Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[justaway12]

@Brouser: He didn't lose any match. I'm not ignoring you, I just can't be bothered replying yet.
I'm not much of a Sonic expert anyway.

Here is something for you anyway, was he only shown to be like that in that one game? Chaos Emeralds should take energy, besides, it contridicts other games... I'm tired, I'll think tommorow.

@Ekul: Bowser is invincible, bowser can stop time. etc.

 

[missingnomaster]

@Mariobrouser: I don't have an argument against it.

 

[Ekul]

@Brouser: He didn't lose any match.

@Ekul: Bowser is invincible, bowser can stop time. etc.

Not instantaneously on either count. Besides, does Bowser's invincibility protect him from being knocked backwards?

 

[justaway12]

Toon link doesn't put is mask on instantly, it doesn't need to be instant anyway, unless Yink can put on his mask and make his way to Bowser in under 1 second, Bowser wins.

And invincibilty mean he can't get hurt.

 

[Ekul]

Okay then, what about the Ocarina of time? Can't he just travel back in time once Bowser has turned invincible until conditions are favorable to him?

And even if he dies, he has fairies in bottles to revive him, up to six of them

 

[missingnomaster]

When has Link used the Ocarina to travel back in time?

I don't think time travel was allowed anyways. Though it can be stopped, slowed, or sped up if a character can do so.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well yes, it takes a little while to totally KO Young Link... But what can Young Link do to prevent Bowser from becomming invincible? The Ocarina of Time is an option maybe yeah, but Bowser would become invincible anyways. Its just uselessly stalling the match out without benefits on both sides... =/

EDIT: Btw, Majora's Mask is a strange game. I really dislike playing it... There's just so many things weird about it. Even though Wind Waker is also pretty weird, it still feels more like a Zelda game to me. O.o

 

[Samochan]

Okay then, what about the Ocarina of time? Can't he just travel back in time once Bowser has turned invincible until conditions are favorable to him?

And even if he dies, he has fairies in bottles to revive him, up to six of them

He'd travel back to the dawn of first day, but it's doubtful he could turn the conditions favorable to him if he can't do it in the first place. He'd just waste his energy, magic and fairies. :/

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

New MU:

Vs.

Current Match-Up:
THE KING OF EVIL Vs. THE SPACE WOLF

Ganondorf Vs. Wolf

Vs.

Round 4, Match 4.

Who will win? YOU decide!

Overall Results

Wins +4:



Wins +3:

, ,

Wins +2:

, , , , :mewtwo:, ,

Wins +1:

, , ,

Neutral:

, , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Loss -1:



Loss -2:

, , , , ichu:, ,

Loss -3:

,

Loss -4:

,

 

[Ekul]

When has Link used the Ocarina to travel back in time?

I don't think time travel was allowed anyways. Though it can be stopped, slowed, or sped up if a character can do so.

In Majora's Mask he can travel back up to three days. That just seems like a double standard, though. Characters can stop time all they like but they aren't allowed to travel through it? It's also not a substantial amount of time either- just long enough to get the edge.

EDIT: The space animals really have nothing on Ganondorf. He's invincible and has ranged magic attacks. This is either a win or a stalemate.

 

[missingnomaster]

what purpose does time travel serve anyway? It's like the most useless form of stalling.

Ganondorf will find a way to take Wolf down.

 

[BSP]

what purpose does time travel serve anyway? It's like the most useless form of stalling.

Ganondorf will find a way to take Wolf down.

Doesnt matter if he doesn't, wolf cant hurt ganon right?

@ Justaway

I guess it does contradict (i can only think of two games with no ring limit, unleashed and the dark brotherhood), but still, it shows that sonic can maintain his super form without a ring count going. It's in a game, so i think he should get it.

 

[REL38]

In Majora's Mask he can travel back up to three days. That just seems like a double standard, though. Characters can stop time all they like but they aren't allowed to travel through it? It's also not a substantial amount of time either- just long enough to get the edge.

So he travels back in time to get himself into the exact same position he's in now.

Bowser with the Star Rod.

Time Travel does next to nothing.


@Mariobrouser

Judging off of what you've said, the only things that hurt Sonic are drowning, very heavy impacts and Chaos induced enemies.

To me, it just seems more like the typical continuity flaws found in a lot of characters.

Can't say I completely agree with what you're proposing.

 

[justaway12]

@Brouser:That really shouldn't count, IMO, why did the Chaos Emeralds finally decide to cut him a break? It gives no explanation and decides to break other games canon for that.

I don't think it will really matter since I don't think anyone can stall him out other than Kirby and others but I need to find some things about them first.

 

[BSP]

So he travels back in time to get himself into the exact same position he's in now.

Bowser with the Star Rod.

Time Travel does next to nothing.


@Mariobrouser

Judging off of what you've said, the only things that hurt Sonic are drowning, very heavy impacts and Chaos induced enemies.

To me, it just seems more like the typical continuity flaws found in a lot of characters.

Can't say I completely agree with what you're proposing.

Actually, if he's hyper sonic, he can't drown either

I don't know which impact you're talking about (assuming the knuckles thing is void).

So what don't you agree with? I might be able to explain/fix it.

If sonic gets the no ring count invincibility, his match with Ike would be a draw. Would he still have to vs. MK? MK would have to run away then, meaning he'd lose. Point is it would make a difference.

@Justaway

ok. I still think the ring count is just to make sure the game isn't too easy, seeing as the emeralds are a limitless source of energy. I mentioned how it would make a little difference above.

Any other opinions?

Even sonic news network says it:

The rings are only used as a gameplay mechanic to limit how long the form can last.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Can Wolf hurt Ganon? No. Can Ganon hurt Wolf? Yes.

Next MU.

 

[YesNoMaybeSo]

Ganon wins obvsly

 

[justaway12]

@Justaway

ok. I still think the ring count is just to make sure the game isn't too easy, seeing as the emeralds are a limitless source of energy. I mentioned how it would make a little difference above.

Any other opinions?

Even sonic news network says it:

The rings are only used as a gameplay mechanic to limit how long the form can last.

It gives him unlimited energy, maybe his body can't handle it, maybe they are only allowed to stay for a certain time, maybe they're cheap and are taking Sonics money for a profit.
There could be a lot of explanations.

If they have unlimited power, why do they serve the master emerald?

What's the Sonic News Network?

EDIT: If they are a limitless source of energy, how does Eggman steal it in Unleashed?

 

[BSP]

It gives him unlimited energy, maybe his body can't handle it, maybe they are only allowed to stay for a certain time, maybe they're cheap and are taking Sonics money for a profit.
There could be a lot of explanations.

If they have unlimited power, why do they serve the master emerald?

What's the Sonic News Network?

EDIT: If they are a limitless source of energy, how does Eggman steal it in Unleashed?

The Sonic News Network is a/the (?) sonic wiki.

His body not being able to handle the energy...I think Unleashed and The Dark Brotherhood prove that he can handle it, seeing that if you simply wait, nothing negative will happen to sonic. (And if he doesn't get hit in unleashed, he could just maintain the form, but i dont know what happens if chip/gaia colossus dies, i dont have that version.)

I dont really know why they serve the master emerald. I think the master emerald's purpose is just to be a controller of the energy just in case it is used for evil. But how is the chaos emerald's serving relevant?


Ah, you got me there. Guess I should say immense power instead of limitless, my bad. However, in these matches, no one has eggman's machine, so they can't drain the emerald's power. I dont think there is any other event in which the emeralds "run out" of power.

never mind, lost track of time.

 

[justaway12]

If they have unlimited power, how could Eggman steal the powers in Unleased?

I'm saying that fact that he has coins means he can't Unleashed and Dark brotherhood go against most other Sonic games.

 

[REL38]

Actually, if he's hyper sonic, he can't drown either

I don't know which impact you're talking about (assuming the knuckles thing is void).

So what don't you agree with? I might be able to explain/fix it.

If sonic gets the no ring count invincibility, his match with Ike would be a draw. Would he still have to vs. MK? MK would have to run away then, meaning he'd lose. Point is it would make a difference.

Any other opinions?

Even sonic news network says it:

The rings are only used as a gameplay mechanic to limit how long the form can last.

I meant heavy impacts in general.

You used the health bar example which decreased from each hit taken from w/e
I'd imagine the hits were very heavy.
Sonic loses rings in Sonic Adventure 2 in the final battle from heavy hits if I'm not mistaken.
You also said he'd take damage from falling which would translate into a heavy hit.

That's what I meant by it.

Drowning was just another example I drew from what you said.
Not like there's a giant lake in the middle
Exactly what's the difference between Hyper and Super?

What's this Sonic News Network? nvm

 

[missingnomaster]

Hyper Sonic is supposedly faster than Super Sonic.
Hyper Sonic has enough flashing lights to almost give you a seizure.
Hyper Sonic doesn't drown.
Hyper Sonic has a move that accelerates him to high speeds instantly, and killed all enemies on screen.

 

[BSP]

I meant heavy impacts in general.

You used the health bar example which decreased from each hit taken from w/e
I'd imagine the hits were very heavy.
Sonic loses rings in Sonic Adventure 2 in the final battle from heavy hits if I'm not mistaken.
You also said he'd take damage from falling which would translate into a heavy hit.

That's what I meant by it.

Drowning was just another example I drew from what you said.
Not like there's a giant lake in the middle
Exactly what's the difference between Hyper and Super?

What's this Sonic News Network? nvm

In sonic unleashed, he doesn't get damaged from the force of the hit, it's because Dark Gaia is under the influence of chaos power, which is why it can hurt him. Other heavy impacts have been shown to stun him at most, not hurt. He doesnt lose rings in SA2 in the final battle. When i said falling, i meant bottomless pit in the 2-d sonic games, but he can fly here so that doesnt matter.

Hyper has all the abilities of super, in addition to breathing underwater, faster speed, and having a hyper flash, which kills all minor enemies in one hit and accelerates him to max speed instantly.

@Justaway

I said you were right, we should say immense power instead of limitless. But like i said, there have been no other instances of the emeralds running out of power, and none of the characters here can drain them anyway.

 

[missingnomaster]

Didn't Chaos drain all of the negative energy from the Chaos Emeralds once?

Not that it matters here, but...

 

[BSP]

Didn't Chaos drain all of the negative energy from the Chaos Emeralds once?

Not that it matters here, but...

Yes, but sonic still used them right there, showing that they still had power left. But like you said, it doesn't really matter.

IDK, it just seems like the ring count is a game mechanic. Sonic has shown that he doesn't constantly need rings to maintain or transform into his super form, and no one here is capable of draining the emeralds of their powers.

BTW, ganon wins, no question.

 

[REL38]

Yes, but sonic still used them right there, showing that they still had power left. But like you said, it doesn't really matter.

IDK, it just seems like the ring count is a game mechanic. Sonic has shown that he doesn't constantly need rings to maintain or transform into his super form, and no one here is capable of draining the emeralds of their powers.

But didn't the game use the typical, "we believe there's still hope!" card?
I remember everyone gathering around and the emeralds gained back their juice.

Doesn't this add to them having limited default power?

 

[warpd]

I thought Kirby had 1HKO moves?

 

[missingnomaster]

I thought Kirby had 1HKO moves?

Cook wouldn't work on foes much too large to fit in the pot, Crash/Mike simply do a lot of damage, and Magic's OHKO takes too long since you have to do the roulette wheel.

 

[BSP]

But didn't the game use the typical, "we believe there's still hope!" card?
I remember everyone gathering around and the emeralds gained back their juice.

Doesn't this add to them having limited default power?

Hmm, im not too sure..But I know that chaos only drained the negative power of the emeralds, meaning they still had some juice left.

But my point is that someone or something has to drain the emeralds to weaken them, and unless someone does that/ tampers with them, they work just fine. No one in this thread is capable of performing said action, so I think it's pretty irrelevant. If you can find sonic or anyone transforming, and then just happening to revert to normal because the emeralds run out of juice, then it would be relevant.

I could even use ring limited super sonic for this. If you keep collecting rings, the chaos emeralds wouldnt run out of energy. Non ring limited super sonic: If sonic doesn't get hit, he didn't show any problems of maintaining his super form.

 

[Rkey]

Why the heck would Ganon win mariobrouser? Doesn't Wolf have his ship?

You guys aren't really friendly to people who just joined, I think you should type your arguments instead of going for unspoken traditions in the thread. Even though you can do that to, doing only that shuts people out.

What exactly does Ganon wield, and what does Wolf wield? If Ganon is like he is in the games, is there also a kidnapped Zelda to help him out?

"He's invincible and has ranged magic attacks."

If wolf has his arwing, there will be damage, unless you are referring to the Master Sword Syndrome or what to call it. How powrful is that one though, have we been given any proof of that in game? Nothing I can remember, except you don't need the master sword in the first Zelda game, just the silver arrows.

 

[Diddy Kong]

How exactly is Ganondorf going to reach Wolf? Link, who isnt exactly a speedster, has no trouble avoiding Ganon's magic. This just seems like a draw to me. Unless there's a fuel limit on Wolf's Wolfen, then he needs to fight on land, where Ganondorf would simply win. It'll take some time, but eventually Ganondorf should win.

EDIT:

You guys aren't really friendly to people who just joined, I think you should type your arguments instead of going for unspoken traditions in the thread. Even though you can do that to, doing only that shuts people out.

I agree with this. We should be more open to new people.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

How is Ganon going to beat Wolf? Well, I can think of multiple ways.

1.) Wait till the Wolfen runs out of fuel.

2.) Possess Wolf as he did Zelda in this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgP9LctP8mg&feature=related (3:25)

 

[BSP]

Why the heck would Ganon win mariobrouser? Doesn't Wolf have his ship?

You guys aren't really friendly to people who just joined, I think you should type your arguments instead of going for unspoken traditions in the thread. Even though you can do that to, doing only that shuts people out.

What exactly does Ganon wield, and what does Wolf wield? If Ganon is like he is in the games, is there also a kidnapped Zelda to help him out?

"He's invincible and has ranged magic attacks."

If wolf has his arwing, there will be damage, unless you are referring to the Master Sword Syndrome or what to call it. How powrful is that one though, have we been given any proof of that in game? Nothing I can remember, except you don't need the master sword in the first Zelda game, just the silver arrows.

Sorry, didn't mean to be exclusive.

I don't think Wolf has any means of hurting ganondorf (can't ganon heal himself too?), therefore he'd have to run/stall the whole match. This is like sonic vs. ike. Sonic is way too fast for ike to catch, but since sonic can't actually hurt ike, he lost the match. Correct me if I'm wrong, im no ganon expert.

Still going for no ring count super sonic btw. The emeralds can't be drained in these matchups, and they have not been shown to run out unless someone specifically drained them. He has also shown that he doesn't need to continue to collect rings to maintain his super form or start it.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Alright then, new MU.

Vs.

Current Match-Up:
THE SUPER BROTHER Vs. THE LONE SOLDIER

Mario Vs. Snake

Vs.

Round 4, Match 5.

Who will win? YOU decide!

Overall Results

Wins +4:

,

Wins +3:

,

Wins +2:

, , , :mewtwo:, ,

Wins +1:

, , , ,

Neutral:

, , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Loss -1:



Loss -2:

, , , , ichu:, ,

Loss -3:

,

Loss -4:

,

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dunno, Samus almost got killed by the Mega Mushroom. Snake has worse defensive options than Samus, therefore it's likely a OHKO on Snake. Mega Mario is invincible, thus even if Snake where to nuke Mario he'd survive.

 

[justaway12]

OMGOMGOMOGMOGM THAT'S NSMBW MARIO *sqeee* <3

Yeah, Mario wins, he can Super Jump on Snake, takes a looooong time to die, can stop time, etc.


@Mariobrouser:Sorry, didn't read the edit >.<

Anyway, if they're not infinate, won't they have to have a limit? They cold use the coins to fuel their power up

 

[Samochan]

First starman, then stopwatch, then go into rampage with mega mushroom.

= dead snake.

 

[Lovely]

I thought Kirby had 1HKO moves?

That would depend on who he's fighting. ;p

Cook wouldn't work on foes much too large to fit in the pot, Crash/Mike simply do a lot of damage, and Magic's OHKO takes too long since you have to do the roulette wheel.

Kirby Squeak Squad Magic Roulette goes very fast, all you have to do is press a button and it will instantly activate.

I find something odd on the Sonic vs Kirby debate that Sonic won because the rest of the time Kirby would be stalling. When Sonic runs out of rings from Super Sonic, Kirby can just switch to another Ability and attack him depending on how far or close Sonic is, if Sonic is close he would need Needle, Spark, Freeze, Fireball/Burning Kirby, (Fire Kirby also does Burning attack, but Burning Kirby is also another hat, same with Ice Kirby using Blizzard barrier), or Bomb. If Sonic's far Kirby can use Laser, Plasma, (hope Sonic doesn't face this), UFO. Sonic can't use Time Stop because he doesn't have enough rings to use it because he'll be at zero so he'll have to find more, some know where I'm getting at. XD

Kirby vs Mario confuses me also, on the first post it says Kirby don't have enough options to beat Mario, so I'll just look at the pages where the debate was.

Current debate, I'll get with that. :3

 

[Joeadok]

Speaking of Kirby, doesn't he get most of his powers from enemies, as in back up? Just asking, I'm no Kirby expert.

 

[Lovely]

Most of the time he can just eat his enemies for power, Kirby can also eat the projectiles, pieces of anything that has an element or that require skill, (like a sword, fireball, ninja knife, a piece of screw, ice shard, a piece of stone, etc). In games like Kirby Squeak Squad he's able to hold at least five objects or abilities in his stomach. In Kirby Super Star in Milkyway Wishes he's able to swap to different abilities at his own will.