in this game, but it is a big one.

Anyway to end this, after this for some reason if you still think the trainer in SSBB is not just being a “symbol” and you still think we are to take a direct approach to this with the trainer, then we might as well just make it so he is only using a certain 3 pokemon as well that are being used in SSBB (because in case I need to remind you again, those three are also a large “symbol” in this case for the series as well).

Of course If we do that, at least it will become a lot ****ing easier to talk about the matches with the trainer at least. It will be wrong because the basic principle of the trainer is off, but the matches will be easier.

Oh and if we are to use the canon example of Red (as in to go ½ way off with this symbol instead of fully off and say it is Red, but the trainer in SSBB isn’t his true self of course), we would be best to look at the Pokemon Special Manga as well and not just the games as well, just saying. The Manga does a better job at showing off Team Rocket IMO as well.

Plus, in HGSS, even the executives are all like 'Ohey, you defeated my Pokemon, here's your key/password to something'.
Are you saying you wouldn’t give the key to the “lone solo guy” after he just pretty much did the equivalent to our world of disarming you fully and now his pokemon…his weapons…his death machines are now on you?

Not very dangerous imo.
You know, just because the 1st encounters with them always being the weakest of the group (it is even said that they are really) doesn't mean they never get better. I mean the last area in the 1st gen, 3rd remakes show that they have plenty of good trainers as well.

EDIT: PT vs. Mario. Why can't Mario just do an AoE attack and kill PT on the spot?
Chances are probably for the same reason that a pokemon flash flooding the field, or causing an earthquake on the field doesn’t kill the trainer.

Hello Gentlemen.
Hiya, how is it going? ^_^
 

PowerBomb

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'Blastoise used Surf! The attack missed!' Possibly something like that. And an Earthquake doesn't always have to kill something. I feel like an *** for saying this, but despite many people getting injured/the death toll on the Haiti EQ, some people survived. Isn't it mostly falling debris? Unless the ground cracks open beneath PT's feet, it's not like he's getting hit by it...

Surf though, is another matter. Explosion possibly has a radius. Discharge... bleah I dunno. The only thing I can think of is in Pokemon battles the Pokemon don't aim for the trainers on purpose.
 
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