Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[Rkey]

Sorry, didn't mean to be exclusive.

I don't think Wolf has any means of hurting ganondorf (can't ganon heal himself too?), therefore he'd have to run/stall the whole match. This is like sonic vs. ike. Sonic is way too fast for ike to catch, but since sonic can't actually hurt ike, he lost the match. Correct me if I'm wrong, im no ganon expert.

Still going for no ring count super sonic btw. The emeralds can't be drained in these matchups, and they have not been shown to run out unless someone specifically drained them. He has also shown that he doesn't need to continue to collect rings to maintain his super form or start it.

Thanks man, that was a really contructive answer, thanks again : )

Thank you too Diddy Kong ; )

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Vs.

Current Match-Up:
THE STAR FOX Vs. THE STAR PUFF

Fox Vs. Kirby

Vs.

Round 4, Match 6.

Who will win? YOU decide!

Overall Results

Wins +4:

,

Wins +3:

, ,

Wins +2:

, :mewtwo:,

Wins +1:

, , , , ,

Neutral:

, , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Loss -1:



Loss -2:

, , , , ichu:, ,

Loss -3:

,

Loss -4:

,

Does this guy have a trophy?

 

[missingnomaster]

Hmm, Metal Kirby on a Warp Star comes to mind, though it might get shot down fairly often... Fox can otherwise stay way out of Kirby's range though, while being able to shoot at him.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Maybe Fox stands a better chance without his Arwing this time around. It'd be easier for Fox to locate Kirby and shoot him faster if he's using his regular weapons like the Blaster. Dunno much about Star Fox Assault and it's weapons, but Fox could use those against Kirby. There's also the LANDMASTAAAAAA...

Otherwise, I could see Kirby winning this as well. Crash would do good damage against Fox, with or without Arwing. Kirby probably could take some hits from Fox, but what answer does Fox have against Crash? How many abilities can Kirby carry along with him?

EDIT: Oh and no problem Rkey.

 

[BSP]

That would depend on who he's fighting. ;p



Kirby Squeak Squad Magic Roulette goes very fast, all you have to do is press a button and it will instantly activate.

I find something odd on the Sonic vs Kirby debate that Sonic won because the rest of the time Kirby would be stalling. When Sonic runs out of rings from Super Sonic, Kirby can just switch to another Ability and attack him depending on how far or close Sonic is, if Sonic is close he would need Needle, Spark, Freeze, Fireball/Burning Kirby, (Fire Kirby also does Burning attack, but Burning Kirby is also another hat, same with Ice Kirby using Blizzard barrier), or Bomb. If Sonic's far Kirby can use Laser, Plasma, (hope Sonic doesn't face this), UFO. Sonic can't use Time Stop because he doesn't have enough rings to use it because he'll be at zero so he'll have to find more, some know where I'm getting at. XD

Kirby vs Mario confuses me also, on the first post it says Kirby don't have enough options to beat Mario, so I'll just look at the pages where the debate was.

Current debate, I'll get with that. :3

Kirby vs. Sonic

Sonic can get to kirby in less than a second, super or not, and if kirby gets hit, sonic has enough speed to folllow up and finish him. Kirby can start the battle with an ability, correct? If he doesn't start with stone, sonic can transform and then ram him as super sonic. If he starts with stone, sonic can charge at him, and just wait. If kirby goes out of stone and switches abilities to actually attack, he gets frozen in time and gets owned. He really doesnt have a viable option besides stone. Sonic doesnt have to go super if kirby starts with stone.

@Justaway

I'll try to find something to figure out how much power they have, but how would we figure that out? And how long do these matchups last, anyway? Still, unleashed and chronicles show that they have immense energy (possibly infinite, unless tampered with).

One thing to look at are the conditions SS is fighting in. In the fights where he loses a ring per second, he's in extreme conditions, space or being forced to fly so he won't drown. That could very well be why he has a ring count, since it would take more energy to keep sonic safe in those extreme conditions. However, we're on a nuetral battlefield here, meaning SS doesnt even have to fly for most people. Look at my sonic unleashed SS time caclculation below, and he'd be able to go longer than that because he isnt flying here, unlike in unleashed.

Got something: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HyzdULKcO0

Sonic advance ending. Sonic fights eggman's robot, and wins. The player had 15 rings left at the end of the fight, so if the ring count was a true limit, sonic shouldve reverted to normal in 15 seconds. But, a few days later (few is around three IMO, but definitely more than one) he comes down, and he's STILL super sonic. Proves that the ring count is just so the boss isn't too easy. That Should give an idea of how much energy the emeralds have, and sonic still didnt revert back even then. How long do these matches last anyway? Having to stall for a day (or more) should be a win for sonic.

BTW, the rings he gets mid fight are coming from eggman's little robot thing he shoots out. Sonic destroys it, and he gets rings. The rings arent just floating around in space.

Raizen, this is wrong. Sonic's ring max is undefined, it may be over 9000...or infinite, we don't know.

 

[Kewkky]

One more thing. In unleashed, (if my no ring limit fails, this is another option) sonic loses ONE ring per 10 seconds in the wii/PS2 version. With his 999 ring max, this means 9990 minutes of invincibility. Converting to days....Sonic can stay super for 6.94 Days. That has to be some MAJOR stalling if you try to outstall super sonic...that should be a win for sonic.

You did your math wrong, sorry.

1 ring = 10 seconds
999 rings = 9990 seconds
999 rings = 166 minutes and 30 seconds
999 rings = 2 hours and 46 minutes and 30 seconds

 

[Ekul]

Fox has Bomb as an answer to Kirby's Crash. Theoretically, Kirby would be vulnerable during the startup while Fox shot a bomb at him.

 

[PowerBomb]

So how fast does the Arwing fly? What about the Warp Star? I know they're both fast, but how fast?

 

[Kewkky]

Fox has Bomb as an answer to Kirby's Crash. Theoretically, Kirby would be vulnerable during the startup while Fox shot a bomb at him.

Nope, time stops when Kirby activates Crash... And it does MASSIVE damage. His arwing would get badly damaged.

 

[missingnomaster]

Nope, time stops when Kirby activates Crash... And it does MASSIVE damage. His arwing would get badly damaged.

Those time stops were ruled game mechanics and banned ages ago.

 

[REL38]

Candy Pop makes Kirby invincible.

He can spam attacks at ease with that.
Also, Magic Kirby's Roulette stops time as well during usage.

EDIT:

@Missing

Really?
How so?

 

[Kewkky]

Those time stops were ruled game mechanics and banned ages ago.

Ah, didn't know.

Well he keeps a candy pop (or 2-3) in his stomach, uses it when the match starts, and CRAAAASH Fox's arwing.

 

[BSP]

You did your math wrong, sorry.

1 ring = 10 seconds
999 rings = 9990 seconds
999 rings = 166 minutes and 30 seconds
999 rings = 2 hours and 46 minutes and 30 seconds

Oh wow, I failz. But still, that is a long time to stall...

Raizen, is there a time limit on these matches? And what do you think about my no ring count arguement?

Hold the phone : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr6L-oh4tvo breaks 999 at about 7:40

Sonic can carry more than 999 rings...It might be impossible to find his max now...Does he even have a max? This has got to be solid proof...Since sonic has an undefined max of rings now, he can have an undefined time as super sonic...

 

[missingnomaster]

Candy Pop makes Kirby invincible.

He can spam attacks at ease with that.
Also, Magic Kirby's Roulette stops time as well during usage.

EDIT:

@Missing

Really?
How so?

If a power/item stops time without explanation, and the power/item is not said to be able to stop time, then it's pretty obvious that it's just a game mechanic to make the power/item easier to use.

 

[DoonKoon]

How'd Snake lose to Mario...? Snake is really underrated...

and how'd Sonic beat Kirby 0_o if it's cause of invicbiltliy kirby also has that

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Oh wow, I failz. But still, that is a long time to stall...

Raizen, is there a time limit on these matches? And what do you think about my no ring count arguement?

Nope, it'll go on till one character loses, it ends up a tie, or one character is forced to retreat/stall.

And what do you think about my no ring count arguement?

If you mean that it can last longer, then sure, that's fine.

 

[BSP]

How'd Snake lose to Mario...? Snake is really underrated...

and how'd Sonic beat Kirby 0_o if it's cause of invicbiltliy kirby also has that

I explained how Sonic beats kirby, look at my post on the previous page. Though at that time i didnt know sonic could go over 999 rings...he might not have a maximum (infinite super sonic legit now?)

 

[PowerBomb]

iirc, Crash doesn't deal AMAZING damage towards stronger enemies. It will KO all weaker enemies, but mini-bosses don't suffer ZOMG, DAMAGE from it. Of course, the damage depends on which mini-boss you face.

 

[Kewkky]

iirc, Crash doesn't deal AMAZING damage towards stronger enemies. It will KO all weaker enemies, but mini-bosses don't suffer ZOMG, DAMAGE from it. Of course, the damage depends on which mini-boss you face.

Uhh... In Kirby Super star, all mini bosses die in 1 Crash hit if I'm not mistaken... It's the BOSSES that survive, and i usually just go in to bosses with a longer-lasting power anyway, so I havent checked the damage output.

 

[PowerBomb]

Oh, I haven't played Kirby Super Star, just everything after that. If Crash is that powerful and has a huge blast radius, can it down Fox's Arwing in a shot?

 

[BSP]

So have I actually convinced anyone that sonic should get infinite super sonic? First, his ring max is not 999, it's currently undefined ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr6L-oh4tvo ) he clearly breaks 999 in that vid, setting his limit to undefined since there is no casino level in unleashed to keep winning rings to see the max, unless you hacked, but for now, it's undefined, meaning that SS should get unlimited time. Second, he has two games showing that he does not have to constantly collect rings to maintain a super form (unleashed and Chronicles). Third, i mentioned the sonic advance ending, in which sonic remained super for a few days, which is about three IMO, without having rings to collect.

Is that good enough?

 

[REL38]

@Missing

Alright.
Just wanted to see if there was legit reasoning for it.

So have I actually convinced anyone that sonic should get infinite super sonic? First, his ring max is not 999, it's currently undefined ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr6L-oh4tvo ) he clearly breaks 999 in that vid, setting his limit to undefined since there is no casino level in unleashed to keep winning rings to see the max, unless you hacked, but for now, it's undefined, meaning that SS should get unlimited time. Second, he has two games showing that he does not have to constantly collect rings to maintain a super form (unleashed and Chronicles). Third, i mentioned the sonic advance ending, in which sonic remained super for a few days, which is about three IMO, without having rings to collect.

Is that good enough?

I wanna just make something up to make Sonic less broken than he already is, but then I'm remembered how I defended Bowser's Star Rod so I see your reasoning.

I got nothin'
Guess Sonic has unlimited Super.

 

[Samochan]

Kirby is so cute Fox crashes down just to take a closer look at him. =D

Erm....

Spoiler

This is a joke btw.

To me, unlimited invincibility for sonic seems very iffy. How does it work on those sonic games where you get it? I can't imagine sonic could be invincible for unlimited time after you collect rings, that would make a real boring gameplay if you were to just get rings, bam go super sonic, breeze through the game in super like it was nothing. <_> Maybe wikipedia has some answers to this.

Undefined doesn't mean unlimited amount however. I could have undefined amount of money on my pockets and you wouldn't know, but it's not infinitely.

 

[Rkey]

I see that more and more people ask questions about past arguments, and I therefore wish to point out that:

WE WILL NOT SPOONFEED YOU!

The summarized reason to why "this character" defeated "that character" is in the first post, I suggest people read that before asking questions that have already been answered, thank you.

Also, conclusions made earlier which have been established in the thread should be summarized like "game freeze is banned", "Sonic can stay super forever/this ammount of time" etc. to make it easier for more people to participate and reduce the ammount of useless questions.

You are doing a great job with this thread WhatIsRaizen? : )


On the MU, from what I've read now it does seem that fox is winning since he isn't really a "miniboss" who gets killed in one crash, far from it. Kirby has no other viable argument, as far as I can tell, and Fox has countered all his options and worked up a few own that Kirby haven't done anything against.

Edit:

Candy Pop makes Kirby invincible.

He can spam attacks at ease with that.
Also, Magic Kirby's Roulette stops time as well during usage.

For how long is he invinvible? Which attacks will be spammed? Will fox be able to avoid those until candy pop wears off? Time stop during usage is banned.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Also, conclusions made earlier which have been established in the thread should be summarized like "game freeze is banned", "Sonic can stay super forever/this ammount of time" etc. to make it easier for more people to participate and reduce the ammount of useless questions.

I agree. I can't figure out whether the Pokedex (and similar things like Samus' logs) are allowed to be cited in a fight (they're in the game, but don't follow what you see). I have no clue what everyone decided.

Things like that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

iirc, Crash doesn't deal AMAZING damage towards stronger enemies. It will KO all weaker enemies, but mini-bosses don't suffer ZOMG, DAMAGE from it. Of course, the damage depends on which mini-boss you face.

No, that's of coarse true but if Kirby can do it about 3 times... I think he could litterally Crash the Arwing.

Though it all depends on how many times Kirby can use his abilities. He had reserve abilities in some game right? How many can he have?

Otherwise, Fox could still fight without his Arwing. Dunno if he can just pull out a Landmaster out of nowhere, but I'm thinking that would be more effective against a small enemy as Kirby. He'll have less difficulty in locating Kirby.

But I guess it could also be a draw. Bombs and Crash kinda work the same way, and both can kill each other pretty easily. I dunno who should win here. Really could go either way.

 

[Alphatron]

I'd give it to Kirby. If he's allowed to use Dragoon, then it should help as it clocks in over 120 mph if I remember correctly. There's also the thing about his end game weapons being able to take on cosmic entities like Nightmare and Dark Matter. No reason they wouldn't be able to scratch a ship.

Normally, the arwing would indeed fly a bit fast for Kirby. But according to Ocarina of Time, Link can keep up with arwings easily and Link isn't all that fast...

 

[Rkey]

Normally, the arwing would indeed fly a bit fast for Kirby. But according to Ocarina of Time, Link can keep up with arwings easily and Link isn't all that fast...

You should link that video since it's kind of lol xD Also, most people wont understand this.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dragoon is from the Kirby racing game right? Dunno if we can count that as cannon. Though it, and DK: Barrel Blast could be allowed so... Cause... well, there's nothing which keeps it from not being cannon really.

 

[PowerBomb]

Remember, Kirby is dealing large damage to bosses relative to his size. What about an Arwing?

 

[IsmaR]

Question, why isn't Kirby getting access to his star ship/chariot from SuperStar/SSU if Fox gets his Arwing?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Kirby could apperantly take down the Halberd. Did MetaKnight win or lose to Fox? There was a MetaKnight vs a StarFox character match up... But a Arwing is more mobile than the Halberd anyway, so it's not really comparable.

 

[Alphatron]

You should link that video since it's kind of lol xD Also, most people wont understand this.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4800434832704441405#

Youtube is down so this will have to do.

 

[justaway12]

I'll try to find something to figure out how much power they have, but how would we figure that out? And how long do these matchups last, anyway? Still, unleashed and chronicles show that they have immense energy (possibly infinite, unless tampered with).

What matches? Super Sonic's matces in this thread or in his game?

One thing to look at are the conditions SS is fighting in. In the fights where he loses a ring per second, he's in extreme conditions, space or being forced to fly so he won't drown. That could very well be why he has a ring count, since it would take more energy to keep sonic safe in those extreme conditions. However, we're on a nuetral battlefield here, meaning SS doesnt even have to fly for most people. Look at my sonic unleashed SS time caclculation below, and he'd be able to go longer than that because he isnt flying here, unlike in unleashed.

In Sonic Advance, (I think it was that game), they show Sonic, the final stage is space, but he isn't Super, it shows that he could be okay in Space, and IIRC, Sonic was fighting in the earths crust, that would be extremly hot.

Got something: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HyzdULKcO0

Sonic advance ending. Sonic fights eggman's robot, and wins. The player had 15 rings left at the end of the fight, so if the ring count was a true limit, sonic shouldve reverted to normal in 15 seconds. But, a few days later (few is around three IMO, but definitely more than one) he comes down, and he's STILL super sonic. Proves that the ring count is just so the boss isn't too easy. That Should give an idea of how much energy the emeralds have, and sonic still didnt revert back even then. How long do these matches last anyway? Having to stall for a day (or more) should be a win for sonic.

BTW, the rings he gets mid fight are coming from eggman's little robot thing he shoots out. Sonic destroys it, and he gets rings. The rings arent just floating around in space.

OR it's a cutscene and they don't want to spoil it. If a game has a time limit and you get there with 1 second to spare, and a cutscene follows just shortly after, nothing will happen in that cutscene that kills everyone or something or alternitavely, if you have plenty of time to spare, the cutscene could show that character appearing just in the nick of time.

One more thing. In unleashed, (if my no ring limit fails, this is another option) sonic loses ONE ring per 10 seconds in the wii/PS2 version. With his 999 ring max, this means 9990 seconds of invincibility. Converting to hours....Sonic can stay super for 2 hours, 46 minutes and 30 seconds. That has to be some MAJOR stalling if you try to outstall super sonic...that should be a win for sonic. This is assuming his ring max is 999, which it is not, it's currently undefined. (undefined super sonic time?)

Italics from kewkky's post since i can't distinguish minutes from seconds lolz.

What about Ike and Kirby xD
People who could have stalled him for 16 minutes or whatever, could probably do the same for 2 hours.

I think I completly missed yor post before.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

You are doing a great job with this thread WhatIsRaizen? : )

Thanks.

I agree. I can't figure out whether the Pokedex (and similar things like Samus' logs) are allowed to be cited in a fight (they're in the game, but don't follow what you see). I have no clue what everyone decided.

Things like that.

Yeah, I guess I should explain what's not allowed and why in the OP.

 

[DoonKoon]

Who's Ship was Gray Fox?

 

[DoonKoon]

and I think Falco lost to Metaknight.

Did you guys forget that Toon Link has a ship that could attack with canons?

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Allowed

All weapons (swords, lances, axes, guns, knifes, bombs, rods).

All equipment (radars, sensers, armor & shield, any sort of clothing).

All items/food (berries, pokeballs, triforce, potions, collection items, power-ups).

All Vehicles (space ships, cars, machines, sea ships).

Wishing (whether with the use of a item or not, wishing is allowed).

TMs (Pokemons are able to obtain TMs by themselves, thus allowed them).

Disallowed/Banned

Back-up (other characters in the same series group [whether good or bad, a part of the gameplay or not] are disallowed to aid said smash character, but there are some exception to this rule; the exceptions are Navi, Pokemon Trainer's pokemons, Gods & Goddesses, and live like power-ups).

Game hacks (hacks are banned for obvious reasons).

Game freeze (as like hacks, game freeze is banned).

National Pokedex (If I allow Pokedex, problems will start to arise, a example of this may be: Charizard has said to breath Fire that is enough to melt rocks. Which of course makes no sense considering fire attacks are not very effective against Rock.)

Game mechanics (If something is described about a certain character in his or her game that isn't ridiculous [like Pokedex entries], then it is a true fact about said character. If something as stupid as, let's say, Link shoots an arrow towards the sun, the arrow then returns as a fire arrow, this becomes a game mechanic because nothing was said that describes so.)

Restrictions

Wishing to win (while wishing is allowed, wishing to win is simply banned).

Super Sonic (Sonic can stay super for 2 hours, 46 minutes and 30 seconds, it's explained why in this post).


I'm going to add this to the front page, hope this stops some questions from arising. I'll add/edit more, the more we move along.

 

[jiovanni007]

So I've been reading about the Kirby match-up and no one has mentioned that in his games Kirby has to get hit 6 time before he dies. They also can't be rapid fire machine gun its either since he gains a period of invulnerability directly afterward that outlasts the hitstun that he suffers.

 

[YesNoMaybeSo]

Navi's allowed? W00h.